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Author Topic: Obyte: Totally new consensus algorithm + private untraceable payments  (Read 1161376 times)
jbreher
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April 15, 2019, 05:12:26 PM
 #21801

Funny choice of words. In what way does the listing status on any particular exchange cause a chain to be -- and I quote your careless misrepresentation -- "a scam"?
Sorry about that, English is not my mother tongue, so I misunderstood the meanings of fraud and scam. I admited the misusage, and already corrected my post above, turned scam into fraud, as the article used. Thanks for pointing this out so fast.

Funny choice of words. In what way does the listing status on any particular exchange cause a chain to be -- and I quote your careless misrepresentation -- "a fraud"?

Incidentally, for a non-native speaker, your English is pretty good. With the possible exception of not understanding the words 'scam' and 'fraud'.

Anyone with a campaign ad in their signature -- for an organization with which they are not otherwise affiliated -- is automatically deducted credibility points.

I've been convicted of heresy. Convicted by a mere known extortionist. Read my Trust for details.
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tarmo888
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April 15, 2019, 05:27:07 PM
 #21802

Funny choice of words. In what way does the listing status on any particular exchange cause a chain to be -- and I quote your careless misrepresentation -- "a scam"?
Sorry about that, English is not my mother tongue, so I misunderstood the meanings of fraud and scam. I admited the misusage, and already corrected my post above, turned scam into fraud, as the article used. Thanks for pointing this out so fast.

Funny choice of words. In what way does the listing status on any particular exchange cause a chain to be -- and I quote your careless misrepresentation -- "a fraud"?

Incidentally, for a non-native speaker, your English is pretty good. With the possible exception of not understanding the words 'scam' and 'fraud'.

Clearly anyone who uses "mother tongue" instead of "first language" is not a native English speaker. Other hints are "admited", "misusage" and "as the article used". Probably both are you are not native English speakers.
diyhockey
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April 15, 2019, 10:23:19 PM
 #21803

Bitcoin SV has ended as a fraud. Binance, delisted Bitcoin SV, and other exchanges will do it in coming hours, days, or weeks.
https://www.coindesk.com/binance-delists-bitcoin-sv-ceo-calls-craig-wright-a-fraud
Recently, we saw the Obyte Cash, a forked from Obyte, so my question for myself and for you is:
Which ending has waited for Obyte Cash? Personally, I don't see reason to succeed for Obyte Cash.
what relation has Bitcoin SV to Obyte Cash? There are examples of successful and unsuccessful forks on the market. There are examples of successful forks and dead originals. If not to assume that almost all coins to some extent fork of Bitcoin.
tonych
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April 16, 2019, 12:43:56 PM
Merited by LoyceV (1)
 #21804

Not as fast as we want, but we are continuing the decentralization of witnesses.

 Fabien Marino is the second independent witness candidate.  He is known for his obyte.js library, obyte.io explorer, busy.org, steemconnect.com, and DrugWars game (top app on https://www.stateofthedapps.com/rankings) which recently issued a token on Obyte.

Read the full announcement https://medium.com/obyte/second-independent-witness-candidate-fabien-marino-d4e8dccadee.

The decision about changing your witness list is up to you, see the instructions in the article.



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April 17, 2019, 06:13:00 AM
 #21805

Decentralized witness list, that is very strange term for me, honestly. Fabio Mariano is the second witness, after Rogier Eijkelhof, whom is the first.
The most favorite feature of Obyte that caught his attention to the Obyte project is the DAG. Moreover, from what I read in the article, the Witness lists are somehow substitutes of Trusted Nodes, right? Maybe Witness List has more advantages than Trusted node. Do I get the basic thing relates to Witness list in the right way?

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April 19, 2019, 06:32:56 PM
 #21806

anyone want to attest an address for me? ill pay you  Grin
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April 20, 2019, 01:00:43 AM
 #21807

Bitcoin SV has ended as a fraud. Binance, delisted Bitcoin SV, and other exchanges will do it in coming hours, days, or weeks.
https://www.coindesk.com/binance-delists-bitcoin-sv-ceo-calls-craig-wright-a-fraud
Recently, we saw the Obyte Cash, a forked from Obyte, so my question for myself and for you is:
Which ending has waited for Obyte Cash? Personally, I don't see reason to succeed for Obyte Cash.
what relation has Bitcoin SV to Obyte Cash? There are examples of successful and unsuccessful forks on the market. There are examples of successful forks and dead originals. If not to assume that almost all coins to some extent fork of Bitcoin.

It's all about tribalism. OGs are resentful to those that forked away. So basically everyone assumes that the larger tribe wins. In the case of Ethereum and Classic, the community of Ethereum is bigger. With Bitcoin, the bigger one is with the segwit update. It's a popularity contest, if you will.

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tonych
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April 20, 2019, 12:25:38 PM
 #21808

Obyte version 2.7.0 released, some highlights:

Added ability to create and sign classic (prosaic, not smart) contracts. The contracts are optionally linked to real-name attested identities, like the classic contracts. Contract texts are saved privately in the wallets of the parties, their hashes are signed by both parties and posted to the DAG.

Full story https://medium.com/obyte/introducing-prosaic-contracts-5d3564638a20



Now it is possible to quickly search and sort the lists bots and contacts, which have grown too large lately:



Added an option to spend unconfirmed funds received from third parties, previously only unconfirmed change could be spent.  It is off by default.



On iPhone X and other top-notchy iPhones, the app now occupies the entire screen




Full list of updates:

* Updated branding from Byteball to Obyte
* Added ability to create and sign classic (prosaic, not smart) contracts.  The contracts are optionally linked to real-name attested identities, like the classic contracts. Contract texts are saved privately in the wallets of the parties, their hashes are signed by both parties and posted to the DAG.
* Added ability to specify a list of trusted real name attestors.  Received private profiles attested by trusted or untrusted attestors are visually indicated as such.
* Added ability to quickly search and sort contacts and bots
* Added an option to mute push notifications for individual correspondents (bots).
* Added an option to spend unconfirmed funds received from third parties, previously only unconfirmed change could be spent
* Human readable display of contracts now displays the peer's name rather than just "peer".  It matters most in contracts with more than one peer, such as ORider.
* On smart contract composition pages, added more helpful placeholders and links to instructions on wiki
* When binding a condition to a payment, allowed to set conditions where oracle-posted data is more or less than the specified value, previously only exact equality was supported
* Sign-a-message feature now allows to sign with any address which is a member of the wallet, not just the last address
* Lists of addresses in multisig wallets are now synced among cosigner devices, which helps to automatically recover from loss of sync
* Extended the byteball: (obyte:) URI protocol to allow posting data (data feeds, attestations, polls, ...) by clicking a link on a website
* Added ability to claim several assets stored on a single textcoin address
* On iPhone X and other top-notchy iPhones, the app now occupies the entire screen
* Updated initial sync, full wallets no longer require large amounts of memory (and no longer run out of memory) when starting the initial sync or when syncing after a long period of being offline.
* The wallet now shows dollar value of some assets traded on the Exchange Bot, such as Future token
* Fixed a bug in Windows wallets which prevented it from opening byteball: links on websites.
* Fixed a bug that prevented multi-sig wallets from signing transactions in private currencies (such as blackbytes)
* Fixed a bug that caused some Android wallets to hang when restoring from backup
* Fixed a bug that crashed the wallet when requesting a custom asset payment with byteball: link and not having that particular asset in currently selected wallet
* Fixed a bug that prevented sign-a-message feature from working in multisig wallets
* Latest Tor Browser with Tor 0.3.5.x broke the socks5 passwordless handshake https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/ticket/29175, now it is fixed
* Fixed a bug that sometimes caused Android 4.4 devices to crash when trying to restore from full backup
* New languages: Srpski, Filipino, Vietnamese, Yoruba
* Multiple minor bugfixes and improvements


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layer1gfx
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April 20, 2019, 01:40:00 PM
 #21809

Bitcoin SV has ended as a fraud. Binance, delisted Bitcoin SV, and other exchanges will do it in coming hours, days, or weeks.
https://www.coindesk.com/binance-delists-bitcoin-sv-ceo-calls-craig-wright-a-fraud
Recently, we saw the Obyte Cash, a forked from Obyte, so my question for myself and for you is:
Which ending has waited for Obyte Cash? Personally, I don't see reason to succeed for Obyte Cash.
what relation has Bitcoin SV to Obyte Cash? There are examples of successful and unsuccessful forks on the market. There are examples of successful forks and dead originals. If not to assume that almost all coins to some extent fork of Bitcoin.

It's all about tribalism. OGs are resentful to those that forked away. So basically everyone assumes that the larger tribe wins. In the case of Ethereum and Classic, the community of Ethereum is bigger. With Bitcoin, the bigger one is with the segwit update. It's a popularity contest, if you will.
smells like evolution to me. survival of the fittest and most popular. if in doubt go alpha. i think for any cryptocurrency to gain some traction it needs followers, users, devs, usecases etc. to make sense in the cryptoworld.
forks and knives can't be avoided. but st. toshi had this in mind when releasing the code "open source".
the only true coin is bitcoin Cheesy


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StandingTall
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April 21, 2019, 04:43:19 PM
Last edit: April 21, 2019, 05:30:39 PM by StandingTall
 #21810

Obyte version 2.7.0 released, some highlights:

Added ability to create and sign classic (prosaic, not smart) contracts.


It sounds cool but it's not enforceable not only on DAG but in reality too. There's no law that recognizes "real ID verification" on Obyte and digital cryptographic signatures as equivalent to handwritten signature on paper. As long as the law does not change this feature is just a toy with no real world application.

Funny thing: how can anyone be sure that anything signed on Obyte platform (including signatures from real world verified IDs) have been performed by the person that owns the ID? It may well be my girlfriend that took to my laptop when I was in a bathroom and forgot to lock the screen with Obyte wallet left open (password is still optional in Obyte wallet, right? Ooops.) That's the problem with digital signatures. Handwritten signature is oldschool but at least nobody can do it for me.

Otherwise it would have already been implemented in different ways in many industries. But it didn't. Human notaries are fine and will be for a very long time.

Or how about dead people? Who will terminate their verified ID's on Obyte when they die? Nobody? So anyone who has password and a wallet of a dead person can still sign anything as if that person is still alive?

How about lost/stolen/hacked wallets? How anybody can terminate their own verified ID on Obyte when somebody looses password/wallet/ or is hacked etc.? Will Obyte have some kind of customer service 24/7 hotline to terminate compromised IDs?


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April 21, 2019, 07:21:59 PM
 #21811

this coins is the best example that tech does not mean success. its really sad that obyte is not used more.
but its too good to be pump.  Grin

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April 21, 2019, 11:24:05 PM
 #21812

Obyte version 2.7.0 released, some highlights:

Added ability to create and sign classic (prosaic, not smart) contracts.


It sounds cool but it's not enforceable not only on DAG but in reality too. There's no law that recognizes "real ID verification" on Obyte and digital cryptographic signatures as equivalent to handwritten signature on paper. As long as the law does not change this feature is just a toy with no real world application.

Funny thing: how can anyone be sure that anything signed on Obyte platform (including signatures from real world verified IDs) have been performed by the person that owns the ID? It may well be my girlfriend that took to my laptop when I was in a bathroom and forgot to lock the screen with Obyte wallet left open (password is still optional in Obyte wallet, right? Ooops.) That's the problem with digital signatures. Handwritten signature is oldschool but at least nobody can do it for me.

Otherwise it would have already been implemented in different ways in many industries. But it didn't. Human notaries are fine and will be for a very long time.

Or how about dead people? Who will terminate their verified ID's on Obyte when they die? Nobody? So anyone who has password and a wallet of a dead person can still sign anything as if that person is still alive?

How about lost/stolen/hacked wallets? How anybody can terminate their own verified ID on Obyte when somebody looses password/wallet/ or is hacked etc.? Will Obyte have some kind of customer service 24/7 hotline to terminate compromised IDs?

When you wrote this post, did it cross your mind that maybe you don't know what you are talking about? Are you a lawyer and if you are, in what country?
In your reality, how do you think the laws work? Do you think that there needs to be a law for every single application and every law will tell that signatures from list of apps are now recognized?

And what kind of backward country do you live where only handwritten signatures on paper are legally binding? Most of the world accepts digital signatures already for over 10 years.
In US, it's called ESIGN Act and even Obyte announcement says that prosaic contracts satisfy all 4 requirements of “advanced electronic signature” under Article 26 of eIDAS in EU. There is no special law needed specially for Obyte. Just ask your lawyer, what are the limitations and under which conditions digital signatures can be used in your country.

Here is another funny thing: have you ever heard of identity theft and forgery? Sure, nobody is going to sue you when you scam somebody for only $50, but do it long enough so the total amount reaches into thousands and law enforcement will start to have interest in you. Handwritten signatures are easier to forge than digital ones.

Apparently, you haven't even used DocuSign, which is been used in many industries.
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Today at 06:12:18 AM
 #21813

This works until it doesn't. And then not so funny things happen:

Quote
US Court Rejects DocuSign E-Signatures as method to provide Digital Authorization

An important point is that when the attorney was asked to prove that the e-signature belonged to the legitimate signer, it was shown that it was not possible because the DocuSign e-signature is generated by just a ‘click to sign’ button. There is no guarantee who clicks on the button and the declared name by itself (the area where the signer enters their name) is just a placeholder that can be filled by anybody.

https://www.cryptomathic.com/news-events/blog/us-court-rejects-docusign-e-signatures-as-method-to-provide-digital-authorization

See? The judge apparently is so ignorant as me. Or is this e-signing not so sure as you might think.

With Obyte wallet where the password is not mandatory it's just laughable.

If you read the article carefully you will find that in EU for e-signature to be valid and not dismissed by court:

Quote
"users must be positively identified and certified as being the individual they claim to be before they can issue an e-signature above the simple electronic signature level."

There's no certification process of validity in Obyte so claiming that:

Quote
"even Obyte announcement says that prosaic contracts satisfy all 4 requirements of “advanced electronic signature” under Article 26 of eIDAS in EU"

is equally laughable.

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Today at 06:57:37 AM
 #21814

Why did you change your name? Byteball sounds a lot cooler than OByte. I remember that there was an airdrop for first users of byteball wallet or free distribution,have to check my old pc.

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Today at 10:02:52 AM
 #21815


Added ability to create and sign classic (prosaic, not smart) contracts.

Full story https://medium.com/obyte/introducing-prosaic-contracts-5d3564638a20


This should be the News Of The Day in the whole crypto-space, IMHO - but alas it seems that most of the people prefer to invest their attention in trivial issues of all kind instead.
Prosaic contracts seem to me like an invaluable milestone for the upcoming mainstream adoption of crypto. Now we'd only need some real-world court starting to accept the undisputable evidence provided by Obyte's prosaic contracts. But I guess it will take a while before we'll be able to explain to courts how they could better do their jobs.  Cheesy

As for the argument which has been made about the problem of determining who has actually pressed the contract button, this is a momentary problem to which there are surely plenty of solutions. For example authenticating the person through the phone capability to read fingerprints.

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Today at 11:16:13 AM
Last edit: Today at 11:31:25 AM by tarmo888
 #21816

This works until it doesn't. And then not so funny things happen:

Quote
US Court Rejects DocuSign E-Signatures as method to provide Digital Authorization

An important point is that when the attorney was asked to prove that the e-signature belonged to the legitimate signer, it was shown that it was not possible because the DocuSign e-signature is generated by just a ‘click to sign’ button. There is no guarantee who clicks on the button and the declared name by itself (the area where the signer enters their name) is just a placeholder that can be filled by anybody.

https://www.cryptomathic.com/news-events/blog/us-court-rejects-docusign-e-signatures-as-method-to-provide-digital-authorization

See? The judge apparently is so ignorant as me. Or is this e-signing not so sure as you might think.

With Obyte wallet where the password is not mandatory it's just laughable.
 you have
If you read the article carefully you will find that in EU for e-signature to be valid and not dismissed by court:

Quote
"users must be positively identified and certified as being the individual they claim to be before they can issue an e-signature above the simple electronic signature level."

There's no certification process of validity in Obyte so claiming that:

Quote
"even Obyte announcement says that prosaic contracts satisfy all 4 requirements of “advanced electronic signature” under Article 26 of eIDAS in EU"

is equally laughable.


The funny part is that I had to mention DocuSign, so you would be able to google something negative about it and now you are talking why DocuSign never works. Apparently you have never used it, so you are totally ignoring that it is enough in some countries. I mentioned DocuSign just to counter your false claim that only handwritten signatures count, obviously signatures and authentication are more advanced on Obyte than just clicking a button. And there are many other digital signatures in Europe that are legally binding, it just shows that you are stuck in 90s.

Real name attested users on Obyte are already identified before they sign any contracts, that's what the Real Name Attestation bot does. If you don't want that you wallet gets stolen, you lock your phone/laptop with password. Password on an app is just optional extra protection, which anybody can use too to protect their identity even more.
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Today at 11:50:35 AM
Last edit: Today at 12:19:59 PM by StandingTall
 #21817

Identification is not certification. You don't know what you are talking about, not me. My advise is for the Obyte development team to take legal consulting before spending months if not years on developing features that are supposed to work within the real world and legal system. And that's what this whole dead-end real ID Obyte feature is now. Waste of time and effort and the end result is devoid of any applicable significance.

The Obyte development is turned on its head. You develop features without anybody being interested in using it. You've got so many features already that nobody is using and you keep developing new ones which nobody will use.

The right way to do it:

1. Find a real world problem that you can solve with Obyte platform.
2. Find a real world company/platform/or anybody interested in implementing your solution to the real problem.
3. Take legal consulting if this will actually work.
4. Sign an agreement with the interested party.
5. Develop the feature.
6. Implement the feature.

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Today at 12:38:09 PM
 #21818

Identification is not certification. You don't know what you are talking about, not me. My advise is for the Obyte development team to take legal consulting before spending months if not years on developing features that are supposed to work within the real world and legal system. And that's what this whole dead-end real ID Obyte feature is now. Waste of time and effort and the end result is devoid of any applicable significance.

The Obyte development is turned on its head. You develop features without anybody being interested in using it. You've got so many features already that nobody is using and you keep developing new ones which nobody will use.

The right way to do it:

1. Find a real world problem that you can solve with Obyte platform.
2. Find a real world company/platform/or anybody interested in implementing your solution to the real problem.
3. Take legal consulting if this will actually work.
4. Sign an agreement with the interested party.
5. Develop the feature.
6. Implement the feature.

Real name attestation does the identification with real documents from different governments using Jumio. Even more secure authentication is available for Baltic countries with ID-card/Mobile-ID/Smart-ID.
What country are you talking about, which needs a separate certification for every app that does digital signatures? Are you talking about signing government documents and excluding other more basic agreements that happen P2P or you are talking again handwritten signatures that can be done on touch screens? Also, in order to get certified, you need something that can be certified, version 2.7.0 is the first version of Obyte app that could be applied for certification in that country.

Did you consult YOUR lawyers and they said that it won't work in YOUR country? Or there should be some other reason why somebody should take "your advise" seriously? At the moment, you are just some rando with opinion on internet forum.
What makes you think it's a random feature and not actually what somebody (actual person/company, not somebody on internet forum) was asking for?
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Today at 03:01:25 PM
Merited by tarmo888 (1)
 #21819

I'm referring to the EU eIDAS regulations: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2014.257.01.0073.01.ENG

Quote
Article 25

2) A qualified electronic signature shall have the equivalent legal effect of a handwritten signature.

Article 3

(12) ‘qualified electronic signature’ means an advanced electronic signature that is created by a qualified electronic
signature creation device, and which is based on a qualified certificate for electronic signatures;

(15) ‘qualified certificate for electronic signature’ means a certificate for electronic signatures, that is issued by a qualified trust service provider and meets the requirements laid down in Annex I;

Article 22
Trusted lists
1.  Each Member State shall establish, maintain and publish trusted lists, including information related to the qualified trust service providers for which it is responsible, together with information related to the qualified trust services provided by them.

All in all:

1. Only a qualified electronic signature has the same legal effect in EU as a handwritten signature.
2. Qualified electronic signature requires a qualified certificate issued by a qualified trust service provider which has to be put on the list by the EU Member State.

None of this is the case with Obyte which means that it's signatures are not legally binding.


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Today at 03:28:26 PM
Last edit: Today at 03:58:37 PM by tarmo888
 #21820

I'm referring to the EU eIDAS regulations: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2014.257.01.0073.01.ENG

Quote
Article 25

2) A qualified electronic signature shall have the equivalent legal effect of a handwritten signature.

Article 3

(12) ‘qualified electronic signature’ means an advanced electronic signature that is created by a qualified electronic
signature creation device, and which is based on a qualified certificate for electronic signatures;

(15) ‘qualified certificate for electronic signature’ means a certificate for electronic signatures, that is issued by a qualified trust service provider and meets the requirements laid down in Annex I;

Article 22
Trusted lists
1.  Each Member State shall establish, maintain and publish trusted lists, including information related to the qualified trust service providers for which it is responsible, together with information related to the qualified trust services provided by them.

All in all:

1. Only a qualified electronic signature has the same legal effect in EU as a handwritten signature.
2. Qualified electronic signature requires a qualified certificate issued by a qualified trust service provider which has to be put on the list by the EU Member State.

None of this is the case with Obyte which means that it's signatures are not legally binding.



Great job looking all that up, but you forgot to add "... are not equal to handwritten signatures in EU yet". What you copy-pasted is about getting equal as handwritten signature (the highest level), there are more levels than just that.

For example, in order for Smart-ID to become QSCD (Qualified Signature Creation Device) in November 2018, they had that app out in public already in 2016. In order to get a Smart-ID, you need to sign a contract with ID-card or Mobile-ID, which had Level 1 – QES (Qualified Electronic Signature) already way earlier.
https://www.smart-id.com/help/faq/general/can-use-smart-id-sign-documents-electronically
https://www.id.ee/?lang=en&id=38499

Today, you can use ID-card/Mobile-ID/Smart-ID to have digital identity and sign prosaic contracts on Obyte, so getting it to QES level (highest level, which is equal to handwritten signature) is just another step, which you can't skip to by just waving with a white paper. Maybe you still haven't noticed, but each of these features complement each other - prosaic contracts would not have been possible without real name attestation, signatures that are equal to handwritten signatures would not become possible without prior two. And many countries, you still don't need prosaic contract signatures to be at highest level to be legally binding.

What I can already see is that with little bit of research, I think you don't believe anymore that handwritten signatures are the only way to go.
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