Coinsecure, Zebpay, Unocoin Due Dilligence

[forextoBTC]

Hi,

I have registered with coinsecure.in, unocoin, zebpay.

Now I am looking to do due diligence of the companies before depositing. I believe this will help everyone, so I thought I would open a thread.

Here is what I plan on doing, if someone has already done it please let me know, I will update here.

1- Physical address visit.

2- Check service tax number on government website.

3- Client deposits are segregated from operational funds/Admin/fee collected funds?
This is a major one and I don't believe there is a hard and fast way of knowing this. @benson, illuminate us on this for coinsecure.in.

4- Balance sheet/ROC/others from MCA website.

Edit: UPDATE:20-09-2016
(Not exactly DD but still helpful to all)

5- Fiat(INR),

Deposit time:

i) Unocoin

Small amount(4 digit INR) test funding of account, during their operating time: went through quick: 20-30 mins.

Small amount(5 digit INR) test funding of account, just before their office closing time: went through quick: 20-30 mins.

No calls were made by me, simple refernce number input.

ii) Coinsecure

Small amount(4 digit INR) test funding of account, during their operating time: went through quick: 20-30 mins.

Mid range(5 digit INR) test funding of account, 5AM time: went through after I assume their offices opened. Shows 11:40 AM.


Withdrawal time

i) Coinsecure: Multiple withdraws, Done within 30-60mins when their office is open.

6- Bitcoin:

DEPOSIT Time:

i) Coinsecure: 2 deposits, quickly credited. The option to check confirmations is great.



Withdraw Time:

i) Unocoin

Placed withdraw request, immediate send, took 2 hours to process and show up in my wallet.

ii) Coinsecure

Placed withdraw request, immediate send(fee: 0.0001), funds withdrew instantly.
Slow to reach my wallet, constantly showing this is a low fee transaction and will take time.


7- Support response time



8- Order Slippage  (i.e. I put in an order for 1 BTC @ 42200 inclusive of fee, is there any slippage in final price? Assume instant payment from client)

9- Order fill and deliver of BTC to wallet. Both internal and external.

There are various other checks which I will undertake for nearly all India based btc exchanges/services.

While I am all in favor of BTC exchanges, the above are a necessity for anyone depositing their money into a business entity.


Regards

[1713626250]

1713626250

[1713626250]

1713626250

[1713626250]

1713626250

[1713626250]

1713626250

[1713626250]

1713626250

[1713626250]

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[goenkas]

Great exercise which will help the entire bitcoin community. You won't find any issues with all your 4 points with these 3 companies. The 3 of us are legit companies and all great choices for Indian bitcoin users.

- Sandeep Goenka, co-founder, Zebpay

[forextoBTC]

Hi Sandeep,

If you would help out with an answer(and ways to verify) to the 3rd question, I am pretty clear on the procedure for all the other questions:

Client funds are segregated or not?

It would be great.

Great exercise which will help the entire bitcoin community. You won't find any issues with all your 4 points with these 3 companies. The 3 of us are legit companies and all great choices for Indian bitcoin users.

- Sandeep Goenka, co-founder, Zebpay

[forextoBTC]

Deposit and withdraw times updated based on my experience with unocoin and coinsecure.

[forextoBTC]

Edit: The withdrawal was processed as soon as their office timings started.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Requested Fiat withdrawal from Coinsecure.

I wonder how long they will take.

Market conditions should be wild today, true test of service and systems.

Applicable only to Coinsecure, but are they a prop trading desk/Market makers or true brokers?

[Benson Samuel]

Requested Fiat withdrawal from Coinsecure.

I wonder how long they will take.

Market conditions should be wild today, true test of service and systems.

Applicable only to Coinsecure, but are they a prop trading desk/Market makers or true brokers?

3- Client deposits are segregated from operational funds/Admin/fee collected funds?
This is a major one and I don't believe there is a hard and fast way of knowing this. @benson, illuminate us on this for coinsecure.in.

Yeah, fees are segregated into different accounts as soon as the trades happen. The final sweeping of keys is done on a weekly basis, or as per need to physically segeregate the funds.
We do club withdrawals, but not much generates from that combined fee saving, I assume this will make a bit of a difference as withdrawal transactions grow.

Requested Fiat withdrawal from Coinsecure.

I wonder how long they will take.

Market conditions should be wild today, true test of service and systems.

Applicable only to Coinsecure, but are they a prop trading desk/Market makers or true brokers?

What time did you request the withdrawal? If before 8, It should have been done.
Coinsecure is a p2p algorithmic trading platform.

ii) Coinsecure

Placed withdraw request, immediate send(fee: 0.0001), funds withdrew instantly.
Slow to reach my wallet, constantly showing this is a low fee transaction and will take time.

Withdraw sweeps happen every minute or so, so there may be a lag between a verified and completed withdraw.
Will check on the low fee transaction bit. Have not seen this happen across local and live tests, but will check and revert/ action.

8- Order Slippage  (i.e. I put in an order for 1 BTC @ 42200 inclusive of fee, is there any slippage in final price? Assume instant payment from client)

After fee, there is no slippage. Bitcoin does have its network fee, but nothing for INR as of now.

Sorry for the delayed reply.

[forextoBTC]

Hi Benson

I appreciate the answers.

I have updated the withdrawal time. Will be updating the OP as well.

Need a feature:

Fiat Deposit/withdraw at anytime and confirmation within half hour. Haha while I realise this is a bit problematic, but with the kind of volatility and exchange options, this would grow the volume. Example: wanted to deposit yesterday night for FOMC but couldn't.

Yeah, fees are segregated into different accounts as soon as the trades happen. The final sweeping of keys is done on a weekly basis, or as per need to physically segeregate the funds.
We do club withdrawals, but not much generates from that combined fee saving, I assume this will make a bit of a difference as withdrawal transactions grow.

I am a bit confused by this answer, is there a separate account for operational funds and client funds? Or are they one and the same. I am considering payroll, maintanence etc in the operational funds.

....Coinsecure is a p2p algorithmic trading platform.

1- Are their any orders from Coinsecure on the platform? (Buy or Sell)

Basically does Coinsecure use their own/company funds to place orders on the system? Thereby making profit/losses.
Or No trades, no transaction fees as collected.

Thanks

[Benson Samuel]

Hi Benson

I appreciate the answers.

I have updated the withdrawal time. Will be updating the OP as well.

Need a feature:

Fiat Deposit/withdraw at anytime and confirmation within half hour. Haha while I realise this is a bit problematic, but with the kind of volatility and exchange options, this would grow the volume. Example: wanted to deposit yesterday night for FOMC but couldn't.

Yeah, fees are segregated into different accounts as soon as the trades happen. The final sweeping of keys is done on a weekly basis, or as per need to physically segeregate the funds.
We do club withdrawals, but not much generates from that combined fee saving, I assume this will make a bit of a difference as withdrawal transactions grow.

I am a bit confused by this answer, is there a separate account for operational funds and client funds? Or are they one and the same. I am considering payroll, maintanence etc in the operational funds.

....Coinsecure is a p2p algorithmic trading platform.

1- Are their any orders from Coinsecure on the platform? (Buy or Sell)

Basically does Coinsecure use their own/company funds to place orders on the system? Thereby making profit/losses.
Or No trades, no transaction fees as collected.

Thanks

Aah, I thought you were asking about how we work on fee separation, etc.
Yup, we do hold separate accounts for operational and capital funds.

No, Coinsecure does not place trades on the platform.

[Benson Samuel]

Fiat Deposit/withdraw at anytime and confirmation within half hour. Haha while I realise this is a bit problematic, but with the kind of volatility and exchange options, this would grow the volume. Example: wanted to deposit yesterday night for FOMC but couldn't. Sad

Missed this.

I do believe that during working hours, we have been able to sustain the 20 min average.
As volumes grow, we have our eyes on a 24/7 operation. 

[forextoBTC]

The withdrawal went through in record time. 15 mins I think.
------------------------
Benson, thanks for the replies. The sign of a company atleast willing to disclose whether they really are an exchange or not.


I don't think my question was understood in the way I meant. i.e. When I make a deposit say 10k, 1 BTC. Where do these funds go?

Here is an example of what I meant when I said segregated funds/accounts:

"Our client's money are kept in a segregated (separate) client account i.e. client money is held separately from company funds and cannot be used by The company except for client dealing purposes. Client funds cannot be used to guarantee The company accounts or to offset company loans."

I am too lazy to get a proper reference but this is the quickest one I could remember from an old chat with one exchange/broker.

I am assuming your answer covers it, but as you can see the above example makes it crystal clear.

-----------------------Edit-------------------------
After a half hour, Btcxindia SMS verification code came through.
That being said, I still believe it is incomprehensible to me how a company doesn't have phone verification or other system for a SMS verification not happening ideal. Specially a company dealing with bitcoin.

I will test out the service though.
I wonder if call and trade is a available or not. Wait I should add this to the OP, its relevant for all the services/exchanges/brokers.
--------------End Edit-------------------------------

Got ultra frustrated with btcxindia today.

Registeration process, SMS verification, not getting the SMS, support says: Remove your number from DND which might be causing this. LMAO. Sorry I am not going to work with a company which is using a promotional message SMS pack.

Or may be its just my number, whatever it is. I have no idea how a company can lose a client because SMS verification is not hapening, make a different system. Do a call verification, anything as long as you don't lose a client.

[Benson Samuel]

Your assumption on that would be right . Banks do provide us with escrow accounts to hold client funds.

Am gonna throw my two satoshis on comparisons of Bitcoins services at this point in time of the eco-system build up.

Each provider caters to various parts of their customer bases, bound by their own choices in terms of risk, business models, tech, etc..
Bitcoins awesomeness comes from its easy ability to be molded into various packages that can be used by all.

I do feel that comparisons at this point in time are not very fair as each company working in this space have been pushing hard under several verticals.
Some do great under some verticals, and some outperform others in some ways.
But each one occupies a very important space towards laying the foundation towards wider adoption, primarily because of the diversity of customer preferences and an abundance of options in a time of no regulation.

In a very short span of time, India, now has easy access to INR based Wallets, Exchanges, Payment Gateways, Escrow Services, Api's, Mobile Apps, Market Places, Recharge Options, Booking Options, Growing International Partnerships and many more services to cater to everyone.

I am personally quite confident that the next 6-12 months of this eco-system will see faster evolution, adaption and smoother services.

Add
But this is a very cool initiative to provide unbiased data to improve all services.

[forextoBTC]

Thanks Benson, that answer is perfect for me. I will add it to the OP in some time.

[dashingriddler]

I represent Unocoin and I am available to answer any sepcific questions about Unocoin if you are not able to figure it out yourself

[forextoBTC]

I represent Unocoin and I am available to answer any sepcific questions about Unocoin if you are not able to figure it out yourself

The main question:

1- Client funds are segregated or not?

Please read above for more clarity.

[dashingriddler]

I represent Unocoin and I am available to answer any sepcific questions about Unocoin if you are not able to figure it out yourself

The main question:

1- Client funds are segregated or not?

Please read above for more clarity.

There is a practical issue if this needs to be done in real time in a specific bank account which means for every buy and sell, the amount needs to keep on decreasing and increasing respectively.

Instead what we do is, we maintain a separate bank account with about 1.25x of previous week ending balance (total of INR balance from customers) and we top this up (if less than 1x of ending balance) as and when required on weekly basis.

[forextoBTC]

I represent Unocoin and I am available to answer any sepcific questions about Unocoin if you are not able to figure it out yourself

The main question:

1- Client funds are segregated or not?

Please read above for more clarity.

There is a practical issue if this needs to be done in real time in a specific bank account which means for every buy and sell, the amount needs to keep on decreasing and increasing respectively.

Instead what we do is, we maintain a separate bank account with about 1.25x of previous week ending balance (total of INR balance from customers) and we top this up (if less than 1x of ending balance) as and when required on weekly basis.

That's surprising. Who has access to this separate account(signing authority)? Is it an escrow account? Any third party over sight?

[dashingriddler]

I represent Unocoin and I am available to answer any sepcific questions about Unocoin if you are not able to figure it out yourself

The main question:

1- Client funds are segregated or not?

Please read above for more clarity.

There is a practical issue if this needs to be done in real time in a specific bank account which means for every buy and sell, the amount needs to keep on decreasing and increasing respectively.

Instead what we do is, we maintain a separate bank account with about 1.25x of previous week ending balance (total of INR balance from customers) and we top this up (if less than 1x of ending balance) as and when required on weekly basis.

That's surprising. Who has access to this separate account(signing authority)? Is it an escrow account? Any third party over sight?

The directors of the company have access to it.

It is not an escrow account. There is no third party over sight and is done this way for purely separating this money from rest of money in company.