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Author Topic: Best Offline Wallet For Storing Bitcoins?  (Read 1477 times)
Senor.Bla
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September 21, 2016, 09:01:28 AM
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how can you guaranty that you receive an original product and not some fake to steel your coins?
That's why you should only buy new products from the official stores(trezor,ledger etc.) and avoid buying hardware wallets from untrusted sellers,it is highly unlikely one of these big companies will scam you and steal your coins.
the company producing the hardware wallets will surly not try to scam me, but they still have to send the package and this is a possible way to swap the original device with a tempered one. i know that this is a fare fetched situation, but people tend not to mind it, but have some similar scenarios when they speak about the dangers of making your own wallet.

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September 21, 2016, 09:11:21 AM
 #22

how can you guaranty that you receive an original product and not some fake to steel your coins?
That's why you should only buy new products from the official stores(trezor,ledger etc.) and avoid buying hardware wallets from untrusted sellers,it is highly unlikely one of these big companies will scam you and steal your coins.
the company producing the hardware wallets will surly not try to scam me, but they still have to send the package and this is a possible way to swap the original device with a tempered one. i know that this is a fare fetched situation, but people tend not to mind it, but have some similar scenarios when they speak about the dangers of making your own wallet.

You do have a point, but if you're this paranoid, you should also read the full sourcecode of any wallet software you run, and compile it yourself just to be sure nobody tampered with your wallet software.

As soon as you trust the signature of the maintainer, you already assume the signer of the binary didn't go rogue and inserted malicious code to steal your coins.

Don't get me wrong, i think you have a valid point, but in order to be 100% safe, you should review the sourcecode of your OS and your wallet, compile everything yourself,... For me, it's just not practical to live that way. I'd rather trust some experienced companies and maintainers than do everything myself Wink

Senor.Bla
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September 21, 2016, 09:29:20 AM
 #23

how can you guaranty that you receive an original product and not some fake to steel your coins?
That's why you should only buy new products from the official stores(trezor,ledger etc.) and avoid buying hardware wallets from untrusted sellers,it is highly unlikely one of these big companies will scam you and steal your coins.
the company producing the hardware wallets will surly not try to scam me, but they still have to send the package and this is a possible way to swap the original device with a tempered one. i know that this is a fare fetched situation, but people tend not to mind it, but have some similar scenarios when they speak about the dangers of making your own wallet.

You do have a point, but if you're this paranoid, you should also read the full sourcecode of any wallet software you run, and compile it yourself just to be sure nobody tampered with your wallet software.

As soon as you trust the signature of the maintainer, you already assume the signer of the binary didn't go rogue and inserted malicious code to steal your coins.

Don't get me wrong, i think you have a valid point, but in order to be 100% safe, you should review the sourcecode of your OS and your wallet, compile everything yourself,... For me, it's just not practical to live that way. I'd rather trust some experienced companies and maintainers than do everything myself Wink

see that is exactly my point. i hear this a lot from hardware wallets enthusiast. why is a hardware wallet better then a simple wallet? to be fair you have to look at it this way:
either we trust the programmer or we check the source code. both this goes for both. the simple wallet and also the hardware wallet. then you have the transfer period. i can download it and check the checksum. you would have to trust the shipping company and in addition you also have to use some kind of software (as far as i know) to run the hardware wallet.
and from this point the safety is in the users hand anyway. so i do not see why a hardware wallet should be better. at least when just looking at those points.

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September 21, 2016, 11:52:12 AM
 #24

how can you guaranty that you receive an original product and not some fake to steel your coins?
That's why you should only buy new products from the official stores(trezor,ledger etc.) and avoid buying hardware wallets from untrusted sellers,it is highly unlikely one of these big companies will scam you and steal your coins.
the company producing the hardware wallets will surly not try to scam me, but they still have to send the package and this is a possible way to swap the original device with a tempered one. i know that this is a fare fetched situation, but people tend not to mind it, but have some similar scenarios when they speak about the dangers of making your own wallet.

You do have a point, but if you're this paranoid, you should also read the full sourcecode of any wallet software you run, and compile it yourself just to be sure nobody tampered with your wallet software.

As soon as you trust the signature of the maintainer, you already assume the signer of the binary didn't go rogue and inserted malicious code to steal your coins.

Don't get me wrong, i think you have a valid point, but in order to be 100% safe, you should review the sourcecode of your OS and your wallet, compile everything yourself,... For me, it's just not practical to live that way. I'd rather trust some experienced companies and maintainers than do everything myself Wink

see that is exactly my point. i hear this a lot from hardware wallets enthusiast. why is a hardware wallet better then a simple wallet? to be fair you have to look at it this way:
either we trust the programmer or we check the source code. both this goes for both. the simple wallet and also the hardware wallet. then you have the transfer period. i can download it and check the checksum. you would have to trust the shipping company and in addition you also have to use some kind of software (as far as i know) to run the hardware wallet.
and from this point the safety is in the users hand anyway. so i do not see why a hardware wallet should be better. at least when just looking at those points.

the only reason why people choose hardware wallets is that they are looking for an easy way to reach a high level of security. not everyone has programming knowledge to secure his wallet himself or even go through the code, compile it, ...

using any other wallet like electrum means going through these steps:
- make a raw transaction online
- transfer that raw unsigned tx to the offline computer that has the private keys
- sign transactions offline
- transfer it back to an online system and
- finally broadcast it

and in all these steps you have to be careful not to contaminate the offline system with a malware while transferring. this which may be simple for many of us, is still scary and not acceptable for many other people.

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September 21, 2016, 12:12:29 PM
 #25

how can you guaranty that you receive an original product and not some fake to steel your coins?
That's why you should only buy new products from the official stores(trezor,ledger etc.) and avoid buying hardware wallets from untrusted sellers,it is highly unlikely one of these big companies will scam you and steal your coins.
the company producing the hardware wallets will surly not try to scam me, but they still have to send the package and this is a possible way to swap the original device with a tempered one. i know that this is a fare fetched situation, but people tend not to mind it, but have some similar scenarios when they speak about the dangers of making your own wallet.

You do have a point, but if you're this paranoid, you should also read the full sourcecode of any wallet software you run, and compile it yourself just to be sure nobody tampered with your wallet software.

As soon as you trust the signature of the maintainer, you already assume the signer of the binary didn't go rogue and inserted malicious code to steal your coins.

Don't get me wrong, i think you have a valid point, but in order to be 100% safe, you should review the sourcecode of your OS and your wallet, compile everything yourself,... For me, it's just not practical to live that way. I'd rather trust some experienced companies and maintainers than do everything myself Wink

see that is exactly my point. i hear this a lot from hardware wallets enthusiast. why is a hardware wallet better then a simple wallet? to be fair you have to look at it this way:
either we trust the programmer or we check the source code. both this goes for both. the simple wallet and also the hardware wallet. then you have the transfer period. i can download it and check the checksum. you would have to trust the shipping company and in addition you also have to use some kind of software (as far as i know) to run the hardware wallet.
and from this point the safety is in the users hand anyway. so i do not see why a hardware wallet should be better. at least when just looking at those points.

the only reason why people choose hardware wallets is that they are looking for an easy way to reach a high level of security. not everyone has programming knowledge to secure his wallet himself or even go through the code, compile it, ...

using any other wallet like electrum means going through these steps:
- make a raw transaction online
- transfer that raw unsigned tx to the offline computer that has the private keys
- sign transactions offline
- transfer it back to an online system and
- finally broadcast it

and in all these steps you have to be careful not to contaminate the offline system with a malware while transferring. this which may be simple for many of us, is still scary and not acceptable for many other people.
sorry, but i feel like those are things you can learn very easily and i am sure there are tutorials and vids on this. if you want something in life you have to do something.
sure you can also just trow money at something and expect the problem to go away, but using a hardware wallet because every thing else is to complex for you will surly be a bad decision on the long run.
and btw there is a thread about if banks will offer some service as wallets. if enough helpless people will want that then i am sure the banks will do it for you. and even hold your keys.
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September 21, 2016, 04:51:07 PM
 #26

how can you guaranty that you receive an original product and not some fake to steel your coins?
That's why you should only buy new products from the official stores(trezor,ledger etc.) and avoid buying hardware wallets from untrusted sellers,it is highly unlikely one of these big companies will scam you and steal your coins.
the company producing the hardware wallets will surly not try to scam me, but they still have to send the package and this is a possible way to swap the original device with a tempered one. i know that this is a fare fetched situation, but people tend not to mind it, but have some similar scenarios when they speak about the dangers of making your own wallet.

You do have a point, but if you're this paranoid, you should also read the full sourcecode of any wallet software you run, and compile it yourself just to be sure nobody tampered with your wallet software.

As soon as you trust the signature of the maintainer, you already assume the signer of the binary didn't go rogue and inserted malicious code to steal your coins.

Don't get me wrong, i think you have a valid point, but in order to be 100% safe, you should review the sourcecode of your OS and your wallet, compile everything yourself,... For me, it's just not practical to live that way. I'd rather trust some experienced companies and maintainers than do everything myself Wink

see that is exactly my point. i hear this a lot from hardware wallets enthusiast. why is a hardware wallet better then a simple wallet? to be fair you have to look at it this way:
either we trust the programmer or we check the source code. both this goes for both. the simple wallet and also the hardware wallet. then you have the transfer period. i can download it and check the checksum. you would have to trust the shipping company and in addition you also have to use some kind of software (as far as i know) to run the hardware wallet.
and from this point the safety is in the users hand anyway. so i do not see why a hardware wallet should be better. at least when just looking at those points.

the only reason why people choose hardware wallets is that they are looking for an easy way to reach a high level of security. not everyone has programming knowledge to secure his wallet himself or even go through the code, compile it, ...

using any other wallet like electrum means going through these steps:
- make a raw transaction online
- transfer that raw unsigned tx to the offline computer that has the private keys
- sign transactions offline
- transfer it back to an online system and
- finally broadcast it

and in all these steps you have to be careful not to contaminate the offline system with a malware while transferring. this which may be simple for many of us, is still scary and not acceptable for many other people.
sorry, but i feel like those are things you can learn very easily and i am sure there are tutorials and vids on this. if you want something in life you have to do something.
sure you can also just trow money at something and expect the problem to go away, but using a hardware wallet because every thing else is to complex for you will surly be a bad decision on the long run.
and btw there is a thread about if banks will offer some service as wallets. if enough helpless people will want that then i am sure the banks will do it for you. and even hold your keys.


So you want Bitcoin use to be difficult so that banks can replace it with their user-friendly alternatives? Nope my friend.. Hardware wallets

are just a more secure method to store your coins, because you have to get access to the physical device to access the Bitcoins. Not

everyone have access to the tools to do that, so it's accepted that hardware wallets are a more secure method to store coins than online

wallets or desktop wallets. Make it easier and they will use it. { The same thing happened with the internet. }

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September 21, 2016, 05:13:50 PM
 #27

Some great advice and forced me to look up what "air-gapped" meant and now I need to learn how to achieve this.
Feel like such a donut when it comes to securing and understanding a lot of the jargon used. I might have stumbled on a few porn sites before I found what I was looking for but thats the price of learning. Cheesy
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September 21, 2016, 05:17:48 PM
 #28

Paperwallet you mean? Paperwallet is the safest design so far, easy to take and store, better than hardware. Theives would never a paper and possibly he knows nothing about bitcoin. They may steal hardware wallet because they think hardware is worth money.
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September 22, 2016, 05:58:34 AM
 #29

I have taken all the advise on board and here's my plan...

Create 10x Bitcoin address's on an offline computer using downloaded version of bitaddress.org. Create 10x Bitcoin address's with Electrum on offline computer. Put all 20x keys in KeePass using encryption and 30 character password. Then encrypt KeePass file with TrueCrypt and different 30 character password. Copy to file to several USB sticks, and bury the USB sticks in waterproof boxes in family members gardens.

Can then pay a little into each wallets for the next 20 years and there's a pension plan  Grin
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September 22, 2016, 06:08:13 AM
 #30

I have taken all the advise on board and here's my plan...

Create 10x Bitcoin address's on an offline computer using downloaded version of bitaddress.org. Create 10x Bitcoin address's with Electrum on offline computer. Put all 20x keys in KeePass using encryption and 30 character password. Then encrypt KeePass file with TrueCrypt and different 30 character password. Copy to file to several USB sticks, and bury the USB sticks in waterproof boxes in family members gardens.

Can then pay a little into each wallets for the next 20 years and there's a pension plan  Grin
Lol, but that's so complicated... you will having a lot of address... okay but i'm glad for heard you already getting your answer and why you're not trying or making it be more simple than like your explanation is like an essay..? let's trying your method and i also waiting about your result... maybe i can trying your method...

Senor.Bla
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September 22, 2016, 06:22:08 AM
 #31

I have taken all the advise on board and here's my plan...

Create 10x Bitcoin address's on an offline computer using downloaded version of bitaddress.org. Create 10x Bitcoin address's with Electrum on offline computer. Put all 20x keys in KeePass using encryption and 30 character password. Then encrypt KeePass file with TrueCrypt and different 30 character password. Copy to file to several USB sticks, and bury the USB sticks in waterproof boxes in family members gardens.

Can then pay a little into each wallets for the next 20 years and there's a pension plan  Grin
sounds good to me, but might i suggest to use VeraCrypt instead of TrueCrypt. TrueCrypt had some problems and development has stopped. VeraCrypt is the successor.
oh and make sure to include a version of the used software on the usb as well. maybe a newer software will not support you old data anymore (which i consider unlikely) and you will have a hard time finding an older version.   

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September 22, 2016, 06:29:46 AM
 #32

I have taken all the advise on board and here's my plan...

Create 10x Bitcoin address's on an offline computer using downloaded version of bitaddress.org. Create 10x Bitcoin address's with Electrum on offline computer. Put all 20x keys in KeePass using encryption and 30 character password. Then encrypt KeePass file with TrueCrypt and different 30 character password. Copy to file to several USB sticks, and bury the USB sticks in waterproof boxes in family members gardens.

Can then pay a little into each wallets for the next 20 years and there's a pension plan  Grin
sounds good to me, but might i suggest to use VeraCrypt instead of TrueCrypt. TrueCrypt had some problems and development has stopped. VeraCrypt is the successor.
oh and make sure to include a version of the used software on the usb as well. maybe a newer software will not support you old data anymore (which i consider unlikely) and you will have a hard time finding an older version.   

the method he is suggesting is only a paranoid version of a safe way of making a cold storage.

and as for what you said, these applications that stop being backward compatible will always have a little line of code to enable old users still be able to enter their old version and use it.
and also on top of that, you can always find the old version either on the distributors site or if it is open source on the source code history to compile yourself or somewhere on the internet.

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September 22, 2016, 06:34:36 AM
 #33

I have taken all the advise on board and here's my plan...

Create 10x Bitcoin address's on an offline computer using downloaded version of bitaddress.org. Create 10x Bitcoin address's with Electrum on offline computer. Put all 20x keys in KeePass using encryption and 30 character password. Then encrypt KeePass file with TrueCrypt and different 30 character password. Copy to file to several USB sticks, and bury the USB sticks in waterproof boxes in family members gardens.

Can then pay a little into each wallets for the next 20 years and there's a pension plan  Grin
sounds good to me, but might i suggest to use VeraCrypt instead of TrueCrypt. TrueCrypt had some problems and development has stopped. VeraCrypt is the successor.
oh and make sure to include a version of the used software on the usb as well. maybe a newer software will not support you old data anymore (which i consider unlikely) and you will have a hard time finding an older version.   

the method he is suggesting is only a paranoid version of a safe way of making a cold storage.

and as for what you said, these applications that stop being backward compatible will always have a little line of code to enable old users still be able to enter their old version and use it.
and also on top of that, you can always find the old version either on the distributors site or if it is open source on the source code history to compile yourself or somewhere on the internet.

so let him be paranoid. b etter safe then sorry. also it is really not trouble to include the software on the stick too. one again better safe then sorry and at least it safes you the trouble of searching for it and puts your mind at ease.
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September 22, 2016, 06:59:25 AM
 #34

I think, that hardware wallets are not as safe as an encrypted Bitcoin core offline wallet. Too many more possible bad actors and vulnerabilities with solutions like Trezor.

My ignore list here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1652334.0 +++ GPG Public key FFBD756C24B54962E6A772EA1C680D74DB714D40 +++ http://pgp.mit.edu/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x1C680D74DB714D40
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September 23, 2016, 04:44:42 PM
 #35

I put my bitcoins on to many different paper wallets in small usable amount,  if i want to use them i just scan the private key QR code in to breadwallet on my iphone and they are ready to use.  if doing this then download the bitaddress.org on to an airgapped computer first or just disconnect from the internet, check with anti virus and malware checker and then wipe the browser.  i find this really easy way to operate.

Storing your bitcoins in more than one wallets is a good idea. When you use an offline, one of the most important criteria that you want to ensure is the availability of the bitcoins. Bitcoins cannot get damaged so the two most important criterias that you've to take care is keeping your private keys private and keeping your bitcoins, the offline wallets you're storing your bitcoins in, available. Keeping more than one wallet help you protect your bitcoins with more private keys and from more wallets, it's more likely that you can access enough.

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September 23, 2016, 05:17:42 PM
 #36

i will advice electrum wallet and mycelium wallet and even the bither wallet or something like that in blue color and if possible them go for the bitcoin core it needs 40gb download but the best wallet till now with max features

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September 23, 2016, 05:39:37 PM
 #37

I usually use bitaddress respiratory from here https://github.com/pointbiz/bitaddress.org
- Download it and move it to offline computer which i never connect to internet.
- Open it on browser than it will open same site like bitaddress.org but it will not be connected to any server online.
- Than generate bitcoin address, print out it and i will note bitcoin address in notepad in online laptop so that whenever i need, i can atleast remember my bitcoin address.


Storing that printed paper wallet in safe place, protected from tearing, washing, fire etc.

I just know about it so we can print own paper wallet only need to install bitaddress respiratory to offline computer but if want change to online wallet it will not get a problem??
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