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Author Topic: [ANN]★vDice Ethereum Blockchain Gambling★ || [ProfitContainer is Deployed]  (Read 70779 times)
V1saya
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November 02, 2016, 08:03:35 PM
 #121

I also just noticed this thread yesterday. I was a bit sleepy but it did caught my attention. I like betting and investing in it as what I am currently doing. So this is a perfect opportunity for bettors and investors. Currently there are only few betting sites that accept investors so vDice is giving another room for people to join a unique betting site.

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Snorek
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November 02, 2016, 08:06:23 PM
 #122

We started life as Bitcoiners back in 2011 (those annoying types who get obsessed with it).

We did this on Ethereum 'cause it was so utterly interesting and available.
If we can do it on rootstock with Bitcoin, then why not. We'll have to dive into the Rootstock code.

But we still think Ethereum has a very, very bright future.
We're more convinced of that now, as we build with it more.
So you started with Bitcoin and as soon something technically better (at that time) with more possibilities (DAPPS, smart contracts) showed up you switched over.
Will you guarantee that in the future when  we possibly may see even more advanced altcoin with better, futuristic solutions implemented you won't ditch your current project and switch again?
I mean current ETH blockchain has some limitations as well.

It's a fair question. Though the facts / assumptions are not technically correct.

We are blockchain nerds. We maintain successful applications for Bitcoin at the moment too.
We've even written applications for Dogecoin that are very successful for that space, on an ongoing basis.

These are all betting / gambling applications. So we stick to a core competency.
As we believe it is wrong to spread yourself too thin. Then nothing gets achieved. That's a core philosophy for us.

So, we don't "ditch" anything. These are ongoing projects that are going well, in a commercial setting.

We have a good core team of developers, some of the best. We have guys even on the original Ethereum founding team.
We also have an extended team of sub-contracted security experts, and developers.

After the crowdsale, with funds, that team will be increased over time, at a manageable pace.

We realise we live and breathe by the developer talent we attract and keep. We consider ourselves very good at that.
It's probably the most important thing. This space has a limited amount of real talent, for how fast the technology is growing.

That will change over an extended period. But it takes time for real talent to re-tool and re-adapt to working with this new technology.

So, it was never a matter of just switching over to Ethereum. It was a platform that allowed us to build an extra application within our core competency.

Please ask further questions if you feel this was not a satisfactory answer. I am not being facetious. Quality questions like this help everyone on this thread.
It was actually pretty good answer and I am satisfied with your explanation.

I was wondering about something else - you are obviously gambling platform. And you are building ICO around it.
Have you heard opinions that your ICO may be not good because it is affiliated with gambling industry, hence will be probably used only by gamblers - effectively limiting customer range?
Some people have trouble deciding whether "gambling coin" is good or bad idea. Maybe you will find you niche?
joksim299
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November 03, 2016, 12:53:30 AM
 #123

So looking a bit deeper into this, it seems even more concerning. My understanding is that the player will need to trust

* random.org
* cloudflare
* oraclize

As the code doesn't appear to be using random.org's sequences (?), so there's no way to check how many times random.org was asked for random numbers. It just checks that random.org gave a result. It can give any result it wants, and there's no guarantees (unlike a provably fair scheme). But worse, is this means oraclize can ask it as many times as it wants. But the TLS layer is done by cloudflare, so you also need to trust them (they can change the result if they want). There's probably no problem trusting all 3 (?!) parties, but the problem I see is if one of them cheats, it's 100% undetectable.

Now contrast this to going to a bitcoin gambling site, say PrimeDice:

* I deposit money
* I play using a proper dedicated interface, and have instant bets
* I check my results
* I withdraw


So in the vdice case, I'm trusting 3 parties who can cheat me (?) but if they do, I'll never know. And they know I'll never know.  Now contrast to PrimeDice, which you do need to trust with the amount you deposit, whoever it's impossible for them to undetectable cheat you. This provides extra incentive for them to be honest.


Anyway, I'm sure i'm missing something as AFAICT it's strictly a step down from current bitcoin gambling?   (Disclaimer: I'm very unfamiliar with ethereum and greatly dislike it, so my reading of the contract is likely totally mistaken)

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November 03, 2016, 07:59:55 AM
 #124

We started life as Bitcoiners back in 2011 (those annoying types who get obsessed with it).

We did this on Ethereum 'cause it was so utterly interesting and available.
If we can do it on rootstock with Bitcoin, then why not. We'll have to dive into the Rootstock code.

But we still think Ethereum has a very, very bright future.
We're more convinced of that now, as we build with it more.
So you started with Bitcoin and as soon something technically better (at that time) with more possibilities (DAPPS, smart contracts) showed up you switched over.
Will you guarantee that in the future when  we possibly may see even more advanced altcoin with better, futuristic solutions implemented you won't ditch your current project and switch again?
I mean current ETH blockchain has some limitations as well.

It's a fair question. Though the facts / assumptions are not technically correct.

We are blockchain nerds. We maintain successful applications for Bitcoin at the moment too.
We've even written applications for Dogecoin that are very successful for that space, on an ongoing basis.

These are all betting / gambling applications. So we stick to a core competency.
As we believe it is wrong to spread yourself too thin. Then nothing gets achieved. That's a core philosophy for us.

So, we don't "ditch" anything. These are ongoing projects that are going well, in a commercial setting.

We have a good core team of developers, some of the best. We have guys even on the original Ethereum founding team.
We also have an extended team of sub-contracted security experts, and developers.

After the crowdsale, with funds, that team will be increased over time, at a manageable pace.

We realise we live and breathe by the developer talent we attract and keep. We consider ourselves very good at that.
It's probably the most important thing. This space has a limited amount of real talent, for how fast the technology is growing.

That will change over an extended period. But it takes time for real talent to re-tool and re-adapt to working with this new technology.

So, it was never a matter of just switching over to Ethereum. It was a platform that allowed us to build an extra application within our core competency.

Please ask further questions if you feel this was not a satisfactory answer. I am not being facetious. Quality questions like this help everyone on this thread.
It was actually pretty good answer and I am satisfied with your explanation.

I was wondering about something else - you are obviously gambling platform. And you are building ICO around it.
Have you heard opinions that your ICO may be not good because it is affiliated with gambling industry, hence will be probably used only by gamblers - effectively limiting customer range?
Some people have trouble deciding whether "gambling coin" is good or bad idea. Maybe you will find you niche?


The response has been really positive. Most people seem to recongnize:

1). Gambling and blockchains go really well together, and make profit.

2). That despite all the hype around blockchain applications, gambling is already profitable and commercial.

So, that's been great to see.

vDICE.io |     √ Processed 10,000 Bets     √ Ethereum Smart Contract (Dapp)
vDICE.io|                      The Crowdsale Object: ‘vSlice’ Token
vDICE.io |     √ Ethereum blockchain       √ ‘SatoshiDICE-style’ betting game
.|
 |
 |
15th Nov
ICO Open
15th Dec
vdice_io
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November 03, 2016, 08:06:57 AM
 #125

So looking a bit deeper into this, it seems even more concerning. My understanding is that the player will need to trust

* random.org
* cloudflare
* oraclize

As the code doesn't appear to be using random.org's sequences (?), so there's no way to check how many times random.org was asked for random numbers. It just checks that random.org gave a result. It can give any result it wants, and there's no guarantees (unlike a provably fair scheme). But worse, is this means oraclize can ask it as many times as it wants. But the TLS layer is done by cloudflare, so you also need to trust them (they can change the result if they want). There's probably no problem trusting all 3 (?!) parties, but the problem I see is if one of them cheats, it's 100% undetectable.

Now contrast this to going to a bitcoin gambling site, say PrimeDice:

* I deposit money
* I play using a proper dedicated interface, and have instant bets
* I check my results
* I withdraw


So in the vdice case, I'm trusting 3 parties who can cheat me (?) but if they do, I'll never know. And they know I'll never know.  Now contrast to PrimeDice, which you do need to trust with the amount you deposit, whoever it's impossible for them to undetectable cheat you. This provides extra incentive for them to be honest.


Anyway, I'm sure i'm missing something as AFAICT it's strictly a step down from current bitcoin gambling?   (Disclaimer: I'm very unfamiliar with ethereum and greatly dislike it, so my reading of the contract is likely totally mistaken)

I don't understand. You're saying you trust centralized more than decentralized  Huh

We respectfully disagree. That's why we love blockchain.
That's why we made the world's 1st FULLY decentralized gambling platform.

There are technical arguments we both can make.
But I think people in Bitcoin forum understand why decentralization is important.

vDICE.io |     √ Processed 10,000 Bets     √ Ethereum Smart Contract (Dapp)
vDICE.io|                      The Crowdsale Object: ‘vSlice’ Token
vDICE.io |     √ Ethereum blockchain       √ ‘SatoshiDICE-style’ betting game
.|
 |
 |
15th Nov
ICO Open
15th Dec
MonsterV
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November 03, 2016, 12:57:33 PM
 #126

I also just noticed this thread yesterday. I was a bit sleepy but it did caught my attention. I like betting and investing in it as what I am currently doing. So this is a perfect opportunity for bettors and investors. Currently there are only few betting sites that accept investors so vDice is giving another room for people to join a unique betting site.

As I said before, most transactions cryptocurrency used in gambling Vdice.io will take part of it
perhaps this will provide an opportunity for investors so let's see this project I'll still be here  Smiley

EDGELESS.IO New Era Of Casino (0% Edge And Full Transparency) JOIN THE ICO | JOIN THE DISCUSSION
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November 03, 2016, 03:21:45 PM
 #127

Sorry to be an ass and repost this from another thread, but considering you are asking for a considerable amount of investor money, I think it's prudent to not dodge my technical concerns:


I don't understand. You're saying you trust centralized more than decentralized   Huh

We respectfully disagree. That's why we love blockchain.
That's why we made the world's 1st FULLY decentralized gambling platform.

There are technical arguments we both can make.
But I think people in Bitcoin forum understand why decentralization is important.

wth? If this is your serious reply, I'm starting to suspect another ICO scam coin. My concerns are laid out pretty straight forward:

* random.org  can cheat (by picking any number they want)
* cloudflare can cheat (by signing any number they want)
* oraclize can cheat, by calling random.org as many times as they want and picking the result they most like (or reusing results?)


And not only can they cheat, they can undetectable do so.  And you dodge the question with "You're saying you trust centralized more than decentralized   Huh"

which is beside the point, and I believe nonsense as you're calling centralized services. It's like call "untitled dice" decentralized, as it's a serverless gambling app -- but the reality is it uses a centralized service (moneypot). Same with yours, you might not need to run a server, but random.org, cloudflare and oraclize all need to.

bustabit.com :: The social bitcoin gambling site
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November 03, 2016, 03:28:32 PM
 #128

wth? If this is your serious reply, I'm starting to suspect another ICO scam coin.
I wouldn't jump to conclusions just because of a singular post, however I did read their answer earlier today and it did strike me as bit odd. They have no addressed a single thing laid out by you.

My concerns are laid out pretty straight forward:

* random.org  can cheat (by picking any number they want)
* cloudflare can cheat (by signing any number they want)
* oraclize can cheat, by calling random.org as many times as they want and picking the result they most like (or reusing results?)
Maybe you could post some references regarding how those services are exactly involved for those looking at this from the outside. I don't see either one of those cheating (maybe oraclize), but claiming *fully decentralized* would be wrong in that case.

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November 03, 2016, 03:40:57 PM
 #129

I also think the decision to put it in this section is because this project is on Gambling and you find more people in this section that are interested in Betting and Gambling, I have not seen any gambling or betting related topic in Alternative section
Really you can't see any?then i have to say you're a blind man.RBIES and the scam LIR(Let It Ride) are also a gambling related coin.But the topic is still in the ANN board.I don't want to show you the thread link because most of the people already know about this 2 coins which are a gambling coin.
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November 03, 2016, 03:43:32 PM
 #130

Maybe you could post some references regarding how those services are exactly involved for those looking at this from the outside. I don't see either one of those cheating (maybe oraclize), but claiming *fully decentralized* would be wrong in that case.

To be honest, I'm not very familiar with ethereum and its scripting. I just went through the contracts on etherscan.io and took educated guesses and googled for things. After spending a bit more time, I actually /think/ cloudflare might not be able to cheat, because the results appear to be signed from random.org (but I have trouble finding/checking  the code which verifies the signature, does it even exist?). My reading of the logic is that the TLS signature from cloudflare is checked, not the random.org signature, which if so, would allow cloudflare to cheat. But I very well might be wrong, as I said I'm not that familiar with this sort of thing

I don't really mean to accuse them of anything, they're just some concerns i have by reading their code. It'd be nice if they address the issue instead of side stepping it calling it "fully decentralized" which it obviously isn't. If you use a centralized service (oraclized), to call a centralized service (random.org) through a centralized service (cloudflare) done with a decentralized service (ethereum) it doesn't magically become fully decentralized.

bustabit.com :: The social bitcoin gambling site
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November 03, 2016, 05:20:31 PM
 #131

Here are some updated about news


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..vDice.
mybitcoin101
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November 04, 2016, 01:47:15 AM
 #132

I also think the decision to put it in this section is because this project is on Gambling and you find more people in this section that are interested in Betting and Gambling, I have not seen any gambling or betting related topic in Alternative section
Really you can't see any?then i have to say you're a blind man.RBIES and the scam LIR(Let It Ride) are also a gambling related coin.But the topic is still in the ANN board.I don't want to show you the thread link because most of the people already know about this 2 coins which are a gambling coin.

do not compare rbies to any of those scam coins. plus, if you open your eyes you will know there are a lot of gambling sites on a blockchain...keep learning son.

vdice...i have no opinion yet except that vidalikhisballs looks like a freak on the site.
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November 04, 2016, 01:49:28 AM
 #133

Sorry to be an ass and repost this from another thread, but considering you are asking for a considerable amount of investor money, I think it's prudent to not dodge my technical concerns:


I don't understand. You're saying you trust centralized more than decentralized   Huh

We respectfully disagree. That's why we love blockchain.
That's why we made the world's 1st FULLY decentralized gambling platform.

There are technical arguments we both can make.
But I think people in Bitcoin forum understand why decentralization is important.

wth? If this is your serious reply, I'm starting to suspect another ICO scam coin. My concerns are laid out pretty straight forward:

* random.org  can cheat (by picking any number they want)
* cloudflare can cheat (by signing any number they want)
* oraclize can cheat, by calling random.org as many times as they want and picking the result they most like (or reusing results?)


And not only can they cheat, they can undetectable do so.  And you dodge the question with "You're saying you trust centralized more than decentralized   Huh"

which is beside the point, and I believe nonsense as you're calling centralized services. It's like call "untitled dice" decentralized, as it's a serverless gambling app -- but the reality is it uses a centralized service (moneypot). Same with yours, you might not need to run a server, but random.org, cloudflare and oraclize all need to.


rhaver, you claim cheating is easy. go and cheat, drain the account and show us proof
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November 04, 2016, 05:59:47 AM
 #134

To be honest, I'm not very familiar with ethereum and its scripting.
Neither am I, that's why I'm eager to hear the developers address what you have to say.

rhaver, you claim cheating is easy. go and cheat, drain the account and show us proof
No, that does not seem the case. Rhaver is concerned that cheating is possible by several entities. When someone has concerns regarding the project, one naturally expects the developers to address these when possible.

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November 04, 2016, 08:32:04 AM
 #135

 Seems perfect project. I put a signature, joined to the twitter campaign. And we'll see ... maybe in the ICO would not hurt to take part. Waiting start crowdsale November 15th.

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November 04, 2016, 08:40:59 AM
 #136

Maybe you could post some references regarding how those services are exactly involved for those looking at this from the outside. I don't see either one of those cheating (maybe oraclize), but claiming *fully decentralized* would be wrong in that case.

To be honest, I'm not very familiar with ethereum and its scripting. I just went through the contracts on etherscan.io and took educated guesses and googled for things. After spending a bit more time, I actually /think/ cloudflare might not be able to cheat, because the results appear to be signed from random.org (but I have trouble finding/checking  the code which verifies the signature, does it even exist?). My reading of the logic is that the TLS signature from cloudflare is checked, not the random.org signature, which if so, would allow cloudflare to cheat. But I very well might be wrong, as I said I'm not that familiar with this sort of thing

I don't really mean to accuse them of anything, they're just some concerns i have by reading their code. It'd be nice if they address the issue instead of side stepping it calling it "fully decentralized" which it obviously isn't. If you use a centralized service (oraclized), to call a centralized service (random.org) through a centralized service (cloudflare) done with a decentralized service (ethereum) it doesn't magically become fully decentralized.


The game works and the code is well tested. You can review it. It's all public.
There is no need to be aggressive and start making wild, unfounded accusations. Let’s keep it civil please!

We have some of the finest developers in Ethereum on our team.
Our coders and game are live, working and can be verified. We are obviously legitimate.

Now, I have no idea why you are posting the same questions, over and over, in EVERY forum.  Huh

Requesting to kindly keep this just one forum.
It's really annoying to have to go and paste the same answer over and over again.

Anyway, these concerns are addressed in our 3rd Party Audit by Peter Vessenes.
You can read that here: https://blog.vdice.io/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/vdice_game_code_audit_october_2016.pdf

For his credentials as an auditor you can google him or go to his security blog: http://vessenes.com

That is on our website. Along with all other documentation.

As an addendum to the audit, in relation to Oraclize and Replay issue (which I am guessing you allude to):

The very reason why the authenticated JSON-RPC APIs of random.org are used, is because of the "requestsLeft" field which is returned by each API call response ( https://api.random.org/json-rpc/1/signing ). This field content is tied to the API credentials specified in the query and is there to indicate how many requests are left in a given day.

If we check all the TLSNotary proofs published on the blockchain (which contain the whole API response!), an independent auditor can verify whether any subsequent number in the "requestsLeft" fields is missing - when that happens, the auditor has a good indicator that something wrong happened (either on the Oraclize side - which sent more requests than expected - or by any external party knowing that specific API key (vDice itself & random.org)). Of course this doesn't say much about the intent in itself (can just be some failure in the HTTP request, which had to be sent again), but in general it provides some level of security against replay attacks.  


Otherwise, perhaps you are suggesting the oracle might have requested random numbers until a matching one >shows up? In which case:

Random.org JSON responses have a consecutive ID, so if we dropped some to advange ourselves in the game, by checking all of the bets and their respective responses it would be evident: at the end of the day, there would be some JSON responses missing, i.e ID 1, 2,3.. 5,6 present but 4 missing.

Further information on TLS notary:

With TLS notary (by the author of it in IRC), the third party has to keep the data to prevent the source from manipulating their data and making it seem as though your captured data is actually not authentic. In other words, a lying "I never said that!" from the webhost people.

It actually is secure because it is like when you browse to a HTTPS secure site, you are able to see provably that they are X company (if you inspect the certificates). TLS Notary is essentially able to record those bytes in such a way that you can play them back later so you can authenticate the bytes again! Very ingenious. (But the math of how it does this in the whitepaper goes above my head. https://tlsnotary.org/TLSNotary.pdf)

the notary server used at the moment is the default tlsnotarygroup1 notary - which is an "AWS oracle", as described here. So there is nobody having access to the secret, as you can easily verify indipendently by following these instructions and giving a look at the actual code for the pagesigner-oracles.

There are some great videos explaining this further. Here is one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4ukd4I8S9A

I could go on forever about this. But, as I said before, it is an issue of centralization v decentralization.

vDice is fully decentralized in that there is no server architecture. There are 3rd party providers that do run some server architecture. But they are not part of vDice directly. They just give it what it needs. So, vDice is still serverless.

vDICE.io |     √ Processed 10,000 Bets     √ Ethereum Smart Contract (Dapp)
vDICE.io|                      The Crowdsale Object: ‘vSlice’ Token
vDICE.io |     √ Ethereum blockchain       √ ‘SatoshiDICE-style’ betting game
.|
 |
 |
15th Nov
ICO Open
15th Dec
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November 04, 2016, 08:42:59 AM
 #137

Hacked.com Feature Piece on vDice is Live!

https://hacked.com/vdice-io-the-worlds-first-full-decentralized-gambling-platform-ethereum-or-blockchain-tech/

vDice.io, launched in June as the 1st FULLY decentralized gambling game.

Running on the first programmable P2P network, vDice will host a crowdsale from Nov. 15 - Dec. 15.
In exchange for Ether (ETH), investors will receive “vSlice” tokens, each of which is directly tied to the profits of the game.

The “vSlice” token will regularly distribute profits of the vDice game to token holders.


vDICE.io |     √ Processed 10,000 Bets     √ Ethereum Smart Contract (Dapp)
vDICE.io|                      The Crowdsale Object: ‘vSlice’ Token
vDICE.io |     √ Ethereum blockchain       √ ‘SatoshiDICE-style’ betting game
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15th Nov
ICO Open
15th Dec
mybitcoin101
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November 04, 2016, 10:46:33 AM
 #138

 

rhaver, you claim cheating is easy. go and cheat, drain the account and show us proof
No, that does not seem the case. Rhaver is concerned that cheating is possible by several entities. When someone has concerns regarding the project, one naturally expects the developers to address these when possible.
[/quote]

good point. i stand to be corrected
V1saya
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November 04, 2016, 12:52:15 PM
 #139

Hello vDice are we also planning to put faucet in the site?

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tair85
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November 04, 2016, 01:29:19 PM
 #140

Watched with interest the rapid development of the project, enjoy the game as the theme always attracts a lot of money.
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