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Author Topic: FREE BITCOINS -- Environmentally conscious mining!  (Read 12311 times)
BombaUcigasa
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June 14, 2011, 02:00:20 PM
 #21

not much snow in Romania in winter?[sorry for asking, buy i never been in Romania "in person"]
if so, update solar panels with cleaning machinery and/or use snow-proof installation[cost some power efficiency, usually].
or try diversify power supply between TYPES of generation, like add few vertical wind turbines or even build geothermal power station[thats more expensive, but have longer TTL].
It's similar to Chicago in weather, if you live in the USA. I intend to use a steel mesh net to protect against large diameter hale (very rare, but very large), and for snow I have to either wait for the sun to shine long enough to melt the snow (remember that the cells absorb photon energy, even visible rays have a heating effect) or use a flipping mount which can rotate to dust off the snow from time to time. As explained in the first post, wind turbines are needed since they're cheap and low maintenance and I have plenty of space to plant them.

I know there will be extremes (like cloudy snowy but calm winter days and very bright and windy summer days) and I can only hope to level those off with some batteries, emergency grid hopping or even using a petrol generator in case of black-outs. I don't know yet if it's more important to run at higher capacity and shut down when out of power, or gradually reduce usage to have uninterrupted uptime.
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andrew_jacksun
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June 14, 2011, 06:50:01 PM
 #22

wind power?  how are those rare earth metals environmentally concious?
just sayin...

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bitcoinminer
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June 15, 2011, 02:48:27 AM
 #23

wind power?  how are those rare earth metals environmentally concious?
just sayin...

Because they are dug out of the ground using chariots pulled by dolphins!

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mellowhead
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June 15, 2011, 03:06:20 AM
 #24

It's similar to Chicago in weather, if you live in the USA. I intend to use a steel mesh net to protect against large diameter hale (very rare, but very large), and for snow I have to either wait for the sun to shine long enough to melt the snow (remember that the cells absorb photon energy, even visible rays have a heating effect) or use a flipping mount which can rotate to dust off the snow from time to time.

It's probably not a good idea to put a mesh over them full time. It will definitely reduce your output by shading the cells. Any crystalline module (the ones most commonly available) will have greatly reduced output with only part of one cell shaded. It has to do with the way each cell works and the fact that they are connected in series. I would suggest that you only cover them when absolutely necessary. Most name-brand glass-faced panels are rated for hailstones up to 1 inch diameter. I don't know what size hail you get there, but if it's larger than that and relatively infrequent, covering them only when there's a chance of hail will get you better ROI than having a mesh over them.

As for snow, it's much easier to use a snow rake than to tip panels around when they're covered in heavy snow. Also more cost effective than buying movable mounts.
See here for a low cost snow rake: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iG0ipbXxfZs

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BombaUcigasa
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June 15, 2011, 09:01:31 AM
 #25

It's probably not a good idea to put a mesh over them full time. It will definitely reduce your output by shading the cells. Any crystalline module (the ones most commonly available) will have greatly reduced output with only part of one cell shaded. It has to do with the way each cell works and the fact that they are connected in series. I would suggest that you only cover them when absolutely necessary. Most name-brand glass-faced panels are rated for hailstones up to 1 inch diameter. I don't know what size hail you get there, but if it's larger than that and relatively infrequent, covering them only when there's a chance of hail will get you better ROI than having a mesh over them.
I was thinking about chicken wire, it's not that bad, it only cuts out some of the incident light, and adds protection against floating debris and birds.



Remember I won't be on-location to keep things clean all the time. We had hailstones of over 4 inches once. Again, very rare, but very large. Usually it's no bigger than a nail but we had a year where half the village experienced see-through roofs after a storm. As for the snow, maybe a few small mirrors mounted near the top of the panels could be enough to create a melting spot.

wind power?  how are those rare earth metals environmentally concious?
just sayin...
I already have some lower quality ones, or I'll use some recycled alternator parts or something. I will promise you to keep away from buying new shiny Chinese neodymium magnets Cheesy
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June 15, 2011, 11:18:15 AM
 #26

so, you can cross-out solar-power as power supply options in that OTX/Region.
thats why you shouldn't be surprised by "natural resources boom" as much as anyone need power and comfort as well as engineering power, need for both this power creation, and other technical options in different areas of human activity.
this all and cheap energy&cold climate make Russia far more interesting option as well as Scandinavian countries.
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June 15, 2011, 01:08:49 PM
 #27

Interesting project

(I dont always get new reply notifications, pls send a pm when you think it has happened)

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June 15, 2011, 01:13:17 PM
 #28

Interesting project
yep.
pack it with AMD/SUN/HP/Siemens "datacenter in container" concept/products, backup by small termoelectric power[geothermal or nuke-powered], deploy/build/re-cycle underground shelter for it and here you go.
mellowhead
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June 15, 2011, 05:14:05 PM
 #29

If large hail is really that much of a concern, I suggest using panels like this:

http://www.mostpowerfulroof.com

They have nothing to break with any size hailstone, and are flexible. You can walk on them, you can mount them to a curved surface, and they are easier to install because you can just "stick" them to a surface, as opposed to building a structure or rack specifically for your solar panels.

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BombaUcigasa
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June 15, 2011, 06:00:21 PM
 #30

If large hail is really that much of a concern, I suggest using panels like this:

http://www.mostpowerfulroof.com

They have nothing to break with any size hailstone, and are flexible. You can walk on them, you can mount them to a curved surface, and they are easier to install because you can just "stick" them to a surface, as opposed to building a structure or rack specifically for your solar panels.

Apparently they are hard to find and cost about 10$/W. I know they are quantum-dot thin layer polymer dyes, but they do not bring the efficiency high enough to explain why the custom built panels cost only 1$/W.
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June 15, 2011, 09:19:46 PM
 #31

Seems like an even less profitable endeavor than simply mining in a place that already has walls, internet, and electricity. Not only do you have to pay for the hardware like other miners, but you have to build a place, pay large up front costs per kW to set up solar and wind generation.

If you are efficient, 2kW  will get you around 1,100 (+ or - $200) a month, but that rate will only last for the first 10 days starting now. By the time you got this set up it would probably be more like $300/month in revenue. But you'd have dropped like 5 - 8K in setting it up. It would take you two or more years to break even at today's exchange rate. Then you'd have to pay for internet, and gas to go there every couple of weeks. I'm sure there are other random costs as well that haven't been mentioned yet. The only way this makes any sense is if you plan to hold the bitcoins in hopes that the price increases.
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June 15, 2011, 11:15:17 PM
 #32

This is an awesome idea and I would love to see it happen. However, I'm not sure it's cost-effective. Definitely would not be in the short term. May not be in the long-term, depending on what the market does, but I guess that's the risk we're all taking here. Assuming Bitcoin doesn't die, and assuming the cost of running this operation really is $0 (no property taxes or internet fees?) then I imagine this operation would eventually become somewhat profitable. May be worth doing it for its own sake. Would have to be if you did it, since you'd see much bigger returns sooner by simply buying bitcoins with the money or investing in a solid company.

On the positive side you'd definitely be able to weather the inevitable mining squeezes.
mellowhead
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June 15, 2011, 11:18:51 PM
 #33

Realistically, it is not a money making endeavor to supply power with renewable energy. Bomba's calculations may be a bit off in cost and in payback for a system of this scale, but I like to think of it as more of a fun project than a money making one. And honestly, unless you're using homemade solar panels and used/homemade pretty much everything else, you're probably looking at a fair bit more money to set up. To do it properly, at least.

For a more economical solution, you could look at doing a grid-tie system without batteries. This affords you the electricity savings of whatever you generate, plus the convenience of having grid power when your renewables are not producing enough to keep up with the load. The grid effectively "is your battery".

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ryepdx
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June 15, 2011, 11:39:15 PM
 #34

Realistically, it is not a money making endeavor to supply power with renewable energy. Bomba's calculations may be a bit off in cost and in payback for a system of this scale, but I like to think of it as more of a fun project than a money making one.

Okay, as long as there are no illusions.  Smiley

For a more economical solution, you could look at doing a grid-tie system without batteries. This affords you the electricity savings of whatever you generate, plus the convenience of having grid power when your renewables are not producing enough to keep up with the load. The grid effectively "is your battery".

+1
BombaUcigasa
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June 16, 2011, 08:16:23 AM
 #35

To answer your concerns, no property taxes, the internet would be something like 10-20$ a month (GPRS/EDGE 1-5Gb at 2Mb/s), purchase most of the stuff as "used" but still relatively new, including solar panels, wind turbines, equipment, batteries, PC boards and accessories except the PSUs of course. Except for the batteries, everything else that is in good shape can be resold for about 80% of it's acquisition price in less than 2 years. Also the alternative energy equipment can be subsidized and remain in the possession of the owner. As for the costs, solar cells are about 1$/W (make it 2$/W for the extras you need around them), a wind turbine varies greatly from 1$/W to 5$/W and batteries are 3$/Wh. Solar panels offer a great output during the day, none at night, and the wind varies dramatically (luckily it will be present when the sun isn't). The batteries allow me to level off usage and create less stress on the components. Part of why this seems attractive to me is that I won't basically need cooling costs or they will be very little. Some other bitcoin users might participate in trading with me, or use parts of my projects, or I use parts of theirs.

I assume I will get 2.0Mhash/J boards, and with the efficiency losses and common energy drains we can assume 1.0Mhash/J. So for a 1000W solar (output from 500W a day to 2000W a day), 1000W wind (realistically 300W to 700W a day), a battery bank of about 1000Wh, I get to pay 5000$ for an average output of 800-1000W daily. Current power costs are 0.13$/kWh, and are scheduled to increase (thanks e-on). I would be spending 84$ a month to use the power grid, so I need 5 years to recoup the investment, after that I get free energy for the next 15 years. This is of course assuming that the bitcoin project is running and I can sell bitcoins for more than they cost to make. Worst case scenario, I lose 20-30% of my investment and 100% of my hobby time. Best case scenario, the bitcoin parity for market/production ratio remains at 10:1 and I can recoup the investment in half a year.



There are no sell-back plans or arrangements available with the power company, not many people have stable alternative energy sources. There might be funds or programs or bonuses for implementing ecological projects like this. I could use the GPU power for other projects if they have decent rewards. The time when bitcoin will increase the world's power usage significantly will come. I'm also covered in case of a zombie apocalypse or economic meltdown.

All in all I want to be the guy that answers the question: Well bitcoin is just made out of thin air, right? YES, that is correct!
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June 16, 2011, 08:35:49 AM
 #36

Maybe you could even sell your Bitcoins at a premium like "sun-grown" oranges. Wink
"Sure, they cost 50% more than what you would pay at Mt. Gox but mine were mined without releasing CO2!"

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June 16, 2011, 08:45:07 PM
 #37

Nice project!  Cheesy
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June 16, 2011, 09:19:21 PM
 #38

I love this idea.I hope to create an "eco-generator" which consists of battery banks,solar,wind turbine plus a diesel backup generator run on used veg oil (as there's no way I'm payin 4 diesel)

I duno how I'm gonna go about it but it'll b complex I think as this intergrates a switcher between solar,wind and a diesel generator to charge the battery banks which then go through an inverter to run my gear.


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June 16, 2011, 09:23:43 PM
 #39

I love this idea.I hope to create an "eco-generator" which consists of battery banks,solar,wind turbine plus a diesel backup generator run on used veg oil (as there's no way I'm payin 4 diesel)

I duno how I'm gonna go about it but it'll b complex I think as this intergrates a switcher between solar,wind and a diesel generator to charge the battery banks which then go through an inverter to run my gear.


I design these systems for a living. I would trade my services for btc. Cheesy

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BombaUcigasa
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June 16, 2011, 09:59:54 PM
 #40

I love this idea.I hope to create an "eco-generator" which consists of battery banks,solar,wind turbine plus a diesel backup generator run on used veg oil (as there's no way I'm payin 4 diesel)

I duno how I'm gonna go about it but it'll b complex I think as this intergrates a switcher between solar,wind and a diesel generator to charge the battery banks which then go through an inverter to run my gear.
The problem with the generator is it's power is 10 times more costly than grid power. Burning a different octane fuel will require more maintenance. I think I'll pass the generator and instead use graceful degradation (lower power usage by underclocking/stopping the miners/shutting down components) and resume performance when energy is generated. Don't forget if you run out of battery power, you will lose heat from the GPUs and your batteries might freeze (at -15C or lower) because they will be discharged.

Also, another trend is solar panels micro-inverters (for each panel, you get the bonus of smart monitoring) which means you need to add more stuff and decrease conversion rates.
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