Decentralised Gambling Game vDice Announces Crowdsale

[RHavar]

First of all, I think what you're doing is incredibly cool from a technology point of view. I think it's awesome you guys are pushing forward on that front.

The Smart Contract is what requires reputation. As you are sending your bet Tx only to that. So it is reputation of code, NOT people.
This trivially duplicated argument for code is pointless. Bitcoin can be "trivially duplicated" too. Just ask Charlie Lee. An experience is more than just its code base.

That's really not remotely comparable. Let's say I make a copy of bitcoin, it has little to no for anyone because it's not bitcoin or interoperable with it and doesn't enjoy the network effect, blah blah blah.

But now let's take a smart contract gambling service, let's say I duplicate it and change your 1.9% house edge to 0.1%. Which I can sanely do, because I don't have any development or operating costs. Now from a users point of view, they are two services which have the exact reputation and trust required (same code) but one means they will lose 19 times less on average. I personally would gamble on the 0.1% edge on, I guess you're counting on people like me being in the minority?

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[1713998593]

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[1713998593]

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[maku]

If people would like this concept of decentralized casinos - even despite its restrictions. So this mean we might see era of cloned smart contract casino application from now on?
Gambling apps where the only difference is House Edge? And another question - is it really secure? I mean The DAO was hacked...

[dogedice.me]

And as soon as you will even think about regulation, you will have to close it as AML\KYC will require full due diligence and funds seizure. So again, better pivot right now.

Is it even possible to regulate decentralized casino like that? I mean it is smart contract - a script working in a blockchain, with not owner behind it.
Isn't regulating service like that quite impossible with out current laws?

That's exactly what I'm talking about. It means that there's zero chance they will get any license.

Regards,
Alex.

Incorrect. And also, a lack of understanding of smart contract operations. Nice handle BTW.  

Guys, I'm not against you, just give my opinion on it.

I perfectly understand smart contracts and their limitations. However what's more important I also understand legal implications of such business. Money laundering and terrorism financial. And when such operations will go through your contract, you\your company will be the one who will be prosecuted. And when it comes to AML\CFT general prosecutor will not give a damn how smart-contract works, you and your actions allowed bad guys to do what they did. Period. Currently there's no legal framework, there's no precedent and such situations plays against all the players. Legal institutes treat the technology on their own understanding.

That's was the worst part And I really hope nobody will get into such situations. On the other hand there's great perspective for such developers as you are. Smart contracts is the future of FinTech and demand will only raise. You can easily put your experience on solving real FinTech problems and earn a lot of money with it.

Regards,
Alex

[vdice_io]

First of all, I think what you're doing is incredibly cool from a technology point of view. I think it's awesome you guys are pushing forward on that front.

The Smart Contract is what requires reputation. As you are sending your bet Tx only to that. So it is reputation of code, NOT people.
This trivially duplicated argument for code is pointless. Bitcoin can be "trivially duplicated" too. Just ask Charlie Lee. An experience is more than just its code base.

That's really not remotely comparable. Let's say I make a copy of bitcoin, it has little to no for anyone because it's not bitcoin or interoperable with it and doesn't enjoy the network effect, blah blah blah.

But now let's take a smart contract gambling service, let's say I duplicate it and change your 1.9% house edge to 0.1%. Which I can sanely do, because I don't have any development or operating costs. Now from a users point of view, they are two services which have the exact reputation and trust required (same code) but one means they will lose 19 times less on average. I personally would gamble on the 0.1% edge on, I guess you're counting on people like me being in the minority?

We get this sort of stuff a lot. Which is surprising to me. I never hear this stuff levelled at other software engineering teams working with open code-bases.

It's come to the point where all I can really say is, do it! We've been keeping an Ethereum Dapp live and working for a while now. We know what it takes. And we are very confident it needs a pretty damn significant team of professionals. Run a Dapp and you will see.

We're 2 years into Ethereum and we're the only live, functional, working, production gambling Dapp of this kind.

So, if it were that easy. Wouldn't someone have done it already? I really hope you or someone does do it. We'd love to work with you / whoever pulls it off.

That's not even getting into all the none engineering work it takes to grow a brand, etc, etc.

[vdice_io]

If people would like this concept of decentralized casinos - even despite its restrictions. So this mean we might see era of cloned smart contract casino application from now on?
Gambling apps where the only difference is House Edge? And another question - is it really secure? I mean The DAO was hacked...

It's a new paradigm for sure. And we're at the very beginning of it.

It's about the database processing this stuff.
Can an open blockchain database like Ethereum be as quick and cost efficient as a centralised one?

If so, why use a centralised one if you're a player?

That is, if the decentralized one is as efficient, fast, well designed etc., etc.
You can just interact with the decentralized one and not have to deposit anywhere. Just play straight from your wallet. Don't have to trust anyone.

We've already got on-blockchain bet Tx down to 3-5 seconds. This blew even us away (on Morden test-net).

Cost and speed are just gonna keep getting more efficient.
And Ethereum pace of development is FAST. This is all happening super quick.

You don't need too much vision to see where this is going.

View Phase III of our dev. roadmap here:
https://blog.vdice.io/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/vDice_Development_Roadmap.pdf

We anticipate a lot of developers writing these smart contract gambling dapps soon. The rewards will be great for them.
But it will be too costly and time consuming for them to run the things, ongoing. So, we'll be the home for them...as we build out the brand.

The DAO was WAY too ambitious for where Ethereum is at. There codebase was enormous and complex.

Ours codebase is super short and is orders of magnitude simpler. Simplicity is the friend of security. We like simplicity.  

[vdice_io]

All we're doing is taking what Classic SatoshiDICE started.

Then going to the next level of decentralization...

http://crowdsale.vdice.io

[vdice_io]

vDice ICO Update - Code Audit - October 21st

This ICO update October 21st covers the vDice game code audits.

The vDice Crowdsale (ICO) is soon. It starts November 15th.

Code audits are important. Code must be secure.

Making secure Dapps for Ethereum is our job. We do it well.




vDice Code Audits - ICO Update October 21st
vDice is one of the most popular Dapps. vDice is secure.

We show how strong and secure is vDice code.

We work with Peter Vessenes.

Peter has been in blockchain forever. He is one of the most respected security people. Peter knows code. Peter knows security and blockchain.

Peter is a big fan of Ethereum. Read his important contributions to Ethereum here.

All the top developers in Ethereum know Peter's work.

Peter is a big fan of vDice. He was very happy to Audit the vDice game code.

Click Here for the full Audit of the vDice game code by Peter Vessenes.

Peter is also auditing the code for our ICO.



vDice ICO Logo - vSlice
This is the vSlice logo above.

The vDice token is called vSlice. This is an important token. It is the token for one of the most important Dapps in Ethereum ; vDice.

Hold the vSlice token and get your slice of vDice profits. Or trade it on leading exchanges.

Coming Soon...
In the coming updates:

• The ICO Code.
• The ICO Code Audits.
• Exchange Partnerships.

Follow our social media and ICO website to stay informed.

[eternalgloom]

This is definitely one of the most interesting gambling related projects I've seen in a long time.
Would this be the first decentralized crypto gambling site out there?

[vdice_io]

This is definitely one of the most interesting gambling related projects I've seen in a long time.
Would this be the first decentralized crypto gambling site out there?

The first fully decentralized one, yes.

There have been blockchain gambling games on Bitcoin.
SatoshiDICE was the first. It was very successful. But it was not fully decentralized.

There was still a server doing the randomness.

With the power of Ethereum and Smart Contracts we have now made this fully decentralized. No server architecture processing bets at all!

- vDice.

[bet365guru]

"We are at least 18 months ahead of the competition right now"

What supports this claim?  How old is this site?

edit;

Just checked and the last bet was over 26 hours ago.

lol, haha, it is called hype in ico, to make more money from ico. The dev is ok, one of the original ethereum team member.

[vdice_io]

"We are at least 18 months ahead of the competition right now"

What supports this claim?  How old is this site?

edit;

Just checked and the last bet was over 26 hours ago.

lol, haha, it is called hype in ico, to make more money from ico. The dev is ok, one of the original ethereum team member.

That's not true at all. This is taken from our development roadmap:-
https://blog.vdice.io/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/vDice_Development_Roadmap.pdf

Specifically we refer you to:

a.  "Nested" Datasource & Partially Encrypted Queries:-
b.  Multi-TLSN Servers.
II. Vanguard Phase
i). ‘0-Conf’ Precomputation.
ii). New Proofs.
iii) Status Page for vDice Administration.

We are serious developers and we know what we are doing.
That is why we have built an launched the world's 1st Fully Decentralized gambling game and made it live.

While others write whitepapers, we deliver and launch production ready code. 

[maku]

This is definitely one of the most interesting gambling related projects I've seen in a long time.
Would this be the first decentralized crypto gambling site out there?

FunCasino marketed itself as first decentralized Bitcoin casino.
I don't know exactly specifics and technical aspects, but they hyped the fact that they are decentralized in some way.

They have a thread on bitcointak also  you can see this announcement post here: https://forum.bitcoin.com/gambling/fun-casino-first-decentralized-bitcoin-casino-t8403.html

[vdice_io]

This is definitely one of the most interesting gambling related projects I've seen in a long time.
Would this be the first decentralized crypto gambling site out there?

FunCasino marketed itself as first decentralized Bitcoin casino.
I don't know exactly specifics and technical aspects, but they hyped the fact that they are decentralized in some way.

They have a thread on bitcointak also  you can see this announcement post here: https://forum.bitcoin.com/gambling/fun-casino-first-decentralized-bitcoin-casino-t8403.html

FULL decentralisation is not possible with bitcoin. You need smart contracts and oracles. Sorry.

[SparkedDev]

Wrong section but ill take a look at the article.

[vdice_io]

Wrong section but ill take a look at the article.

Cool.

Also, check out this one:
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/ethereum-developers-re-imagine-betting/

[puremage111]

One question, how success will Vdice crowdfunding be?

If it is successful, what makes it successful?

Thanks

[vdice_io]

One question, how success will Vdice crowdfunding be?

If it is successful, what makes it successful?

Thanks

vDice is the world's 1st FULLY decentralized gambling platform.

It is already live!
It works and is processing bets on the Ethereum network.

So, it is already successful.

Others make promises and whitepapers. We deliver secure, production ready code.

The market will now decide what that is worth. And, the success of the crowdsale.
That is the job of the free market

The crowdsale is the way to proceed with our development roadmap here:
https://blog.vdice.io/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/vDice_Development_Roadmap.pdf

The crowdsale is successful if the full vision of decentralized gambling, on the blockchain, is realized.

Read the roadmap and you will see full details.

[RHavar]

vDice is the world's 1st FULLY decentralized gambling platform.

Is it really? In your contact code, I see references to api.random.org

At that point, is it really FULLY decentralized? And is there any mechanism to stop random.org cheating your investors, or is the assumption that they should trust random.org ? And what about gamblers? Do they need to trust random.org?


Anyway, you should also create a "technical description" that explain in high level how it exactly works, and the trust model. As it almost seems incongruent to call it "fully decentralized" and "only trust the blockchain" and have API calls to that are hitting a centralized and non-provably fair server, random.org

[RHavar]

So looking a bit deeper into this, it seems even more concerning. My understanding is that the player will need to trust

* random.org
* cloudflare
* oraclize

As the code doesn't appear to be using random.org's sequences (?), so there's no way to check how many times random.org was asked for random numbers. It just checks that random.org gave a result. It can give any result it wants, and there's no guarantees (unlike a provably fair scheme). But worse, is this means oraclize can ask it as many times as it wants. But the TLS layer is done by cloudflare, so you also need to trust them (they can change the result if they want). There's probably no problem trusting all 3 (?!) parties, but the problem I see is if one of them cheats, it's 100% undetectable.

Now contrast this to going to a bitcoin gambling site, say PrimeDice:

* I deposit money
* I play using a proper dedicated interface, and have instant bets
* I check my results
* I withdraw


So in the vdice case, I'm trusting 3 parties who can cheat me (?) but if they do, I'll never know. And they know I'll never know.  Now contrast to PrimeDice, which you do need to trust with the amount you deposit, however it's impossible for them to undetectable cheat you. This provides extra incentive for them to be honest.


Anyway, I'm sure i'm missing something as AFAICT it's strictly a step down from current bitcoin gambling?   (Disclaimer: I'm very unfamiliar with ethereum and greatly dislike it, so my reading of the contract is likely totally mistaken)

[vdice_io]

So looking a bit deeper into this, it seems even more concerning. My understanding is that the player will need to trust

* random.org
* cloudflare
* oraclize

As the code doesn't appear to be using random.org's sequences (?), so there's no way to check how many times random.org was asked for random numbers. It just checks that random.org gave a result. It can give any result it wants, and there's no guarantees (unlike a provably fair scheme). But worse, is this means oraclize can ask it as many times as it wants. But the TLS layer is done by cloudflare, so you also need to trust them (they can change the result if they want). There's probably no problem trusting all 3 (?!) parties, but the problem I see is if one of them cheats, it's 100% undetectable.

Now contrast this to going to a bitcoin gambling site, say PrimeDice:

* I deposit money
* I play using a proper dedicated interface, and have instant bets
* I check my results
* I withdraw


So in the vdice case, I'm trusting 3 parties who can cheat me (?) but if they do, I'll never know. And they know I'll never know.  Now contrast to PrimeDice, which you do need to trust with the amount you deposit, whoever it's impossible for them to undetectable cheat you. This provides extra incentive for them to be honest.


Anyway, I'm sure i'm missing something as AFAICT it's strictly a step down from current bitcoin gambling?   (Disclaimer: I'm very unfamiliar with ethereum and greatly dislike it, so my reading of the contract is likely totally mistaken)

I don't understand. You're saying you trust centralized more than decentralized   

We respectfully disagree. That's why we love blockchain.
That's why we made the world's 1st FULLY decentralized gambling platform.

There are technical arguments we both can make.
But I think people in Bitcoin forum understand why decentralization is important.