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Author Topic: Why are UK bitcoin buying options disappearing  (Read 10649 times)
moni3z
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April 02, 2013, 08:45:10 PM
 #21

UK is a mess, need plenty of expensive money transfer licenses to do anything there hence why no direct cash 3rd party deposits allowed. Fraud is epic, so can't accept any soft bank transfers like CHAPS or FPS which cost 25GBP for just a domestic transfer through barclay's anyways.

Cheapest option (besides localbitcoins) is Money PoloUK it's around $20 to send a $1000USD transfer to your Okpay account, or somebody else's Okpay account depending on exchange rate. Can also withdraw from your Okpay account to Money Polo as well.

I would load up my Okpay account with Money Polo, then withdraw immediately in bitcoins from the Okpay wallet because they offer realtime BTC/USD goxrate, sell those for cash locally or approach some guy who has an existing currency exchange storefront in a major city there, and convince him to accept cash over the counter payments from customers for your bitcoins. He already has a money transfer license so good to go.

If somebody wanted to takeover MtGox GBP like Coinlab did for USD it's wide open if you can figure out something over there that won't be shut down and have a few million or so for setting up corporate Isle of Man banks and employing F/T FCA compliant officers.
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flug
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April 02, 2013, 08:56:02 PM
 #22

I've used localbitcoins.com to buy bitcoins in the UK, via bank transfer/escrow.
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April 02, 2013, 09:43:11 PM
 #23

Your best bet is to use www.transferwise.com to convert and move GBP to MTGOX SEPA EUR account, and trade in EUR.

I've seen where Mt. Gox only accepts bank transfers if it comes from your own account (and not a commercial account like Transferwise).  Are you able to perform this SEPA transfer method from Transferwise to Mt. Gox and they take it?


There is no problem with doing this, as Transferwise are licensed by the FSA and HMRC, so they are seen as part of the financial trail. I have used Transferwise 3 times to move funds to MTGOX: GBP to EUR SEPA. Both Transferwise & MTGOX are totally aware and happy with each other. It's the best way.
WikileaksDude
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April 02, 2013, 09:43:56 PM
 #24

www.bitcoinuk.blogspot.com

^check it

jago25_98
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April 02, 2013, 11:34:15 PM
 #25

bitcoinuk.blogspot.com

^check it

Seems people have latched onto my Transferwise tip! :-) Glad to see. And also glad to see the way to withdraw also documented - just go direct

Crypto supporter!
Stephen Gornick
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April 03, 2013, 05:27:02 AM
 #26

I have used Transferwise 3 times to move funds to MTGOX: GBP to EUR SEPA. Both Transferwise & MTGOX are totally aware and happy with each other.

I wonder if it matters if your Mt. Gox account is verified or not.  So just to clarify you are moving EUR via SEPA to Mt. Gox (bank in Poland).  And your account is verified status (AML Level 1)?
 - https://support.mtgox.com/entries/20919111-AML-Account-Statuses

Mike Hearn
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April 03, 2013, 10:49:43 AM
 #27

Does anyone know precisely how much it would cost to become a licensed exchange in the UK? The max fees the former FSA charged seemed to be on the order of 25k but that was for "complex cases". If your case wasn't deemed "complex" it'd be lower.

Whilst 25k blown just on a first round of regulatory licensing is a pretty intense cost, stacked up against employee time, office rent and server resources it's probably NOT the largest cost for someone who wants to build a serious exchange. And once you're licensed I would hope that banks give you a much easier time. UK has same-day domestic wires, does it not? So once set up it should be a good place to do trading.

Until then, localbitcoins style agent networks seem like the only way to go. Once you found an agent and have developed a trust relationship, you can use PayPal or the like to buy coins. The trader has to deal with the slow/expensive wires to and from Japan, but they can amortize those costs. I guess as long as the agents aren't doing it as a business then they'd fall below the standard thresholds that trigger licensing requirements.
contemptx
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April 03, 2013, 06:07:45 PM
 #28

In short with the fees associated with becoming compliant which include, licenses, bond deposits, solicitors, office space, development & all the rest of it...

Your looking at a minimum investment of about £100,000
moni3z
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April 03, 2013, 06:27:15 PM
 #29

Does anyone know precisely how much it would cost to become a licensed exchange in the UK? The max fees the former FSA charged seemed to be on the order of 25k but that was for "complex cases". If your case wasn't deemed "complex" it'd be lower.

Whilst 25k blown just on a first round of regulatory licensing is a pretty intense cost, stacked up against employee time, office rent and server resources it's probably NOT the largest cost for someone who wants to build a serious exchange. And once you're licensed I would hope that banks give you a much easier time. UK has same-day domestic wires, does it not? So once set up it should be a good place to do trading.

Until then, localbitcoins style agent networks seem like the only way to go. Once you found an agent and have developed a trust relationship, you can use PayPal or the like to buy coins. The trader has to deal with the slow/expensive wires to and from Japan, but they can amortize those costs. I guess as long as the agents aren't doing it as a business then they'd fall below the standard thresholds that trigger licensing requirements.

Find a UK lawyer and ask them, there are plenty of FSA incorporation/registration sites in the UK all charging various gigantic fees and you need to hire F/T local compliance officers, plus I don't think FSA is a good enough license you probably need the full money transfer license which is a complete racket in the UK to crush all competition, since it's a global hub for transfers. Unless you are a billionaire Russian oligarch with connections to corrupt Lords to put in a good word with the FSA office forget it.

You could also just set up in Europe and run a local UK payment gateway to accept debit and bank transfers but lot's of fraud, and you'd need a huge slush fund to cover liquidity while you're waiting for the gateway to settle to your account, which typically takes a week but some are 2-3days. They also don't want anything to do with bitcoin. I wrote a completely automated system in haskell that used the API from thecurrencycloud.com to accept and process GBP payments that worked flawlessly then at last minute their correspondent banks shut the account down because they read about Bitcoin being associated with drugs. Alas.
M25
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April 03, 2013, 06:47:00 PM
 #30

I'm selling BTC, my main advert is here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=144886.0

However I only accept cash as loads of funds going in and out of a bank account is too risky.

Meet ups near M25 Junction 25 (Enfield), Herts/Middx/Essex area. Have many customers from London.
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May 11, 2013, 05:43:55 PM
 #31

BitBargain was mentioned once as "selling for +10 GBP".

Currently the cheapest option is only approx 2 GBP above Mt.Gox. If you're in the UK and looking to buy bitcoins quickly via bank transfer and don't want to take a big risk in getting scammed, always take a look at https://bitbargain.co.uk/ first.

The actual price depends on supply vs demand, really. Any time the price elevates or drops very quickly, the margin will grow. After some period of stability, margins will go lower and lower.

Here's the actual graph (green stuff = mt.gox price, yellow line = bitbargain, space between the two = margins)








Trusted UK Bitcoin Marketplace @ https://bitbargain.co.uk/
alyssa85
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May 11, 2013, 06:30:05 PM
 #32

Get yourself a verified paypal account, and then when withdrawing fiat, you can use bitinstant to withdraw from mtgox to paypal. You can then withdraw from paypal to your bank account.

Sending fiat money to mtgox is more problematic. Look into an e exchanger that will put money into a liberty reserve account, which then goes into mtgox.

BitcoinUK
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May 11, 2013, 07:32:52 PM
 #33

the issues in the UK are not to do with banks hating bitcoin, but banks hating people that don't follow regulation guidelines in regards to FIAT. such as Amir Taaki who is a known hater of government rules that never got FSA regulated with his intersango business.

now he is living as a squatter in some office building somewhere
owenprescott
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May 11, 2013, 07:38:22 PM
 #34

the issues in the UK are not to do with banks hating bitcoin, but banks hating people that don't follow regulation guidelines in regards to FIAT. such as Amir Taaki who is a known hater of government rules that never got FSA regulated with his intersango business.

now he is living as a squatter in some office building somewhere

Funny how the regulators turn blind eyes on the banks yet manage to be very capable at disrupting new services in the UK.
shields
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May 11, 2013, 07:58:30 PM
 #35

I'm in Ireland and have been using the German site www.bitcoin.de to buy coins recently. I've done 6 smallish transactions (none greater than 1 btc) in the last 2 weeks and they've all been fine. It uses direct SEPA transfers to the seller with a reputation system so maybe it's more friendly to use with UK banks since you don't have to  transfer to a known exchange bank A/C

If you liked this post -> 1KRYhandiYsjecZw7mtdLnoeuKUYoGRkH4
BitcoinUK
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May 11, 2013, 08:34:14 PM
 #36

the issues in the UK are not to do with banks hating bitcoin, but banks hating people that don't follow regulation guidelines in regards to FIAT. such as Amir Taaki who is a known hater of government rules that never got FSA regulated with his intersango business.

now he is living as a squatter in some office building somewhere

Funny how the regulators turn blind eyes on the banks yet manage to be very capable at disrupting new services in the UK.

banks dont get ignored. they follow the rules in regards to asking for Id when setting up an account/setting customer limits.. what FSA does not do is tell banks not to lie about certain things or say dont leg it with peoples money. al they care about is customers traceability.

basic rule of thumb is as long as we can trace where customers send their money to its fine. if you decide to leg it with the money, thats fine too as long as you bought the government insurance from http://www.fscs.org.uk/

but amir taaki never got regulated and never got the insurance so yea, he deserved to get screwed by proving he couldnt look after customers funds legally
JackH
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May 12, 2013, 07:58:38 PM
 #37

I am really looking for better methods in the UK to get access to Bitcoin. I am actually thinking we should seriously do something about this together, form a company, get a law firm to represent a bunch of us and chip in some money to get regulations in place. We are moving at snail speed here, and may as well get started before its too late.

Who is up for doing something about this thing? I would gladly assist with money etc myself for a venture.

<helo> funny that this proposal grows the maximum block size to 8GB, and is seen as a compromise
<helo> oh, you don't like a 20x increase? well how about 8192x increase?
<JackH> lmao
jlchcc
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May 12, 2013, 10:07:05 PM
 #38

.

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owenprescott
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May 12, 2013, 10:20:05 PM
 #39

I am curious, would I face any legal complications if I were to set up an eCommerce store which sells BTC? I have set up systems that accept bank transfer and Bitcoin before so perhaps I could offer better prices then Localbitcoins etc.
Scott J
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May 12, 2013, 10:45:58 PM
 #40

I am curious, would I face any legal complications if I were to set up an eCommerce store which sells BTC? I have set up systems that accept bank transfer and Bitcoin before so perhaps I could offer better prices then Localbitcoins etc.
This is exactly what the whole thread is about.

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