Conceptually, what could the government do to defeat bitcoin?

[justusranvier]

This means that answer to question

what could the government do to defeat bitcoin?

is probably nothing.

They could balance their budgets, allow the banksters to be prosecuted for fraud and racketeering, stop the emission of unbacked credit, repeal the AML/KYC laws which prevent banks from offering the services their customers actually want, and basically reduce the appeal of bitcoins by making national currencies not suck.

In other words, nothing they are actually willing to do.

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[freequant]

You can try to kill a specific technology, but you can't kill evolution as a process. Killing Bitcoin would be a huge mistake, because the community would learn from its mistakes, and what would come next would be even more robust, stealthy and ... unstoppable. At the moment, personal profit, curiosity and progress are the prime motivators in the community. Kill the coin, and you'll just add to the list the most powerful of motivators: vengeance.

The only thing a government can do to tame bottom-up evolution of peer-to-peer technology is to make it irrelevant by addressing all the issues that fuel it: tax abuse, inflation, market manipulation, confiscation of wealth, discretionnary monetary policy, lobbying, neo-feudalism, privacy abuse, control of information, censorship...

Either way we win.
Checkmate.

[malevolent]

I have a question to those residing in the US.

Could American users of Bitcoin be classified and sentenced as domestic terrorists?

From what I have read Liberty Dollars were regarded as a form of 'domestic terrorism'

There is a critical distinction, in this regard, between NotHaus' Liberty Dollar and Bitcoin. NotHaus was purporting a USD denomination by calling them "Dollars" and using the $ symbol in its design. He also demonstrated the critical misstep of centralizing its production... There has to be someone to sue.

A few dozen countries also call their currency ''dollar'', a few use the dollar sign and yet we do not see US invading them for doing so

[MagicBit15]

Government could start a bitcoin mining pool. Offering 150% payout!
Lots of people would join to get 50% extra profit. Government would reach 80% and kill bitcoin instant

They would not even need that, a botnet would do just fine. offering 150% would not get anyone to join it. Those intelligent enough to join a pool are intelligent enough to read %'s and know that making $15 a day, instead of $10 a day, isn't smart to do when tomorrow you're making $0 a day.



Especially since bitcointalk would have a big red banner flashing saying DO NOT JOIN THIS GOVERNMENT POOL ERROR ERROR ERROR WOOT WOOT DONT DO IT!!1.1.1.1!!!1.14$@$$%%!! :p

Hahahahahaha in Bold Red, too!!

[Dabs]

Government would attempt to buy out the next batch of ASICs. They can afford it. Under different names of course.

[oakpacific]

Let me put it this way freequant... Let's say that someone knew all your individual positions and understood exactly how you trade. Could they take money out of your pockets?

Probably, but that makes a lot of unlikely conditions.

I am talking about the power of an omniscient trader, someone covertly plugged in to an exchange, capable of spearfishing you. Then like a sniper, picking off traders in droves.

That would more likely affect the exchange's popularity than Bitcoin itself.

True, but a government with enough reach could compromise as many exchanges as they wish. The questions being, "what could a government do?". My suggestion being, they could attack an exchange in this manner, particularly a de facto centralized exchange.

The Bitcoin 2.0 that you speak of would have to solve this problem.

There are other ways to do trading than using a website, besides, it's not difficult to catch governments red-handed if they do commit suck attacks, which will trun out to be a PR disaster for them, see, e.g., the Chinese hacking incident.

[oakpacific]

And, this comes from the Bitcoin Wiki page: "The IP addresses of most users are totally public. You can use Tor to hide this, but the network won't work if everyone does this. BitCoin requires that some country is still free."

[Gavin Andresen]

Wiki is out of date. Everybody running their node as a tor hidden service would work just fine as of a couple of releases ago.

[rpietila]

Thank you! 

[doobadoo]

Wiki is out of date. Everybody running their node as a tor hidden service would work just fine as of a couple of releases ago.

Does one have to run it as a hidden service?  Or are you just saying that you need to run vidalia and select the socks 5 proxy option and point the client proxy address to 127.0.0.1:9150?   Is there some more anonymous way to run this, or do i misread that?

[Foxpup]

Wiki is out of date. Everybody running their node as a tor hidden service would work just fine as of a couple of releases ago.

Does one have to run it as a hidden service?  Or are you just saying that you need to run vidalia and select the socks 5 proxy option and point the client proxy address to 127.0.0.1:9150?   Is there some more anonymous way to run this, or do i misread that?

That method is completely anonymous, but requires the presence of a Tor exit node in a free country. Running Bitcoin as a Tor hidden service does not involve exit nodes, and therefore works even if every ISP in the world is blocking Bitcoin traffic, though it's more complicated to set up.

[rpietila]

At what stage do you believe, the neutral governments start to endorse Bitcoin and welcome bitcoin-millionaires?

After all, not all the government workers in the world are directly controlled by the banking cabal (actually some of my friends work for gov, and are quite nice guys...) It does not take much from the government of Iceland, for example, to declare a Bitcoin-millionaire exile with a fixed poll tax of $5,000, and 100-year moratorium on any tax, duty, regulation or reporting requirement concerning anything Bitcoin.

Iceland is one of the world's premier places for mining, since energy there is free. They produce more out of nature than can be consumed.

Gentlemen, is the day of our release near? 

[Flying Hellfish]

If you would like to know what the USA (or any) government will do if they decide to "kill" BTC simply look at the UIGEA (it basically killed online poker/gambling in the USA)... 

They don't have to attack the network, they don't have to "manipulate" the market all they simply have to do is make it illegal for American banks to process any transaction to or from a BTC exchange or business.  Until people need to stop changing BTC for fiat IMO that will be the weak link, currently at some point people want/need to convert their BTC to fiat and usually at some step of the process a bank will be involved. 

While this may not kill BTC completely it will certainly keep the "average joe" out of the game and would likely relish BTC back to the seedy underworld for all intents and purposes.  All the gov't has to do is play the money laundering and terrorism card and a law could get passed and I can see the current monetary regime with their lobby groups helping this along...  I actually think that for this reason a lot of big money is going to sit on the side lines and watch the next few years and it is honestly the biggest concern I have for the long term success of BTC.

[unk]

it's ridiculous for people to think bitcoins pose a threat to government. some idiot kid at bloomberg took this seriously recently, but it's nonsense.

first, there's not even a real threat. people do illegal things all the time now, with cash. some get caught. bitcoin doesn't change that. enforcement resources track enforcement priorities. the most likely scenario even if bitcoin gains massive adoption is that major governments either don't care or that they try to promote it. they'll focus on the crime and win about as often as they do now.

second, criminal sanctions deter most people and can destroy the economic value of a trade, at least temporarily. if the government makes it illegal to use bitcoins, many people would stop, or at least it would sharply restrict trade. an illegal cryptocurrency would never gain mainstream adoption in the united states. file-sharing is widespread but doesn't require the same coordination and trust that a currency does. the right analogy to have in mind is child pornography, not bittorrenting a television show. most people are law-abiding in general, and unless bitcoin solves major, pressing problems for them (hint: it doesn't, at least not yet), they won't even be tempted to use it if it were illegal.

third, people here have been incredibly narrow-minded about potential government responses if the government actually cared. yes, obviously they could shut down currency exchanges, but they could also force the protocol into tor or even, if it were ever important enough, try to inderdict bitcoin by requiring hardware manufacturers to cooperate (as the 'content' industry tried with DRM. it failed there, but not because it's conceptually impossible).

in any case, i very much doubt it will ever be illegal to trade bitcoins or that it will have any meaningful impact on government power. people who want to illegally evade taxes can already do so. many get caught, many don't.