[FACTS] Altcoins can never replace FIAT !

[Spoetnik]

I will start off with one of many reasons why (i have posted since 2013)

The biggest problem i see with a digital currency is.. that it's digital  

The fact is if we see a huge part of the world in a black-out with no electricity..
then we will see crypto coins as neutered and useless.

This is in fact a very real possibility certainty.
I have seen countless scientists many from NASA say for 20 years this WILL happen and it's a matter of when not if.
So what are you going to do then ?

Since day one when i got into this stuff i have warned users abut this.
I have warned them that something should have been done to account for this risk.
Not sure what you CAN do though.

There is many reasons why crypto-coins can not replace FIAT.
I will post another reason or two later

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[Fuserleer]

97% of all fiat is digital, most of the infrastructure for fiat requires electricity, so fiat has the same problem....therefore its not really an independent problem for crypto

If it does happen, I vote we all go back to bartering and use goats as our currency of choice!

Case closed :p

[Spoetnik]

FIAT is not going to suffer the same problem.
Its not digital.. i can pull out some cash from my wallet RIGHT NOW and show it to you.
I am willing to bet in an extended Black-Out FIAT will still be used heavily.
It will not vanish for bartering or metals..
Why ?
Because it will have faith.. people will have faith when the power is turned back on bank records etc will get updated.
Same with Crypto coins except the point.. why i posted !
Is that crypto-coins will be unable to function if too much of the power grid is knocked out.
hence why you said you would use Bartering
in other words you agree i am right.

I think it's sad that all of crypto has ignored this glaring problem since day 1.
And it will eventually come back to bite you all in the ass hard.

Don't forget there is lots of users around crypto making predictions that crypto will replace FIAT.
Which is not a rare thing.. lots of stary eyed little dreamers think that.

I also remind them that the poor can't use crypto coins..
Super large areas of the world can't or won't use Computers for one thing.
Hell i have a room-mate who still no matter how many times is shown how to use a computer still can't figure it out.
And yet you delusional naive little experts proclaim all cocky like that FIAT will be abolished and digital currency will replace it.
NONSENSE ..silly bullshit !

Sorry but hate to burst your bubble but there is too much of a NEED for FIAT.
You delusional little Millennial kids need to strap on the reality-cap tight and get a grip !

POWER OUTAGES ?
I had a planned power outage about 2 weeks ago at home..
I used my cell-phone and some speakers to play music with it.
But that battery will not last forever !

If there is an extended power outage for all of North America (or most of it)
There will be a massive problem including thousands if not millions of deaths.
Either from heat or cold.. i know because it did already happen.
Google search New York power outages and the associated deaths because of it.. same as in Canada after winter storms knocked out power for long periods.
And the longer it is the worse it will be.
The govt / police / hospitals etc will be over run and Marshall law will go into effect and there will be huge amounts of crime and mass looting and house / business raids.

REALITY ..the clock is ticking and no one in crypto is prepared.
And if you want to make an ALTCOIN then i suggest fixing that obvious problem Bitcoin suffers.
If you can't fix this problem then come to terms with the fact that crypto-coins are DOOMED !
Broken by design.. reliant on power that can not be guaranteed.

[Omegasun]

FIAT is not going to suffer the same problem.
Its not digital.. i can pull out some cash from my wallet RIGHT NOW and show it to you.

He just said that only 97% of fiat is in digital and not the total amount. So it means that your cash in the wallet is belongs to 3% that is not included there. Because even the world bank where the majority of the fiat is stored. They have  it on digital storage because physical money is hard to stored and transfer to other account.

[freshman777]

97% of all fiat is digital, most of the infrastructure for fiat requires electricity, so fiat has the same problem....therefore its not really an independent problem for crypto

If it does happen, I vote we all go back to bartering and use goats as our currency of choice!

Case closed :p

^This.

If this does happen for any prolonged span of time, 97% of population will die out simply because food will stop growing on the shelves. Goats will be of great value, I assume.

[NeuroticFish]

The biggest problem i see with a digital currency is.. that it's digital  

The fact is if we see a huge part of the world in a black-out with no electricity..
then we will see crypto coins as neutered and useless.

This is in fact a very real possibility certainty.
I have seen countless scientists many from NASA say for 20 years this WILL happen and it's a matter of when not if.
So what are you going to do then ?

Well, in this case northern countries like Sweden will be in deep x.
I've read many times that some of them (or was it only one?) tries to give up paper money and make everything go with Card or phone payment.
So if banks try to create this trend for FIAT, I don't see a big problem in the fact that crypto currencies are digital.

And yes, in the case of prolonged power outage goats, sheep and chicken will worth a fortune

A question that I want to ask since I've read the topic is... why only altcoins cannot replace FIAT? Is Bitcoin less... digital?


PS. I agree that crypto currencies cannot replace FIAT now, there are better reasons than electricity.

[thepo1m]

Can imagine what will be going on in the mind of people when paper currency was designed to replace gold, I am not 100% sure digital currency will replace fiat but when change come you won't even know how people will accept and adopt it.

[Spoetnik]

Half the world can't get computers or phones or even a bank account.
So no.. FIAT is not going anywhere.

And none of you responded to my point that FIAT would still be used in an outage because of faith.
The same exact faith that has kept it going all this time so far.

A bit hard to keep a pile of goats in your pocket.
But i would expect if it carried on for a LONG time metals to rise up and be the new currency. AKA: Gold / Silver.

Crypt Coins will never replace FIAT.. even if you all out there keep saying it.
And once we start talking about it all you do is move the goal posts.
When you said it would "replace" it.

You need to be realistic and look far beyond your own 'Like' clicking Facebook world kids.

[kiklo]

Can imagine what will be going on in the mind of people when paper currency was designed to replace gold, I am not 100% sure digital currency will replace fiat but when change come you won't even know how people will accept and adopt it.

Actually in the beginning paper currency was not pushed as replacing gold, it was pushed as a note that entitled you to a exchange for Gold if so asked.
Which is why this used to be printed on Money.
United States of America
Fifty Dollars in GoldCoin
Payable to the Bearer on Demand



Paper was lighter to carry than gold, and the banks would swap with you before the asshats changed it.
https://www.frbservices.org/help/coin_and_currency.html#a2

Federal Reserve notes are not redeemable in gold, silver, or any other commodity. Federal Reserve notes have not been redeemable in gold since January 30, 1934, when the Congress amended Section 16 of the Federal Reserve Act to read: "The said [Federal Reserve] notes shall be obligations of the United State. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve Bank." Federal Reserve notes have not been redeemable in silver since the 1960s.

 

[BitcoinNational]

97% of all fiat is digital, most of the infrastructure for fiat requires electricity, so fiat has the same problem....therefore its not really an independent problem for crypto

If it does happen, I vote we all go back to bartering and use goats as our currency of choice!

Case closed :p

@spot ... you are not listening ... your argument is lost already.

@kiklo ... spot on ... 'the bankers' offered convince of paper vs. physical and solved the 'network' problem by balancing the difference between themselves ... few of them knew it was just a con to convert 100% to paper ... that hustle is BUST!

Now the 3rd world can handle cell phone tech ... or at least ATM + 'password' ... so yes some kind of poker chip that can't be counterfiated with a high degree of confidence will still pass as money ... but the value it holds will be dependent on the local bank that promises to redeem it for UNO or BTC or LTC or whatever.

[kiklo]

What you mention about the dangers of EMP are true, however an EMP of that magnitude would kill everyone with a pacemaker and anyone with medical needs that depend on the current system. One good book on the subject is called One Second After by William R. Forstchen and it will scare the hell out of most people. http://www.onesecondafter.com

Cash becomes useless within days of the EMP, and Barter takes over.
Food , Cigarettes, Gasoline, Pre 1982 cars that still run, ammo , and what little medicine can survive without refrigeration.

Their is no faith in a Government Note, when for all practical purposes their is no government.
So Physical Cash will hold no special favor over a digital version.

Draw some Fiat out of a bank last week , and the bank was advertising Apple Pay.  
There will be a move from physical cash to some form of digital cash stored on or managed by people's cellphone, the dark powers are dead set on making this change within a decade or so. Whether the Govs create their own or force the populace to use a chosen crypto thru subtle influence or harsh penalties, only time will tell, but it is inevitable.

One of my friends was doing some work in Haiti (one of the poorest countries), what amazed him was seeing a guy riding a donkey with no shoes but he was talking on his Cellphone.  
Small solar panels can easily keep cellphones charged in the poorest of countries.
  
 

[LieXurui]

litecoin and ethreum can exchange to fiat money without bitcoin

[kiklo]

97% of all fiat is digital, most of the infrastructure for fiat requires electricity, so fiat has the same problem....therefore its not really an independent problem for crypto

If it does happen, I vote we all go back to bartering and use goats as our currency of choice!

Case closed :p

LOL,
Since you mentioned Goats, here is some info  

1 Goat = ~$300 US Dollars on this site
http://www.prairiefruits.com/goats-for-sale

Goat Milk can be drank by people allergic to cow's milk
Nutrition wise it is better than cows milk.
Goat Milk can be used to make some of the world's best cheeses, also used in making excellent soaps

Goats can eat from areas where farming is impractical and thrive.
Goat is the most widely consumed red meat in the world.
http://modernfarmer.com/2013/09/goat-left-behind/

Goat sexually mature: From 4 to 6 months.
In season (when female goats are fertile): Between September and March; fertility lasts up to three days. If the female goat is not mated, she will come into season every 21 days. Once mated, goats can stay in milk for two to three years.

Gestation (length of pregnancy) of a female goat : 150 days
Normal Number of goat offspring at 1 birthing is 1 to 3
(Have personally seen one have 4 kids at 1 birthing)

Average Goat Life Span is usually ~ 11 – 12 years


 

FYI:
Personal favorite breed of Goat is a kiko


Recent popular one in the US is a Boer


Boers do great in dry climates, but full blooded ones will get sick on you quick in environments with a lot of rain.
So get one that is mixed with kiko or spanish or anything else so it has a stronger Constitution if you are not in a dry climate like Africa or Texas.

[Pursuer]

this is the obvious facts that are too obvious that nobody ever talks about!

not even bitcoin can replace fiat but not because of the reasons you are talking about here! world black out and NSA crap are all doomsday theories suitable for people living in their basements with tinfoin-hats

the reason is because people first of all would not give up their tradition fiat for anything else this easily.
and secondly government would never give up control over money to a decentralized money they can not control!

[Fuserleer]

97% of all fiat is digital, most of the infrastructure for fiat requires electricity, so fiat has the same problem....therefore its not really an independent problem for crypto

If it does happen, I vote we all go back to bartering and use goats as our currency of choice!

Case closed :p

LOL,
Since you mentioned Goats, here is some info  

1 Goat = ~$300 US Dollars on this site
http://www.prairiefruits.com/goats-for-sale

Goat Milk can be drank by people allergic to cow's milk
Nutrition wise it is better than cows milk.
Goat Milk can be used to make some of the world's best cheeses, also used in making excellent soaps

Goats can eat from areas where farming is impractical and thrive.
Goat is the most widely consumed red meat in the world.
http://modernfarmer.com/2013/09/goat-left-behind/

Goat sexually mature: From 4 to 6 months.
In season (when female goats are fertile): Between September and March; fertility lasts up to three days. If the female goat is not mated, she will come into season every 21 days. Once mated, goats can stay in milk for two to three years.

Gestation (length of pregnancy) of a female goat : 150 days
Normal Number of goat offspring at 1 birthing is 1 to 3
(Have personally seen one have 4 kids at 1 birthing)

Average Goat Life Span is usually ~ 11 – 12 years


 

FYI:
Personal favorite breed of Goat is a kiko


Recent popular one in the US is a Boer


Boers do great in dry climates, but full blooded ones will get sick on you quick in environments with a lot of rain.
So get one that is mixed with kiko or spanish or anything else so it has a stronger Constitution if you are not in a dry climate like Africa or Texas.

hahah this guy will be the King of a goat bartering economy!

[Spoetnik]

I have too many replies LOL

@kiklo
I lived renting a house on a farm for years and had Goats in my yard so i know about them myself.
They use to harrass the shit out of me when i came home with groceries !
I once flipped out and raged like a maniac because i had like 5 or 6 groceries bags full trying to open my gate to get into the yard the were penned up in around my house and they were jumping up on me & shit like crazy causing me to drop food + a 4 liter jug of milk on the ground which they swiftly started licking off the ground.
I was pissed ! i started yelling at them to fuck off.. and they did.

Goats ?
I have Goat Simulator for Android & PC.. i am all about the power, majesty and mystical prestige of Goatdom !
I got a tattoo of the infamous Goatse.jpeg on my back..

ProGoatTip:
Google image search Goats on Motorcycles.. i do regularly  

But yeah i recall hearing about the Gold / FIAT redeeming thing in the old days.
And if we are talking about power being out it would depend on HOW LONG.
If grids were being fixed and it took a few months there would still be faith in a FIAT currency.
Not saying bartering would not happen though.

Oh and i have seen scientists state many times flares / CME's can do more damage than you all realize and do .. the medical records are recorded.. so there is not little conspiracy about it.
People with heart conditions such as myself die on a regular basis from CME's
I seen this posted a million times SpaceWeather.com but read this for another source..
Solar Storm Disaster Preparedness Plan1 - Impact
http://www.breadandbutterscience.com/SSDPP.pdf ...Seems to mirror what i said huh ?
Guess what ? I never read it.. it's just that a lot of people are saying what i said.
And guess what i said earlier ?
Scroll up.. NASA scientists are saying it and for 20 years yet once again we hear tinfoil babble.
So what the US govt and NASA are telling the public crazy conspiracies ?
Or common sense because it HAS already happened in human lifetimes ? ..more than once.
So yeah it keeps happening and NASA warns you and we have proof but yup..... conspiracy  
Morons cry TinFoil hat..

There is plenty of reasons for this topic.
None are debunked.
FIAT cash paper & coin money will not be replaced by a crypto currency.. that is just stupid.

And sorry but 3rd world countries having cell phones ? Uhhhmm no that is dumb.
They don't.
You millennial brats are stupid.
I shouldn't have to prove it if you check yourself.
Such as i recently seen a study where a huge portion of people in USA & CAN do not have a bank account.
So how are we using digital transfers then ?

I just finished saying i have a room-mate who does not even know how to turn on a computer.
Let alone a cell phone etc and you think this guy is even going to grasp what Bitcoin is and trust it and switch to it over his pocket full of money ?
Not fucking happening.
Tribes in Papua New Guinea ? oh yeah yeah they have lots of power outlets in their grass huts.

The reality is FIAT is NEEDED and if it is needed it will not be "replaced" as you all love to claim over & over.

People in Crypto have been claiming Bitcoin or an Altcoin will eventually REPLACE FIAT.
I have heard it lots all over and i still think it's bullshit.
Further more designing them to be 100% reliant on an always on Internet requiring electricity is 101% retarded.
The greatest point of failure and weak point.. ignored.
It's true and i do not recall ever hearing 1 other person on earth ever mention it.
I started bringing this up on Cryptsy chat in mid-2013.. and yeah i heard the obligatory tinfoil hat remarks..
Problem is.. i will not get to say i told you so
You can't get to Bitcointalk if the power is cut in the USA or the Internet is taken down etc.

I love when idiots say "impossible" on the Internet..
I have been hearing that like a broken record and i ALWAYS prove them wrong.
Then i laugh in their face.  

[kiklo]

Plan has been in the works since 1988 with a scheduled date of 2018 for mass implementation
https://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2014/07/26/flashback-1988-get-ready-for-a-world-currency-by-2018%E2%80%B3-the-economist-magazine/

Negative Interest rates and some Business refusing to accept cash is all part of the hammer to force people into crypto.
http://bucks.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/06/08/sorry-no-cash-please/?_r=0
https://www.bostonglobe.com/business/2016/08/03/paying-cash-some-stores-say-thanks-greenbacks-credit-only/a4EvjwgTpI7r4lD3xVOENO/story.html
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1033497/pg1   (AT&T DONT EXCEPT CASH?)

As far as the very few in the future that don't have the funds or the intellectual capacity,
they will be subjected to 3rd party services to transfer money or using Gift cards to hold their funds.
Smarter people will use Gift Cards linked thru their phone like GYFT .
https://www.gyft.com or https://www.egifter.com or https://www.cardfy.com and purchase the desired Gift Card with the BTC .

Mentally Challenged people like your friend will have the credit card style gift cards with a bar code.
https://usa.visa.com/pay-with-visa/cards/prepaid-cards/payroll-card.html
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wal-mart-employees-debit-cards-paychecks/story?id=8494124

** The only thing that has to happen , is the Banks add a Deposit FEE for CASH of a few % ,
Business will be forced to go cashless to save profit margin, and they will force the public to go cashless, it is that simple.  


   

FYI:
http://mashable.com/2013/04/05/mobile-solar-power/#QEDSf_ejmkq8

6. WakaWaka Power Compact Solar Charger

After a day in the sun, the WakaWaka compact charger can fully charge your phone.
And there's a perk -- for every charger you purchase, WakaWaka gives one to those in need (and it manufactures parts in Haiti,
which is still reeling from natural disasters).

Price: $79

Image courtesy of WakaWaka

[SANALIU]

is true altcoin can never replace and take over fiat money
bitcoin is too never replace and take over position fiat money
bitcoin and altcoin only use in online digital curency
fiat money can use in real life

[Spoetnik]

I don't think most of you grasp how technically inept a huge amount of the population is.
vs.. cash in your pocket.

Even myself i prefer to have cash in hand.
All my life if i get a check i cash it and take the money.. i do not like or trust banks.
Which is not too unusual..

Then factor in the mystery if people even hear about various tech things like services or BTC etc.
They scare people.. for good reason (ever seen a hack news story ?

I was arguing about something dumb with my inept room-mate idiot..
I had to remind him.. hey guy.. know what ?
I can Google search ANYTHING and get the truth in a heart beat.
He was like ohhh uhhh yeah i forgot he said.
He just does not grasp that there is a wealth of factual information out there at the click of a button.
Because ? He does not even vaguely grasp the tech.. the Internet etc.
It's all just mysterious bloops and bleeps as he holds the computer mouse upside down.
He's hitting the scroll wheel sayin' did i do one ? Did i internet now ?

And NO you can't tell people these things because it goes in one ear and out the other..
I tried to show the guy how to click a button and he still does not get it after being shown for years.

A HUGE part of the population NEEDS the simplicity of FIAT.
The tangible quality of cash in hand can not be substituted with something digital.
Supplemented ? Absolutely ! ..no argument there.

A world currency ?
Sorry but that is just not going to happen.
I was the one who posted here first the UK dropped out of the EU..
In other words you will not get your ducks in line !

You think North Korea is going to drop their FIAT for BTC ? or a world currency ?
You all need to be realistic about the needs / desires of various parts of the planet.

Don't forget how many of you have claimed a digital currency will REPLACE FIAT money.
That is the topic and i brought it up because i have heard it a LOT for years !
Do you people ACTUALLY believe this realistically ?

PS:
GOATS !!!111ONE

[kiklo]

I don't think most of you grasp how technically inept a huge amount of the population is.
vs.. cash in your pocket.

Even myself i prefer to have cash in hand.
All my life if i get a check i cash it and take the money.. i do not like or trust banks.
Which is not too unusual..

Then factor in the mystery if people even hear about various tech things like services or BTC etc.
They scare people.. for good reason (ever seen a hack news story ?

I was arguing about something dumb with my inept room-mate idiot..
I had to remind him.. hey guy.. know what ?
I can Google search ANYTHING and get the truth in a heart beat.
He was like ohhh uhhh yeah i forgot he said.
He just does not grasp that there is a wealth of factual information out there at the click of a button.
Because ? He does not even vaguely grasp the tech.. the Internet etc.
It's all just mysterious bloops and bleeps as he holds the computer mouse upside down.
He's hitting the scroll wheel sayin' did i do one ? Did i internet now ?

And NO you can't tell people these things because it goes in one ear and out the other..
I tried to show the guy how to click a button and he still does not get it after being shown for years.

A HUGE part of the population NEEDS the simplicity of FIAT.
The tangible quality of cash in hand can not be substituted with something digital.
Supplemented ? Absolutely ! ..no argument there.

A world currency ?
Sorry but that is just not going to happen.
I was the one who posted here first the UK dropped out of the EU..
In other words you will not get your ducks in line !

You think North Korea is going to drop their FIAT for BTC ? or a world currency ?
You all need to be realistic about the needs / desires of various parts of the planet.

Don't forget how many of you have claimed a digital currency will REPLACE FIAT money.
That is the topic and i brought it up because i have heard it a LOT for years !
Do you people ACTUALLY believe this realistically ?

PS:
GOATS !!!111ONE

If they were not pushing negative interest rates,
if they were not decreasing the higher denominations of fiat,
if business were not refusing to accept cash,
if solar chargers and cell phone tech was not being designed with the 3rd world in mind.
https://www.cta.tech/News/Blog/Articles/2015/July/How-Mobile-Phones-Are-Changing-the-Developing-Worl.aspx

Then I would say you were right, but alas there are too many things being moved into place worldwide to make it happen.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/04/sweden-cashless-society-cards-phone-apps-leading-europe

Your friend will just use a refillable payment card,  where he or someone else just swipes it.
It won't get any simpler than that.

 

FYI:
Personally , I would prefer that cash be left alone and the higher denominations like the $1000 & $10000 Bills were brought back.
Their agenda is apparent, and by controlling the banks and legal system, and playing on the cost savings and convenience of a digital currency, the majority of the populace will follow willing into their new system.
Just as the populace quit accepting gold & silver coins and started accepting Worthless Paper money backed by nothing but the word of known Liars ,
the next transition is to digital where their is no counterfeiting and permanent record keeping.

FYI2:
Just as now if you walked into McDonalds and tried to buy a burger & fries with a gold coin, a few years from now you will get the same look trying to use cash.
And a request to pay digitally to get your food. 

[Spoetnik]

Cash will not be dropped..

https://www.neowin.net/news/debit-card-details-of-32-million-customers-stolen-in-india-banks-begin-blocking-cards

Paper money is king !

[kiklo]

Cash will not be dropped..

https://www.neowin.net/news/debit-card-details-of-32-million-customers-stolen-in-india-banks-begin-blocking-cards

Paper money is king !

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/01/business/dealbook/hackers-81-million-sneak-attack-on-world-banking.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2573618/Kourtney-Kardashian-50-000-CASH-stolen-home-police-believe-linked-sister-Khloes-recent-jewellery-theft.html

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/09/25/columbus-circle-subway-attack/

http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/14758464.Armed_muggers_steal_large_amount_of_money_from_man_in_alley/?ref=arc

Someone may steal your money no matter how you store it, people are mugged and robbed everyday , does not make anyone stop using it.
Government Regulated Cash will be made irrelevant within 10 years.

I am sure in the past someone said that paper money would never replace gold coins or that the automobile would never replace the horse or that wireless phones would never replace old copper wired house phone. I even remember one guy saying the Internet would never replace Compuserve. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CompuServe

Things change , some for the better some not. But things will always change.    

 

FYI:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/10/10/imagining-a-cashless-world

In a new book, “The Curse of Cash,” Rogoff, now a professor at Harvard, argues for phasing out paper money in the U.S., starting with big bills and slowly letting small denominations fall toward disuse. “Paper currency has become a major impediment to the smooth functioning of the global financial system,” he writes. His cause dates to the late nineteen-nineties, when he found that sixty per cent of the value of the country’s currency supply was in hundred-dollar bills—an astonishing proportion, considering how rarely C-notes show up in ordinary life. Since then, the percentage has risen (it’s now about eighty per cent), with $1.34 trillion outside banks at any moment. That’s nearly forty-two hundred dollars carried by every man, woman, and child in the U.S. Under whose mattress has all this cash vanished?

Rogoff argues that the invisible large notes must be paying off-the-book wages. They are sitting in Zurich safe-deposit boxes, probably, crossing borders with cartels and traffickers, and doing other awful things. The U.S. dollar is an unofficial currency in both unstable economies (such as the Philippines) and under-the-table oligarchies (China, Russia). Phasing out big bills would make it harder for domestic currency to support corruption abroad. A million dollars in hundred-dollar bills is easy to tote in a shopping bag, but a million in ten-dollar bills weighs an ungainly two hundred and twenty pounds. Hobbling the underground market should also temper tax evasion, a costlier problem than many people realize. The most recent I.R.S. estimates indicate a tax-payment shortfall of four hundred and sixty billion dollars a year—a disparity that’s transferred to those who pay. Rogoff speculates that eliminating big bills would also be a more effective deterrent to illegal immigration than, say, a border wall, because the wages of undocumented workers are, necessarily, paid in cash.

Most important for many economists, low-cash life allows for negative interest rates, in which the lender pays the borrower interest. These are already in limited use in Europe and Japan, and they’ve become the subject of increasing attention in the U.S. (Paper money is an obstacle, because if interest rates went negative a lot of people would cash out and stuff money into sock drawers—that way, at least, they’d get a zero rate.) Some economists think a quick drop into negative rates during a global economic crisis, like the one in 2008, would have the effect of a defibrillator: there would be a brief jolt, but then the system would get pumping again, and both interest rates and inflation would return to healthy, growth-oriented zones. As things are, rates can’t drop below zero, but they struggle to climb. For these and other reasons, Rogoff told me, some formerly skeptical colleagues have warmed to the idea of phasing out cash. Seriously considering his sunset scenario in the U.S., however, would require looking to a country that has already started toward that horizon.

That country is Sweden

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/04/sweden-cashless-society-cards-phone-apps-leading-europe

[BitcoinNational]

Goatse

[kiklo]

 





 

[Febo]

The biggest problem i see with a digital currency is.. that it's digital  

How will owen and a vacuum cleaner be able to do any business transactions with a fiat?

Owen will burn it and not sure what will vacuum cleaner do with it.

Digital currency was invented for them. Not for us.

[Teraboy]

I will start off with one of many reasons why (i have posted since 2013)

The biggest problem i see with a digital currency is.. that it's digital  

The fact is if we see a huge part of the world in a black-out with no electricity..
then we will see crypto coins as neutered and useless.

This is in fact a very real possibility certainty.
I have seen countless scientists many from NASA say for 20 years this WILL happen and it's a matter of when not if.
So what are you going to do then ?

Since day one when i got into this stuff i have warned users abut this.
I have warned them that something should have been done to account for this risk.
Not sure what you CAN do though.

There is many reasons why crypto-coins can not replace FIAT.
I will post another reason or two later

Oh you got my point, I never using my crypto coin if the elctricity in my house is dead. i'm not a naive persone or the crypto fanatic but this is a re very true in my mind. like saving the coin in my phone and if my battery is got empty and i can't do anything with my coin and this si a reality.
In fact the gold is always be a king and the paper money is always be a queen.

[spacelab]

Spoetnik, you silly silly man.

98% of fiat IS DIGITAL. If the global energy shuts down, we have more problems to worry about than which currencies can and cant function

[Spoetnik]

Spoetnik, you silly silly man.

98% of fiat IS DIGITAL. If the global energy shuts down, we have more problems to worry about than which currencies can and cant function

You did not get what i was saying then.
I am pointing out a flaw in every coin so far.. Electricity requirements + the Internet.
I always thought the spirit of this forum section was to improve on Bitcoin.
Well.. i just told you all a major problem that has not been addressed in the slightest.
And i am silly for pointing it out ?

What does the fact other problems exist have to do with it ?

Cut the power or internet and no coins people.
Maybe a system should be in place to handle this ?
No ?

I also think that is directly linked to the topic title i posted.

It's a complicated issue for sure but we have vulnerabilities that should be handled.
And we also have a large amount of users that think crypto-corns will make FIAT vanish forever.

@kiklo
Which is more trusted with the public ?
The digital handling of FIAT or cash in hand ?
Rhetorical
Ever heard of a bank run ?

When it comes to introducing people to crypto coins i never met a person that was trusting of it.
But will they trust the govt controlled FIAT dollar i put in there hand ?
YES.
Your exceptions don't really address what i am saying i think eh.

Like lets face it here guys if Bitcoin or the biggest Altcoins fail then what ?
Is the various large govts going to start handing bail-out packages ?
Nope.. and smart people know this.

I seen a guy on CNN show how he made over a billion over night.
He said it was easy.. they announced bail-outs so him and the others crashed the markets
..then collected the bail-out money.

Why ? the FED Reserve is there to do that.. it's their job.
Which is EXACTLY why the world has faith in FIAT.
Because the govts have pledged to keep it going..

Who is doing that for crypto ? NOBODY.
EDIT: Correction = Ethereum backers are doing it *in secret*

PS:
Loved the goat pics LOL  

[Fuserleer]

So what happens to the value of your fiat if the power goes out?

97% of USD disappears, and there is 3% left over in physical cash.  The value of the USD (and all fiat currencies) will nose dive, so the value of that physical cash will be worthless anyway, so what are you going to do with it?

I guess you could lobby to continue using the cash that is available as a means of trade, but I'm sure you'd have a hard time with that due to perceived confidence regardless of if it makes sense to do so or not.

Ultimately if the power goes out, no current currency will survive, we'd probably end up back on gold and silver coins (or maybe tally sticks!)

[kiklo]

Spoetnik, you silly silly man.

98% of fiat IS DIGITAL. If the global energy shuts down, we have more problems to worry about than which currencies can and cant function

You did not get what i was saying then.
I am pointing out a flaw in every coin so far.. Electricity requirements + the Internet.
I always thought the spirit of this forum section was to improve on Bitcoin.
Well.. i just told you all a major problem that has not been addressed in the slightest.
And i am silly for pointing it out ?

What does the fact other problems exist have to do with it ?

Cut the power or internet and no coins people.
Maybe a system should be in place to handle this ?
No ?

I also think that is directly linked to the topic title i posted.

It's a complicated issue for sure but we have vulnerabilities that should be handled.
And we also have a large amount of users that think crypto-corns will make FIAT vanish forever.

@kiklo
Which is more trusted with the public ?
The digital handling of FIAT or cash in hand ?
Rhetorical
Ever heard of a bank run ?

When it comes to introducing people to crypto coins i never met a person that was trusting of it.
But will they trust the govt controlled FIAT dollar i put in there hand ?
YES.
Your exceptions don't really address what i am saying i think eh.

Like lets face it here guys if Bitcoin or the biggest Altcoins fail then what ?
Is the various large govts going to start handing bail-out packages ?
Nope.. and smart people know this.

I seen a guy on CNN show how he made over a billion over night.
He said it was easy.. they announced bail-outs so him and the others crashed the markets
..then collected the bail-out money.

Why ? the FED Reserve is there to do that.. it's their job.
Which is EXACTLY why the world has faith in FIAT.
Because the govts have pledged to keep it going..

Who is doing that for crypto ? NOBODY.
EDIT: Correction = Ethereum backers are doing it *in secret*

PS:
Loved the goat pics LOL  

   , Goat Pics are always fun.

You are right, about at the present time , most people prefer Cash to Crypto.
But the TPTB are planning to change that. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1654757.msg16624087#msg16624087

Back to your Lost electricity issue.
It shows a hacker's mind that you see a problem , and see cash as a solution, but follow this line of thinking for a minute and see if it affects your conclusion.

Less than 72 hours, without electricity

Cell Towers , are running on Battery Backups or generators , so the internet is still running, and people have been keeping their mobile phones charged using their car Chargers. So they can still spend crypto at business or with anyone else that keeps their phone charged.
Everyone is also still taking Cash, however the ATMs to draw more is down.

Now 7 days , without electricity

Your Car is out of Gas, from looking for a gas station to refill , even thru the gas stations have gas, they use electricity to run the Pumps, so no one can pump gas without electricity. The Generator used up the last of your Gas saving the food in the freezer & refrigerator. All of the Grocery Stores have been ransacked and people just took the food. All Phone Communications died after the 4th day without electricity, so crypto payments only last 4 days max. But the people that did take cash for payments , now are sitting on worthless paper bills as they have no way to get any more product in and now no one even takes cash. Plus the people have all begun taking whatever they wanted by force, law enforcement has abandoned their posts and are protecting no one but their-selves. Gangs have begun to spring up , that are taking everything from people and killing them if they face any resistance.

Moral of this story is that after 7 to 14 Days, people have no hope of electricity returning and order being restored , they will revert to their basic animal nature , and we are back to stone age laws, Survival of the Fittest.

Cash or Crypto will not survive a week without electricity, when the infrastructure fails.

The above scenario is if the people don't know what has happen, if everyone suspects the big one EMP that destroys all of the world technology.
Crypto is dead immediately and cash dead less than 24 hours as people realize their is no government left to support it.


 

FYI:
ZEIT Knights are there for ZEITcoin , 

[Spoetnik]

@kiko
It depends i think on how you or i want to speculate on the outcome.
I STILL think people will want FIAT knowing that power will eventually be restored.
Sure.. many will resort to alternative means.. anything really.

The EMP scenario is often proposed online as a say 3 month Electrical downtime with say 75% of North America.
Long enough to be a doomsday scenario but not long enough to put humanity out of commission.

Get this concept though..
If all power is cut off then FIAT will still in fact work the exact same as it does now. (hand to hand transfer)
(good point about the ATM's though.. forced quantitative-easing at work LOL)
Where as in short time it will be impossible to use a Crypto coin (any of them)
So..
One is a viable *crippled* option and the other is NOT !

I think we are *almost* on the same page here.. so close  
You are making good sense for sure but think of this..
Many people in Crypto have ALWAYS bought up the cheapest shitcoins..
Back in 2013 i used that method while trading too.. in the hopes of profit.
So then think of FIAT paper money.
No matter what there WILL be a ton of people WANTING fiat cash money in a power outage.

Anyway let me try and get back on topic.
FIAT will not be replaced by a digital currency in my mind.. jut don't see it happening.
And the vulnerability of crypto is an aspect to that.
It shows how it is NOT a technology that is READY to replace FIAT.

Half the big sites on the web were just knocked out by a DNS attack..
These things are disruptive and paints electronic tech as a major risk.
I trust the collective faith in a FIAT dollar more than i do a technical digital money solution.
Anyway the EMP scenario is open to wide speculation but we do know Crypto will be dead.
Power will dwindle and poof ..no more Bitcorns etc.
Where as i can hoard FIAT and wait for the lights to come back on..

I appreciate the replies.. thinking this out is healthy for us etc.

[kiklo]

My point is that Crypto stored on Cell Phones will function almost as well as Cash during Short , keyword Short Power Outages.
With Car Chargers , the mobile phone can easily last until the cell towers backups run out of power.
Because the short ones , internet is still accessible from the Cellphone, and those cell towers have emergency power backups already in place.

Cash has to be drawn out before the power fails, as the ATMs die with the electricity and the banks will not open for the public until the power comes back on.

Hurricanes, Floods, Tornado all can cause short term problems, but they are short term and there is usually a place with power & communications within driving distance.
So the Fear that would grip a person, and cause them to revert to stone age civility does not occur.

A True EMP crash sends us back to Stone Ages, it won't be 3 months before we are back to our present standard of living.
More like Generations, as most knowledge is stored in electronic format and libraries with Actual Books are dying.  
The People that can help rebuilt from this may die in a disease outbreak or the violence that follows way before their skills can be used.

Plus many people think , no problem, we just live like people used to, what they don't understand , is that even the way people lived in the early 1900s,
there was a functioning infrastructure, with people knowing what was required of them to make a living.
Example :
In our Neighborhood growing up , there was a guy traveling around, with a donkey pulling a cart with salt, cooking utensils, clothes and most everything people needed.
Back when Sears & Robuck gave door to door service.
He would take cash or barter with you for crops/food or home made cloths and then visit the city to trade with them or buy supplies to sell back to the country people, these people made living easier for the City & Country people, if our current infrastructure collapses, it will be some time before the new systems can compensate, especially if we reset backwards technologically 100 years or more. It will take time before people can develop the expertise needed for these systems to work.

There is really only 3 scenarios that favor cash over crypto.
1. Governments outlaw it, doubtful because they are secretly promoting it with negative interest rates
2. Electricity networks are working normally , but the internet & all long distance communications itself is destroyed.
    (Internet was designed to withstand a Nuclear War, so odds are it will survive as long as their is electricity.)
3. Quantum computers actually can break any encryption in seconds meaning no crypto is safe.
    (Also Doubtful, we just use a quantum computer to create the next encryption. )  


These 3 Scenarios that favor Crypto over Cash.
1. Governments use Negative Interest Rates on Banks Deposits , & charge more if you use Cash. ( 1st part has already happened.)
2. Your Country Defaults on international payments making their Fiat worthless. (Venezuela is happening now, & the US is so far in Debt , it will never be paid off.)
3. Business go cashless, as a way to save money and hold onto Profit. (This has also already begun to happen.)

 

FYI:
On the EMP side of things, we need to start hardening our electronics to protect them from an EMP pulse.
As it has already happen in 1859.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859

Carrington flare

From August 28 to September 2, 1859, numerous sunspots were observed on the Sun. On August 29, southern auroras were observed as far north as Queensland, Australia.[5] Just before noon on September 1, the English amateur astronomers Richard Carrington and Richard Hodgson independently made the first observations of a solar flare.[6] The flare was associated with a major coronal mass ejection (CME) that travelled directly toward Earth, taking 17.6 hours to make the 150 million kilometre (93 million mile) journey. It is believed that the relatively high speed of this CME (typical CMEs take several days to arrive at Earth) was made possible by a prior CME, perhaps the cause of the large aurora event on August 29, that "cleared the way" of ambient solar wind plasma for the Carrington event.[6]

Because of a geomagnetic solar flare effect ("magnetic crochet")[7] observed in the Kew Observatory magnetometer record by Scottish physicist Balfour Stewart and a geomagnetic storm observed the following day, Carrington suspected a solar-terrestrial connection.[8] Worldwide reports on the effects of the geomagnetic storm of 1859 were compiled and published by American mathematician Elias Loomis, which support the observations of Carrington and Stewart.

On September 1–2, 1859, one of the largest recorded geomagnetic storms (as recorded by ground-based magnetometers) occurred. Auroras were seen around the world, those in the northern hemisphere as far south as the Caribbean; those over the Rocky Mountains in the U.S. were so bright that their glow awoke gold miners, who began preparing breakfast because they thought it was morning.[6] People in the northeastern United States could read a newspaper by the aurora's light.[9] The aurora was visible as far from the poles as Sub-Saharan Africa (Senegal, Mauritania, perhaps Monrovia, Liberia), Monterrey and Tampico in Mexico, Queensland, Cuba, Hawaii,[10] and even at lower latitudes very close to the equator, such as in Colombia.[11] Estimates of the storm strength range from -800 nT to -1750 nT.[12]

Telegraph systems all over Europe and North America failed, in some cases giving telegraph operators electric shocks.[13] Telegraph pylons threw sparks.[14] Some telegraph operators could continue to send and receive messages despite having disconnected their power supplies.[15]

On Saturday, September 3, 1859, the Baltimore American and Commercial Advertiser reported, "Those who happened to be out late on Thursday night had an opportunity of witnessing another magnificent display of the auroral lights. The phenomenon was very similar to the display on Sunday night, though at times the light was, if possible, more brilliant, and the prismatic hues more varied and gorgeous. The light appeared to cover the whole firmament, apparently like a luminous cloud, through which the stars of the larger magnitude indistinctly shone. The light was greater than that of the moon at its full, but had an indescribable softness and delicacy that seemed to envelop everything upon which it rested. Between 12 and 1 o'clock, when the display was at its full brilliancy, the quiet streets of the city resting under this strange light, presented a beautiful as well as singular appearance."[16]

In June 2013, a joint venture from researchers at Lloyd's of London and Atmospheric and Environmental Research (AER) in the United States used data from the Carrington Event to estimate the current cost of a similar event to the U.S. alone at $0.6–2.6 trillion.[2]

FYI2:  Where as i can hoard FIAT
It will have two advantages over Crypto in an EMP Scenario, you can burn it to stay warm or wipe your butt with it .  
(Or you could just use pine straw or corn cobs instead.)
(Roman Empire info, they used a Sponge on a Stick in a bucket of Salt Water.) 


FYI3:
Within 12 to 18 months, experts predict, 90 percent of Americans would be dead. ... 90 percent of all Americans would die within 12-18 months of an EMP.

[Spoetnik]

I have seen the scenario posed with an EMP only where it hits part of a continent.
Such as say 75% of North America..
If that happened we know there would be aid coming from the other countries who STILL have power.
So we have a partial power disruption scenario (far more likely)
And we also have a full global power outage scenario which is highly unlikely.

I also am skeptical very much data would be lost.
The key issue said is that there would be a power surge and the grids would get over loaded and fail.
This likely would not fry every hard drive everywhere i'm *guessing*

I agree though we are not prepared for a big outage Crypto or not..
We are teetering on the edge as it is just barley keeping humans fed etc.
The second the system is disrupted all hell will break loose and BAD !
The survivors will probably be in the woods away from the crowds i think.

Anyway i think the reliance on the net + power makes Crypto coins an unsuitable *replacement* for FIAT money.
I just think it's insanity how so many people actually think one of these crypto-coins will substitute the FIAT dollar + coins.

PS:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latinum

PPS:
You are all this --> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferengi
And your Bible ? --> Ferengi rules of acquisition ..Google it

PPS:
A CME is on it's way RIGHT NOW !
http://www.spaceweather.com/

[kiklo]

I have seen the scenario posed with an EMP only where it hits part of a continent.
Such as say 75% of North America..
If that happened we know there would be aid coming from the other countries who STILL have power.
So we have a partial power disruption scenario (far more likely)
And we also have a full global power outage scenario which is highly unlikely.

 , Natural EMP is hard to predict , US & Europe were hit last time.
Odds are much higher it is a attack from a foreign country that detonates nuclear warheads high in the atmosphere to generate the EMPs necessary to take out the US and part of Canada & Mexico.
Although the US does have defense systems designed to prevent that from happening.

I also am skeptical very much data would be lost.
The key issue said is that there would be a power surge and the grids would get over loaded and fail.
This likely would not fry every hard drive everywhere i'm *guessing*

I agree though we are not prepared for a big outage Crypto or not..
We are teetering on the edge as it is just barley keeping humans fed etc.
The second the system is disrupted all hell will break loose and BAD !
The survivors will probably be in the woods away from the crowds i think.

Anyway i think the reliance on the net + power makes Crypto coins an unsuitable *replacement* for FIAT money.
I just think it's insanity how so many people actually think one of these crypto-coins will substitute the FIAT dollar + coins.

So I think we can both agree, short term limited area electricity outages, either cash or crypto will work.
Long Term EMP with world wide damage, cash & crypto are useless and we start sharpening sticks and fighting over food.

A LongTerm Partial Outages, Cash would have an advantage initially in the electric dead zone only, however if even 1 copy of the blockchain survived in a foreign county (which is probable with a partial emp) , if you had printed a copy of your personal keys, you get to where there is power and use your personal key to activate your wallet and use it normally. (At which time, if you were rich in crypto , you would just move to the area where they have power, or exchange it for fiat or whatever they use in the electric dead zone, if you were going to stay in the EDZ.)

Smart idea is to have some Crypto, some gold & some silver, & enough fiat (if Business still take Fiat in 10 years) to use to get you out of the electric dead zone as Life will be hard there for years to come. Knowing how to Garden and Hunt and being used to outdoor camping, will be valuable, if staying in the electric dead zone.
But when you cross that border, it will be easier to hide a private crypto key than to hide the Fiat (that may be confiscated).
http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/bolivia-police-arrest-us-man-15-million-gold-42831486

Bolivian police say they've detained a 76-year-old U.S. citizen with more than 121 pounds (55 kilograms) of gold.
Anti-narcotics chief Santiago Delgadillo says Robert Agnew Meyer also was found with a small amount of cocaine and several pounds (kilograms) of silver coins.
He puts the value of the gold alone at more than $1.5 million.
Delgadillo says the man is being investigated for possible smuggling, though he has not been charged.

 

FYI:
I consider myself more of a member of the Q_Continuum than a ferengi.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Q_Continuum

[PacePay]

For me the actual fact is that bitcoin is already much busy in that job and for that bitcoin have to do a huge struggle and have to pass a longest period which all other altcoins cannot do as they are far weaker than bitcoin. Altcoins will first try to reach bitcoin and then they can think about other currency of the world.

[shanem]

Bitcoin is still the main crypto for an alternative to fiat. The rest of the altcoins are simply pump and dump or just an idea for now. The real usage for crypto is still very very small.
We need to promote crypto to the mass first before talking about replacing fiat.

[Daffadile]

I will start off with one of many reasons why (i have posted since 2013)

The biggest problem i see with a digital currency is.. that it's digital  

The fact is if we see a huge part of the world in a black-out with no electricity..
then we will see crypto coins as neutered and useless.

This is in fact a very real possibility certainty.
I have seen countless scientists many from NASA say for 20 years this WILL happen and it's a matter of when not if.
So what are you going to do then ?

Since day one when i got into this stuff i have warned users abut this.
I have warned them that something should have been done to account for this risk.
Not sure what you CAN do though.

There is many reasons why crypto-coins can not replace FIAT.
I will post another reason or two later

Fact !! Saying fact before everything does not make it fact !
Never say never. They said we would never go to the moon and that the Titanic would never sink too....

Oh here is a fact though....

"The fact is if we see a huge part of the world in a black-out with no electricity..
then we will see crypto coins as neutered and useless."

Doh !!!! Almost everything would't work. Are you trying to troll or something ? Money already is mostly digital. Please wake up !