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Author Topic: coinjedi / betsofbitco.in SCAMMERS: Declares "Push" on obvious win for BFL bet  (Read 27290 times)
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April 09, 2013, 05:13:20 PM
 #221

So here's a wacky theory.  Luke is obviously borderline sociopath, but perhaps we should be looking at coinjedi/BoB a little more closely. 

When this bet was made, the BTC price was way lower (I haven't checked exactly how low).  It's feasible that the site cashed out those BTC at the time for whatever reason, and the time has now come to settle with the winners.  Oh dear, the price has quadrupled (or whatever) and it now costs way too much to buy back the required coins.   Call it a draw, problem solved Wink

Just throwing it out there.


I'm not sure I understand your theory.  By calling it a draw, they still have to ship the same total number of bitcoins to both sides as they would if they declared a winner.

Now if you are saying that it appears coinjedi had a stake in the outcome and so maybe he had secretly bet on BFL...  well yeah, that's one of the theories.
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April 09, 2013, 05:31:06 PM
 #222

I think the next big question which I'd like to see addressed is how is it possible that the stunt that Luke Jr. and Josh pulled is not considered an attempt to defraud bettors? It is quite obvious that what they did was premeditated and intended to deceive. And they succeeded in altering the outcome of the bet, costing those who would have won a large amount. The evidence is already out there, and I don't think they deny what they did.

Is it just a matter of someone making an accusation thread? What are the arguments against their actions being consistent with being labeled a 'scammer'?

I for one definitely don't understand why someone like Luke Jr who has personally invested so much in the bitcoin community would risk what he has built over the years. Especially considering he has claimed he was not involved in the bet, meaning he wouldn't not have anything to gain by doing this. Only everything to lose, so that is puzzling to say the least.

I would honestly love to hear a well reasoned argument why the 'claiming to ship, but not actually shipping', and the subsequent financial damage to both the bettors and BoB(despite their failure here, they lost both their commision and reputation) could not be considered an act worthy of a scammer title.


I agree that both Luke-Jr. and Josh should be saddled with scammer tags.  Josh even admitted, over at the BFL forum, that this whole thing was just a stunt.  He claimed that he was trying to make a point about Avalon having claimed they "shipped" when they gave that ASIC miner to the Bitcoin Foundation (was it jgarzik or something?).  

Of course, it's much more likely that Josh personally bet on that proposition and that he couldn't stomach the idea of so much money being won by the "trolls" he so despises.  If you read Josh's posts in Micon's betting thread you will see how tilted Josh must have been by the thought of Micon and friends cashing in on his own incompetence.

Luke has admitted that he talks to Josh almost every night from midnight-2:00 AM.  It's now April 9th and it's clear that BFL is not going to be doing any actual shipping anytime soon.  Luke-Jr. can claim that he "received" his "Little Single", but it's very obvious that this was just a gambit meant to cheat the anti-BFL bettors out of their winnings.  

Coinjedi can plead incompetence, but I just don't believe that anyone can be that stupid.  I think he had a stake in the outcome.  He was either bribed/extorted, or he had placed a large pro-BFL wager (more likely).  When these bets were placed, the BTC price was probably a lot lower, so the stakes got much higher.  Also, the way in which coinjedi acted in Luke's delivery thread was suspect.  He came into the thread and asked for opinions.  Then he came back and very suddenly made a final, irreversible decision which completely ignored the requested feedback.  It didn't make any logical sense.  Maybe he had been assured by Josh that BFL shills would back him up in the thread, but they got drowned out in the general outrage.  Anyway, it wasn't the actions of an objective, responsible judge.  I still feel he also deserves a scammer tag.

Several bitcointalk posters keep lists of reputable, BTC gambling related websites.  If anyone sees betsofbitco.in contained on such a list, please request that it be moved to the scammer category.

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April 09, 2013, 05:40:03 PM
 #223

This whole thing has shocked me, hugely.
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April 09, 2013, 05:55:22 PM
 #224

Is it Theymos who single handedly decides who gets the tag? I'd like to hear his thoughts on what Luke and Josh did.

At this point what happened is clear, and is not in dispute as far as I know. I welcome anyone who has any new information or differing stories.

Is there anyone who thinks what they did isn't fraudulent, and deserving of the tag?
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April 09, 2013, 06:05:45 PM
 #225

Also:

Am I naive to think that something will be done here? Many people here tend towards conspiratorial thinking, whereas I tend to think that's generally a lot less likely. But is it possible that due to Luke's contributions as a developer and Josh working for BFL, that this will simply be ignored?
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April 09, 2013, 06:39:12 PM
 #226

Also:

Am I naive to think that something will be done here? Many people here tend towards conspiratorial thinking, whereas I tend to think that's generally a lot less likely. But is it possible that due to Luke's contributions as a developer and Josh working for BFL, that this will simply be ignored?

Absolutely will be ignored. In a coupla months' time I will be the only one bringing this up, and a bunch of newbs who don't know better + a few scammers (such as these you list) who have a vested interest will be claiming I troll.

This has been basically going on for a year+ by now, wash rinse and repeat. Just look in the Tradehill thread at the attempts to wash that cadaver. Look at Meni Rosenfeld's attempts to parlay his "contributions", imaginary such as they are, into a "get out of scam free" card. The forum is replete with examples. Which is why this thread says:

2.3. You read, on this forum, and you discuss with the market participants. You get your pecking order straight. Who are the movers and shakers? Whose word is worth 10k Bitcoins no questions asked and from whom? Why? You get the history straight. Who were the scammers, historically? How did they do it ? What are the patterns? How did the people who matter react, and why? What does that say about them, how does that color their relationships among each other?

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April 09, 2013, 07:05:44 PM
 #227

Honestly, I'm starting to think coinjedi just made a really bad mistake, but with no ill intent. It's a lot of money, and ideally the winners should be paid what they should have won. But it's pretty easy to see who caused this whole situation.

I'd be surprised if coinjedi wasn't angry at Luke and Josh for causing him to undermine the integrity of his site, as well as costing him his comission.

It really doesn't even matter whether or not there was bad intention.  I'm not into mind-reading.  What matters is that the only thing a betting escrow site like BoB has that makes it worth using is a reputation for honesty and integrity, and this involves paying out winning bets, every time. 

If the site doesn't do that and instead steals from the winners and gives to the losers, who cares why it does that?  Nobody with any sense will ever take such a site seriously after such a scam result, even if the site operators are some kind of saintly retards who just don't know why they do what they do.
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April 09, 2013, 07:24:35 PM
 #228

Honestly, I'm starting to think coinjedi just made a really bad mistake, but with no ill intent. It's a lot of money, and ideally the winners should be paid what they should have won. But it's pretty easy to see who caused this whole situation.

I'd be surprised if coinjedi wasn't angry at Luke and Josh for causing him to undermine the integrity of his site, as well as costing him his comission.

It really doesn't even matter whether or not there was bad intention.  I'm not into mind-reading.  What matters is that the only thing a betting escrow site like BoB has that makes it worth using is a reputation for honesty and integrity, and this involves paying out winning bets, every time. 

If the site doesn't do that and instead steals from the winners and gives to the losers, who cares why it does that?  Nobody with any sense will ever take such a site seriously after such a scam result, even if the site operators are some kind of saintly retards who just don't know why they do what they do.

+1

The problem is just as MPOE said, this stuff gets glossed over given enough time and enough new blood here on the forum. Over time people will forget all about this fraud, newbs will just assume that one betting site is just as good as the other. For examples of this please see:

amazingrando(no tag)
gigavps(no tag)

All three participants in this theft should be given scammer tags. While tags aren't end all be all punishments it is at the very least a clear and obvious warning to the uninformed that THIS person is not to be trusted with anything more valuable than a free lolly from the bank's teller window.

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April 09, 2013, 08:09:48 PM
 #229

Last 3 trolls seem to be missing the fact that the bet deadline was at the end of April 1, not the start of it.

1)  do you really think these angry users are all trolls?

2)  IMO you helped BFL manipulate a bet, which is shameful & dishonest.

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April 09, 2013, 08:13:14 PM
 #230

Last 3 trolls seem to be missing the fact that the bet deadline was at the end of April 1, not the start of it.

1)  do you really think these angry users are all trolls?
I think they're sore losers who shouldn't be betting if they can't take responsibility for making sure the bet terms satisfy them.
They should be glad it was declared a draw rather than a win for the pre-April side.

2)  IMO you helped BFL manipulate a bet, which is shameful & dishonest.
All I did was accept a device I paid for.

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April 09, 2013, 08:22:24 PM
 #231

2)  IMO you helped BFL manipulate a bet, which is shameful & dishonest.
All I did was accept a device I paid for.

All betting talk aside..

You paid for it? What about the other users who paid for theirs? That doesn't seem fair. What queue number were you? Would you mind showing proof of purchase? As someone who previously believed in BFL's ability to deliver on promises (a long time ago), it'd mean a lot to me.

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April 09, 2013, 08:25:52 PM
 #232

Last 3 trolls seem to be missing the fact that the bet deadline was at the end of April 1, not the start of it.

1)  do you really think these angry users are all trolls?
I think they're sore losers who shouldn't be betting if they can't take responsibility for making sure the bet terms satisfy them.
They should be glad it was declared a draw rather than a win for the pre-April side.

The bet terms were fine. You and Josh provided misinformation causing the site to grade the bet wrong. You willfully posted deceptive pictures implying that you had recieved a shipment when in fact the pictured were taken at BFL. And Josh falsely reported "shipping" on twitter, and later admitted what you both had done.

You defrauded the public. Please refute that claim. Any sort of logical reasoning why that is not a true statement would be great.
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April 09, 2013, 09:40:40 PM
 #233

Last 3 trolls seem to be missing the fact that the bet deadline was at the end of April 1, not the start of it.

1)  do you really think these angry users are all trolls?
I think they're sore losers who shouldn't be betting if they can't take responsibility for making sure the bet terms satisfy them.
They should be glad it was declared a draw rather than a win for the pre-April side.

Are you even embarrassed to be such a shameless lying sack of shit? 
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April 09, 2013, 10:41:21 PM
 #234

All I did was accept a device I paid for.

Define "accept". Which shipping company delivered the ASIC to your house? When was it delivered?

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April 09, 2013, 11:09:28 PM
 #235

Last 3 trolls seem to be missing the fact that the bet deadline was at the end of April 1, not the start of it.

1)  do you really think these angry users are all trolls?
I think they're sore losers who shouldn't be betting if they can't take responsibility for making sure the bet terms satisfy them.
They should be glad it was declared a draw rather than a win for the pre-April side.

2)  IMO you helped BFL manipulate a bet, which is shameful & dishonest.
All I did was accept a device I paid for.


So you are privileged to receive one because?  Point us in a direction that does not seem weird :/

Provide proof of purchase? (Show it to a trusted mod only! no need for showing this here. At least this is private )

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April 09, 2013, 11:10:17 PM
 #236

Interesting that two of the three people who ordered custom leather products from my brother-in-law are mentioned on this page, and all three have yet to pay, ignoring my past requests of them to kindly do so.

I've never gone public in mentioning their names, nor probably never will, with the exception of this post being somewhat of a clue.

Even though I paid Martin out of my pocket cash for his services, the three items sets on a shelf in his studio as a reminder to him of what possibly Bitcoin is all about. Slowly, but surely I've been changing his way of thinking, but what does he think when he sees threads like this one (of me or of Bitcoin)? Moreover, what do the newbies think when they see said threads? Bitcoins = Gambling = Gambling site owners deciding the outcome to their or some other's benefit?

This episode reeks on so many levels, and to think that a many bitcoiners tried coming to their rescue before this exploded, but to no avail.
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April 09, 2013, 11:14:17 PM
 #237

Interesting that two of the three people who ordered custom leather products from my brother-in-law are mentioned on this page, and all three have yet to pay, ignoring my past requests of them to kindly do so.

I've never gone public in mentioning their names, nor probably never will, with the exception of this post being somewhat of a clue.

Even though I paid Martin out of my pocket cash for his services, the three items sets on a shelf in his studio as a reminder to him of what possibly Bitcoin is all about. Slowly, but surely I've been changing his way of thinking, but what does he think when he sees threads like this one (of me or of Bitcoin)? Moreover, what do the newbies think when they see said threads? Bitcoins = Gambling = Gambling site owners deciding the outcome to their or some other's benefit?

This episode reeks on so many levels, and to think that a many bitcoiners tried coming to their rescue before this exploded, but to no avail.

pics of the leather products?   and where is the rod through the frontal lobe on the avatar?


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April 09, 2013, 11:20:00 PM
 #238

Interesting that two of the three people who ordered custom leather products from my brother-in-law are mentioned on this page, and all three have yet to pay, ignoring my past requests of them to kindly do so.

I've never gone public in mentioning their names, nor probably never will, with the exception of this post being somewhat of a clue.

Even though I paid Martin out of my pocket cash for his services, the three items sets on a shelf in his studio as a reminder to him of what possibly Bitcoin is all about. Slowly, but surely I've been changing his way of thinking, but what does he think when he sees threads like this one (of me or of Bitcoin)? Moreover, what do the newbies think when they see said threads? Bitcoins = Gambling = Gambling site owners deciding the outcome to their or some other's benefit?

This episode reeks on so many levels, and to think that a many bitcoiners tried coming to their rescue before this exploded, but to no avail.

pics of the leather products?   and where is the rod through the frontal lobe on the avatar?

A leather thread does exist on this forum depicting one of the products with permission, whereas the other two no such permission exist, coupled with the designs would possibly give away as to whom they belong to. Apologies if this seems a cop-out answer, but it is what it is. Six-sided stars may or may not be a clue.
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April 09, 2013, 11:24:10 PM
 #239

Interesting that two of the three people who ordered custom leather products from my brother-in-law are mentioned on this page, and all three have yet to pay, ignoring my past requests of them to kindly do so.

I've never gone public in mentioning their names, nor probably never will, with the exception of this post being somewhat of a clue.

Even though I paid Martin out of my pocket cash for his services, the three items sets on a shelf in his studio as a reminder to him of what possibly Bitcoin is all about. Slowly, but surely I've been changing his way of thinking, but what does he think when he sees threads like this one (of me or of Bitcoin)? Moreover, what do the newbies think when they see said threads? Bitcoins = Gambling = Gambling site owners deciding the outcome to their or some other's benefit?

This episode reeks on so many levels, and to think that a many bitcoiners tried coming to their rescue before this exploded, but to no avail.

pics of the leather products?   and where is the rod through the frontal lobe on the avatar?

A leather thread does exist on this forum depicting one of the products with permission, whereas the other two no such permission exist, coupled with the designs would possibly give away as to whom they belong to. Apologies if this seems a cop-out answer, but it is what it is. Six-sided stars may or may not be a clue.
nuff said.   and the rod in the frontal lobe?


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                `+███████#,               
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April 09, 2013, 11:28:33 PM
 #240

Interesting that two of the three people who ordered custom leather products from my brother-in-law are mentioned on this page, and all three have yet to pay, ignoring my past requests of them to kindly do so.

I've never gone public in mentioning their names, nor probably never will, with the exception of this post being somewhat of a clue.

Even though I paid Martin out of my pocket cash for his services, the three items sets on a shelf in his studio as a reminder to him of what possibly Bitcoin is all about. Slowly, but surely I've been changing his way of thinking, but what does he think when he sees threads like this one (of me or of Bitcoin)? Moreover, what do the newbies think when they see said threads? Bitcoins = Gambling = Gambling site owners deciding the outcome to their or some other's benefit?

This episode reeks on so many levels, and to think that a many bitcoiners tried coming to their rescue before this exploded, but to no avail.

pics of the leather products?   and where is the rod through the frontal lobe on the avatar?

A leather thread does exist on this forum depicting one of the products with permission, whereas the other two no such permission exist, coupled with the designs would possibly give away as to whom they belong to. Apologies if this seems a cop-out answer, but it is what it is. Six-sided stars may or may not be a clue.
nuff said.   and the rod in the frontal lobe?

I "push" it up my ass at 3PM daily due to having to honor a bet.  Grin I would provide an image of the rod, but that would give away to whom I lost the bet to.  Grin
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