Bitcoin Forum
November 22, 2017, 02:32:53 AM *
News: Latest stable version of Bitcoin Core: 0.15.1  [Torrent].
 
   Home   Help Search Donate Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 »  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Is this Bitcoin's achilles heel?  (Read 5666 times)
yvv
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1330

Moirai Pre-ICO starts on 28.10.2017


View Profile WWW
April 03, 2013, 09:00:22 PM
 #41

Besides, as I bought up the coins the price would rise creating even more demand and encouraging more hording.

But this is exactly what you want to do to fuck up the community. You buy a lot, while bitcoins are cheap -> btc rate sky rockets -> you make profit, and others suck because they can not buy cheap btc anymore.

         ▀█████▀
▀▄         ███         ▄▀
  █▄       ███       ▄█
   ██      ███      ██
    ██     ███     ██
    ▀██▄▄  ███  ▄▄██▀
      ▀███████████▀
         ▀▀███▀▀
           ███
           ███
           ███
           ███
         ▄█████▄
.MOIRAI.
  ██████
██████
█████
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███

██████
██████
  █████
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
        ███

    ▄█████
    ██████
    ███▀
    ███
███████
███████
    ███
    ███
    ███
    ███
    ███

█▄                ▄████▄
██▄             ███████▄▄▄
▀███▄▄      █████████▄
  ▀███████████████▀
▀████████████████
    ▀█████████████
  ▀█████████████
      ▀▀█████████
    ▄▄████████▀
██████████▀
    ▀▀▀▀▀

                              ▄▄██
                        ▄██████
                  ▄████▀▀███
            ▄█████▀  ▄████
      ▄██████▀  ▄██████
▄███████▀  ▄████████
  ▀▀▀▀███    █████████
            ██    █████████
            ▀█  ▄█▀    ▀████
              ██▀            ▀██
1511317974
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511317974

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511317974
Reply with quote  #2

1511317974
Report to moderator
1511317974
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511317974

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511317974
Reply with quote  #2

1511317974
Report to moderator
1511317974
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511317974

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511317974
Reply with quote  #2

1511317974
Report to moderator
Join ICO Now A blockchain platform for effective freelancing
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1511317974
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1511317974

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1511317974
Reply with quote  #2

1511317974
Report to moderator
GernMiester
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 284


View Profile
April 03, 2013, 09:02:30 PM
 #42

They would also have to grab the entire BTC network to ensure no new coins fell into the "wrong" hands.
conspirosphere.tk
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2198


Revolution will be decentralized


View Profile
April 03, 2013, 09:07:38 PM
 #43

But this is exactly what you want to do to fuck up the community. You buy a lot, while bitcoins are cheap -> btc rate sky rockets -> you make profit, and others suck because they can not buy cheap btc anymore.


The price can stay high/go higher until the influx of suckers ...er, buyers persists. Then the music stops. Moreover at any time the manipulator lose its control/property of any coin he sells/profit from. Of course, if the manipulator has a money printer things could become interesting...
yvv
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1330

Moirai Pre-ICO starts on 28.10.2017


View Profile WWW
April 03, 2013, 10:11:42 PM
 #44



The price can stay high/go higher until the influx of suckers ...er, buyers persists. Then the music stops. Moreover at any time the manipulator lose its control/property of any coin he sells/profit from.

The problem is that if some guy manages to get 51% of all bitcoins in his hands (difficult, but possible), and bitcoin value sky rockets such that few satoshis are enough for living, that guy can buy your ass into life-time anal slavery for a tiny fraction of his assets.

Quote
Of course, if the manipulator has a money printer things could become interesting...

Yeah, such things are really interesting. Is not the original goal of bitcoin (and other alt-money) to make such things impossible?


         ▀█████▀
▀▄         ███         ▄▀
  █▄       ███       ▄█
   ██      ███      ██
    ██     ███     ██
    ▀██▄▄  ███  ▄▄██▀
      ▀███████████▀
         ▀▀███▀▀
           ███
           ███
           ███
           ███
         ▄█████▄
.MOIRAI.
  ██████
██████
█████
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███

██████
██████
  █████
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
        ███

    ▄█████
    ██████
    ███▀
    ███
███████
███████
    ███
    ███
    ███
    ███
    ███

█▄                ▄████▄
██▄             ███████▄▄▄
▀███▄▄      █████████▄
  ▀███████████████▀
▀████████████████
    ▀█████████████
  ▀█████████████
      ▀▀█████████
    ▄▄████████▀
██████████▀
    ▀▀▀▀▀

                              ▄▄██
                        ▄██████
                  ▄████▀▀███
            ▄█████▀  ▄████
      ▄██████▀  ▄██████
▄███████▀  ▄████████
  ▀▀▀▀███    █████████
            ██    █████████
            ▀█  ▄█▀    ▀████
              ██▀            ▀██
wopwop
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 252



View Profile
April 03, 2013, 10:13:30 PM
 #45

bitcoin needs an continious and ever increasing (if usage increases) Energy inflow that someone must pay for
Zomdifros
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 210



View Profile
April 03, 2013, 10:25:20 PM
 #46

Why is this discussion still going on?

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/FAQ#What_if_someone_bought_up_all_the_existing_Bitcoins.3F

yvv
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1330

Moirai Pre-ICO starts on 28.10.2017


View Profile WWW
April 03, 2013, 10:43:06 PM
 #47


Thanks, this clears the question up.

Quote
This situation doesn't suggest, however, that the markets aren't vulnerable to price manipulation. It doesn't take significant amounts of money to move the market price up or down and thus Bitcoin remains a volatile asset.

Flawed by design. Guess, who is going to manipulate the market after all? Smiley

         ▀█████▀
▀▄         ███         ▄▀
  █▄       ███       ▄█
   ██      ███      ██
    ██     ███     ██
    ▀██▄▄  ███  ▄▄██▀
      ▀███████████▀
         ▀▀███▀▀
           ███
           ███
           ███
           ███
         ▄█████▄
.MOIRAI.
  ██████
██████
█████
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███

██████
██████
  █████
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
        ███

    ▄█████
    ██████
    ███▀
    ███
███████
███████
    ███
    ███
    ███
    ███
    ███

█▄                ▄████▄
██▄             ███████▄▄▄
▀███▄▄      █████████▄
  ▀███████████████▀
▀████████████████
    ▀█████████████
  ▀█████████████
      ▀▀█████████
    ▄▄████████▀
██████████▀
    ▀▀▀▀▀

                              ▄▄██
                        ▄██████
                  ▄████▀▀███
            ▄█████▀  ▄████
      ▄██████▀  ▄██████
▄███████▀  ▄████████
  ▀▀▀▀███    █████████
            ██    █████████
            ▀█  ▄█▀    ▀████
              ██▀            ▀██
wopwop
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 252



View Profile
April 03, 2013, 10:53:15 PM
 #48


Thanks, this clears the question up.

Quote
This situation doesn't suggest, however, that the markets aren't vulnerable to price manipulation. It doesn't take significant amounts of money to move the market price up or down and thus Bitcoin remains a volatile asset.

Flawed by design. Guess, who is going to manipulate the market after all? Smiley
mt.gox

they have the most to lose
grondilu
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134


View Profile
April 03, 2013, 10:57:54 PM
 #49

The OP should learn about what a corner is and how it is not as easy as one might think.

Quote
Although there have been many attempts to corner markets by massive purchases in everything from tin to cattle, to date very few of these attempts have ever succeeded; instead, most of these attempted corners have tended to break themselves spontaneously. Indeed, as long ago as 1923, Edwin Lefθvre wrote, "very few of the great corners were profitable to the engineers of them."[2] A cornerer can become vulnerable due to the size of the position, especially if the attempt becomes widely known. If the rest of the market senses weakness, it may resist any attempt to artificially drive the market any further by actively taking opposing positions. If the price starts to move against the cornerer, any attempt by the cornerer to sell would likely cause the price to drop substantially. In such a situation, many other parties could profit from the cornerer's need to unwind the position.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornering_the_market
blockbet.net
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 112


Admin at blockbet.net


View Profile WWW
April 03, 2013, 10:59:09 PM
 #50

The problem is that if some guy manages to get 51% of all bitcoins in his hands (difficult, but possible), and bitcoin value sky rockets such that few satoshis are enough for living, that guy can buy your ass into life-time anal slavery for a tiny fraction of his assets.

Why would that be a problem, exactly? Is it wrong to be rich? That shouldn't affect the rest of us one bit.

Bitcoin Sports Betting online at www.blockbet.net, featuring NBA, NHL, UFC, football (soccer) and international competitions. Fast payouts directly to your wallet, great win odds, no need to register or deposit. Bet in just a few clicks now!
grondilu
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134


View Profile
April 03, 2013, 11:05:44 PM
 #51

The problem is that if some guy manages to get 51% of all bitcoins in his hands (difficult, but possible), and bitcoin value sky rockets such that few satoshis are enough for living, that guy can buy your ass into life-time anal slavery for a tiny fraction of his assets.

Why would that be a problem, exactly? Is it wrong to be rich? That shouldn't affect the rest of us one bit.

Also, the wealth of this person would existsonly because some people would be willing to offer goods and services for those satoshis.  Therefore talking about "anal slavery" is totally inappropriate.   A slave is someone who is forced to obey, not someone who willingly contributes to an economic exchange.
yvv
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1330

Moirai Pre-ICO starts on 28.10.2017


View Profile WWW
April 03, 2013, 11:10:21 PM
 #52


Why would that be a problem, exactly?

What? Getting your ass into slavery? For some individuals not a problem at all. But the majority do not like it. This is why all this bitcoin business came out, right?

Quote
Is it wrong to be rich?

No. If you get rich without making somebody a slave, it's good.

Quote
That shouldn't affect the rest of us one bit.

I don't know. There is a chance that it will.
 

         ▀█████▀
▀▄         ███         ▄▀
  █▄       ███       ▄█
   ██      ███      ██
    ██     ███     ██
    ▀██▄▄  ███  ▄▄██▀
      ▀███████████▀
         ▀▀███▀▀
           ███
           ███
           ███
           ███
         ▄█████▄
.MOIRAI.
  ██████
██████
█████
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███

██████
██████
  █████
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
        ███

    ▄█████
    ██████
    ███▀
    ███
███████
███████
    ███
    ███
    ███
    ███
    ███

█▄                ▄████▄
██▄             ███████▄▄▄
▀███▄▄      █████████▄
  ▀███████████████▀
▀████████████████
    ▀█████████████
  ▀█████████████
      ▀▀█████████
    ▄▄████████▀
██████████▀
    ▀▀▀▀▀

                              ▄▄██
                        ▄██████
                  ▄████▀▀███
            ▄█████▀  ▄████
      ▄██████▀  ▄██████
▄███████▀  ▄████████
  ▀▀▀▀███    █████████
            ██    █████████
            ▀█  ▄█▀    ▀████
              ██▀            ▀██
Gordonium
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 322


View Profile WWW
April 03, 2013, 11:14:39 PM
 #53


Why would that be a problem, exactly?

What? Getting your ass into slavery? For some individuals not a problem at all. But the majority do not like it. This is why all this bitcoin business came out, right?

Quote
Is it wrong to be rich?

No. If you get rich without making somebody a slave, it's good.

Quote
That shouldn't affect the rest of us one bit.

I don't know. There is a chance that it will.
 

Oh, tell me more about how Bill Gates fortune is making you a slave... Like someone on this forum once wrote: Don't fear a man with money, he can only buy things from you. Fear a man with political power, he can take things from you with coercion.

            Š
           ŠŠŠ
          ŠŠŠŠŠ   _
         ŠŠŠ ŠŠŠ_Š―Š
        ŠŠŠ   ŠŠŠ   Š
   Š―――――――――――Š   Š―
  Š           Š   Š―
 ――ŠŠŠŠŠ―――ŠŠŠ   Š
ŠŠ
    ŠŠŠ Š   Š   Š ŠŠŠ
   ŠŠŠ   Š   Š Š   ŠŠŠ
  ŠŠŠŠŠŠŠŠŠ   ŠŠŠŠŠŠŠŠŠ
 ―
―――――――――Š   ŠŠ――――――
            Š___Š
  _Š
_ŠŠŠ

ŠŠŠŠ    _
ŠŠŠŠ  _ŠŠ

ŠŠŠŠ ŠŠŠŠ
ŠŠŠŠ ŠŠŠŠ

ŠŠŠŠ ŠŠŠŠ
ŠŠŠŠ ŠŠŠŠ

ŠŠŠŠ ŠŠŠŠ
ŠŠ―  ŠŠŠŠ

    ŠŠŠŠ
     ŠŠŠ―
     Š―
A  G A M I N G  R E V O L U T I O N  I S  O N  T H E  W A Y
|      FACEBOOK      |      SLACK      ――――      WHITEPAPER      ――――      TWITTER      |      TELEGRAM      |
  _Š
_ŠŠŠ

ŠŠŠŠ    _
ŠŠŠŠ  _ŠŠ

ŠŠŠŠ ŠŠŠŠ
ŠŠŠŠ ŠŠŠŠ

ŠŠŠŠ ŠŠŠŠ
ŠŠŠŠ ŠŠŠŠ

ŠŠŠŠ ŠŠŠŠ
ŠŠ―  ŠŠŠŠ

    ŠŠŠŠ
     ŠŠŠ―
     Š―
yvv
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1330

Moirai Pre-ICO starts on 28.10.2017


View Profile WWW
April 03, 2013, 11:18:01 PM
 #54


Also, the wealth of this person would existsonly because some people would be willing to offer goods and services for those satoshis.  Therefore talking about "anal slavery" is totally inappropriate.   A slave is someone who is forced to obey, not someone who willingly contributes to an economic exchange.

If you google for "history of humankind", you may find out that most of time people were getting into slavery pressed by financial force, not military or other brute force. This is how modern "democratic" world got into banker's slavery. Is a purpose of altcurrencies to free people from this kind of slaver, or did I miss something?

         ▀█████▀
▀▄         ███         ▄▀
  █▄       ███       ▄█
   ██      ███      ██
    ██     ███     ██
    ▀██▄▄  ███  ▄▄██▀
      ▀███████████▀
         ▀▀███▀▀
           ███
           ███
           ███
           ███
         ▄█████▄
.MOIRAI.
  ██████
██████
█████
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███

██████
██████
  █████
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
        ███

    ▄█████
    ██████
    ███▀
    ███
███████
███████
    ███
    ███
    ███
    ███
    ███

█▄                ▄████▄
██▄             ███████▄▄▄
▀███▄▄      █████████▄
  ▀███████████████▀
▀████████████████
    ▀█████████████
  ▀█████████████
      ▀▀█████████
    ▄▄████████▀
██████████▀
    ▀▀▀▀▀

                              ▄▄██
                        ▄██████
                  ▄████▀▀███
            ▄█████▀  ▄████
      ▄██████▀  ▄██████
▄███████▀  ▄████████
  ▀▀▀▀███    █████████
            ██    █████████
            ▀█  ▄█▀    ▀████
              ██▀            ▀██
Elwar
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2282


www.bitpools.com


View Profile WWW
April 03, 2013, 11:21:40 PM
 #55

Ok guys, we may as well give it up. We have all been trying to cover up this flaw in the system so that the government does not enact this strategy.

I will be the bigger man and step forward to tell the truth. This is a huge vulnerability.

The US government and the Federal Reserve could wipe us all out by pouring tons and tons of money into Bitcoin.

I hope they do not do that, it would be so disasterous that I cannot imagine.

But we must admit this and hope that no Federal agent or someone close to the Federal Reserve reveals this to them, otherwise they may just go ahead and destroy Bitcoin by buying over and over and over.

I am just glad that no government officials are reading this now. If they were, I hope they would not go to their bosses with multi-billion dollar proposals to buy everyone's bitcoins. They would likely become heros among their peers and get laid...a LOT...once it all works.

http://www.bitpools.com
Pool your bitcoins with others. Vote on solutions using the Bitcoin blockchain. Keep your bitcoins in your cold storage until you find a solution you like.
Links and Reviews of useful every day places to spend bitcoins: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=943143.0
yvv
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1330

Moirai Pre-ICO starts on 28.10.2017


View Profile WWW
April 03, 2013, 11:28:06 PM
 #56


Oh, tell me more about how Bill Gates fortune is making you a slave...


Can you read English, dude? I wrote

Quote
Quote
Is it wrong to be rich?
No. If you get rich without making somebody a slave, it's good.


Quote
Like someone on this forum once wrote: Don't fear a man with money, he can only buy things from you. Fear a man with political power, he can take things from you with coercion.

A man with money has much greater chance to take political power than anybody else. 

         ▀█████▀
▀▄         ███         ▄▀
  █▄       ███       ▄█
   ██      ███      ██
    ██     ███     ██
    ▀██▄▄  ███  ▄▄██▀
      ▀███████████▀
         ▀▀███▀▀
           ███
           ███
           ███
           ███
         ▄█████▄
.MOIRAI.
  ██████
██████
█████
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███

██████
██████
  █████
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
        ███

    ▄█████
    ██████
    ███▀
    ███
███████
███████
    ███
    ███
    ███
    ███
    ███

█▄                ▄████▄
██▄             ███████▄▄▄
▀███▄▄      █████████▄
  ▀███████████████▀
▀████████████████
    ▀█████████████
  ▀█████████████
      ▀▀█████████
    ▄▄████████▀
██████████▀
    ▀▀▀▀▀

                              ▄▄██
                        ▄██████
                  ▄████▀▀███
            ▄█████▀  ▄████
      ▄██████▀  ▄██████
▄███████▀  ▄████████
  ▀▀▀▀███    █████████
            ██    █████████
            ▀█  ▄█▀    ▀████
              ██▀            ▀██
grondilu
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134


View Profile
April 03, 2013, 11:33:18 PM
 #57

If you google for "history of humankind", you may find out that most of time people were getting into slavery pressed by financial force, not military or other brute force. This is how modern "democratic" world got into banker's slavery. Is a purpose of altcurrencies to free people from this kind of slaver, or did I miss something?

You miss a lot.

Let's say I manage to buy ten million bitcoins.  Now, tell me: how exactly can I force you to wipe my shoes if you don't want to?  Nobody forces you to accept my bitcoins as a wage for your work!!

People could just say:  "this guy has gathered pretty much all the bitcoins.  Screw him, let's start an other chain from scratch!"
yvv
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1330

Moirai Pre-ICO starts on 28.10.2017


View Profile WWW
April 03, 2013, 11:41:11 PM
 #58


People could just say:  "this guy has gathered pretty much all the bitcoins.  Screw him, let's start an other chain from scratch!"

People already did what you say. There is a separate thread on this forum https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=134179.0 Unfortunately, none of these altcoins fix any bitcoin flaws. All this work is done by smart people, and they will find good fix against all threats, I am pretty confident. But, we are not there yet.




         ▀█████▀
▀▄         ███         ▄▀
  █▄       ███       ▄█
   ██      ███      ██
    ██     ███     ██
    ▀██▄▄  ███  ▄▄██▀
      ▀███████████▀
         ▀▀███▀▀
           ███
           ███
           ███
           ███
         ▄█████▄
.MOIRAI.
  ██████
██████
█████
███
███
███
███
███
███
███
███

██████
██████
  █████
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
      ███
        ███

    ▄█████
    ██████
    ███▀
    ███
███████
███████
    ███
    ███
    ███
    ███
    ███

█▄                ▄████▄
██▄             ███████▄▄▄
▀███▄▄      █████████▄
  ▀███████████████▀
▀████████████████
    ▀█████████████
  ▀█████████████
      ▀▀█████████
    ▄▄████████▀
██████████▀
    ▀▀▀▀▀

                              ▄▄██
                        ▄██████
                  ▄████▀▀███
            ▄█████▀  ▄████
      ▄██████▀  ▄██████
▄███████▀  ▄████████
  ▀▀▀▀███    █████████
            ██    █████████
            ▀█  ▄█▀    ▀████
              ██▀            ▀██
Gordonium
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 322


View Profile WWW
April 03, 2013, 11:42:37 PM
 #59

A man with money has much greater chance to take political power than anybody else. 

But in a libertarian society where government is constitutionally limited it political power doesn't matter that much. So it is not money itself that can force you into a slavery.

            Š
           ŠŠŠ
          ŠŠŠŠŠ   _
         ŠŠŠ ŠŠŠ_Š―Š
        ŠŠŠ   ŠŠŠ   Š
   Š―――――――――――Š   Š―
  Š           Š   Š―
 ――ŠŠŠŠŠ―――ŠŠŠ   Š
ŠŠ
    ŠŠŠ Š   Š   Š ŠŠŠ
   ŠŠŠ   Š   Š Š   ŠŠŠ
  ŠŠŠŠŠŠŠŠŠ   ŠŠŠŠŠŠŠŠŠ
 ―
―――――――――Š   ŠŠ――――――
            Š___Š
  _Š
_ŠŠŠ

ŠŠŠŠ    _
ŠŠŠŠ  _ŠŠ

ŠŠŠŠ ŠŠŠŠ
ŠŠŠŠ ŠŠŠŠ

ŠŠŠŠ ŠŠŠŠ
ŠŠŠŠ ŠŠŠŠ

ŠŠŠŠ ŠŠŠŠ
ŠŠ―  ŠŠŠŠ

    ŠŠŠŠ
     ŠŠŠ―
     Š―
A  G A M I N G  R E V O L U T I O N  I S  O N  T H E  W A Y
|      FACEBOOK      |      SLACK      ――――      WHITEPAPER      ――――      TWITTER      |      TELEGRAM      |
  _Š
_ŠŠŠ

ŠŠŠŠ    _
ŠŠŠŠ  _ŠŠ

ŠŠŠŠ ŠŠŠŠ
ŠŠŠŠ ŠŠŠŠ

ŠŠŠŠ ŠŠŠŠ
ŠŠŠŠ ŠŠŠŠ

ŠŠŠŠ ŠŠŠŠ
ŠŠ―  ŠŠŠŠ

    ŠŠŠŠ
     ŠŠŠ―
     Š―
grondilu
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1134


View Profile
April 03, 2013, 11:44:48 PM
 #60


People could just say:  "this guy has gathered pretty much all the bitcoins.  Screw him, let's start an other chain from scratch!"

People already did what you say. There is a separate thread on this forum https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=134179.0

I know they did.  Then why do you whine about a possible corner of bitcoin?
Pages: « 1 2 [3] 4 »  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!