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Author Topic: Not so "decentralized" currency...  (Read 1578 times)
ehoffman
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April 03, 2013, 02:15:32 PM
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So, it's ironic to see how a supposedly "decentralized" currency get halted because a single site is down...  Well, the protocol itself is immune, but the market value is basically on hold worldwide...

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piramida
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April 03, 2013, 02:17:11 PM
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What you mean "on hold"? MtGox USD/BTC ratio is on hold, yes, but why not log into bitstamp or any of the other 20 exchanges and trade all you want?

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mccorvic
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April 03, 2013, 02:17:54 PM
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What you mean "on hold"? MtGox USD/BTC ratio is on hold, yes, but why not log into bitstamp or any of the other 20 exchanges and trade all you want?

Yup.

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April 03, 2013, 02:18:34 PM
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So true...

Its because people only use 1 site to trade on...

There are tons of other exchanges to use: http://yellowcoins.com/bitcoin/Exchanges/

People... use other exchanges where possible... Especially anyone from Europe has better options than "The Gox"

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April 03, 2013, 02:20:10 PM
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Yes there are other exchanges, but most merchants are tied to Gox for the exchange rate.
ehoffman
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April 03, 2013, 02:20:48 PM
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Sure, but if you look everywhere, I'm pretty sure everyone is pretty much on hold.  MtGox act like as a master reference.  If it goes up, others follow.  It goes down, other follows.  It's rarely Gox that follow others.  Everyone is waiting for Gox right now to decide if we'll crash or not on Gox re-entry...

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April 03, 2013, 02:21:02 PM
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Many of the exchanges are being DDOS attacked at the moment.
Newscastix
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April 03, 2013, 02:23:04 PM
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Yes there are other exchanges, but most merchants are tied to Gox for the exchange rate.

How does that work? One cannot just dictate the price... Price depends on supply and demand... and if one exchange differs vastly, the arbitragers come to make some buck and it evens out....
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April 03, 2013, 02:27:33 PM
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The exchanges are arbitraged, but nothing prevents the price from going down ($130 at bitstamp at the moment) or up even if gox is completely gone. But I agree, it's a good thing that Gox gets hit often, people will spread the trading out so other exchanges have more volume.

As for merchants, they use bitpay and don't care about the exchange. All risks and exchanges used are up to processor (bitpay) and they work just fine now.

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wopwop
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April 03, 2013, 02:29:14 PM
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people dont give a shit about other exchanges

you only exchange AAPL on one exchange (NASDAQ), not several
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April 03, 2013, 02:30:13 PM
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Yes there are other exchanges, but most merchants are tied to Gox for the exchange rate.

How does that work? One cannot just dictate the price... Price depends on supply and demand... and if one exchange differs vastly, the arbitragers come to make some buck and it evens out....

Don't understand your comment. Of course price depends on supply and demand, and arbitrage can even out price difference across exchanges, but this isn't relevant to my point. I'm talking about merchants who need an exchange rate to price goods and services in BTC. Every BTC merchant I've seen looks to Gox for this. If Gox is down, these merchants are flying blind (though maybe some have a back up plan for this - I don't know).  
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April 03, 2013, 02:33:38 PM
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Don't understand your comment. Of course price depends on supply and demand, and arbitrage can even out price difference across exchanges, but this isn't relevant to my point. I'm talking about merchants who need an exchange rate to price goods and services in BTC. Every BTC merchant I've seen looks to Gox for this. If Gox is down, these merchants are flying blind (though maybe some have a back up plan for this - I don't know).  

Which merchants look to gox? what for? which year is it now? There are several bitcoin payment processors; and if you wish to get fiat for your goods, you can be completely isolated from the going rate of BTC, and that's what most if not all merchants do. Now back to your misinformation - link to at least one merchant who is looking at gox for prices?

i am satoshi
BitcoinTate
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April 03, 2013, 02:35:33 PM
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Don't understand your comment. Of course price depends on supply and demand, and arbitrage can even out price difference across exchanges, but this isn't relevant to my point. I'm talking about merchants who need an exchange rate to price goods and services in BTC. Every BTC merchant I've seen looks to Gox for this. If Gox is down, these merchants are flying blind (though maybe some have a back up plan for this - I don't know).  

Which merchants look to gox? what for? which year is it now? There are several bitcoin payment processors; and if you wish to get fiat for your goods, you can be completely isolated from the going rate of BTC, and that's what most if not all merchants do. Now back to your misinformation - link to at least one merchant who is looking at gox for prices?
Coinbase for one.

- aka The "DigiMan"
Newscastix
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April 03, 2013, 02:37:00 PM
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Yes there are other exchanges, but most merchants are tied to Gox for the exchange rate.

How does that work? One cannot just dictate the price... Price depends on supply and demand... and if one exchange differs vastly, the arbitragers come to make some buck and it evens out....

Don't understand your comment. Of course price depends on supply and demand, and arbitrage can even out price difference across exchanges, but this isn't relevant to my point. I'm talking about merchants who need an exchange rate to price goods and services in BTC. Every BTC merchant I've seen looks to Gox for this. If Gox is down, these merchants are flying blind (though maybe some have a back up plan for this - I don't know).  

Ah ok, i was talking about exchanges. For merchants you are right. I'd use the Gox price too as a merchant just because it has the highest trading volume and sorta "makes the price".
piramida
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April 03, 2013, 02:40:52 PM
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Coinbase for one.

But I can buy coins at coinbase now: "Success! Your purchase completed successfully." 5 seconds ago. What gives? Whatever exchange risks there are, they are isolated from goods merchants by btc processors (and coinbase is one of those).

i am satoshi
wopwop
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April 03, 2013, 02:42:43 PM
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Coinbase for one.

But I can buy coins at coinbase now: "Success! Your purchase completed successfully." 5 seconds ago. What gives? Whatever exchange risks there are, they are isolated from goods merchants by btc processors (and coinbase is one of those).

if the price of bitcoin goes too high compared to theprice you locked at the time your funds go thru they'll cancel your order
BitcoinTate
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April 03, 2013, 02:46:08 PM
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Coinbase for one.

But I can buy coins at coinbase now: "Success! Your purchase completed successfully." 5 seconds ago. What gives? Whatever exchange risks there are, they are isolated from goods merchants by btc processors (and coinbase is one of those).

Did you get your price locked in or did you check the box that says they will use the exchange rate when your funds arrive 5 days from now? Big difference.

- aka The "DigiMan"
Dargo
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April 03, 2013, 02:47:10 PM
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Don't understand your comment. Of course price depends on supply and demand, and arbitrage can even out price difference across exchanges, but this isn't relevant to my point. I'm talking about merchants who need an exchange rate to price goods and services in BTC. Every BTC merchant I've seen looks to Gox for this. If Gox is down, these merchants are flying blind (though maybe some have a back up plan for this - I don't know).  

Which merchants look to gox? what for? which year is it now? There are several bitcoin payment processors; and if you wish to get fiat for your goods, you can be completely isolated from the going rate of BTC, and that's what most if not all merchants do. Now back to your misinformation - link to at least one merchant who is looking at gox for prices?
Coinbase for one.

bitcoinstore usually tracks Gox pretty closely as well, though at the moment their exchange rate is quite a bit lower (137.5), but I don't know how they are getting that. I would be happy to be wrong about this, and I could very well be, since it's just casual observation on my part that the merchants I've seen seem to be tracking Gox exchange rate.

https://www.bitcoinstore.com/
piramida
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April 03, 2013, 02:50:56 PM
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Did you get your price locked in or did you check the box that says they will use the exchange rate when your funds arrive 5 days from now? Big difference.

No, I bought at the quoted price (141.60). That difference I know Smiley

bitcoinstore usually tracks Gox pretty closely as well, though at the moment their exchange rate is quite a bit lower (137.5), but I don't know how they are getting that. I would be happy to be wrong about this, and I could very well be, since it's just casual observation on my part that the merchants I've seen seem to be tracking Gox exchange rate.

https://www.bitcoinstore.com/

They don't look to gox for anything - they use bitpay, which has their own price estimation based on what price they managed to sell their coins (which they do immediately), so the price is guaranteed to merchant - if they sell something for 100 USD it's 100 USD they get when the item sells.

i am satoshi
Dargo
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April 03, 2013, 03:06:43 PM
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Did you get your price locked in or did you check the box that says they will use the exchange rate when your funds arrive 5 days from now? Big difference.

No, I bought at the quoted price (141.60). That difference I know Smiley

bitcoinstore usually tracks Gox pretty closely as well, though at the moment their exchange rate is quite a bit lower (137.5), but I don't know how they are getting that. I would be happy to be wrong about this, and I could very well be, since it's just casual observation on my part that the merchants I've seen seem to be tracking Gox exchange rate.

https://www.bitcoinstore.com/

They don't look to gox for anything - they use bitpay, which has their own price estimation based on what price they managed to sell their coins (which they do immediately), so the price is guaranteed to merchant - if they sell something for 100 USD it's 100 USD they get when the item sells.

OK, good. But how does bitpay sell their coins? I assume they have a variety of ways, but isn't Gox one of the major ways? I don't think bitcoin is somehow centralized because of Gox, but I do think Gox is relied on too heavily, even if it is just for trading and not any merchant activity. Sort of reminds me of deepbit back in the day when it was much larger than any other pool (even though IMO it wasn't the best pool). 
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