If you don't pay the fees, you will be BLOCK.

[Meuh6879]

https://tradeblock.com/bitcoin/



and https://blockchain.info/unconfirmed-transactions

---

use this to understand : https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Transaction_fees#Fee_Plotting_Sites

[prabowo96]

Other day I was thinking, where goes/stay the unconfirmed transactions? It stay on the blockchain too?

Well, maybe we can stop sending btc for 24 hours, one day per year to unstuck this transactions...

And what happens if we got a flood of 1 satoshi transactions without fee?

[AgentofCoin]

Other day I was thinking, where goes/stay the unconfirmed transactions? It stay on the blockchain too?

Well, maybe we can stop sending btc for 24 hours, one day per year to unstuck this transactions...

And what happens if we got a flood of 1 satoshi transactions without fee?

Unconfirmed transaction are not stored in the Bitcoin blockchain.
They are temporary held in the memory pool of all Bitcoin nodes in the network.
When a miner "finds" a block and "adds" transactions into that block, they are
removed from the memory pools and written into the blockchain.

After a few days, if a tx does not enter a block, those pending txs will be automatically
dropped from the memory pool and "returned" to the original address. Then the tx will
need to be performed again with an appropriate fee.

All txs that have no fee or a very low fee, are usually ignored by a majority of nodes
in the network. During "spam attacks" most nodes are set to ignore those "attack txs".

[prabowo96]

Other day I was thinking, where goes/stay the unconfirmed transactions? It stay on the blockchain too?

Well, maybe we can stop sending btc for 24 hours, one day per year to unstuck this transactions...

And what happens if we got a flood of 1 satoshi transactions without fee?

Unconfirmed transaction are not stored in the Bitcoin blockchain.
They are temporary held in the memory pool of all Bitcoin nodes in the network.
When a miner "finds" a block and "adds" transactions into that block, they are
removed from the memory pools and written into the blockchain.

After a few days, if a tx does not enter a block, those pending txs will be automatically
dropped from the memory pool and "returned" to the original address. Then the tx will
need to be performed again with an appropriate fee.

All txs that have no fee or a very low fee, are usually ignored by a majority of nodes
in the network. During "spam attacks" most nodes are set to ignore those "attack txs".

Thanks, I was thinking that this transactions will stay there on queue forever...

So if you need to send an amount without priority and put a very small fee, it will be back to your address if not confirmed? Have a exactly "days" to this amount return or is something randon?

[AgentofCoin]

Other day I was thinking, where goes/stay the unconfirmed transactions? It stay on the blockchain too?

Well, maybe we can stop sending btc for 24 hours, one day per year to unstuck this transactions...

And what happens if we got a flood of 1 satoshi transactions without fee?

Unconfirmed transaction are not stored in the Bitcoin blockchain.
They are temporary held in the memory pool of all Bitcoin nodes in the network.
When a miner "finds" a block and "adds" transactions into that block, they are
removed from the memory pools and written into the blockchain.

After a few days, if a tx does not enter a block, those pending txs will be automatically
dropped from the memory pool and "returned" to the original address. Then the tx will
need to be performed again with an appropriate fee.

All txs that have no fee or a very low fee, are usually ignored by a majority of nodes
in the network. During "spam attacks" most nodes are set to ignore those "attack txs".

Thanks, I was thinking that this transactions will stay there on queue forever...

So if you need to send an amount without priority and put a very small fee, it will be back to your address if not confirmed? Have a exactly "days" to this amount return or is something randon?

Technically, the bitcoins never left your address until they are confirmed within a block.
Your wallet software just reduces your amount of bitcoins for appearances and convenience.
So, it never really "returns" to your wallet, since it never left, since it only leaves when you get
into a block. So when most nodes drop your tx, your wallet makes the hidden btc reappear.

But to answer your question, my understanding is that most nodes drop old pending txs after 3 days.

Also, it is important to remember that if you underpaid a fee and want to redo the tx, you can
perform a doublespend with a higher fee and it will cause the nodes to drop invalidate your old tx.

[BingoDog]

To avoid beeing blocked I don't like to use customised fees, I like to use recommended ones. I have experiences with unconfirmed transactions but at the end everything went well so I haven't experienced the loss of my coins because of fees.

[clickerz]

Other day I was thinking, where goes/stay the unconfirmed transactions? It stay on the blockchain too?

Well, maybe we can stop sending btc for 24 hours, one day per year to unstuck this transactions...

And what happens if we got a flood of 1 satoshi transactions without fee?

Your post made me think,how about that scenario will happen. Is there a limit that if the transaction is not processed say for 3 days,it will be automatically cancelled? Can we have a blockchain holiday for one day in a year?

[tenk]

Other day I was thinking, where goes/stay the unconfirmed transactions? It stay on the blockchain too?

Well, maybe we can stop sending btc for 24 hours, one day per year to unstuck this transactions...

And what happens if we got a flood of 1 satoshi transactions without fee?

Unconfirmed transaction are not stored in the Bitcoin blockchain.
They are temporary held in the memory pool of all Bitcoin nodes in the network.
When a miner "finds" a block and "adds" transactions into that block, they are
removed from the memory pools and written into the blockchain.

After a few days, if a tx does not enter a block, those pending txs will be automatically
dropped from the memory pool and "returned" to the original address. Then the tx will
need to be performed again with an appropriate fee.

All txs that have no fee or a very low fee, are usually ignored by a majority of nodes
in the network. During "spam attacks" most nodes are set to ignore those "attack txs".

Thanks, I was thinking that this transactions will stay there on queue forever...

So if you need to send an amount without priority and put a very small fee, it will be back to your address if not confirmed? Have a exactly "days" to this amount return or is something randon?

Technically, the bitcoins never left your address until they are confirmed within a block.
Your wallet software just reduces your amount of bitcoins for appearances and convenience.
So, it never really "returns" to your wallet, since it never left, since it only leaves when you get
into a block. So when most nodes drop your tx, your wallet makes the hidden btc reappear.

But to answer your question, my understanding is that most nodes drop old pending txs after 3 days.

Also, it is important to remember that if you underpaid a fee and want to redo the tx, you can
perform a doublespend with a higher fee and it will cause the nodes to drop invalidate your old tx.

This is very informative. I currently have a transaction which has been stuck for more than 36 hours. The weird thing is, I used the recommended fees of my wallet to send the coins over. Blockchain.info is saying that it is on medium priority and will confirm within 6 blocks. However, I think there has been more than 6 blocks since I sent it.

I got a few questions, I hope you can answer for me.

1. Can I cancel a pending btc transaction which has been stuck?
2. How do you double spend? Is this possible with every wallet? (I'm currently using bitwallet on ios)

[Mastsetad]

To avoid beeing blocked I don't like to use customised fees, I like to use recommended ones. I have experiences with unconfirmed transactions but at the end everything went well so I haven't experienced the loss of my coins because of fees.

Same here, i usually use Xapo for transaction but whenever i use blockchain then i just use recommended fees for the transaction and i never faced any problems like unconfirmed transactions or transaction getting blocked and never reaching the destination.

[Kprawn]

The Satoshi block limits makes sense when you see the stupid things being done to sabotage Bitcoin. The problem is, Bitcoin bounce back

every time, and these idiots just lose money. These tactics are part of a desperate group of people, who think this would bring down the

Blockchain. All the more reason to fight back harder than before... 

[amaclin]

But to answer your question, my understanding is that most nodes drop old pending txs after 3 days.

... and some other nodes resend pending txs after 4 days  

for example, go to https://blockchain.info/rejected
take the link with this comment "The Maximum Very Small Inputs Exceeded. Expected at least (150000) satoshi fee"
[copy] txid for a transaction which was rejected by bc.i today
then go to https://tradeblock.com/bitcoin/
[paste] the txid and get the original date when this transaction first time appeared on the network
have fun.

[Oralmat]

To avoid beeing blocked I don't like to use customised fees, I like to use recommended ones. I have experiences with unconfirmed transactions but at the end everything went well so I haven't experienced the loss of my coins because of fees.

I think we should not alter the by default fee which is being shown in the wallets, when we send the payment. If the fee is low, it will take a lot of time for the confirmations to happen. And of course if the fee is nil, the transaction will never be confirmed.

Also i think if you want to give zero fee, you can use wallets like coin-base or Xapo, which offers zero tx fee for their customers

[BAGOBO]

Luckily I'm always pay appropiate fee and never use custom fee that risk me many bad things such like slow confirmation.
And after I read this topic, I'm getting learn better and better about a fee

[Dabs]

Just pay the fee shown by "estimate fee 25" or higher. Sure, it may look like a lot, sometimes many thousands of satoshis... but, that's one way to get included in a block.

[AgentofCoin]

But to answer your question, my understanding is that most nodes drop old pending txs after 3 days.

... and some other nodes resend pending txs after 4 days  

for example, go to https://blockchain.info/rejected
take the link with this comment "The Maximum Very Small Inputs Exceeded. Expected at least (150000) satoshi fee"
[copy] txid for a transaction which was rejected by bc.i today
then go to https://tradeblock.com/bitcoin/
[paste] the txid and get the original date when this transaction first time appeared on the network
have fun.

Nodes do not continue to push txs that have already been propagated throughout the network.
They all pass it on until the whole node network is aware of that specific tx.

What you are pointing to are either custom programs that are either broken or being malicious,
and are purposefully pushing txs that are either invalid, too low of a fee, doublespent, or spam.

For the average user, their bitcoins will "return" to their wallets after 3 days.

[socks435]

Luckily I'm always pay appropiate fee and never use custom fee that risk me many bad things such like slow confirmation.
And after I read this topic, I'm getting learn better and better about a fee

I experience this happening few days ago that i pay low fee and it takes a long transaction to be confirm and according to electrum wallet that i use you can choose what block and fee you can set low fee within 25 blocks or below so i choose next block can be confirm and my transaction is fast than paying low fee..

[amaclin]

Nodes do not continue to push txs that have already been propagated throughout the network.
They all pass it on until the whole node network is aware of that specific tx.

Nodes are not obliged to push txs that have already been propagated throughout the network.
But some of them have a patches which push non-confirmed transactions over and over again.
This behaviour is not invalid or misbehaviour.

[AgentofCoin]

Nodes do not continue to push txs that have already been propagated throughout the network.
They all pass it on until the whole node network is aware of that specific tx.

Nodes are not obliged to push txs that have already been propagated throughout the network.
But some of them have a patches which push non-confirmed transactions over and over again.
This behaviour is not invalid or misbehaviour.

What would be a legitimate reason to push non-confirmed transactions over and over?
Isn't re-boradcasting it over and over and keeping it in the mempool just adding to the
problem as to why it wasn't confirm the first time?

It is understandable if your tx is good and after a few days you repush it when a bottle
neck is over, but nodes pushing for weeks or months seems like misbehavior.

[amaclin]

What would be a legitimate reason to push non-confirmed transactions over and over?

Do we need a reason to broadcast valid non-confirmed transaction to a peer?

Isn't re-boradcasting it over and over and keeping it in the mempool just adding to the
problem as to

I do not know.

why it wasn't confirm the first time?

traffic jams? lack space in blocks?

It is understandable if your tx is good and after a few days you repush it when a bottle
neck is over, but nodes pushing for weeks or months seems like misbehavior.

No, it is not understandable.
You have a right to locate all such nodes and punish their owners.
You also have a right to keep forever all tx hashes for the transactions you have deleted and ban
the peers which re-send these transactions.  

[sillug]

Other day I was thinking, where goes/stay the unconfirmed transactions? It stay on the blockchain too?

Well, maybe we can stop sending btc for 24 hours, one day per year to unstuck this transactions...

And what happens if we got a flood of 1 satoshi transactions without fee?

The answer to the flood of transaction would interest me very much. No bad idea involved of course ...

[amaclin]

And what happens if we got a flood of 1 satoshi transactions without fee?

nothing happens. most of clients ignore these dust transactions.

[AgentofCoin]

What would be a legitimate reason to push non-confirmed transactions over and over?

Do we need a reason to broadcast valid non-confirmed transaction to a peer?

Yes, so all peers will propagate that valid unconfirmed tx.
But why push a valid unconfirmed tx that shall not be accepted into any valid block ever?

Isn't re-boradcasting it over and over and keeping it in the mempool just adding to the
problem as to

I do not know.

Isn't that a memory usage attack vector?

It is understandable if your tx is good and after a few days you repush it when a bottle
neck is over, but nodes pushing for weeks or months seems like misbehavior.

No, it is not understandable.
You have a right to locate all such nodes and punish their owners.
You also have a right to keep forever all tx hashes for the transactions you have deleted and ban
the peers which re-send these transactions.  

Here is the question then:
Can Bitcoin attacks and attack vectors be a malicious act or a misbehavior in your eyes?
Or since it is doable or executable, it is always a justly act and there can be no injurious acts.

[amaclin]

But why push a valid unconfirmed tx that shall not be accepted into any valid block ever?

It shall.
For example the transaction
https://tradeblock.com/bitcoin/tx/2fb06fec2d549f1d05158f4a7a0812b50e7bb7cadf1697584e194ba01397886d
was discovered on the network 8 Oct 2015 and confirmed 25 oct 2016
It was pushed by somebody over and over until confirmation succeded.
And there are a lot of such transactions

Isn't that a memory usage attack vector?

May be. But nodes can limit the size of mempool today

Here is the question then:
Can Bitcoin attacks and attack vectors be a malicious act or a misbehavior in your eyes?

If there is no code in sources which treat this as misbehavior - this is not misbehavior, but
a consensus of network usage. Sorry, my English is poor, I am not sure that I got a question
correctly and my answer is clear.

[Dabs]

https://tradeblock.com/bitcoin/tx/2fb06fec2d549f1d05158f4a7a0812b50e7bb7cadf1697584e194ba01397886d
was discovered on the network 8 Oct 2015 and confirmed 25 oct 2016

So someone doesn't want to pay a 0.0005 BTC (or 0.34 USD) fee and is willing to wait a year ... ... yeah, the total amount was rather small so, I can understand.

[AgentofCoin]

But why push a valid unconfirmed tx that shall not be accepted into any valid block ever?

It shall.
For example the transaction
https://tradeblock.com/bitcoin/tx/2fb06fec2d549f1d05158f4a7a0812b50e7bb7cadf1697584e194ba01397886d
was discovered on the network 8 Oct 2015 and confirmed 25 oct 2016
It was pushed by somebody over and over until confirmation succeded.
And there are a lot of such transactions

Ok. I'm pretty surprised that a miner would mine that type of tx today.

In the future, those dust amounts would in theory be worth more, so they will become
common again as time goes on, but currently that is a lot of data added to the blockchain
for just $0.58 USD. The mining cost to add that tx to the chain must have been at least $1.28 USD.

But I guess you are correct, there are some re-broadcasts that are "neutral".

[pooya87]

i think it is worth mentioning that we are back to normal levels again:


i am so curious about this, because to be honest i wasn't expecting 40K+ unconfirmed transactions that took nearly 2 days to build up go down to normal level of <5K in only a day!

[amaclin]

Ok. I'm pretty surprised that a miner would mine that type of tx today.

Why not?
Miners are interested in fees
If there are no high-fee txs - they do confirm txs with low fee even these txs are 1 year old and created by spamer
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1175321.0

[mobnepal]

Actually i think majority of low fee to no fee transaction are being sent by newbies to bitcoin as well as for spam attacks to bitcoin network. And also it will be quite confusing for new bitcoin users to calculate their transaction size before sending bitcoin using web wallets and if that wallet doesn't provide automatic recommended fee detection system, users will try to use whatever they like (usually low to minimize fee cost) making their transaction stucked which make them fear even more dealing with bitcoin in future.

I think Web wallet should focus on implementing fee recommendation system (i have seen this in few), users need to be more aware of importance of transactions fees to have less unconfirmed transactions in future.

[Kakmakr]

Actually i think majority of low fee to no fee transaction are being sent by newbies to bitcoin as well as for spam attacks to bitcoin network. And also it will be quite confusing for new bitcoin users to calculate their transaction size before sending bitcoin using web wallets and if that wallet doesn't provide automatic recommended fee detection system, users will try to use whatever they like (usually low to minimize fee cost) making their transaction stucked which make them fear even more dealing with bitcoin in future.

I think Web wallet should focus on implementing fee recommendation system (i have seen this in few), users need to be more aware of importance of transactions fees to have less unconfirmed transactions in future.

In my view, users using web wallets should be focused less on fees. They opted to use these services and these services have the responsibility to their customers to manage fee recommendation on their behalf. Imagine if the banks did this to their customers? < Tell them to manage their fees on their own, and if they did not get it right, they will have unconfirmed transactions for months > I would surely not use such a service.

Once again, third party services are clearly dropping the ball, and Bitcoin gets the blame. ^fuming^

[AgentofCoin]

Ok. I'm pretty surprised that a miner would mine that type of tx today.

Why not?
Miners are interested in fees
If there are no high-fee txs - they do confirm txs with low fee even these txs are 1 year old and created by spamer
...

Looking at mempool graphs for October 25, 2016, seems to have a steady 6k to 9k txs pending
throughout the day. So it is interesting a miner would take on that cost instead of taking a higher fee.

The prior block was:           over 600kb,   1,284 txs,     0.2849 btc fee      So avg 45 satos per byte
The block in question was:  over 900kb,      794 txs,     0.1955 btc fee      So avg 20 satos per byte
The block after was:           over 900kb,   2,245 txs,     0.7235 btc fee      So avg 72 satos per byte

So when you look at the 3 block side by side, the one we are talking about took on more data for less fee,
the other two seem somewhat in proportion and makes some sense to me.

In addition, here is another crazy tx this one miner took:
https://tradeblock.com/bitcoin/tx/c1696113e3cd152dee1e9b4b42057995ba253d082b4228f9d5d3623ade179dff
This has no fee and over 33,000 bytes.
Edit: seems this tx is the miner pool paying its miners and mined their own tx.

[amaclin]

Looking at mempool graphs for October 25, 2016

link?

In addition, here is another crazy tx this one miner took:
This has no fee and over 33,000 bytes.

possible resaons:
1) cpfp
2) pool has a vip-entrance for some txs

[AgentofCoin]

Looking at mempool graphs for October 25, 2016

link?

https://www.bitcoinqueue.com/details/4d.html