Precious metals are not useful in a collapse scenario!

[tvbcof]

@ iamnotback,
...
How much have you made off Bitcoin as you consider yourself such an investment guru.
...

Apparently not enough.  The ridiculous fear-mongering leveraging the shallow depth of most people's conception of reality in a transparent attempt to artificially inflate Bitcoin at the expense of PMs is a pattern seen in various semi-notorious and/or semi-desperate scammers over the years.  Cypherdoc (aka, Dr. Lowelife) springs to mind.

Perhaps I'll re-visit this thread to flesh things out, but the short story is:  Bitcoin and PM's are effectively the same thing with some modestly different and potentially symbiotic strengths and weaknesses.  In anything approaching a bonafide 'collapse scenario', it would behoove one to have command of both.  In a genuine collapse it could be life and death.

[1715202767]

1715202767

[1715202767]

1715202767

[iamnotback]

The ridiculous fear-mongering leveraging the shallow depth of most people's conception of reality in a transparent attempt to artificially inflate Bitcoin at the expense of PMs is a pattern seen in various semi-notorious and/or semi-desperate scammers over the years.

Perhaps I'll re-visit this thread to flesh things out, but the short story is:  Bitcoin and PM's are effectively the same thing with some modestly different and potentially symbiotic strengths and weaknesses.  In anything approaching a bonafide 'collapse scenario', it would behoove one to have command of both.  In a genuine collapse it could be life and death.

And you were the one two years ago in HashFast criminal Cypherdorc's thread who thought (still thinks?) Blockstream's side-chains are a viable technology (I have a very good memory). You lack technical insight and good judgment.

I tried to be liquid with gold and silver in the Philippines and I lost my ass because of it.

Before you spout off nonsense from your armchair, you should actually have experience.

You have no experienced developing serious blockchain technology (I do, and how is that nonsense paracoin coming along?) and you have no experience trying to be liquid with precious metals outside of your comfy Western coin dealers (I do) and thus you are incorrect. When and if the SHTF, then if your comfy coin dealers are not able to service you, then you will depend on the innate liquidity of precious metals, meaning what the common person thinks of them. I suggest you go stand at the mall and try to give away a 1oz silver coin at $10 under spot as some guy did at numerous locations in the USA and nobody was interested to pay $10 for a 1oz silver coin. He was standing right in front of a coin dealer and even told them they could check the spot price inside. The masses do not think gold and silver are currency. Get a fucking clue.

As cited in my OP, those who have experience economic and social collapse first-hand, have stated that only food, security, medicine, and sin goods are liquid during that scenario. Also any liquid currency that people know they can very readily exchange externally to the collapsed region. Precious metals (especially silver dimes!) don't qualify. Tinfoil hat wearing goldbug idiots are thinking that people will accept their coins in barter. Never going to happen dude. Get a fucking clue about reality.

You also are closed-minded because you are wearing a tinfoil hat (as I used to do) and thus you are blindly married to the concept in which you are vested.

You do realize I am @anonymint, also Legendary (plus a few Hero accounts as well) don't you?

Edit: Selling a 10 oz Silver Bar for $10 (When It's Worth $160) - EXPERIMENT -

Selling 1 Oz Gold Coin for $25 (when it's worth over $1,500)

Buying a 99¢ Taco with 1 Ounce Gold Coin (worth over $1000) - from Taco Bell's Drive-Through

Free $5 Bill or Free Silver Dollar? It's Up To You  <--- make sure you listen at 1:30 to the guy who knows the spot price but still won't take the silver dollar!

[tvbcof]

...
You do realize I am @anonymint, also Legendary (plus a few Hero accounts as well) don't you?
...

Well, my less than successful Filipino friend, I have other friends who have had more success in times which better relate to an actual failure.  In particular, a friend of mine had been a child during the Japanese occupation.  Her grandmother had a chunk of bamboo filled with American dimes and she said it got them through the whole event.  Several years as I recall.

I didn't 'know' that you were anonymint but I'm also not surprised.  I figured you were some sock-ee individual and obviously kind of a wanker.  Possibly cyphercoc.

I guess your tinkering with blockchain tech has been as disastrous as your experience with gold.  I'm just kind of a lucky dude I guess since I've had nothing but success in my experiences with both.  So far.  Of course one needs to remain ever diligent and 'careful' to assist 'luck' in doing it's thing.

As for sidechains, I've not paid much attention lately.  A little bit of looking just now seems to indicate that they are right on track.  Purring along until they are needed and, presumably, maturing in the process.  Looks like Adam Back has taken over as Blockstream CEO from the last guy who I had not much confidence in.  This as much as anything tells me that things are right on target.  Most importantly, sidechains seem to be singularly responsible for thwarting Mike Hearn's attempts to destroy Bitcoin through unrestrained growth.  Even if there had been some flaw in the idea which was initially undetected, fighting back the HearnDressen attack itself would have made them a success.

[iamnotback]

Gold is a bubble which may at any moment burst. I'm not buying gold right now and do not advise others. The price will fall.

I disagree, I think there is still a lot of upside with many predicting $5k gold by 2020.

Gold can go very high if we don't get abject social collapse, and it will rise because it is a hedge against governments. And $5k is plausible, but not higher.

But gold is not going to go up in the in between scenarios, such as the one we are in now where the dollar will become very strong (go read my posts in the Martin Armstrong thread to understand why) and then later if we slide into abject collapse.

So gold has a very limited window of scenarios for large gains.

Whereas, crypto-currency is a nascent technology that is going to spread all over the world and become used by millions and billions of people.

You are comparing a maybe 4X gain over the next  decade, to a 100X gain. Precious metals are pathetic.

But don't listen to me.

[iamnotback]

Well, my less than successful Filipino friend

I am not a filipino. I am an expat American.

In particular, a friend of mine had been a child during the Japanese occupation.  Her grandmother had a chunk of bamboo filled with American dimes and she said it got them through the whole event.  Several years as I recall.

When silver coins were still currency all over the world. You seem to miss the salient detail, which is indicative of why nobody should trust your weak powers of logic and discernment.

As for sidechains, I've not paid much attention lately.  A little bit of looking just now seems to indicate that they are right on track.

Nope.

[iamnotback]

When complex systems collapse, they always revert to a more primitive state.

Correct. Food, security, medicine, and sin products. Not some silly silver dimes that have no primitive utility and last used to be currency 50 years ago (and for the most part not really currency all over the world since a century ago).

You lack the capability of clear logic.

There is no viable scenario on earth where the global economy experiences any type of serious meltdown and immediately jumps to an even more complex state (bitcoin).

Of course there is. Technology would be precisely the way humans would try to subvert the crisis, because it is the most efficient. Smartphones use very little power (can be charged with a solar panel or even a hand crank) and WiFi mesh networking technology is already being looked at by Google and others. Necessity is the mother of accelerated "seat of the pants" innovation. We have the hardware in everyone's hand. We programmers can add mesh networking in a heartbeat when we must have it.

We don't absolutely have to use cellular towers. They are more efficient, but we can get low bandwidth needed for crypto-transactions done in other ways such as WiFi mesh and/or HAM radio.

The paper bills will be the main thing imploding because the coinage has an actual floor to it.  The cost to produce a nickel varies between around 5-8 cents and a penny is around 1.7 cents, so it's plausible that several denominations of coins would just keep on trucking and be utilized even if the paper currency went to zero.

What a tinfoil hat dolt. Iron used to be a precious metal. The commodities are on an inexorable decline in relative value. Did you entirely miss this point from my famous essay which CoinCube cited in the OP of the Economic Devastation thread. There is a chart there from the Economist magazine which would be very eye opening for you.

Peak oil is propaganda lie

Peak oil is obviously real because we extract all the low hanging fruit first (the cheapest oil)

Obviously you've been fooled by Rothschilds-funded propaganda and then you claim you don't want to be his slave. Lol.

r0ach you have a lot to learn about the realities of the world. And I don't have the time to teach you.

I will just tell you that my father was the West Coast Division Head Attorney for Exxon in the 1980s and after a General Counsel for THUMS a consortium of the major oil companies. I know some things you do not know.

Besides we are moving away from carbon-based fuels and generation via nuclear energy, solar, hydroelectric, and geothermal. New technological breakthroughs in these areas plus battery technology will obsolete carbon fuels.

WHAT battery technology?  I sure as hell don't see it.

A confluence of technologies is actively transforming our energy economy as we speak.

There is no strong case for silver. It is more volatile than gold, less liquid, and there is no supply crunch problem. The precious metal promoters are fooling you with lies and propaganda.

It is estimated that within around 50 years we will run out of a lot of rare earth materials used in industry.

BS. Some entities tried to corner the market (mines). There is abundance of rare earths. You are a Malthusian fool.

The timeline for silver is even sooner, around 20-30 years.  There is not a silver supply crunch problem, there is a supply crunch problem for everything.

Nonsense. There is so much silver in the ground, we will never get it all out in 10,000 years. Also for example, as needed by necessity technology will advance and there will bots that can follow an ore vein and mine at the same time as exploring.

There is no solution to the inviolable (insoluble) tyranny of the power-law distribution¹ and the Iron Law of Political Economics power vacuum.

It's called...

Blah, blah. More self masturbation, armchair useless talk.

[iamnotback]

I tend to disagree. You may be right in this very case, but overall, as history shows, there is always something that we simply don't know about yet (haven't discovered it or the ways to use it). Who could ever think about using nuclear energy when oil became mainstream in the second half of the 19th century?

There's lots of Thorium laying around you can use for nuclear energy, but the point was that the skillset to do so is probably absent after a dark ages and you would have to work your way back up using something like coal again as a base except all the coal and oil is gone or only located somewhere like Antarctica.

If the entire world sinks into a 600 year Dark Age, then peak oil will be least of your worries. And you can't eat silver dimes. In Japan for 600+ years, rice was the only currency.

deisik, correct.

[tvbcof]

In particular, a friend of mine had been a child during the Japanese occupation.  Her grandmother had a chunk of bamboo filled with American dimes and she said it got them through the whole event.  Several years as I recall.

When silver coins were still currency all over the world. You seem to miss the salient detail, which is indicative of why nobody should trust your weak powers of logic and discernment.
...

Er, nope.  Most nations used pot-metal trinkets or confetti as legal tender which is exactly the significance of the 'American dimes' part.  Probably doesn't need to be pointed out but American coin was 90% silver...back in the day...now just pot-metal like everyone elses' of course.  Money talks and bullshit walks when the shit hits the fan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_government-issued_Philippine_peso

[iamnotback]

Any one buying precious metals right now and not Bitcoin @$700 is an idiot.

You should be buying BTC aggressively and plan to diversify into any best-of-breed altcoins at the right timing. For example, once XMR and ZEC (Zcash) bottoms, you should be buying aggressively, which will probably after the current up move in BTC matures.

Those who stay in precious metals are going to see losses in 2017 (due to the surging dollar) and then only at most a 4 X gain from current prices over next several years.

Those in solid crypto-currency speculations are going to see 10 - 100 X gain in that same timeframe.

[iamnotback]

In particular, a friend of mine had been a child during the Japanese occupation.  Her grandmother had a chunk of bamboo filled with American dimes and she said it got them through the whole event.  Several years as I recall.

When silver coins were still currency all over the world. You seem to miss the salient detail, which is indicative of why nobody should trust your weak powers of logic and discernment.
...

Er, nope.  Most nations used pot-metal trinkets or confetti as legal tender which is exactly the significance of the 'American dimes' part.

You are agreeing with my point dimwit.

Are they using silver in any form for barter now.

[iamnotback]

You've said numerous times you're poor as a church mouse (well, close enough) and you give investment advice here? Seems legit.

You might as well be speaking about Jessie Livermore also, the greatest speculator of all time who shorted the Great Depression when all the other idiots were on the wrong side of trade. He lost the $95 million before he died.

At least I learned something from experiences and mistakes. Btw, I suggest that when you don't know someone's circumstances, then you shouldn't conclude they lost their money due to investment decisions alone. In my case, I was pressured by a family situation and also emergency illness. And also I was pressured to leave the USA by the actions of [redacted] which endangered [redacted] custody of my children. If you even had a clue as to all the incompatible balls I was juggling at that time, then maybe you might be more rational in your judgement.

Instead of attacking people you do not like, instead why not attack the logic of the message. But losers do what you do, so you know what I expect from you in the future. Loser. Prove me wrong. What have you accomplished? What is your identity? What is your life story?

Yeah take your pot shots from behind your own secrecy. Nice. Loser.

Now I remember why I have you on Ignore.

[tvbcof]

Any one buying precious metals right now and not Bitcoin @$700 is an idiot.
...

True (perhaps) IF they already have an ass-load of PM and no crypto (and some basic computer skilz.)

False (perhaps) IF they have have an ass-load of crypto and no PM.

Perhaps you would not have so many failures if you recognized some of the nuances of strategy.  Different people have different situations and there is no way to accurately predict the future.

BTW, it's a fair bet that free internetworking via corporate controlled global packet transmission infrastructure will fail (in one way or another) long before we hit rock bottom in a real SHTF scenario.  (By 'free' I mean free of various kinds of controls of course.)  Not that certain varieties of crypto won't be able to work in such an environment to a degree, but they won't work well for even the more technologically capable and likely not at all for the rest.  A dusty old wallet might be worth a fortune on the other side of such an event, but one needs to stay alive long enough to get there.

[iamnotback]

Any one buying precious metals right now and not Bitcoin @$700 is an idiot.
...

True (perhaps) IF they already have an ass-load of PM and no crypto (and some basic computer skilz.)

False (perhaps) IF they have have an ass-load of crypto and no PM.

I am obviously not writing to the second class of reader. I don't feel any need whatsoever to encourage any one in any circumstance to diversify in pathetic precious metals. That is how pathetic I think they are. Diversify into USA dollars and USA stock market.

A few well recognized gold coins for a "get of Dodge" plan. Yeah okay, but that isn't an investment. It is akin to buying a gun. It is an expense.

Some bullion to drool over and fondle, okay that is another expense for rich boys akin to buying a Corvette or Ferrari. I have held 5 Krugs in my hand. Feels awesome.

I am intentionally ridiculing those who stack precious metal. I am embarrassed that I used to be one of them. Those who think they will leave this useless metal to their children as some sort of accomplishment. These guys may even be my friends, and I am trying to wake them up from the severity of their mistake.

Perhaps you would not have so many failures if you recognized some of the nuances of strategy.  Different people have different situations and there is no way to accurately predict the future.

I wouldn't have lost the fortune I earned developing computer software if I hadn't become a silverbug following Jason Hommel back in 2006. And shipped my physical metal to the Philippines!

Precious metal bugs are irrational extremists, who are locked and loaded in their basements. They are goofy insane. They may be smart in other ways, but they have a few screws loose in the noggin.

If you believe gold and silver are great investments, then buy an ETF. But noooo, y'all 'bugs are preparing for the end of the world scenario so an ETF isn't reliable. But in the collapse scenario, their goofy silver dimes are as useful as eating concrete.

BTW, it's a fair bet that free internetworking via corporate controlled global packet transmission infrastructure will fail (in one way or another) long before we hit rock bottom in a real SHTF scenario.  (By 'free' I mean free of various kinds of controls of course.)  Not that certain varieties of crypto won't be able to work in such an environment to a degree, but they won't work well for even the more technologically capable and likely not at all for the rest.  A dusty old wallet might be worth a fortune on the other side of such an event, but one needs to stay alive long enough to get there.

If we get to that level of collapse, then the least of your worries with be your monetary stash. And precious metals won't function either. You'll be fighting for food, security, medicine, and primitive needs.

[Xester]

It would not happen I guess.  Yes we are in digital times now but that does not mean that we cannot go back to things our ancestor did before.  Plus not all part of the world recognize digital transactions because as of the moment they still have no electricty and do not know how tobuse computers.  And I do not think so because gold and silver is still of high value in the market.  And I also believe that people is understandable enough and willing to go back to traditional way of buying and using coins made of silver and gold. 

[iamnotback]

Plus not all part of the world recognize digital transactions because as of the moment they still have no electricty and do not know how tobuse computers.

Sorry that place doesn't exist much anymore. Even Africans have smartphones.

[Yuuto]

Your post is excellent. Precious metals are DEAD. Period. Who wants to use it when there is a better alternative that works just as well, like BTC? Something more divisible and portable. Even 1oz silver coins, they carry a heavy markup. Who would want to buy it from you for that markup?

[20kevin20]

In a collapse scenario, precious metals will be the ONLY ones that will be used. Money's value will fall at least at the half of what it is right now, and precious metals will be used as a currency. Read about people buying food with gold in the WW2, or read about someone buying a FACTORY with a gold coin in the WW2. Paper will be worthless. Do you really think someone will ever be using paper again in a collapse? I mean.. Would you accept paper rather than gold or silver? They are the only useful currencies.

[iamnotback]

In a collapse scenario, precious metals will be the ONLY ones that will be used.

You are incorrect.

You need to read my posts more slowly and try to understand that you are entirely incorrect.

Money's value will fall at least at the half of what it is right now, and precious metals will be used as a currency. Read about people buying food with gold in the WW2, or read about someone buying a FACTORY with a gold coin in the WW2. Paper will be worthless. Do you really think someone will ever be using paper again in a collapse? I mean.. Would you accept paper rather than gold or silver? They are the only useful currencies.

Sorry you are so incorrect and in delusion, that I think it is hopeless.

[iamnotback]

Now I remember why I have you on Ignore.

In other words, you're smart with investments but circumstances. I get it.

I see you continue to attack the messenger instead of the message. Have you not any logic to add about the recent discussion or is your jealousy of me the person just all too obvious.

Again who are you? You refuse to share.

Please remind how your prediction from last year of BTC@150 and gold@800 has turned out?

Don't forget my published prediction of the silver move from $22 to $48, then back down to $25 many months before it happened in 2011 (and did you know that I got fucked over in the Philippines not enabling me to profit on my prediction! If I had my investment in an ETF, my sell order at the peak and short would have been honored! Not to mention that most of my metal was stolen by the only vault provider in Manila you jack ass, and there is no way to sue because they refuse to give accurate accounting!):

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article23786.html

Btw, I correctly predicted the low of Bitcoin at $150 first time, and way before it happened. I predicted the fall from the $600s to $300s, and the $150 low. I thought it would deadcat bounce and then go to lower lows, because...

In fact, I mentioned it day before yesterday:

My mistake was assuming BTC was correlated to gold, even though Armstrong never wrote that. That was my mistake, not Armstrong's. I realize now that BTC is correlated to safe haven liquidity same as the dollar and USA stocks.

The gold to $850 is still on the table. Nothing with that has changed. As predicted, the dollar and USA stocks went up and the pound crashed towards parity as predicted. This is why gold is back down in the $1200s, on its way probably to $1050 again and lower (we might get a few more deadcat bounces along the way).

Sorry dollar up, gold down. That has not changed.

My mistake was assuming BTC was correlated to gold as a tinfoil hat asset. Because Satoshi even pitched BTC as gold in his whitepaper. And I know many of early adopters in BTC came from being tinfoil hats (including myself and Bitcoin millionaire rpietila). Btw, I had more silver than rpietila and had it not been for my problem in 2012 with my health and family breakup then I would have been poised to invest $100,000 in BTC at $10 in January 2013. I told rpietila to go ahead, but I told him I had been destroyed by events in 2012 and couldn't follow him. That is fate. But my destiny is not yet complete.

Any way, back to the issue at hand, you should remember that in this thread, I told everyone numerous times that it was my theory that BTC might be correlated to gold, but that I wasn't sure and that I could be wrong. And so I was wrong, but I also admitted at the time that I wasn't sure. Do I need to make 5 or more quotes of me repeating that before in order to convince your rabid ass to go hide under a rock where you belong?

Your followers are loyally waiting to buy both at lower prices.

I don't have loyal followers you jealous loser.

I share my thoughts openly so that losers like you can take pot shots at me from behind your secrecy.

Learning from mistakes would mean to stop making silly predictions when you got no clue.
Be my guest and put me on ignore again, because truth hurts.

You never came off Ignore. I clicked to read your message only because I know you need a good slapdown.

And be my guest to please come back and admit you are wrong later.

Don't disappear with your tail between your front legs.

[iamnotback]

The gold to $850 is still on the table.

I hope you mean bricks or rounds of real metal, not the 200:1 leveraged paper pushed from one brokerage account to another?

I mean the least expensive gold metal, whether that be Comex bars or what ever. I am aware that the goldbugs rush in and create artificial scarcity of non-Comex bars during large drops in the price.

And even if you find it inconvenient to buy a Comex bar, then buy an ETF at then as the price normalizes then sell your paper gold and buy metal gold if that is what you want.

The goldbugs always use this excuse. In fact, I was buying silver 10?? oz Comex bars from Fidelity Trade in 2009, minting them into 1oz rounds and making 20% market up because of this idiotic behavior of the silverbugs.

There is absolutely no merit in predicting what paper or electronic digits will do, those can do anything.

More nonsensical propaganda to get fools to overpay for useless metal.

If gold is on a low, it certainly means we don't have collapse right? So the paper will be tracking the metal again just fine once the idiots stop overpaying for coins.

For silver in 2011 there is no record what you said about it - there is no reason to believe that you guessed it at that time.

I gave you the link to public published prediction of mine. You can go to archive.org and verify when it was published:

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article23786.html

You know well that in crypto space it's not a good habit to trust anything but code and verifiable records.

Go to archive.org and email Nadeem Wayat the owner of marketoracle.co.uk and ask him.

Keep trying to invent excuses to wiggle out of your slapdown.