Instawallet claim process

[NLCOINER]

Look, there is a very precise reason a proper claims process with a proper claims interface was set up.
There is also a very precise reason why the claims period had to be limited to a fixed time-frame.
There is also a very precise reason why claims were only processed when people were able to provide the correct URL to their wallet(s).
And finally there is a very precise reason why the claims were processed through this interface and not by e-mail or by teleported napkin bits with half a URL written on them.

I think you fail to understand at least one of these reasons, tell me which one and I'll explain.

You guys can easily check in your database/systems that the evidence I have given you is correct. Richard did it! So why don't you?? As I said, I understand if I had no evidence etc... but I do. All you have to do is verify the information I gave you. Also, Im asking for you to give me back less than 20bitcoins, you guys were in charge of 10000s of bitcoins. For me these bitcoins are a lot of money! Im sure you still have enough unclaimed coins where people really have no information or have forgotten their urls, but Im trying to claim mine with the evidence and information I have of all the wallets. You know, I believe that if you really want to listen and help me out you would! Richard wanted to, and he tried, but its seems nobody else working for Paymium wants to make any effort to even listen to me! Only thing you answer is that I missed the 90 days so too bad, we are now gonna steal ur coins!! How fair is that?

[1713402341]

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[1713402341]

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[giszmo]

Look, there is a very precise reason a proper claims process with a proper claims interface was set up.
There is also a very precise reason why the claims period had to be limited to a fixed time-frame.
There is also a very precise reason why claims were only processed when people were able to provide the correct URL to their wallet(s).
And finally there is a very precise reason why the claims were processed through this interface and not by e-mail or by teleported napkin bits with half a URL written on them.

I think you fail to understand at least one of these reasons, tell me which one and I'll explain.

You guys can easily check in your database/systems that the evidence I have given you is correct. Richard did it! So why don't you?? As I said, I understand if I had no evidence etc... but I do. All you have to do is verify the information I gave you. Also, Im asking for you to give me back less than 20bitcoins, you guys were in charge of 10000s of bitcoins. For me these bitcoins are a lot of money! Im sure you still have enough unclaimed coins where people really have no information or have forgotten their urls, but Im trying to claim mine with the evidence and information I have of all the wallets. You know, I believe that if you really want to listen and help me out you would! Richard wanted to, and he tried, but its seems nobody else working for Paymium wants to make any effort to even listen to me! Only thing you answer is that I missed the 90 days so too bad, we are now gonna steal ur coins!! How fair is that?

The 90days window was a joke from the start. Get a lawyer. Don't wait for january as this might be an intentional delay to have whatever expire in their jurisdiction.

[NLCOINER]

Look, there is a very precise reason a proper claims process with a proper claims interface was set up.
There is also a very precise reason why the claims period had to be limited to a fixed time-frame.
There is also a very precise reason why claims were only processed when people were able to provide the correct URL to their wallet(s).
And finally there is a very precise reason why the claims were processed through this interface and not by e-mail or by teleported napkin bits with half a URL written on them.

I think you fail to understand at least one of these reasons, tell me which one and I'll explain.

You guys can easily check in your database/systems that the evidence I have given you is correct. Richard did it! So why don't you?? As I said, I understand if I had no evidence etc... but I do. All you have to do is verify the information I gave you. Also, Im asking for you to give me back less than 20bitcoins, you guys were in charge of 10000s of bitcoins. For me these bitcoins are a lot of money! Im sure you still have enough unclaimed coins where people really have no information or have forgotten their urls, but Im trying to claim mine with the evidence and information I have of all the wallets. You know, I believe that if you really want to listen and help me out you would! Richard wanted to, and he tried, but its seems nobody else working for Paymium wants to make any effort to even listen to me! Only thing you answer is that I missed the 90 days so too bad, we are now gonna steal ur coins!! How fair is that?

The 90days window was a joke from the start. Get a lawyer. Don't wait for january as this might be an intentional delay to have whatever expire in their jurisdiction.

Hey!

Ur right, this could be a trick from their part! Im gonna be lawyering up soon. I have another lawsuit going on in Paris anyways. The only thing these guys need to do, is confirm the evidence Im giving them and transfer me back my coins. I don't understand whats so difficult about this! Im not asking for 100s or 1000s of bitcoins, im asking to get less than 20 back!

[NLCOINER]

Look, there is a very precise reason a proper claims process with a proper claims interface was set up.
There is also a very precise reason why the claims period had to be limited to a fixed time-frame.
There is also a very precise reason why claims were only processed when people were able to provide the correct URL to their wallet(s).
And finally there is a very precise reason why the claims were processed through this interface and not by e-mail or by teleported napkin bits with half a URL written on them.

I think you fail to understand at least one of these reasons, tell me which one and I'll explain.

Please explain this one:

"There is also a very precise reason why the claims period had to be limited to a fixed time-frame."

What is the reason? So you could steal all coins not claimed in this 90 day period??? Its the only reason I can think of, especially as Im giving you guys (more detailed) proof that I owned ALL wallets where my coins were in, then if I had just confirmed an e-mail address during the claims process through the interface.
It seems you guys just dont want to give me my coins back.

[davout]

Please explain this one:
"There is also a very precise reason why the claims period had to be limited to a fixed time-frame."

I think this has been answered before, but it doesn't really matter, the answers are probably buried in this thread among giszmo's butthurt and tvbcof's irrelevance.

We've been hacked and got proof that the hacker got access to our database in read/write. (and no IW didn't leak wallet URLs, if anyone is interested I can link the proper humiliation I gave Roger Wehbe who was trying to peddle this nonsense for weeks, meanwhile begging for tips, anyway, I digress).

So our hacker got access to our database, meaning access to all wallet URLs (and all the information you have provided for that matter). So if you follow that meant we *had* to define a specific claims timeframe.
Had we allowed the claims to run forever the following would have happened :
 - legitimate users claim their funds
 - six months later, when no one cares anymore the hacker comes and picks up what's not been claimed

With a deadline we were forcing the hacker to reveal himself if he tried to claim wallets, we figured most decent wallets would be claimed by their users and that a double claim would immediately raise suspicions (especially if they were coming from the same/a weird IP or if we fingerprinted the same browser on 100 large duplicate claims).

So that was the first reason.

The second reason to have the 90 days time frame is quite simple too, as you know, Bitcoin wallets after being hacked are quite often insolvent.
So the reason for the fixed time-frame is that it allowed everyone to file a claim without rushing in a bank-run like scenario where the first claimants would get paid 100% and the rest would get whatever was left. By having a fixed time-frame we managed to accurately determine whom to pay and how much at the end of said period.

Since we had to set the payouts in stone before actually paying it also meant we'd have to start paying everyone at the same moment, so when we had to determine the time-frame length 3 months seemed the appropriate number in order for people to get access to their money in a reasonable time-frame while at the same time leaving a reasonable delay for people to place a claim.

Does this answer your question ?

[giszmo]

Please explain this one:
"There is also a very precise reason why the claims period had to be limited to a fixed time-frame."

I think this has been answered before, but it doesn't really matter, the answers are probably buried in this thread among giszmo's butthurt and tvbcof's irrelevance.

We've been hacked and got proof that the hacker got access to our database in read/write. (and no IW didn't leak wallet URLs, if anyone is interested I can link the proper humiliation I gave Roger Wehbe who was trying to peddle this nonsense for weeks, meanwhile begging for tips, anyway, I digress).

So our hacker got access to our database, meaning access to all wallet URLs (and all the information you have provided for that matter). So if you follow that meant we *had* to define a specific claims timeframe.
Had we allowed the claims to run forever the following would have happened :
 - legitimate users claim their funds
 - six months later, when no one cares anymore the hacker comes and picks up what's not been claimed

With a deadline we were forcing the hacker to reveal himself if he tried to claim wallets, we figured most decent wallets would be claimed by their users and that a double claim would immediately raise suspicions (especially if they were coming from the same/a weird IP or if we fingerprinted the same browser on 100 large duplicate claims).

So that was the first reason.

The second reason to have the 90 days time frame is quite simple too, as you know, Bitcoin wallets after being hacked are quite often insolvent.
So the reason for the fixed time-frame is that it allowed everyone to file a claim without rushing in a bank-run like scenario where the first claimants would get paid 100% and the rest would get whatever was left. By having a fixed time-frame we managed to accurately determine whom to pay and how much at the end of said period.

Since we had to set the payouts in stone before actually paying it also meant we'd have to start paying everyone at the same moment, so when we had to determine the time-frame length 3 months seemed the appropriate number in order for people to get access to their money in a reasonable time-frame while at the same time leaving a reasonable delay for people to place a claim.

Does this answer your question ?

This all makes sense but I doubt it is legal. If my bank shuts down and doesn't inform me that in 90 days my money will be theirs to use as they please, I doubt they would get away with it. Why not 900 days? Why not 9 seconds?

90 days are completely arbitrary and while it might be a nice incentive to get the hacker to come forward, it can't possibly be a way to steal users' funds the way you try now. Keeping the money is not just legally wrong, it also is morally wrong.

If you would give the remaining money to charity, you would win on moral ground but run into trouble once people come after you on legal ground.

I guess the best way would be to put this money into escrow with some reputable entity and fully disclose the legal situation. Giving the remaining money to charity after a 10 years delay (guess in Germany such liabilities would not expire for 10 years) might turn out interesting, too

[davout]

I doubt it is legal.

Your opinions are your problem, not mine.

If my bank shuts down and doesn't inform me that in 90 days my money will be theirs to use as they please, I doubt they would get away with it

Instawallet was never designed to operate like a bank.
We provided a free way to store spare change, not accounts. Compare it to a free deposit box if you want but not to a bank.

Why not 900 days? Why not 9 seconds?

This was answered to in my previous post, did you miss it?

90 days are completely arbitrary

It's "is arbitrary", either way yes it is arbitrary. I looked a bit around teh interwebz at the time but found no definitive reference on "How to design a proper claims process in 7 days".
You were welcome to make constructive suggestions at the time the claims process was designed, instead you chose to throw shit at us and post your wallet URL publicly, boo.

and while it might be a nice incentive to get the hacker to come forward

You misunderstand, it wasn't an incentive for him to come forward, it was a protection against him stealing even more money by claiming wallets based on his inside knowledge.

[Simon-v]

Well, then, i believe it will not be unreasonable of someone like me to ask how what-used-to-be-my-money is going to be used, after all, now that you've made it perfectly clear that i'll never see it again. You probably don't remember that, but i expressed hope that it'll be used for charity, not personal enrichment.

Also, for your amusement, i'll post an excerpt from The Hitch-Hiker's Guide To The Galaxy.

Mr. Prosser said, “You were quite entitled to make any suggestions or protests at the appropriate time, you know.”

“Appropriate time?” hooted Arthur. “Appropriate time? The first I knew about it was when a workman arrived at my home yesterday. I asked him if he’d come to clean the windows and he said no, he’d come to demolish the house. He didn’t tell me straight away of course. Oh no. First he wiped a couple of windows and charged me a fiver. Then he told me.”

“But Mr. Dent, the plans have been available in the local planning office for the last nine months.”

“Oh yes, well, as soon as I heard I went straight round to see them, yesterday afternoon. You hadn’t exactly gone out of your way to call attention to them, had you? I mean, like actually telling anybody or anything.”

“But the plans were on display...”

“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”

“That’s the display department.”

“With a flashlight.”

“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”

“So had the stairs.”

“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”

“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.’”

...And then the house gets knocked down and Earth is destroyed, yadda, yadda, yadda. Happy end.

[davout]

for your amusement

Thank you. I am amused.

[tvbcof]

You cannot even be bothered to put a link to it?  Thanks for the always top-notch customer support.

I've rarely seen so much butthurt in such a small mind.

There may be an element of butthurt in Boussac putting me on his ignore list.

But at the end of the day, it's Boussac who wanders around with an undetected booger hanging out of his nose for all to see until one of his friends like yourself comes along to inform him of the unfortunate fact.  Maybe his only friend for all I know.

[Phinnaeus Gage]

...and post your wallet URL publicly, boo.

Bingo! That may explain why there are two other claims against one of my wallets, being that that's exactly what I did, but done so not realizing the consequence assuming IW was closed and that I had just prior to doing such submitted three claims, with the disclosed url one being one of them.

But, that doesn't explain why my claim on said wallet wasn't included among the other two, let alone why I was never notified about the status about any of the three claims I submitted, in spite of the fact that I made sure I was one of the early submitters, being that two of the wallets contained well over the 50 BTC limit that would take longer to process, all according to the principles at InsatWallet. Last week, I once again resubmitted the two larger wallets, but to date nary a word as to how its proceeding. In re. the smaller wallet that has two other claims against it, I was not able to do anything (read only) when I revisit its URL, assuming since nothing has changed during previous visits, it's still up for review and somehow I'm included as one of the claimants, being the earliest, filing in mid-April, 2013.

For the record, I raised/echoed a concern just prior to the InstaWallet hack due to the amount of BTC I entrusted with them, but was rest assured that all was well, then shortly thereafter, poof! it was gone.

I first came to this thread holding my tongue, but soon started with the vitriol attacks after witnessing that dozens of calls by myself, among others, for the principles of IW to provide a police report went unaddressed. Finally, one was offered up and provided in the French section of this forum, although Boussac created THIS very thread you're reading to provide to us all relevant information as to what's going on, how to proceed during the claim process, etc. The sole purposed of starting that thread in the French section of this forum was to display the police report, of which was in French, understandably, but the post had to be translated and migrated to this thread by some other Bitcoiner, and NOT by a single principle of InstaWallet. Meanwhile, at the time, Davout was nowhere to be found, not having logged in for an extended period of time, in spite of being a moderator of this very forum, albeit probably not paid for said services at the time, but is definitely being paid now by theymos, the admin of this forum, from donated and advertising monies (I have no other reason for including theymos' name in this fiasco). Due to a post I quoted a few posts up, I lower my tone in hope that that would not hinder me in recovering my bitcoins held in three wallets and are still in InstaWallet's control, and on their books, as far as I can ascertain according to the "block chain".

It has been proven that I've been put on at least two InstaWallet's principles ignore lists on this forum, one of which from the very get-go of my posting in this thread, among a couple others. The couple times I've been addressed, is because some other quoted my posts of which was read and couldn't be ignored due to them not being on their ignore list. The same may prove true with this particular post. In fact, if you look at just the last couple pages, max, leading up to this post, none of my posts have been addressed in any capacity by either Davout or Boussac, hence probably still being on ignore, of which Boussac IS on record in stating such that I am.

To date, I have yet to receive a single PM or an email, let alone a helpful post (I may be mistaken with the latter, so please forgive if I am), from anybody at InstaWallet in reference to my three claims, of which now is worth over $800K at today's exchange rate.

Another important concern that even though has been mentioned by at least Boussac, albeit never produced, is exactly what entity conducted the independent audit of IW's database after the attack, and at what point was said audit taken? We already know that a police report was filed at the onset of the attack, according to the documents presented to us, but they weren't shared till a much later date in a very off-handed way.

Now, we learn that not one, but at least two people once working at InstaWallet are no longer employed there. Probably not related at all to what has transpired at Camp InstaWallet at the start of Q2, 2013, but still raises an alarm, at least in my eyes.

Prior to the hack, everybody who had a wallet on InstaWallet was shown a balance of zero when they visited their wallets via their URL key (I believe that's what they meant when they used the word key, although I've yet to find its correct definition even though I've personally asked at least once, seriously not knowing what was meant by the word "key"). When one transferred BTC from their wallet to some other, according to the "block chain" an intermediary address was used. Sometimes, according to the "block chain" a funded wallet was shown to have a zero balance, and only funded when another withdraw transaction was needed, before reverting back to zero, showing the expected balance being stored in a newly created wallet by InstaWallet.

After the hack, three separate wallets were created acting as cold storage for InstaWallet, Bitcoin-Central and some other entity, perhaps it was Paymium, where they resided for a time. Later, one of the wallets was broken up into 1000 BTC wallets around the time the first claim payouts were sent out. I was relieved to learn that at least one Principle of InstaWallet, Davout, was paid his claim in a timely manner, I'm sure so was he, as shown via a tx that included SatoshiDice transactions.

In closing, let's recap. At least two guys are no longer employed at InstaWallet, Davout, who plays SatoshiDice was absent during the onset of the hack, claims are still outstanding, and more than enough funds are still available, according to my calculations, to pay out my 1,123+ BTC claims. Furthermore, Boussac is on record in stating that there were ~3M funded wallets that needed to be sorted through, hence one reason for the 90 day delay in them starting the repayment process. I haven't counted them, but what I've seen on the ~half-dozen payout txs, the total amount doesn't even approach 10,000, let alone 3 million. See for yourselves:

https://blockchain.info/tx/998d15b620272eb71f48cbfb9695d2a2d8a42738b62e7e348611e504acc4baa6
https://blockchain.info/tx/0624989adc022305527674afa44672e736fabf8e06910850a66f7de3a3381add
https://blockchain.info/tx/490a3ec2fb1bdb8a6f8fdcdba66376afdc6519f6560ac14c96452f1c6a86aad4
https://blockchain.info/tx/3f0f291a2807a47566e948a162d8db0bf80dc459435d6e1c9843b656c451ec04
https://blockchain.info/tx/ab6bcf2f9cb4019fae464a9c5adc741403deb163faae93c12272979ea99dca6a
https://blockchain.info/tx/6342536a1b44ebbc08126631b1a999e08ee7685ad38502d40edbe2ff7e355865
https://blockchain.info/tx/0c3b8530af20f5c67a1ff7c1a7e7fd3cacb7ea6b44faa416beaeb0f2c5108f8a
https://blockchain.info/tx/ad80f37d0c494f513734103882a2de1b909f23c0608058ee9da8e3f004d22c5d

According to the final tx above, the following address containing ~2687 BTC https://blockchain.info/address/19qB4iJAs4BYwYfXzWrWmTiSAnwsHCufDV has been moved a couple times prior to splitting up into smaller and smaller segments, but looks like it's still controlled by InstaWallet. Strange that they have such a large amount of bitcoins still available, and even after returning my ~$800K claims, they'll still have over a million dollars of which belongs to them, sans any other outstanding claims, of which would be much smaller than mine.

Bruno Kucinskas

[jaycee1974]

until now i got no btc back!!!

Who is also scamed by this Guys and live in EU and is Interested in visiting them in France ( maybe in 1-2 Weeks ) please PM me and I will Organise all for an Visit  with as many of Us as posible at

Paymium
73 rue du Château
92100 Boulogne-Billancourt
FRANCE

So that we can Talk from Eye to Eye with them!

And We will See if they come around with stealing Our Money or not!

I oppened an an Fund for the Lawyer and all Law relevant :

16Ri8DPmHUGfmYHZbJ249GFdphBVwAbM5z

Everyone who will help me planing is welcome, please PM me and we can Talk on how to handle all!

Greets Robert

[tvbcof]

I was just working up some DOX on Boussac and Davout and came across a few pics:

[Goldenboy]

I tried contacting Richard, he doesn't work for them! I tried contacting them on Twitter! Please Tell me how to resolve my claim!
Does Anyone know who Boussac is? If he is on here fraudulantly misrepresenting the reality and this is really a scam, then we need to sue him personally, since the corporate vail doesn't protect his personal liability for deliberate fraud. It is time to start shopping for a lawyer, please contact me if you want to take legal action I want to escalate this to a lawsuit right now. Are we gonna get our BTCs back or is this a scam? Please tell me how to resolve my claim, I just want my BTC, but if we are getting played we need to take action! Boussac says to use my instawallet url to "approve" a claim! Well that url doesn't work!!!!!!
Please let's get together on this and get a french lawyer. This smells like a scam.

[Goldenboy]

Boussac, please tell me who to contact. How do I resolve my claim? My instawallet url doesn't work! Please, I just want my 1 btc. You said I need to "approve" the claim through the url, it doesn't work! Please tell me how to get back my btc!!!!! Is the Paymium brand name going to be associated with running bitcoin scams, or are they legit? If you don't tell me how to resolve my claim, think what that does to the reputation of Paymium, you are showing the world that they are scammers! Do you think paymium's license could be affected when their company is shown to be a fraud? Please, Boussac, bottom line, tell me how to resolve my claim, PLEASE!!!!!

[jaycee1974]

this is Boussac =  http://eupse.fr/noizat_pierre/9708718

[jaycee1974]

Paymium
73 rue du Château
92100 Boulogne-Billancourt
FRANCE

[vassilis]

Goldenboy, if your url doesn't work, be sure to include the www:
www.instawallet.org/w/XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Boussac, please tell me who to contact. How do I resolve my claim? My instawallet url doesn't work!

[jaycee1974]

as i thought, they didnt responce !

all whitch get scammed either, please pm me for working against this theft company!
We have some Coins in the Fund and I am willing to give 33% of the Coins they hold back from me!!! (thats from my 34.35 BTC more than 11 BTC)
So I think a few more scamed Guys and we can get active!

[marcus_of_augustus]

So I sent a few btc to friends and family early in Instawallet days to spread the word, they are now looking for those coins.

What do we need to do to recover them?


thanks davout