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Author Topic: A simple way to stop Bitcoins loss & make transactions without fees.  (Read 1738 times)
vandeam
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December 14, 2013, 01:04:35 PM
 #1

Hi guys,
I thought about why not implement a password for each transaction made so when person A sends person B coins
they are encrypted with a password first.

i think this can solve 2 issues with 1 hit.

for example:
Person A send person B 1BTC
Person A encrypts it with a password so person B will have to input the password first before the transaction can be activated.
if person B doesn't know the password then the bitcoins wont be sent.
that way we wont lose Bitcoins if they are sent to the wrong person/wallet + it doesn't overload the system with 0.00000001 transactions.

this also can solve the problem with spamming 0.0000001 bitcoins to adresses without having to take fee for them.
only when the person knows the password, only then it is sent as a transaction, but if no password is inserted it is not considered as a transaction and it not overloads the system.

if you want to donate bitcoins to a certain adress,the person that you are sending them the transaction will tell you with what password to encrypt the transaction so they can be received automatically.

any thoughts ?

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Borbolon
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December 14, 2013, 01:19:54 PM
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Interesting, but how would that make the transactions fee free?
vandeam
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December 14, 2013, 01:32:52 PM
 #3

Interesting, but how would that make the transactions fee free?

A password implementing for each transaction is a feature you can use to send the bitcoins.
when you will use the "password transaction" you will be able to send the transaction without a fee because it can't be spammed.
Person B would have to know + input the password inorder to activate the transaction.

fee's are made to reward the miners + make less network spamming with 0.00000001 transactions..

am i missing something ? its an idea i have to improve Bitcoin, you guys can continue develope it further

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December 14, 2013, 01:44:33 PM
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OP,

What you're taking about will never happen with Bitcoin, it would be a complete change of protocol.  How would you force every transaction to have a password?

Plus people could still easily spam the network.  To send a transaction it would have to propagate out to find the right recipient, so someone could still spam out junk transactions... hell it'd probably be worse, because no one would be able to tell what a real transaction was (if it were encrypted). 
vandeam
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December 14, 2013, 01:51:21 PM
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OP,

What you're taking about will never happen with Bitcoin, it would be a complete change of protocol.  How would you force every transaction to have a password?

Plus people could still easily spam the network.  To send a transaction it would have to propagate out to find the right recipient, so someone could still spam out junk transactions... hell it'd probably be worse, because no one would be able to tell what a real transaction was (if it were encrypted).  

ok so lets make it easyer we wont have to make the change on the Bitcoin protocol, if everyone agrees we will implement this feature on every wallet? wallet to wallet password?

i think its a small feature that only requires both person A and person B to know the password inorder to activate the transaction.

i know i would use it every time i send a bitcoin from my 1st wallet to my 2nd wallet and be Sure that i'm sending it to the right person!,
if not it wont be sent, easy as that.

i have already lost some coin by sending it to the wrong adress.

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December 14, 2013, 01:57:27 PM
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that way we wont lose Bitcoins if they are sent to the wrong person/wallet + it doesn't overload the system with 0.00000001 transactions.

Aren't those two issues already pretty much solved?

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December 14, 2013, 02:38:03 PM
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OP,

What you're taking about will never happen with Bitcoin, it would be a complete change of protocol.  How would you force every transaction to have a password?

Plus people could still easily spam the network.  To send a transaction it would have to propagate out to find the right recipient, so someone could still spam out junk transactions... hell it'd probably be worse, because no one would be able to tell what a real transaction was (if it were encrypted).  

ok so lets make it easyer we wont have to make the change on the Bitcoin protocol, if everyone agrees we will implement this feature on every wallet? wallet to wallet password?

i think its a small feature that only requires both person A and person B to know the password inorder to activate the transaction.

i know i would use it every time i send a bitcoin from my 1st wallet to my 2nd wallet and be Sure that i'm sending it to the right person!,
if not it wont be sent, easy as that.

i have already lost some coin by sending it to the wrong adress.

I can tell you right now, not everyone is going to agree to that.  Interesting idea, but not practical at all.
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December 14, 2013, 02:45:26 PM
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OP,

What you're taking about will never happen with Bitcoin, it would be a complete change of protocol.  How would you force every transaction to have a password?

Plus people could still easily spam the network.  To send a transaction it would have to propagate out to find the right recipient, so someone could still spam out junk transactions... hell it'd probably be worse, because no one would be able to tell what a real transaction was (if it were encrypted).  

ok so lets make it easyer we wont have to make the change on the Bitcoin protocol, if everyone agrees we will implement this feature on every wallet? wallet to wallet password?

i think its a small feature that only requires both person A and person B to know the password inorder to activate the transaction.

i know i would use it every time i send a bitcoin from my 1st wallet to my 2nd wallet and be Sure that i'm sending it to the right person!,
if not it wont be sent, easy as that.

i have already lost some coin by sending it to the wrong adress.

I can tell you right now, not everyone is going to agree to that.  Interesting idea, but not practical at all.


why is it not practical ?
its a nice feature which you can choose to use or not to use, very simple.
but the option for this would be great i think.

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December 14, 2013, 02:56:13 PM
 #9

interesting idea but personally I wouldn’t want to have to send another person a password in order to make a transaction. I don't think lost bitcoins is really a problem is it? Yes a lot have been lost so far but as the value goes up it seems less and less likely that people will lose them. And even if some more are lost, we have 2,100,000,000,000,000 Shtochis, so it seems like there are enough. (is that right 2.1 Quadrillion Satoshis? (also just for reference, I wonder how many dollars there are?))
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December 14, 2013, 03:17:25 PM
 #10

interesting idea but personally I wouldn’t want to have to send another person a password in order to make a transaction. I don't think lost bitcoins is really a problem is it? Yes a lot have been lost so far but as the value goes up it seems less and less likely that people will lose them. And even if some more are lost, we have 2,100,000,000,000,000 Shtochis, so it seems like there are enough. (is that right 2.1 Quadrillion Satoshis? (also just for reference, I wonder how many dollars there are?))

why would one want to risk losing coins ? with this feature this can easily be solved, you dont have to use this feature if you dont want. i personally think its a great idea for people like me who want to be sure they send the bitcoins to the right person (wallet).

rebuilder
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December 14, 2013, 03:31:52 PM
 #11

You can do this already.

1. generate private/public key pair
2. transfer the desired amount of BTC to the public key
3. encrypt private key using the chosen password
4. send the encrypted private key to the recipient of the transaction, who either already knows the password already or will learn it.

I don't see that this is very useful, myself. Even if you automate the keypair creation, encryption and message sending, you've introduced the security issue of having to transmit the password without it being captured. Pretty soon you start to think maybe you could just PGP-encrypt the key with the recipient's public key and voila, you're back where you started.

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vandeam
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December 14, 2013, 03:50:33 PM
 #12

You can do this already.

1. generate private/public key pair
2. transfer the desired amount of BTC to the public key
3. encrypt private key using the chosen password
4. send the encrypted private key to the recipient of the transaction, who either already knows the password already or will learn it.

I don't see that this is very useful, myself. Even if you automate the keypair creation, encryption and message sending, you've introduced the security issue of having to transmit the password without it being captured. Pretty soon you start to think maybe you could just PGP-encrypt the key with the recipient's public key and voila, you're back where you started.

the way you described it, its complicated, i only propose giving the ability to wallets to send "transaction password" before the transaction is made, from wallet to wallet.

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December 14, 2013, 04:06:08 PM
 #13

If you didn't have to send a fee for transactions with passwords, where would the incentive for the miners go to keep mining blocks? In the future, most mining profits will come from transaction fees, not block rewards.

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December 14, 2013, 04:23:45 PM
 #14

Payment protocol designed to help people be certain they are paying the correct address. Hopefully in version 0.9!

Hardforks aren't that hard.
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December 14, 2013, 06:19:58 PM
 #15

What you're taking about will never happen with Bitcoin, it would be a complete change of protocol.  How would you force every transaction to have a password?
Actually, wouldn't simply enforce every transaction to be multisig do the trick?
Not that I'd advocate such a change.

Yeah, well... I'm gonna go build my own blockchain, with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the blockchain!
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December 14, 2013, 06:47:52 PM
 #16

What is the status of the 1 BTC between the sending time and the time the recipient uses the password?
Do you allow the sender to re-spend it?

If not, then you didn't solve anything; the coin could still be sent to a wrong address and lost forever.
If you do allow resepnding, then the recipient can no longer trust the transaction; every transaction will open a potential race between the sender reusing the coin, and a recipient unlocking the password.

So, password protected transactions are no-go for Bitcoin.
vandeam
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December 14, 2013, 10:49:57 PM
 #17

What is the status of the 1 BTC between the sending time and the time the recipient uses the password?
Do you allow the sender to re-spend it?

If not, then you didn't solve anything; the coin could still be sent to a wrong address and lost forever.
If you do allow resepnding, then the recipient can no longer trust the transaction; every transaction will open a potential race between the sender reusing the coin, and a recipient unlocking the password.

So, password protected transactions are no-go for Bitcoin.

the status is untill the transaction is not confirmed or canceled you can't send bitcoins.
its cant be lost because if he doesn't confirm in 1-3 minutes or how much time u want.. it is canceled.

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