Mining in the cold

[VentMine]

I want to put a miner (S9) in my shed, it is not heated. I live in Canada, it can get as low as -40degC.

-Is there a concern when the miner is cold and is stored at as low as -40?
-I understand once the miner is cold and starts to heat up, condensation will happen and might cause a problem. I would assume everything would be fine as long as you let any moisture dry out before starting?
-Is there a concern starting up the miner from a cold temperature, like -40 or -20 degC?

THX  

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[BigFun]

Good god, -40C, that's incomprehensible.  Then again I live in Texas where it will be in the 70s(F) next week..

These S9s like to be run warm, I have two that hash the best when the chip temp is over 80.  This is confirmed by Bitmain's last few autotune firmware releases that crank the fan speed down to get the chip temp in the 80-100 degree range.  I downgraded the firmware on mine to an earlier version that allows fan speed control, I suggest you do the same so you can set the fan speed pretty low to keep the boards warm.

If you're going to keep it in a shed I suggest putting a filter on the intake fan, they can be found on Amazon pretty cheap.  If you want links let me know.

Condensation should not be an issue as the metal is rising in temperature relative to the ambient air.  At those crazy low temps I image the air humidity is fairly low anyway.

[SparkedDev]

One thing to watch in that case is condensation it needs to be a more temperature controlled so if you mean out side no.
If its just a window open it shouldn't be to bad since the rig will generate its own heat, moisture should be your biggest fear.
Dry cold is fine , wet moist air can cause many issue. But then again many more people who have tested it will be able to tell you much more.

[BigFun]

Maybe I'm missing something but why would condensation be an issue?  The miner is warmer than the ambient air.  It's no different than a hot cup of coffee, condensation doesn't form on the cup.  It does when something is colder than ambient air, like a glass of iced tea.

[adaseb]

Only issue is if you turn it off, it wont start hashing cold.

[BigFun]

Agreed, adaseb


For the OP, if you need to download the older firmware I was talking about you can find it here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1493601.msg16564861#msg16564861

[fr4nkthetank]

should be good if its a closed shed. better if shed with isolation.  if it rains, does it get really humid inside ?  My shed (i have no miners in there though) doesnt, so I assume its fine.  And yeah -40 is freakin cold.  Perfect to go skiing, no one on the hill mwahahahahahahah (im in quebec, its more like coldest = -35).  winter is awesome, just dress for it and you can chill outside.  Really the only problem is sometimes is so damn cold your beer freezes quarter way through.

[leowonderful]

Condensation will probably not be an issue as long as humidity is low, which it will be nine out of ten times. Water is your biggest enemy right now, so make sure to seal things up and not let anything get through. Occasionally monitor the miner to make sure nothings gone bad with it, the miner's GUI doesn't show everything.

[takagari]

Hello fellow Canadian,
I also hail from the land of the friging cold as hell.

I'm in MB, I ran some in my shed last year, it's a hasle, the biggest issue is ventilation, which at the coldest temp's it won't need a lot.. but also air quality.
Your miner will get dirty fast.

I run mine in my furnace room, ducted directly into my return during the winter.
Some days my furnace doesn't kick on at all.
Basically free power

[VentMine]

Maybe I'm missing something but why would condensation be an issue?  The miner is warmer than the ambient air.  It's no different than a hot cup of coffee, condensation doesn't form on the cup.  It does when something is colder than ambient air, like a glass of iced tea.

Sorry I should of elaborated regarding condensation. Primarily my concern would be when the miner is off, and is in a cold ambient temperature of the shed, say -20 deg, followed by increasing the ambient shed temperature using a space heater prior to starting up the miner. I just figured it might be a risk that as the ambient air temp increases, the internals of the miner are still cold, and hence condensation would occur.

[VentMine]

Only issue is if you turn it off, it wont start hashing cold.

Thanks but could you or someone else elaborate? I still want to know:

-Is there a risk to the equipment (S9) when storing in very cold temperatures of -40 degC? Like will the thermal expansion of the material (shrinkage I guess) possible damage the circuitry? Maybe the board shrinks 10% but the conduit metals shrink further, causing cracks etc. Surely there is a minimum temperature. I don't see any info on Bitmains site for the S9, however for it's APW3+ power supply it's spec calls for operating temperature from -20degC to 60 degC. There is a potential where I live if the power stops, the ambient temperature can be as low as -40degC, so this is my concern. I'm not worried about when the miner is operating, because the temperature will be well above room temperature depending how I set up ventilation.

-What is the minimum temperature to start the miner? You say it won't start hashing cold. So do I need to ensure a minimum temperature before starting up the equipment?

Also thanks others for the comments and suggestions on filtering the air supply, I will keep this in mind!!

Cheers

[takagari]

To cold can hurt it really, don't believe they have a built in warm up.
Do you have sufficient power in the shed? and is it insulated? how vented is it?

[BigFun]

Only issue is if you turn it off, it wont start hashing cold.

Thanks but could you or someone else elaborate? I still want to know:

-Is there a risk to the equipment (S9) when storing in very cold temperatures of -40 degC? Like will the thermal expansion of the material (shrinkage I guess) possible damage the circuitry? Maybe the board shrinks 10% but the conduit metals shrink further, causing cracks etc. Surely there is a minimum temperature. I don't see any info on Bitmains site for the S9, however for it's APW3+ power supply it's spec calls for operating temperature from -20degC to 60 degC. There is a potential where I live if the power stops, the ambient temperature can be as low as -40degC, so this is my concern. I'm not worried about when the miner is operating, because the temperature will be well above room temperature depending how I set up ventilation.

-What is the minimum temperature to start the miner? You say it won't start hashing cold. So do I need to ensure a minimum temperature before starting up the equipment?

Also thanks others for the comments and suggestions on filtering the air supply, I will keep this in mind!!

Cheers

Well I can't give you hard numbers and I doubt anyone else here can either.  I can however tell you what I found this morning.  I have two S9's running in an RV on my property.  I had the fans set to 80% and the RV vents open.  We had a cold snap last night where temps dropped into the high 30s(F).  Both miners were blowing cold air when I checked on them today and were showing all XXX on the interface page.  Restarting them fixed the problem and they are back to hashing beautifully.  My guess is that the boards got too cold overnight.

Bitmain released a new firmware recently that is supposed to address the fan speed hunting issue and I have flashed mine with this new update.  You could do the same and let it do is thing regarding the board temps.

[dogie]

So to summarize others:

1. Yes its an issue
2. Condensation is a huge issue
3. Starting these miners up is going to be critical; starting from a cold start will probably end in disaster.
4. Your major issue is keeping the miner warm while mining - something that some Chinese farms had to contend with. Consider putting your miner in a box (upside down plastic container with some open spaces?) which will greenhouse the miner and its immediate environment up to a more pallet-able ambient.
5. Same for PSUs.
6. Only let your miners drink filtered air! You'll accumulate all sorts of garbage while mining outside.

[Hung_Daddy]

DO NOT LEAVE IT UNDER -20

Ive heard of this happening on another fourm a long time ago and it just broke

Do more research maybe im wrong idk

[VentMine]

Hey just a quick update, nothing new for a lot of longtime locals here...

But I currently have the miner in my garage, there's been a cold snap and I found my garage temperature dipped down to -5 deg C. Sometime later my S9 dropped in hashrate, from about 14 th to 10 th. I fixed the temperature situation and cycled the power and it hashing perfectly once again.

So, one thing I learned for sure is sub 0 temperature will result in a drop in hash rate. I'm not sure what would of happened if I left it at that ambient temperature but I'm not willing to take the risk to find out.

Cheers

[jstew]

Only issue is if you turn it off, it wont start hashing cold.

this^^^

were i live it can get to 20* below  , i feed my miners filtered air from outside in the winter , if u need to power off and power the miner back on in that kind of temp it usually wont restart.

last winter i had to keep a hair dryer in my datacenter for restarting miners when it got cold out , oddly enough the  only ones i had issues with were the miners that used the beagle bone controllers , all the s3;s would start right up no matter how cold , for this winter i have restricted the fresh air intakes a bit to keep the miners warmer , and all is good , though our coldest night so far was only 2*


as mentioned s7 and s9 miners do not like to run very cold, so if u have those u may have issues,, spondoolies gear absolutely loved the cold , infact im still runing a bunch of sp20 and sp31's, older miners like the s1/s3/s4/s5 walso ran just fine in the very cold temps , with the exception of restart issues on the s4 and s5's , warming up the controllers with a hair dryer on low solved that issues though if they wouldnt boot up on there own


i dont expect any issues this year though with the restricted air intakes  and the fact i have alot more gear now and it keeps the building decently warm

[VentMine]

Thanks for this information jstew, very interesting. I will keep a hairdryer handy

[isoneguy]

Microchips aren't designed to withstand temperatures of -40 if you look at the bitmain specifications their stable operating temperature is   0°C to 40°C

In all honesty if they hit -40 they will probably never turn back on...chances are if they hit -5 they might never turn back on either.

The mining company will tell you what temperatures the chip is stable at...going above or below that rating can cause permanent and potentially fatal damage.

[qctechno]

Only issue is if you turn it off, it wont start hashing cold.

this^^^

were i live it can get to 20* below  , i feed my miners filtered air from outside in the winter , if u need to power off and power the miner back on in that kind of temp it usually wont restart.

last winter i had to keep a hair dryer in my datacenter for restarting miners when it got cold out , oddly enough the  only ones i had issues with were the miners that used the beagle bone controllers , all the s3;s would start right up no matter how cold , for this winter i have restricted the fresh air intakes a bit to keep the miners warmer , and all is good , though our coldest night so far was only 2*


as mentioned s7 and s9 miners do not like to run very cold, so if u have those u may have issues,, spondoolies gear absolutely loved the cold , infact im still runing a bunch of sp20 and sp31's, older miners like the s1/s3/s4/s5 walso ran just fine in the very cold temps , with the exception of restart issues on the s4 and s5's , warming up the controllers with a hair dryer on low solved that issues though if they wouldnt boot up on there own


i dont expect any issues this year though with the restricted air intakes  and the fact i have alot more gear now and it keeps the building decently warm

Cold boot is a no go for sure. Pre-heat it in-house to warm up then trow it in the shed.

My S9 like to be cooled. It's a batch 10 / 11.8TH
Ambient temp outside, -13C last night , is 10 Degrees C in my shed. Very low hardware error and run like a champ at 13.1TH/s 

[qctechno]

-27 C. Outside, around 1-2 C. in my shed. Now the damn beast is quiet 

[isoneguy]

You're running them waaay out of the 0-40c range
http://imgur.com/a/hF1sy

Sadly...still not quiet  

[qctechno]

You're running them waaay out of the 0-40c range

I'm still in the operating range, ambient is 2-3degrees C..
But outside temp. is freezing cold today.

[takagari]

Is is possible to mine with a new Xbox or Playstation?  I heard somewhere that this is possible?

NO

[QuintLeo]

Is is possible to mine with a new Xbox or Playstation?  I heard somewhere that this is possible?

 If you can find a way to get LINUX on them, you could - but their performance is going to be a joke.

 For ALL practical purposes, they have an AMD A10 APU in them as their only processing - only difference is that the PS4 series uses GDDR 5 instead of DDR3 which makes it a little faster, but you're still looking at a GPU with very similar stats to the ancient AMD HD 7750 or the rebadge of the HD 7750 to the R7 250.


 In other words, VERY LOW hashrate for a VERY HIGH power consumption = LOSE MONEY.


 The CPU side isn't even worth thinking about for Bitcoin mining.

[takagari]

Is is possible to mine with a new Xbox or Playstation?  I heard somewhere that this is possible?

 If you can find a way to get LINUX on them, you could - but their performance is going to be a joke.

 For ALL practical purposes, they have an AMD A10 APU in them as their only processing - only difference is that the PS4 series uses GDDR 5 instead of DDR3 which makes it a little faster, but you're still looking at a GPU with very similar stats to the ancient AMD HD 7750 or the rebadge of the HD 7750 to the R7 250.


 In other words, VERY LOW hashrate for a VERY HIGH power consumption = LOSE MONEY.


 The CPU side isn't even worth thinking about for Bitcoin mining.

Guess I should edit my answer...
Lol
You CAN.. But not feasible. The highest end computers out there right now are not practical for mining BTC. so gaming systems are a hard no.
Not that you can't, just that you shoudln't

[Prelude]

My farm has been enjoying -25c temperatures the last few days. I love how everything is more efficient with cold temps, I'm saving thousands of watts vs summer mining.

[dEjAvU97]

My farm has been enjoying -25c temperatures the last few days. I love how everything is more efficient with cold temps, I'm saving thousands of watts vs summer mining.

you are lucky live in a place that had winter season, I live in a tropical climate, the temperature each day about 33 degrees Celsius, to makes the room cool it takes cost about 5 cents per kwh or 40% of the maintenance cost.

[Marvell1]

My farm has been enjoying -25c temperatures the last few days. I love how everything is more efficient with cold temps, I'm saving thousands of watts vs summer mining.

same here my only issue is the dust my revisible exhuadt fans bring in
so anoying having to dust every day

[coolcoinz]

My farm has been enjoying -25c temperatures the last few days. I love how everything is more efficient with cold temps, I'm saving thousands of watts vs summer mining.

you are lucky live in a place that had winter season, I live in a tropical climate, the temperature each day about 33 degrees Celsius, to makes the room cool it takes cost about 5 cents per kwh or 40% of the maintenance cost.

I envy you. It's 0*C outside and it's getting dark at 3 p.m. If I had sun in here all year long you wouldn't find a space on my roof not covered with solar panels. Want to switch?

My farm has been enjoying -25c temperatures the last few days. I love how everything is more efficient with cold temps, I'm saving thousands of watts vs summer mining.

same here my only issue is the dust my revisible exhuadt fans bring in
so anoying having to dust every day

Covering the fans with mesh should help. At least you'll be dusting the covers not the whole room.

[manduul]

So, how has it been doing? I live in a country where it beats Antarctica from time to time when it comes to who's got the colder temps. It's currently -26C (-15F) and I got a S9 inside a room but with all the windows and doors open. Miner is blowing towards the windows and doors tho.

Screeshot: https://cloud.hello.mn/s/qwOC0igR2RuEvx4

It's been a year since you've posted your original question, bet you have a lot to say

My S9 is a September batch, and I don't think they like to run warm. Or they still like to run warm?

[imteamleader]

Hello fellow Canadian,
I also hail from the land of the friging cold as hell.

I'm in MB, I ran some in my shed last year, it's a hasle, the biggest issue is ventilation, which at the coldest temp's it won't need a lot.. but also air quality.
Your miner will get dirty fast.

I run mine in my furnace room, ducted directly into my return during the winter.
Some days my furnace doesn't kick on at all.
Basically free power

Do you have any pictures of how you are connecting the miners into the cold air return? I am planning to do this (especially with the tax hike on natural gas in Alberta next year).

I was planning on taking some air from the cold air return through the miners and back into it. My biggest consern is fluff and dust as it would be pre-filter.  I will try any set up a filter before the miners.

[millerfilm]

Answer: View the Antminer S9's specs: "Operating Temperature: 0°C to 40°C"

https://shop.bitmain.com/antminer_s9_asic_bitcoin_miner.htm?flag=specifications

I admire your adventurousness. But, all Antminer owners really should carefully read the specs for their equipment. There are likely very specific reasons why Bitmain specifies these specs. So, operating in any temperature below freezing is likely, to very likely, have adverse or even damaging effects to your equipment.

[millerfilm]

My S9 is a September batch, and I don't think they like to run warm. Or they still like to run warm?

Highly unlikely that they like to run warm. That is why they have specs that allow them to run as low as 0°C, but want to be run at no more than 40°C. Computer processors and similar chips, such as CPU's, GPU's and Antminer's ASIC chips, run better when it's cooler. The fans run in proportion to the heat inside the miner. So, you will, at least, be paying less in electricity with the lower fan speeds. And, my thought is that power usage should be lower if the chips aren't having to work as hard in higher temperatures.

It would be interesting to see if miner users have charted power usage in relation to operating temperature.

The trick is to keep the Antminer within specs. And, 0°C is the floor for Operating Temperature. I am considering the installation of electrical outlets in my garage so I can run my L3+, and my upcoming S9, in the garage during the winter.

My garage's temperatures are not likely to fall below 0°C. And, I will have to find somewhere else for them when winter is over. But, you still have to be careful of moisture and dust. My miners would be near the far wall, away from the garage door.

I think most miners understand, but if you are new to running these machines, the area where you have your miners should be clean and free of dust, and not be in an area where dust could be coming in. You also need good air flow, which I think most miners understand.

Otherwise, reading Bitmain's specs is important. Bitmain very likely has good reasons for specifying the specs that they do.

[millerfilm]

same here my only issue is the dust my revisible exhuadt fans bring in
so anoying having to dust every day

My thought would be to find air filter material, cut it into squares the size of your intake fan, and put that filter material on the back of that intake fan.

A problem with an Antminer is that you would have to disassemble it to have a chance at cleaning dust from inside. And, with all those thin heatsinks, it wouldn't be easy. So, stopping dust from going into the miner would be a good preventive measure.