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Author Topic: [ICO] BetBase SHARES | Invest in Bitcoin gambling | Escrow by RHavar  (Read 9358 times)
johny1976
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November 23, 2016, 01:59:17 PM
 #21

Could anyone suggest some trustworthy escrow holder we could background check and possibly arrange a deal with?
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November 23, 2016, 02:08:44 PM
 #22

Could anyone suggest some trustworthy escrow holder we could background check and possibly arrange a deal with?
\

Have you contacted Sebastianju? He is a well known ESCROW on bitcointalk. I seen him here doing many ESCROW..also if you ahve promotional bounties for blog reviews I would like to reserve one for when I come back from my parents at the the weekend.  Smiley


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November 23, 2016, 02:25:30 PM
 #23

Could anyone suggest some trustworthy escrow holder we could background check and possibly arrange a deal with?
\

Have you contacted Sebastianju? He is a well known ESCROW on bitcointalk. I seen him here doing many ESCROW..also if you ahve promotional bounties for blog reviews I would like to reserve one for when I come back from my parents at the the weekend.  Smiley

Thank you, will check that guy.

Sure we have, you can read all information here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1690150.0

Just contact us then, we'll check your post.
5ato5hi8itcoin
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November 23, 2016, 02:50:52 PM
 #24

I was intrigued by the idea and the concept just need to see where the money will be saved through ESCROW  Huh

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November 23, 2016, 03:25:28 PM
 #25

I was intrigued by the idea and the concept just need to see where the money will be saved through ESCROW  Huh

Thanks. Working on it, will keep you updated.
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November 23, 2016, 05:13:47 PM
 #26

I don't understand what the role of an escrow agent would be. It sounds like the escrow is supposed to hold all the investment until the shares are issued? Then once the shares are issued, the escrow agent would transfer the sum to betbase?

However, I don't see what that protects against. If betbase were scammers, they would still just issue shares (they would just never have any value) and get the money. So unless I'm missing something, a simple escrow would only serve to increase investors risk?

(That is, unless the escrow agent is expected to hold the money for the long-term and keep track of expenses to try avoid embezzlement)

bustabit.com :: The social bitcoin gambling site
BanzaiBTC
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November 23, 2016, 05:17:01 PM
 #27

I don't understand what the role of an escrow agent would be. It sounds like the escrow is supposed to hold all the investment until the shares are issued? Then once the shares are issued, the escrow agent would transfer the sum to betbase?

However, I don't see what that protects against. If betbase were scammers, they would still just issue shares (they would just never have any value) and get the money. So unless I'm missing something, a simple escrow would only serve to increase investors risk?

(That is, unless the escrow agent is expected to hold the money for the long-term and keep track of expenses to try avoid embezzlement)

Escrows are there to ensure the development team at least gives out the shares/tokens/coins..  Wink
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November 23, 2016, 05:26:29 PM
 #28

Disclaimer: I am a part owner of MoneyPot, which this product would be a competitor with.


That said, I would not do another project with Johnny. I gave him work a few months ago to build a site using MoneyPot's API (wagecoins.com), and not only did he completely whiff the timeline (a little over a week turned into multiple months), but he completely messed up one of the key features (rakeback function) to the point another developer had to be brought in.

I will ask David (the client in this case, owner of wagecoins) to leave a review here as well.


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November 23, 2016, 05:27:24 PM
 #29

Escrows are there to ensure the development team at least gives out the shares/tokens/coins..  Wink

Are the tokens not worthless if they aren't backed by anything? How is having worthless shares better than having nothing?

It seems like investors would have to trust two parties (BetBase and escrow agent) rather than just one (BetBase) but get nothing substantial in return.
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November 23, 2016, 05:31:32 PM
 #30

Escrows are there to ensure the development team at least gives out the shares/tokens/coins..  Wink

Are the tokens not worthless if they aren't backed by anything? How is having worthless shares better than having nothing?

It seems like investors would have to trust two parties (BetBase and escrow agent) rather than just one (BetBase) but get nothing substantial in return.

Dont get me wrong.. I completely agree with you.. But something, is better then nothing.. Thats my point.. Even if that something is worthless in the end.. lol..
Just my 2cts..
johny1976
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November 23, 2016, 05:36:39 PM
 #31

Escrows are there to ensure the development team at least gives out the shares/tokens/coins..  Wink

Are the tokens not worthless if they aren't backed by anything? How is having worthless shares better than having nothing?

It seems like investors would have to trust two parties (BetBase and escrow agent) rather than just one (BetBase) but get nothing substantial in return.

Dont get me wrong.. I completely agree with you.. But something, is better then nothing.. Thats my point.. Even if that something is worthless in the end.. lol..
Just my 2cts..

I agree with both of you guys. There's simply no reliable way to proof anyone that the given offer/service or whatever is not a scam. But I understand that sometimes scam is proven before the shares are even distributed and in such case the escrow can really help.

Whatever the reason is, investors want escrow. We will gladly obey.
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November 23, 2016, 05:40:25 PM
 #32

Interesting idea, although the moneypot work issue doesn't build much confidence in this project actually getting completed, would be good to see the response from the dev regarding this.


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RHavar
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November 23, 2016, 05:52:50 PM
 #33

BTW is this the same people from behind coindice? A while back I volunteered to help someone from bustabit who bought those scripts and had all their money stollen. If I'm not mistaken, this was the same outcome of all people who bought the scripts?

It was a while ago, so my memory is a big foggy -- but I believe that in a less than an hour I found 2 or 3 serious security vulnerabilities. I remember one was that you could use bets to undo the change in balance from a withdrawal (at the start of the bet processing it recorded the persons balance, and then at the end of the bet processing set the balance to  $BALANCE = $OLD_BALANCE + $WIN_OR_LOSS_AMOUNT, which would overwrite all actions in the mean time (e.g. withdrawals). I think enough vulnerability was you could just DDoS the site, until the RPC would fail with  "could not connect to  username:password@host"  or something, leaking the username/password). And I think there was another, but my memory is pretty hazy.


That said, no one is perfect and pretty much everyone fucks up things in one way or another (and that applies to me, I had a very serious screw up of my own). So I won't fault you for it, but I think that I lot can be learnt from how it was all dealt with. I never really followed it much after that, so what ended up happening? Did the script get fixed? And there now coindice sites operating without being hacked? Were people who bought the scripts reimbursed for the hackings, or at least for the money they paid for the scripts? etc.

bustabit.com :: The social bitcoin gambling site
johny1976
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November 23, 2016, 06:00:49 PM
 #34

Disclaimer: I am a part owner of MoneyPot, which this product would be a competitor with.


That said, I would not do another project with Johnny. I gave him work a few months ago to build a site using MoneyPot's API (wagecoins.com), and not only did he completely whiff the timeline (a little over a week turned into multiple months), but he completely messed up one of the key features (rakeback function) to the point another developer had to be brought in.

I will ask David (the client in this case, owner of wagecoins) to leave a review here as well.


Interesting idea, although the moneypot work issue doesn't build much confidence in this project actually getting completed, would be good to see the response from the dev regarding this.

This is true. We had work assigned through AcoinL.L.C, the work had to be done for David (project owner). Unfortunately that timing was bad for our company because we lost 2 of our programmers that month (one of them left before, the other left in about a week after getting the work). So I took the job myself with my co-worker. We absolutely didn't met the timeline I must admit.

Despite all we're still in contact with David and I could say our relationship is good. We communicate at Skype (even today, we wrote him about our service and he really liked it). We've tried hard to actively resolve everything back then and I think there's no hard feelings between us and David.


BTW is this the same people from behind coindice? A while back I volunteered to help someone from bustabit who bought those scripts and had all their money stollen. If I'm not mistaken, this was the same outcome of all people who bought the scripts?

It was a while ago, so my memory is a big foggy -- but I believe that in a less than an hour I found 2 or 3 serious security vulnerabilities. I remember one was that you could use bets to undo the change in balance from a withdrawal (at the start of the bet processing it recorded the persons balance, and then at the end of the bet processing set the balance to  $BALANCE = $OLD_BALANCE + $WIN_OR_LOSS_AMOUNT, which would overwrite all actions in the mean time (e.g. withdrawals). I think enough vulnerability was you could just DDoS the site, until the RPC would fail with  "could not connect to  username:password@host"  or something, leaking the username/password). And I think there was another, but my memory is pretty hazy.


That said, no one is perfect and pretty much everyone fucks up things in one way or another (and that applies to me, I had a very serious screw up of my own). So I won't fault you for it, but I think that I lot can be learnt from how it was all dealt with. I never really followed it much after that, so what ended up happening? Did the script get fixed? And there now coindice sites operating without being hacked? Were people who bought the scripts reimbursed for the hackings, or at least for the money they paid for the scripts? etc.

That was our beginnings. It's true we've learnt security the hard way. And your information are correct. Anyway these days our scripts work with no problem and we also have some employees for security only. Most of the victims of our poor coding back then was compensated. All of them received at least the price of the script.

But as you say, it's a history. We've made some pretty big mistakes, but I see it as good thing we could learn from. Now we have pretty skilled team of security guys we're working with every day and everything is properly tested. Security is more important for us than enything else.
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November 23, 2016, 06:04:30 PM
 #35

P.S. While I'm busy making friends, I'd like to offer my services as escrow. I would be willing to act as escrow, where I only release funds after  issuance of all shares and personally conducting a basic due-diligence and security audit of the code.

I would be happy to offer this for a flat 3%, but I would only be able to offer due-diligence/security review if the ICO got > 100 BTC invested. If my findings or opinion is negative, I would offer a period for people to get a refund on their bitcoin (in exchange for shares) before releasing it to betbase. Otherwise I would release funds to betbase, and not further be involved Grin

bustabit.com :: The social bitcoin gambling site
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November 23, 2016, 06:08:41 PM
 #36

P.S. While I'm busy making friends, I'd like to offer my services as escrow. I would be willing to act as escrow, where I only release funds after  issuance of all shares and personally conducting a basic due-diligence and security audit of the code.

I would be happy to offer this for a flat 3%, but I would only be able to offer due-diligence/security review if the ICO got > 100 BTC invested. If my findings or opinion is negative, I would offer a period for people to get a refund on their bitcoin (in exchange for shares) before releasing it to betbase. Otherwise I would release funds to betbase, and not further be involved Grin

This seems very interesting for us, let me do some checks and discuss it with my team. We need to have the escrow "contract" done by tonight (CET).
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November 23, 2016, 06:28:52 PM
 #37

P.S. While I'm busy making friends, I'd like to offer my services as escrow. I would be willing to act as escrow, where I only release funds after  issuance of all shares and personally conducting a basic due-diligence and security audit of the code.

I would be happy to offer this for a flat 3%, but I would only be able to offer due-diligence/security review if the ICO got > 100 BTC invested. If my findings or opinion is negative, I would offer a period for people to get a refund on their bitcoin (in exchange for shares) before releasing it to betbase. Otherwise I would release funds to betbase, and not further be involved Grin

and you would release the funds to whom? why not keep it and handle it as long term escrow so all investors can be sure it will not disappear into the dark?

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November 23, 2016, 06:30:02 PM
 #38

P.S. While I'm busy making friends, I'd like to offer my services as escrow. I would be willing to act as escrow, where I only release funds after  issuance of all shares and personally conducting a basic due-diligence and security audit of the code.

I would be happy to offer this for a flat 3%, but I would only be able to offer due-diligence/security review if the ICO got > 100 BTC invested. If my findings or opinion is negative, I would offer a period for people to get a refund on their bitcoin (in exchange for shares) before releasing it to betbase. Otherwise I would release funds to betbase, and not further be involved Grin

and you would release the funds to whom? why not keep it and handle it as long term escrow so all investors can be sure it will not disappear into the dark?

That would be fine if we wouldn't need the money for our bankroll.
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November 23, 2016, 06:33:01 PM
 #39

ICO or Crowdfunding Smiley

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November 23, 2016, 06:33:29 PM
 #40

P.S. While I'm busy making friends, I'd like to offer my services as escrow. I would be willing to act as escrow, where I only release funds after  issuance of all shares and personally conducting a basic due-diligence and security audit of the code.

I would be happy to offer this for a flat 3%, but I would only be able to offer due-diligence/security review if the ICO got > 100 BTC invested. If my findings or opinion is negative, I would offer a period for people to get a refund on their bitcoin (in exchange for shares) before releasing it to betbase. Otherwise I would release funds to betbase, and not further be involved Grin

and you would release the funds to whom? why not keep it and handle it as long term escrow so all investors can be sure it will not disappear into the dark?

That would be fine if we wouldn't need the money for our bankroll.

RHavar knows how to handle a Bank Roll

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