MC2: A cryptocurrency based on a hybrid PoW/PoS system

[r0ach]

Not sure yet, but it'll be GPU mineable from the get go.

I find it a big concern that a coin requires an expensive graphic card to be mined. Sorry, but "democracy" and "you need to have expensive hardware" don't mix well together.

For me, everything that requires more than 25 dollars of hardware cannot be democratic. 25 dollars is the price of an Arduino, by the way.

Time to break out the shoulder high boots to wade through the piles of shit from CPU only coin propagandists.  

If I want to mine at home, I can buy only 4-10 GPUs and compete relatively well since even *most* large miners will only have something like 100 on the outlier examples.

If I want to compete on a CPU coin, spend similar or more money for 10 CPU packages, now I have to compete against a bunch of giant botnets of 50,000 CPUs.

Do you need to break out the calculator to figure out which ratio is better?  10:100 or 10:50,000

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[David Latapie]

Not sure yet, but it'll be GPU mineable from the get go.

I find it a big concern that a coin requires an expensive graphic card to be mined. Sorry, but "democracy" and "you need to have expensive hardware" don't mix well together.

For me, everything that requires more than 25 dollars of hardware cannot be democratic. 25 dollars is the price of an Arduino, by the way.

Time to break out the shoulder high boots to wade through the piles of shit from CPU only coin propagandists.  

If I want to mine at home, I can buy only 4-10 GPUs and compete relatively well since even *most* large miners will only have something like 100 on the outlier examples.

If I want to compete on a CPU coin, spend similar or more money for 10 CPU packages, now I have to compete against a bunch of giant botnets of 50,000 CPUs.

Do you need to break out the calculator to figure out which ratio is better?  10:100 or 10:50,000

CPU: everyone can male a little, some are making a lot (botnet)
GPU: most people can not do any, some do well, some do very well
Factor in all those are left out of the equation, please.
I live in a very small flat. Even one graphic card makes a lot of noise which prevents me from sleeping. Now imagine 4-to-10. I have a passive computer for this very reason: I want to sleep at night.
Now, if you can get me powerful-yet-passive GPU, I'm all ears. I heard it exists.

[r0ach]

I live in a very small flat. Even one graphic card makes a lot of noise which prevents me from sleeping.

So your reasoning claiming CPU only coins are needed and that GPU coins need to be struck down is entirely based off self interest for a particular type of house you live in without any regard to which algo will actually see better market penetration or distribution.............ok.

[Zisef]

Almost all CPU coins end up being cracked to be mined with gpu's any way.

[emontmon]

cpu coins, allow for more people to participate. non techies. as more consumers go into the market, value and use increases for that particular coin.
GPU mining limits it to certain people. your familiarity with computers, prevents you from seeing even what may appear to be simple tasks as very complex to average users.

5% adoption world wide i am sure would dwarf a botnet. and I think that is the ultimate goal, for cryptocurrency to be adopted.

[luckygenough56]

Cpu coin are cr*p. Don't try to decentralized currency me when they are botnets raping every cpu coin.

[tacotime]

My honest opinion of egalitarianism right now is that it exists in all platforms in some way, be it ASIC, GPU, or CPU.  For instance, with ASICs from Bitmain pretty much anyone can hop onto the Bitcoin network and build a massive mine.  I just got the most requests from people with GPU mining farms, so I've opted for some kind of initially GPU minable algorithm.

Mining itself is simply a "proof-of-burn" mechanism that trades power for competitive distribution, whichever way you want to do it through.

[Cablez]

Cpu coin are cr*p. Don't try to decentralized currency me when they are botnets raping every cpu coin.

At least with a GPU mineable coin the distribution will be skewed towards users who are at least partially vested in cryptos versus botnet operators who have nefarious intentions at best and are most likely dumpers.

The mining algo is not really the issue, greed is.  I think a better way for an organic coin distribution is to have MC2 off of any exchange that deals in fiat or BTC.  I am not saying that will happen (never will) but that would be one way to minimize the greed factor in the coin distribution.  Being un-exchangeable does nothing for the usefulness of the coin though so you have to balance this with the less altruistic users so the coin has a chance at success.

[Quanttek]

Well, it seems like an (almost) perfect coin

Some questions though:
1.

These tickets are spent by the stakeholder when the lottery
winner selected by the current PoW block is the same as the
ticket number.

I thought, he can spent his ticket freely to vote for a block? I think I missunderstood their sth.
2.

2. the attacker has 51% of the stake of the coin, and

So a signature also contains the amount of coins a stakeholder has to do this or

the stakeholder difficulty

is this a value based on the amount the stakeholder has?

In addition to

the attacker must withhold use of their stake transactions in addition to mining PoW blocks in secret.

you could implent, that in every transaction the hash of the most recent block has to be included and the block chain enforces the rule that the transaction can only be included in block chains that build off of that block then no one will be able to build secret block chains. This would add an additional security layer  -Source

[David Latapie]

Cpu coin are cr*p. Don't try to decentralized currency me when they are botnets raping every cpu coin.

At least with a GPU mineable coin the distribution will be skewed towards users who are at least partially vested in cryptos versus botnet operators who have nefarious intentions at best and are most likely dumpers.

The mining algo is not really the issue, greed is.  I think a better way for an organic coin distribution is to have MC2 off of any exchange that deals in fiat or BTC.  I am not saying that will happen (never will) but that would be one way to minimize the greed factor in the coin distribution.  Being un-exchangeable does nothing for the usefulness of the coin though so you have to balance this with the less altruistic users so the coin has a chance at success.

Counter-example: monero. Not exchange, only OTC. Doesn't change a thing.

I like your "mining algo is not really the issue, greed is". Perfect one-liner

[David Latapie]

These tickets are spent by the stakeholder when the lottery winner selected by the current PoW block is the same as the ticket number.

How would you compare MC2 with Sharecoin and Chancecoin (a decentralised casino)]?

[Aru Hasa-Special]

MC2 really long time

[Quanttek]

Some further questions:

Couldn't someone just creates a whole lot of addresses and then submit with every address the needed amount, so he can win the lottery safely?

I can't see any incentitive for runnig full nodes, which is a problem as you might see at bitcoin. How about the idea only full nodes receive tx_fees(running a wallet with full blockchain) and miners not?

Where is the incentitive to submit tickets? When there are no "fresh issues", you will probably earn as much, as you submit, but ypu can't use a part of your coins. This will end in nobody submitting tickets.
Or maybe, i didn't undertsand it correctly and everybody gets their money afterwards back and the lottery winner gets a reward for the block he submitted. Which one is right?

As far as I understand, even people, who didn't win in the lottery, can use their tickets, to sign a block. Otherwise it would be really insecure

[tacotime]

Some further questions:

Couldn't someone just creates a whole lot of addresses and then submit with every address the needed amount, so he can win the lottery safely?

I can't see any incentitive for runnig full nodes, which is a problem as you might see at bitcoin. How about the idea only full nodes receive tx_fees(running a wallet with full blockchain) and miners not?

Where is the incentitive to submit tickets? When there are no "fresh issues", you will probably earn as much, as you submit, but ypu can't use a part of your coins. This will end in nobody submitting tickets.
Or maybe, i didn't undertsand it correctly and everybody gets their money afterwards back and the lottery winner gets a reward for the block he submitted. Which one is right?

As far as I understand, even people, who didn't win in the lottery, can use their tickets, to sign a block. Otherwise it would be really insecure

Sorry, will answer soon. Really sick with food poisoning and was out yesterday

[Luckybit]

Not sure yet, but it'll be GPU mineable from the get go.

I find it a big concern that a coin requires an expensive graphic card to be mined. Sorry, but "democracy" and "you need to have expensive hardware" don't mix well together.

For me, everything that requires more than 25 dollars of hardware cannot be democratic. 25 dollars is the price of an Arduino, by the way.

Time to break out the shoulder high boots to wade through the piles of shit from CPU only coin propagandists.  

If I want to mine at home, I can buy only 4-10 GPUs and compete relatively well since even *most* large miners will only have something like 100 on the outlier examples.

If I want to compete on a CPU coin, spend similar or more money for 10 CPU packages, now I have to compete against a bunch of giant botnets of 50,000 CPUs.

Do you need to break out the calculator to figure out which ratio is better?  10:100 or 10:50,000

Why make it mined at all? Why not go with Proof of Stake?
Ultimately it is money which decides stake or hashing power.

[tacotime]

Well, it seems like an (almost) perfect coin

Some questions though:
1.

These tickets are spent by the stakeholder when the lottery
winner selected by the current PoW block is the same as the
ticket number.

I thought, he can spent his ticket freely to vote for a block? I think I missunderstood their sth.

Tickets can only be spent when ticket number == lottery winner number.  Ticket number is static (and randomly selected at sometime in the past), lottery winner number is random per block.

2.

2. the attacker has 51% of the stake of the coin, and

So a signature also contains the amount of coins a stakeholder has to do this or

the stakeholder difficulty

is this a value based on the amount the stakeholder has?

Stakeholder difficulty is similar to bitcoin difficulty, and is a number of coins that is fixed for some period to meet a target of 5 new tickets issued per block.  It's a minimum value required to buy a stake ticket, or really, the price of a stake ticket.

In addition to

the attacker must withhold use of their stake transactions in addition to mining PoW blocks in secret.

you could implent, that in every transaction the hash of the most recent block has to be included and the block chain enforces the rule that the transaction can only be included in block chains that build off of that block then no one will be able to build secret block chains. This would add an additional security layer  -Source

That actually doesn't help (as far as I can tell) in the situation, as you would just incorporate the headers of your malignant secret chain.

There are also severe issues with this -- if a chain is reorg'd, you can never reincorporate tx that had block header hashes that no longer exist and so double spending becomes much, much easier.

[tacotime]

Some further questions:

Couldn't someone just creates a whole lot of addresses and then submit with every address the needed amount, so he can win the lottery safely?

Ticket distribution is controlled by purchasing them with the number of coins equal to the stake difficulty, so increasing the number of addresses for coin concentration is actually deleterious (there is an input quantity limit).

I can't see any incentitive for runnig full nodes, which is a problem as you might see at bitcoin. How about the idea only full nodes receive tx_fees(running a wallet with full blockchain) and miners not?

Full node running is incentivized by the PoS system, who have it in their personal interest to ensure that abuses of the blockchain (weird tx types, tx exclusion as seen with bitcoin) does not occur.

Where is the incentitive to submit tickets? When there are no "fresh issues", you will probably earn as much, as you submit, but ypu can't use a part of your coins. This will end in nobody submitting tickets.

If you don't use your ticket to validate your block, it becomes invalid. So you are strongly incentivized to vote on your block, unless you'd prefer to lose your reward.

Or maybe, i didn't undertsand it correctly and everybody gets their money afterwards back and the lottery winner gets a reward for the block he submitted. Which one is right?

As far as I understand, even people, who didn't win in the lottery, can use their tickets, to sign a block. Otherwise it would be really insecure

Only persons with tickets corresponding to the lottery winner number can sign the block.

[Lordoftherigs]

It has been 2 weeks from last post in this tread. Are there any updates ? Dev is actively working on Monero project but this one seems to be a bit neglected.

[tacotime]

It has been 2 weeks from last post in this tread. Are there any updates ? Dev is actively working on Monero project but this one seems to be a bit neglected.

I am actively working on this more than MRO right now. I will try to push some basic code outlines this week, then hack away until regtest is functional. Stay tuned.

[FrictionlessCoin]

It has been 2 weeks from last post in this tread. Are there any updates ? Dev is actively working on Monero project but this one seems to be a bit neglected.

I am actively working on this more than MRO right now. I will try to push some basic code outlines this week, then hack away until regtest is functional. Stay tuned.

Oh....  thanks for the confirmation.  Saw your handle several times with respect to MRO.