bitcoin fees, where's your limit?

[clickerz]

I've used 0.001 BTC fees when I wanted to send Bitcoin extra fast, I know that it's a bit over the top, but even such a big amount of fees doesn't deter me from sending Bitcoins.

And as previously said in the thread, even if you send with a low amount of fees (say 0.0001 BTC or less), your transaction will still get confirmed.

Yes indeed, and it is common misconception that the higher the amount to be sent, the higher the fees should be.  I think it is 200? or 300 satoshi per byte and from there you man make your computation regardless of amount.

[richardsNY]

I don't send out too many transactions as I am more saving up everything. But when I do I mostly stick to around 0.0003-0.0005 BTC in fees depending on the priority. I think that's the real max I would pay for a normal transaction that I don't mind waiting some time for. If it has a top urgent priority, then I would probably double the fees.

[Mastsetad]

I don't do many transactions anyway as i don't do any shopping or some other activities online except sending some of my bitcoins to an exchange every month for exchanging them to fiat for which i just pay the minimum required fees and never had a problem with that.

[Bitcoinsummoner]

I always send my coins with the smallest fee possible. If it were possible, i would send them without any fee.

If this fee thing increases a lot in time, i will definitely dump my position on bitcoin and gtfo. Because it won't make sense to use it anymore.

Really you would dump bitcoin because of the fees?
I will keep using it.Just alone because of the potential of future growth it is having.
As long as the fees is cheaper than the all the other traditional one I will be happy!
If I send coins worth $10k for a fee of bucks there is no reason in my opinion to complain about.
Bitcoin might evolve to a network for big transactions who knows!And small payments will happen on higher layers or maybe sidechains.

It is always a question for what bitcoin are used.
When they are considered to be an investment, the fee usually does not matter. One time bought, one time sold after a long time. That's it.
But when people actually want to use bitcoin as a payment system, the fee will matter a lot.
I personally would not buy something worth 15$ if I had to put one dollar at the top of it just to make the transaction.
Hopefully we will never see that developement.

I made transaction yesterday and i think the fee's are relaying in the transaction size i paid $1.01 usd for 0.019 transaction and the transaction size is 1110kb . this is my first time that i pay a large amount of unlike before that i am paying minimum of $0.10 cents my maximum if i really want to increase the priority and speed i am paying almost 0.30 cents..
I send and try manual fee with 10k sat for 0.001 btc 2 days ago and experience of delay i think it takes 2-4 hours before i receive it and notice my electrum has icon in one transaction the sign of caution and said that i paying small fee or lower fee.

[Shiroslullaby]

I personally would not buy something worth 15$ if I had to put one dollar at the top of it just to make the transaction.

A 6% transaction fee (sadly) wouldn't be much higher than a lot of financial payment services.
Hell, people take out payday loans that charge 200-300% interest and are borderline illegal. (Soon to be illegal in California.)

[European Central Bank]

A 6% transaction fee (sadly) wouldn't be much higher than a lot of financial payment services.
Hell, people take out payday loans that charge 200-300% interest and are borderline illegal. (Soon to be illegal in California.)

he's talking about buying something. who the hell would pay 6% for the honor of paying for some trinket? for someone who doesn't have bitcoin already the usual expense or premium in buying it makes it pointless enough for commerce. throw in a huge fee and it's even more of a turn off.

it would cost a big fat zero when you use those dirty cards. and in europe card fees are very low for merchants so whatever margin is on top will be small.

[mindrust]

I always send my coins with the smallest fee possible. If it were possible, i would send them without any fee.

If this fee thing increases a lot in time, i will definitely dump my position on bitcoin and gtfo. Because it won't make sense to use it anymore.

Really you would dump bitcoin because of the fees?
I will keep using it.Just alone because of the potential of future growth it is having.
As long as the fees is cheaper than the all the other traditional one I will be happy!
If I send coins worth $10k for a fee of bucks there is no reason in my opinion to complain about.
Bitcoin might evolve to a network for big transactions who knows!And small payments will happen on higher layers or maybe sidechains.

You should understand, there isn't an end of this. It will rise and rise, the network always will be busy and flooded and they will use this as an excuse for high fees. 1-5 bucks no big deal for now but when it becomes 10-30$, that will be a deal breaker for many of us.

[European Central Bank]

You should understand, there isn't an end of this. It will rise and rise, the network always will be busy and flooded and they will use this as an excuse for high fees. 1-5 bucks no big deal for now but when it becomes 10-30$, that will be a deal breaker for many of us.

who would be the users in that scenario? unless it's millionaires moving their gold 2.0 around i don't see where the willingness would come from to swallow that expense. and gold 2.0 requires normal people too, none of whom are gonna be very interested at that level of expense.

[Hugroll]

My limit of fees is usually about 10 cents max per transaction. but usually i just include around 0.00015 in fees per transaction and this lets my transaction be confirmed in about an hour which works fine for me.

[Capradina]

My limit of fees is usually about 10 cents max per transaction. but usually i just include around 0.00015 in fees per transaction and this lets my transaction be confirmed in about an hour which works fine for me.

Yeah, it does something right. But the cost usually depends on how big the bytes of the transaction we do, if we do great bytes then the cost for pertransaksi is very large. But it's all just a few small and will not make your transaction is unconfirmed until a couple of days. so it depends how byte transaction we do, if we are obedient then everything will go well

[franky1]

what if i told you:

there was code that stopped people writing messages into the blockchain to help make blocks only contain lean transaction data.
there was code that stopped people respending funds for 1-6 confirms to stop spamming the blockchain with the same funds over and over.
there was code that allowed millions of people to transact ONCHAIN without bottlenecking the network because there were no bottlenecks..
there was code that allowed the ONCHAIN  possible bottlenecking to open wider at a healthy and natural rate over time.
there was a balance that as unbottlenecked demand increases, pushes the bitcoin valuation up so that pools get more fiat for their blockreward.. so that fee's remain just an insignificant 'bonus' for all of the next 120 years

in short
what if code solved all the things that 'fee's were introduced to prevent' so that over 120 years (not days or weeks) the fee did not have
to rise sharply.

now with that in mind.
what would you consider as a happy worldwide no barrier of entry acceptable fee price?

[zahra4577]

If the fee crosses over %5,I am going to quit using bitcoin for most of my transactions.It is also the fee one has to pay to PayPal so there is no point in paying more though in bitcoin it is much faster but the recipient has to wait not me

[alexsandria]

as the fees have been marching ever upwards, have you found yourself postponing or putting off transactions completely?

i have a balance with a bunch of inputs that got a little out of control so i've given up thinking of buying anything and am waiting for a reason to swallow the fees. guess my limit's already been reached.

would there be a point where you stopped buying things with bitcoin or would you do it for ideological reasons or because you're already sitting on a huge gain?

i could live with high fees if i felt bitcoin was showing strong signs of being gold 2.0, i'd park them and wait, but i think the market's just the same old bunch of people with no real signs of that on the horizon.

i think many massively overestimate the appetite the majority of users have for the expense and may end up a little surprised when many of them walk away, and even more who were considering it never dip a toe in.

is this a blip while we wait for a second layer, a new reality that most will be ok with or hubris that's gonna fatally bite some asses?

Fees are reasonable. They fee the transaction as for their site get some profit like taxes. In other word, it replaces the government or bank taxes. Without fee in transactions, then there would be no confirmations to make. I advice, in making transaction, choose some sites that requiring the lowest minimum fee offer. You can google or look for the forum to seek for that site.

[prabowo96]

Bitcoin was created to avoid bank taxes and stuffs like that and now we can see a scenario in the future where the fees value can be a problem. That's ironic.


I don't know about the limit, maybe it will be a common sense, people will stop to make transactions if the price goes too high so in that way everything will go be more cheap.

[clickerz]

Bitcoin was created to avoid bank taxes and stuffs like that and now we can see a scenario in the future where the fees value can be a problem. That's ironic.


I don't know about the limit, maybe it will be a common sense, people will stop to make transactions if the price goes too high so in that way everything will go be more cheap.

I agree and bitcoin's decentralization feature attracted online sellers for that idea and for security too. If the fees are higher,it became the same as other sites which charges higher fees. I hope this is not the scenario in the future.As of now,fees is still cheaper.

[Adbitco]

Honestly the fee should in now way be higher than most of payment processors like paypal, skrill etc charge and the miners should themselves not allow it become an issue. They should charge nominal fee and confirm the transactions quickly. Fees shouldn't stop people from frequently using bitcoin and it shouldn't be a hurdle in the way of new people embracing this digital currency. I don't suggest the percentage but sometimes I also avoid using bitcoins frequently because of the fee

[Killerpotleaf]

(Fee: $ 36.72 - Size: 1995 bytes) 2016-11-26 04:03:49

https://blockchain.info/address/1KE77nAehc8G7a4HAUUsVxXRYSiK9qAuW4

did someone pay 37$ fee to move 7$ worth of coins off his wallet?

[Zadicar]

Bitcoin was created to avoid bank taxes and stuffs like that and now we can see a scenario in the future where the fees value can be a problem. That's ironic.


I don't know about the limit, maybe it will be a common sense, people will stop to make transactions if the price goes too high so in that way everything will go be more cheap.

I agree and bitcoin's decentralization feature attracted online sellers for that idea and for security too. If the fees are higher,it became the same as other sites which charges higher fees. I hope this is not the scenario in the future.As of now,fees is still cheaper.

Your hopes will be broken for sure because transaction fees would surely rise up on the long run because of bitcoins adoption so this means miners will surely put up some price on every transaction because they are making money with it. At first this is why i love bitcoin because of its low fees but considering they will increase i dont think it will hurt because its only a small amounts.

[crwth]

Recently, I've transacted an amount which I gave lower transaction fee and it was only confirmed yesterday. My transaction was 5 days ago. So what i'm trying to say is i'm fine with it having lower fees and be confirmed after a few days as long as it's not in a rush. Of course there are some cases that needs to be confirmed ASAP, better pay higher fees.

PS. Compared to the transaction fees through banks or money sending businesses, I would still prefer the bitcoin fees.

[buwaytress]

well, i've always felt the coffee thing is a kind of silly example. even if fees were super low, confirmations take time and who the hell needs a censorless way of paying for coffee?

commerce on the internet is a different matter. anyone should be able to transact where and when they want without needing approval and bitcoin is the perfect fit. if the ability for modestly valued transactions is priced out then the future potential has just stepped down several notches.

forget coffee.. think internationally!!

$2 is a weeks wage in some countries
suggesting 10cents (2 hours labour) is acceptable and a weeks wage is "spam" is the mindset of close minded people.

bitcoin should not be limited to developed countries, but open to any country. where CODE is used to limit spam. not economics
only the bank loving devs believe that economics is the answer. which makes me lose faith in those devs as coders because they are ignoring CODE as the answer to 'spam'

as for anyone thinking segwit is going to offer big discounts your wrong. the fee war over the last 11 months has made the average tx high, that segwits discount is just backdating prices back to last year..
its like going to walmart and seeing the price of some produce double in price just so they can stick a 50% off price ticket on afterwards, even if the discount is the same as before the proposal.

as for anyone thinking LN is going to offer big discounts its not (explained here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1686040.msg16925401#msg16925401)

basically proposing $4 (0.0006) PRE-PAY fee just to use it. and it only works out cheap if you do thousands of tx's in the 10day lockin the scenario suggest..
the scenario and price examples are wrote by those coding LN..

the scenario also says
use it only once or twice, your penalised. try to close the channel early to not be penalized, guess what your penalized.

again LN is NOT USING CODE to mitigate error, blackmail or DDoS risks.. it uses economics.. completely ridiculous!!
but hey. when you see how the devs coding these 'features' are paid its becomes obvious why they prefer economics rather than logic/code

Very good points brought up and I have always completely been on board by attempting to put a closer margin on true value as opposed to cost.

In east africa and India for example, people can still send amounts as small as 5 cents instantly to each other for no fees using sms systems. compare that to sending the equivalent 13000 satoshi for a fee that takes at least minutes to confirm.

And if a vendor were to receive hundreds of 10k satoshi inputs... how is he ever going to offload it with potentially crippling fees?

I always with the exception of 2 transactions use the smallest fee allowed by my wallet (electrum) and now am moving my dust to site wallets that have no fee. It really makes a difference I find.