Bitcoin Forum
December 02, 2022, 07:17:34 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 23.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Warning: One or more bitcointalk.org users have reported that they strongly believe that the creator of this topic is a scammer. (Login to see the detailed trust ratings.) While the bitcointalk.org administration does not verify such claims, you should proceed with extreme caution.
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: ALT coins and difficulty....  (Read 1549 times)
meebs (OP)
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 616
Merit: 500



View Profile
April 07, 2013, 03:39:20 AM
 #1

So, I was thinking and came up with an idea.. I wonder if it is even remotely possible for a current or new alt-coin to implement.


FRC and TRC have both now been plagued by coin hoppers.. people shooting the difficulty to a very unprofitable level and then dumping for the next best thing.. leaving difficulty way high and the legitimate users of the coin in a rough spot.

Is it possible to have some kind of 'difficulty decay' system outside of the typical readjusts?

For example: TRC is now 55% as profitable as BTC to mine.. if there was a way for the network to see "oh gee, for the past 5 hours we have been at a 5x block time cycle, lets go ahead and start dumping down the difficulty to alleviate this issue"

Or maybe if other coins just adopted the PPC/NVC method of constant gradual adjustment., you wouldnt get this absurd jumps that screw everything up.

What are your thoughts?

              ▄▄▄█████████████▄▄▄
           ▄████████▀▀▀▀▀▀▀████████▄
        ▄██████▀▀             ▀▀██████▄
      ▄█████▀▀                    ▀▀█████▄
     █████▀                          ▀█████
    ████▀          ▄▄███████▄▄         ▀████
   ████▌        ▄██▀▀▀    ▀▀▀██▄        ▐████
  ████▌       ▄██▀            ▀██▄       ▐████
 ▐████       ██▀   ▄▄█▀▀▀█▄▄    ▀██       ████▌
 ████▌      ▐█▌   █▀  ▄▄   ▀▀             ▐████
▐████       ██  █▌  █▌ █████████████      ████▌
▐████       ██  ▐█  ▐█                     ████▌
▐████       ██  █▌  █▌ █████████████      ████▌
 ████▌      ▐█▌   █▄  ▀▀   ▄▄    ██▀      ▐████
 ▐████       ██▄   ▀▀█▄▄▄█▀▀    ██▌       ████▌
  █████       ▀██▄            ▄██▀       █████
   █████        ▀██▄▄▄    ▄▄▄██▀        █████
    █████          ▀▀███████▀▀         █████
     █████▄                          ▄█████
      ▀█████▄▄                    ▄▄█████▀
        ▀██████▄▄             ▄▄██████▀
           ▀████████▄▄▄▄▄▄▄████████▀
              ▀▀▀█████████████▀▀▀
Global Cryptocurrency
          ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

  DECENTRALISING PRODUCTION, LOGISTICS AND PAYMENT 
                ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬   3D SERVICE      32 BAY     GCC WEBWALLET
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬

1669965454
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1669965454

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1669965454
Reply with quote  #2

1669965454
Report to moderator
1669965454
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1669965454

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1669965454
Reply with quote  #2

1669965454
Report to moderator
"I'm sure that in 20 years there will either be very large transaction volume or no volume." -- Satoshi
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
Impaler
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 826
Merit: 250

CryptoTalk.Org - Get Paid for every Post!


View Profile
April 07, 2013, 04:31:39 AM
 #2

FRC developers are indeed looking into improving the responsiveness of difficulty adjustments.

 
                                . ██████████.
                              .████████████████.
                           .██████████████████████.
                        -█████████████████████████████
                     .██████████████████████████████████.
                  -█████████████████████████████████████████
               -███████████████████████████████████████████████
           .-█████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
        .████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
       .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       ..████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████..
       .   .██████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
       .      .████████████████████████████████████████████████.

       .       .██████████████████████████████████████████████
       .    ██████████████████████████████████████████████████████
       .█████████████████████████████████████████████████████████████.
        .███████████████████████████████████████████████████████████
           .█████████████████████████████████████████████████████
              .████████████████████████████████████████████████
                   ████████████████████████████████████████
                      ██████████████████████████████████
                          ██████████████████████████
                             ████████████████████
                               ████████████████
                                   █████████
CryptoTalk.org| 
MAKE POSTS AND EARN BTC!
🏆
Dabs
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3360
Merit: 1905


The Concierge of Crypto


View Profile
April 07, 2013, 06:37:49 AM
 #3

If difficulty goes back down quickly, you'd have other coin hoppers with ASICs jumping in. Then difficulty would rise again.

qxzn
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 609
Merit: 505



View Profile
April 07, 2013, 07:08:14 AM
 #4

So, I was thinking and came up with an idea.. I wonder if it is even remotely possible for a current or new alt-coin to implement.


FRC and TRC have both now been plagued by coin hoppers.. people shooting the difficulty to a very unprofitable level and then dumping for the next best thing.. leaving difficulty way high and the legitimate users of the coin in a rough spot.

Is it possible to have some kind of 'difficulty decay' system outside of the typical readjusts?

For example: TRC is now 55% as profitable as BTC to mine.. if there was a way for the network to see "oh gee, for the past 5 hours we have been at a 5x block time cycle, lets go ahead and start dumping down the difficulty to alleviate this issue"

Or maybe if other coins just adopted the PPC/NVC method of constant gradual adjustment., you wouldnt get this absurd jumps that screw everything up.

What are your thoughts?

Is this potentially an issue with Bitcoin as well? E.g., there's an earthquake and 50% of the ASIC machines around the world are damaged beyond repair. How f'd is bitcoin?
Insu Dra
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 182
Merit: 100



View Profile
April 07, 2013, 07:12:01 AM
 #5

* Insu Dra runs off with some gassoil in search of asicminer's farm  Grin

"drugs, guns, and gambling for anyone and everyone!"
dust
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 840
Merit: 1000



View Profile WWW
April 07, 2013, 07:12:55 AM
 #6

The bitcoin testnet has a difficulty adjustment rule related to what you are describing.

Quote
Minimum difficulty of 1.0 on testnet is equal to difficulty of 0.5 on mainnet. This means that the mainnet-equivalent of any testnet difficulty is half the testnet difficulty. In addition if no block has been found in 20 minutes, the difficulty automatically resets back to the minimum.

Reseting back to the minimum would be too extreme, but a moderate adjustment down after a period of slow blocks could work.

Cryptocoin Mining Info | OTC | PGP | Twitter | freenode: dust-otc | BTC: 1F6fV4U2xnpAuKtmQD6BWpK3EuRosKzF8U
odolvlobo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 3794
Merit: 2724



View Profile
April 08, 2013, 06:47:44 AM
 #7

Is this potentially an issue with Bitcoin as well? E.g., there's an earthquake and 50% of the ASIC machines around the world are damaged beyond repair. How f'd is bitcoin?

I think bitcoin will be fine, but the half of the world destroyed by your "earthquake" would be f'd.

Buy stuff on Amazon with BTC or convert Amazon points to BTC here: Purse.io
Join an anti-signature campaign: Click ignore on the members of signature campaigns.
PGP Fingerprint: 6B6BC26599EC24EF7E29A405EAF050539D0B2925 Signing address: 13GAVJo8YaAuenj6keiEykwxWUZ7jMoSLt
Ryu.Hayabusa
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 84
Merit: 10


View Profile
April 08, 2013, 06:53:35 AM
 #8

Maybe a difficulty could be based on the last N blocks found in T time?  Just a thought.

If I was able to help you out, please consider donating.  Any amount is greatly appreciated! Smiley         
LTC LYxUfCXVHVkBv2S8H21NK6UnFnXmNaVqv6   XRP rHAYiZ3f7QGLa4qsVPjLsVEmwUQ9nSMq86
crazy_rabbit
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1204
Merit: 1001


RUM AND CARROTS: A PIRATE LIFE FOR ME


View Profile
April 08, 2013, 07:33:32 AM
 #9

Is this potentially an issue with Bitcoin as well? E.g., there's an earthquake and 50% of the ASIC machines around the world are damaged beyond repair. How f'd is bitcoin?

I think bitcoin will be fine, but the half of the world destroyed by your "earthquake" would be f'd.

I proposed a more reasonable situation: Avalon Asics have a manufacturing flaw that they don't know about, but breaks the system after x number of hours. That's far more reasonable.

more or less retired.
qxzn
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 609
Merit: 505



View Profile
April 09, 2013, 08:11:24 AM
 #10

Is this potentially an issue with Bitcoin as well? E.g., there's an earthquake and 50% of the ASIC machines around the world are damaged beyond repair. How f'd is bitcoin?

I think bitcoin will be fine, but the half of the world destroyed by your "earthquake" would be f'd.

I proposed a more reasonable situation: Avalon Asics have a manufacturing flaw that they don't know about, but breaks the system after x number of hours. That's far more reasonable.

True, but they still wouldn't go down all at once, because their age-since-manufacture is staggered. For it to be really catastrophic, the bug would have to be based on the date or something like that. Hard for me to imagine such a bug.
crazy_rabbit
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1204
Merit: 1001


RUM AND CARROTS: A PIRATE LIFE FOR ME


View Profile
April 09, 2013, 02:04:53 PM
 #11

Is this potentially an issue with Bitcoin as well? E.g., there's an earthquake and 50% of the ASIC machines around the world are damaged beyond repair. How f'd is bitcoin?

I think bitcoin will be fine, but the half of the world destroyed by your "earthquake" would be f'd.

I proposed a more reasonable situation: Avalon Asics have a manufacturing flaw that they don't know about, but breaks the system after x number of hours. That's far more reasonable.

True, but they still wouldn't go down all at once, because their age-since-manufacture is staggered. For it to be really catastrophic, the bug would have to be based on the date or something like that. Hard for me to imagine such a bug.

True, but their age-since-manufacture isn't staggered very much. And when you average the some were built a couple days before others and some were received in the mail a few days before others, it's not such a large difference. We also know that the usage on the machines will pretty much be identical: IE: people who buy avalons will assuredly all be running them 24/7. So although failure would be staggered, it could potentially happen all within a small time frame.

Indeed it could be someone else's ASIC hash farm (Avalon did say their goal was to have a ASIC farm, not sell machines to people) that gets flooded or raided, or whatnot.

more or less retired.
pyra-proxy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 490
Merit: 500



View Profile
April 09, 2013, 02:43:58 PM
 #12

I still think an adjustment every block based on a rolling average block discovery time of the last X blocks where X is say some number of hours or maybe a days worth of blocks.

I think what you would see is that when hoppers jumped on difficulty would rise pretty aggressively and when they top out difficulty and blocks slowed, difficulty would drop quickly as well for network to resume normal operations.  I think this would likely discourage hopping because the ramp up of difficulty would be more rapid according to real time than current difficulty adjustment schemes and network will resume normal behavior quicker, so the hash rate pump-n-dumps will be less rewarding and less impacting overall.... well that is the theory at least....

Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!