Bitcoin Forum
December 10, 2019, 05:33:28 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 0.19.0.1 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
Author Topic: Hyper Inflation, Round 2?  (Read 1654 times)
morphKET
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 134
Merit: 100


We Are All One


View Profile WWW
April 08, 2013, 05:19:37 AM
 #21

$1,000 by the end of 2013

$100,000 by the end of 2014

 Grin

I think you are right, but just not timing wise. I'd say that within the next coming weeks we will hit those prices [1,000/BTC, 100,000BTC] as everything begins to destabilize and more scandals and shenanigans begin to pour out like made from the financial/bankster system. BTC right now is challenging the USD head on and EVERYTHING is being done (don't need to guess by who) to stop it and fight it. Yes, as the post above stated, this is inflation finally leaking through BTC and will of course leak through even more fervently going forward, which will lead to hyper inflation. Just like today the news of Portugal and Italy hit the waves which has sent ripples through the global economy, [hence todays price spike]. With BTC continuing this trend, gold and silver WILL eventually break from the manipulation and skyrocket as well.

(Grabs a nice white tea and book) Going to sit back and enjoy the show as things are about to get really interesting.

✰ PrimeDice.com | Instant Bitcoin Gambling | Free BTC Faucet | ( 1% edge) *Thread*
If you like my stories, toss a Satoshi or two:
1CHmp1TGSyus29K76S7X6AMtVUejj7BCcj
1575956008
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1575956008

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1575956008
Reply with quote  #2

1575956008
Report to moderator
1575956008
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1575956008

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1575956008
Reply with quote  #2

1575956008
Report to moderator
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
1575956008
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1575956008

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1575956008
Reply with quote  #2

1575956008
Report to moderator
1575956008
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1575956008

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1575956008
Reply with quote  #2

1575956008
Report to moderator
baracuda
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 43
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 08, 2013, 06:02:19 AM
 #22

Interesting. I think I agree that this isn't "hyper-inflation" but rather "hyper-deflation" which is very interesting. Has the USD or other currencies gone through periods of hyper-deflation? What typically happens to that currency after that?

The reason I believe it is not inflation, is because inflation means the value of the currency is losing it's buying power, but BTC is gaining buying power right now.

So, is this a "bubble" then? Similar to the stock exchange crashes? My current opinion is that it seems like it will continue to hold strong and increase. But, if it DOES start sliding, I think there's a potential for it to tank hard.
Behemot
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 152
Merit: 100



View Profile WWW
April 08, 2013, 06:49:10 AM
 #23


Well it's my opinion after all. I still think you are missing some - the ASICs will icnrease net hashing power maybe even more than 100times (well, if BFL will ever ship their 20000 chips). Thats just way too much to be only minor increase for a while, it's so huge icnrease that many more coins will appear. Remember that most of existing bitcoins are just being stored in wallets, some of them maybe even forget. And I don't think really everybody in there knows about ASICs (that they will come and change the game, and when it happenes).

baracuda
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 43
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 08, 2013, 12:28:39 PM
 #24

I've been reading these threads and I really don't know what to think.

On the one hand, BitCoin seems like it has a lot of momentum. There's a lot of invested value, and that's all money really is -- perceived value. If you think it's worth something, then it is. If you're willing to trade something for it, then it's worth that. People have put a lot of other currencies into this, so I have some faith that it will maintain.

But, then the question is, what's the point? Let's say I'm willing to build a website for you for 20 BTC. I've seen this argument around, but how do I then use that BTC to pay my rent, electric bill, and groceries. I'd have to cash out. If that's the case, why not just bill with the local currency anyways? (If this has been hashed out with a reasonable answer in other or blogs, share a link and I'll be sure to read.)
alexh
Member
**
Offline Offline

Activity: 168
Merit: 10



View Profile
April 08, 2013, 12:33:18 PM
 #25

Quote
But, then the question is, what's the point? Let's say I'm willing to build a website for you for 20 BTC. I've seen this argument around, but how do I then use that BTC to pay my rent, electric bill, and groceries. I'd have to cash out. If that's the case, why not just bill with the local currency anyways? (If this has been hashed out with a reasonable answer in other or blogs, share a link and I'll be sure to read.)

Cause Bitcoin is independent from any banks. Just look up what happened in Cyprus. People got their money in the bank seized by the government und just taken away because their bankers/government fucked up.
nobbynobbynoob
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 784
Merit: 1000


Annuit cœptis humanae libertas


View Profile WWW
April 08, 2013, 12:44:48 PM
 #26

Interesting. I think I agree that this isn't "hyper-inflation" but rather "hyper-deflation" which is very interesting. Has the USD or other currencies gone through periods of hyper-deflation? What typically happens to that currency after that?

1931-33

After that, Big Gov intervenes and gets Big Bank to print $$$. MGM propaganda film promotes inflation as a great savior.

Earn Free Bitcoins!   Earn bitcoin via BitcoinGet
BTC tip: 1PKkvuwC24Vqjv9odigXs1QVzE66jEJqmb (if <200 µBTC, please donate to charity)
LTC tip: LRqXaNdF79QHvhPpS5AZdEJZnLiNnAkJvq (if <Ł0,05, please donate to charity)
VishwaJay
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 56
Merit: 0



View Profile
April 08, 2013, 12:53:05 PM
 #27

One thing that the stock markets have is an option called a "short" which is essentially an investment in the idea that the market will drop. It's a pressure gasket that prevents an all-out crash of the kind seen in 1929, but it doesn't prevent them altogether. I think the exchanges would be wise to develop a "short" option to keep the economics more stable and regularize the market.

I'm also seeing a lot of hype in the financial sectors about bitcoins, which are being seen as something of a futures investment for currency exchange investors. In addition, I'm seeing bitcoins on eBay for twice their market value at basically any of the exchanges. People are being stupid and paying anything they can to "buy in" to the investment, the same way they did in the 90's with tech stocks.

In the 90's it took about 4 years for the bubble to burst. Using an approximation of Moore's Law, this bubble should burst by the end of 2013, or at least stabilize somewhat. I doubt highly that it will even hit the USD$10 000 mark, but I've been wrong before.... I think that the investors will continue to buy until it creates an unstable mass, and then a rapid sell-off will create a drop. So long as one uBitcoin (micro-bitcoin) remains in the range of under USD$10 or so, there's no real danger of the currency destabilizing that much.

What goes up must come down... but in the investment world, what goes down must also come up. The problem is that people aren't really aware of what they're buying into, they're just reacting to the hype of what someone else told them. I've been watching for a year and am finally getting in... but that doesn't mean I'm all-in with everything I own. It means I'm buying a reasonable investment and sitting on it until I see the level I think it will top out at. At that point, I'll sell.

Done. Out. Hasta.

Well, until I get that awesome mining rig shipped to me sometime in May or later (if it's before October, I'll be ecstatic).
DannyHamilton
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2282
Merit: 1583



View Profile
April 08, 2013, 02:49:00 PM
 #28

- snip -
Let's say I'm willing to build a website for you for 20 BTC. I've seen this argument around, but how do I then use that BTC to pay my rent, electric bill, and groceries. I'd have to cash out. If that's the case, why not just bill with the local currency anyways? (If this has been hashed out with a reasonable answer in other or blogs, share a link and I'll be sure to read.)

Imagine I'm in Europe and you are in the U.S.

Let's say I'm willing to build a website for you for 2000 USD. I've seen this argument around, but how do I then use those USD to pay my rent, electric bill, and groceries. I'd have to cash out to EUR. If that's the case, why not just bill with my local EUR currency anyways? (If this has been hashed out with a reasonable answer in other or blogs, share a link and I'll be sure to read.)

Bitcoin is a currency.  People will accept a payment in whatever currency makes sense for the transaction they are making and will then exchange that currency for their local currency as needed.  If you need/want the work, and the employer wants to pay in BTC, then you accept bitcoin.

Merchants and service providers have a financial incentive to accept bitcoin as a form of payment.  There is already a housing management company in Tennessee that accepts rent payments in bitcoin.  So for people who live in apartments managed by that company, that answers your question about how to use those BTC to pay rent.  Bitcoin is still in its infancy, it will take some time for people to adopt it.  You can get started earning/acquiring bitcoin now and be ahead of the curve, or you can wait to see how it all plays out and get started earning/acquiring bitcoin after all your local merchants and service providers (rent, groceries, electricity, etc) start accepting it.  That choice is up to you.

baracuda
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 43
Merit: 0


View Profile
April 09, 2013, 06:45:53 AM
 #29

alexh, nobbynobbynoob, VishwaJay, DannyHamilton thanks guys. Good insight.

Danny makes a good point about why ***I*** should accept BitCoin. It would expand my market to build a website for someone who might have bitcoin, but isn't setup with USD or Paypal or a Credit Card. (The three easy things I currently accept.)

I think that logic should carry over to other things, but my mind is being slow to accept that. Hah, thanks guys for the thoughts.
DannyHamilton
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2282
Merit: 1583



View Profile
April 09, 2013, 08:16:33 AM
 #30

alexh, nobbynobbynoob, VishwaJay, DannyHamilton thanks guys. Good insight.

Danny makes a good point about why ***I*** should accept BitCoin. It would expand my market to build a website for someone who might have bitcoin, but isn't setup with USD or Paypal or a Credit Card. (The three easy things I currently accept.)

I think that logic should carry over to other things, but my mind is being slow to accept that. Hah, thanks guys for the thoughts.

As a currency there is certainly an incentive to expand your market.  As a payment vehicle, there is even more incentive for you to accept bitcoin.

What sort of fees to you pay to accepts credit card and paypal?  How do you receive USD when it is not paid with paypal or credit card?  Do you ever have any concern about chargebacks with paypal and credit card?  How long does it take from time of payment until the payment is cleared at your bank and you can spend it on rent, groceries, gasoline, etc? What sort of contracts are you bound into to accept paypal and credit card?

Bitcoin is generally better than traditional forms of electronic payment regarding most all those questions.

morphKET
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 134
Merit: 100


We Are All One


View Profile WWW
April 10, 2013, 07:47:50 PM
 #31

this is what i am seeing this (or at least the potential direction of BTC). It will gain some sort real physical value by being back with gold or silver. far-fetched? maybe. but currency is what is backed by faith and something physical. the USD is only floating on faith (in the view of the public) but behind the scenes every business/country(that know better) jumping off the sinking US-tanic is swimming away towards some physical shore (assets). just a matter of time. paper currencies only last about a good 70 years or so, and ours (USD) has lasted for around 100 (which ironically this year marks the anniversiry of the FED creation) years only due to being backed by the biggest and baddest mega police and the petro-oil backed paper. 2013 will be marked as the year the paper currencies fall and new ones rise. just my two bit-cents :^)

✰ PrimeDice.com | Instant Bitcoin Gambling | Free BTC Faucet | ( 1% edge) *Thread*
If you like my stories, toss a Satoshi or two:
1CHmp1TGSyus29K76S7X6AMtVUejj7BCcj
BitcoinMillionaire
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Activity: 168
Merit: 100


Bling Bling


View Profile
April 10, 2013, 08:01:43 PM
 #32

i sure hope it keeps rising considering I have real money invested in this currency. Some people think it will keep rising, others think it will definitely crash soon.

Real Money...

You mean US dollars I'm guessing.

I find it funny that you differentiate between "real money" (USD) and the bitcoin...

Does anyone else see the humour here?

▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
PRIMEDICE
The Premier Bitcoin Gambling Experience @PrimeDice
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
odolvlobo
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 2702
Merit: 1442



View Profile
April 10, 2013, 09:46:29 PM
 #33

i sure hope it keeps rising considering I have real money invested in this currency. Some people think it will keep rising, others think it will definitely crash soon.

Real Money...

You mean US dollars I'm guessing.

I find it funny that you differentiate between "real money" (USD) and the bitcoin...

Does anyone else see the humour here?

No humor, just ignorance. People that use the term "real money" to mean some form of fiat money make me sad.

Buy stuff on Amazon at a discount with bitcoins or convert Amazon points to bitcoins: Purse.io
Join an anti-signature campaign: Click ignore on the members of signature campaigns.
Melonhead
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 15
Merit: 0



View Profile
April 18, 2013, 03:57:49 AM
Last edit: April 18, 2013, 01:50:04 PM by Melonhead
 #34

In case somebody hasn't realized it yet, the OP is using the term "hyper-inflation" incorrectly. "Inflation" is either rising prices of goods or an increasing money supply, depending on the context. "Hyper-inflation" is an extreme case of inflation, and generally occurs when people spend money as soon as they get it because its value is dropping so quickly.

The OP is referring to the dramatic rise in price of BTC, which is none of those.

You are right. Context is everything. OP is definitely wrong in his use of the word inflation. Proper usage of inflation refers to monetary inflation - more specifically; the increase of the money supply. With modern fiat currencies controlled by central banks, this is easily accomplished by simply "printing money". The result of inflation is an increase in the price (the money cost) of goods and services and the decrease in the price of money (you will be required to supply fewer real goods and services to "buy" a dollar - i.e. the dollar buys less). This is because more money is chasing fewer goods. If you magically doubled the amount of money in circulation (with everyone instantly having twice what they had just a moment ago), very quickly you would see prices for everything basically double. No new wealth is created. All that happened was a massive trauma to the economy as everybody scrambles to adjust to the sudden halving of the value of the dollar.

In reality, central banks inflate much more slowly, but it is not a natural (or even desired) phenomenon. Let's say it's 2-3 percent per year for decades on end (as it basically has been). People get used to it and plan their lives around that rate. However, if the rate changes (specifically, increases) over time, then it's harder to plan for the future. People are more likely to spend now rather than save for spending later simply because their saved money will be worth less (and unpredictably so) in the future. This has numerous consequences. One of them is society's capital stock starts to dissipate (gets eaten away by present consumption). We become a consumerist society with less and less investment in the future. Eventually, we collapse as we have no more capital for long term projects.

Hyper-inflation is the doubling of the money supply on a yearly, monthly or even weekly basis. Imagine prices of groceries doubling every week (or worse). In Germany in 1923 wives would wait outside their husbands' places of employment on pay day. As soon as the paychecks were handed out, the wives would take them and run to the bank, get cash and then run to the market to buy food because it would be significantly more expensive the next day. In a hyper-inflationary economy, people spend money quickly (i.e. don't want to hold cash) because prices are rising. Not the other way around. Spending doesn't cause hyper-inflation. The government printing press causes hyper-inflation. And hyper-inflation causes rapidly rising prices of goods and services.

As for Bitcoin, it can never hyper-inflate because of the very nature of its mining process. While it will continue to technically "inflate" (increase in supply), that inflation is slow (and slowing), well understood, and ultimately limited. This allows for the possibility of rational assessment of its value, and will not (in and of itself) incite people into panic buying or selling. The value of Bitcoin must properly be measured by what goods and services it can buy (and has bought historically) over a wide range of products. Unfortunately we don't have a lot of historical data on what people are buying with Bitcoin (so we don't know its true value). Until we do, and as long as we are measuring Bitcoin against the dollar (a currency that itself is susceptible to state tampering and hyperinflation), we will see wild fluctuations in Bitcoin's "value". But such rises and falls do not constitute deflation or inflation. Such rises and falls are just speculation birthing pains associated with an unknown, unproven commodity.

Yes, Bitcoin is a commodity. Just like gold. So is all money. But not all money is created equal. The demand (and thus the value of any money) is based on its usefulness as a relatively stable lubricant for commerce (and its value can change over time just like any other commodity). The transparent, effortless ability to convert any good or service into any other good or service (even across spans of time - think futures contract) is what makes a money good. Money is barter butter. Good money allows barter of anything to anything across time and space with little or no loss of economic energy (low "economic friction"). Good money does not inflate much (the less the better). Zero inflation is best (as Bitcoin will eventually be). Good money is infinitely divisible, easily transportable, relatively rare, non-perishable, and accepted almost everywhere. Gold fulfilled all of these requirements. Bitcoin isn't quite there yet (it's lacking in the transportability and acceptance categories). The other area of challenge for Bitcoin is the so-called legal tender laws. If governments feel threatened by Bitcoin, they will fight it. This may be a big roadblock in the future.

Gold enabled the industrial age to flourish world-wide. It was eventually "stolen" from us and replaced with government paper. Read Murray Rothbard's "What has Government Done to Our Money" for a description of how we lost the use of gold. Also, read Leonard Read's "I, pencil" to understand the global economy. Now, Bitcoin threatens to become the new digital gold. We just need some entrepreneurs to come up with ways to make Bitcoin very transportable and the acceptance will (hopefully) follow. To paraphrase Jeff Goldblum in Jurassic Park, "The free market finds a way".

Pages: « 1 [2]  All
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Sponsored by , a Bitcoin-accepting VPN.
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!