21 millions bitcoin in question

[topesis]

Any alteration to the 21 million coin will completely destroyed the work of Satoshi, the price and erode the community trust in Bitcoin, it is not compulsory to be involved with Bitcoin, you can use other tokens that are with high inflation,  also the miners have been taken care of with the inclusion of transaction fee

[1713266171]

1713266171

[ashiqdey]

21 million bitcoin have advantages like more price increase and a definite goal to achieve 21 million coins when there will be no limit of coins then there will be no price hike in Future along with its demand.

[Luke2939]

We cannot rule out that possibility. It may happen and bitcoin can fork. Lets call this fork as "Bitcoin Unlimited". When there is more supply price will fall and people will begin to question it and after time "bitcoin unlimited" would loose support and die slowly. I also feel that the real and original bitcoin will keep going and will be supported by the bag holders. They will want to keep the total supply at 21 million to keep the value of bitcoin. I think bitcoin without any forks will live for ages to come.

[piloder]

Hello,

Hard fork will make possible to extend the number of bitcoin in circulation (more than 21 millions).

However, everyone told me that the majority of node runners will not allow this to happen.

There is no need to extend the total supply of bitcoin because 21 million bitcoin could be enough to even handle all financial transaction worldwide as bitcoin can be transfered even to satoshi level so 1 bitcoin will count for 100 million satoshi which can be sent/received.

Miners/node runner will never gonna support any hard fork, HF will just divide the bitcoin community into two half or even more.

[calkob]

Hello,

Hard fork will make possible to extend the number of bitcoin in circulation (more than 21 millions).

However, everyone told me that the majority of node runners will not allow this to happen.

My question is why they will not?

Indeed, this will create more revenu for them, as there will be more bitcoin to mine and not only revenu from transaction fees.

what do you think?

creating more coins would diminish the value of the current coins.  thats the whole point of the 21 million limit.  creating more will never be an option, it would be shot down from day one and never achieve consensus

[Xester]

Hello,

Hard fork will make possible to extend the number of bitcoin in circulation (more than 21 millions).

However, everyone told me that the majority of node runners will not allow this to happen.

My question is why they will not?

Indeed, this will create more revenu for them, as there will be more bitcoin to mine and not only revenu from transaction fees.

what do you think?

creating more coins would diminish the value of the current coins.  thats the whole point of the 21 million limit.  creating more will never be an option, it would be shot down from day one and never achieve consensus

It is indeed true that if the number of bitcoins in circulation will increase the price of bitcoin will potentially decrease. If it decreases in price it will affect many sectors in the bitcoin industry. I am included in the list of the affected person, for me it is a disadvantage, we all long for a price increase and a sudden price deflation will not help but create more trouble.

[yayayo]

To my great surprise, thread starter obviously has never heard about a phenomenon called "inflation". You can increase the number of total Bitcoin and miners may earn more Bitcoin, but the buying power of every single Bitcoin will decrease proportionally to the increase in the number of total Bitcoin. For example every citizen of Zimbabwe was a multi billionaire at the height of hyperinflation a few years ago, however nobody had any reason to be happy about it...

The absolute total limit of 21 million coins is the holy grail of Bitcoin. Changing it would lead to immediate death of the currency, because it is one of the foundations of Bitcoin's value. If that is ever done, Bitcoin would have become a fiat currency. Therefore any attempt in that regard is considered devil worship and will unlikely be approved by miners.

ya.ya.yo!

[ranochigo]

How would more coins benefit us? The point of Bitcoin is to have a fixed capital and not have it changed whenever we want. Having a higher max capital would just lower the value per coin and no one would benefit. The price of Bitcoin is relative to the total number of Bitcoin, just like how gold is precious because of its rarity.

[bitbunnny]

Maybe this is possible but we have to think will this be realy good for Bitcoin? I don't think so, I beleive that the overall amount should stay limited. Inflation is not good for Bitcoin this would lead to the decrease of price, lack of interest for Bitcoin and the end it could fail and be replaced with something else. Not a good scenario.

[Skarner21]

Hello,

Hard fork will make possible to extend the number of bitcoin in circulation (more than 21 millions).

However, everyone told me that the majority of node runners will not allow this to happen.

My question is why they will not?

Indeed, this will create more revenu for them, as there will be more bitcoin to mine and not only revenu from transaction fees.

what do you think?

creating more coins would diminish the value of the current coins.  thats the whole point of the 21 million limit.  creating more will never be an option, it would be shot down from day one and never achieve consensus

It is indeed true that if the number of bitcoins in circulation will increase the price of bitcoin will potentially decrease. If it decreases in price it will affect many sectors in the bitcoin industry. I am included in the list of the affected person, for me it is a disadvantage, we all long for a price increase and a sudden price deflation will not help but create more trouble.

I don't agree that they will increase the number of bitcoin in circulation since we are always depending in the demand and supply so i think it is not good that they modified again the number of bitcoin. .it can affect the market and yeah like other said the price can also affected and it can decrease the value.. Because we are relaying in demand and supply..

[FlamingFingers]

To my great surprise, thread starter obviously has never heard about a phenomenon called "inflation". You can increase the number of total Bitcoin and miners may earn more Bitcoin, but the buying power of every single Bitcoin will decrease proportionally to the increase in the number of total Bitcoin. For example every citizen of Zimbabwe was a multi billionaire at the height of hyperinflation a few years ago, however nobody had any reason to be happy about it...

The absolute total limit of 21 million coins is the holy grail of Bitcoin. Changing it would lead to immediate death of the currency, because it is one of the foundations of Bitcoin's value. If that is ever done, Bitcoin would have become a fiat currency. Therefore any attempt in that regard is considered devil worship and will unlikely be approved by miners.

ya.ya.yo!

Kept reading and couldn't find a better reply than this. It summarizes the whole thing.
ANYONE LOOKING FOR CLEAR ANSWER TO THE OP, CHECK THIS OUT!

[pawel7777]

...
However, everyone told me that the majority of node runners will not allow this to happen.
My question is why they will not?
Indeed, this will create more revenu for them, as there will be more bitcoin to mine and not only revenu from transaction fees.

Nodes don't get any revenue, miners do.

Who is proposing this? I have not seen any serious proposal which proposes any sort of change to the monetary supply (except for BIP 42). Do you have a link to a source?

rusty russel of blockstream LN fame wants to first introduce millisats into LN. and later change bitcoins measure to comply with LN.

Increasing the number of base units by x1000 could have some ugly psychological effect, but in reality it changes nothing, every balance would be multiplied by the same factor and the cap of 21m units called "bitcoin" would still be in place. The only difference from the users' perspective would be more decimal places.
There's nothing controversial about that, and afaik that was suggested from the start if BTC price was to go up to some incredible levels.

[jtipt]

The point of the 21 bitcoin limit is that there will be a limited amount of bitcoin in existence full stop. If we keep continuously adding, then the currency will become like fiat, with people repeatedly making more and more and inflating the economy. Bitcoin's future is not one of supercomputers mining it, but people like you and me using it.

Exactly if we increase the amount of bitcoin we will just kill bitcoin. It is just like saying if government can just print more money why doesn't it print and give it to poor.

[franky1]

We cannot rule out that possibility. It may happen and bitcoin can fork. Lets call this fork as "Bitcoin Unlimited". When there is more supply price will fall and people will begin to question it and after time "bitcoin unlimited" would loose support and die slowly. I also feel that the real and original bitcoin will keep going and will be supported by the bag holders. They will want to keep the total supply at 21 million to keep the value of bitcoin. I think bitcoin without any forks will live for ages to come.

bitcoin unlimited are not proposing a fork in the way you are suggesting.
seems you need to research some more.

if you did not realise it BU has released and full code running since 2015. running on bitcoins mainnet.
core for instance have made many propositions. such as rusty russels millisats, luke Jr's tonal bitcoin both of which change the units of measure.

also its actually core making demands for BU to fork off.. (not very community spirited for what bitcoins ethos of open no barrier of entry, WAS)
anyone thinking only CORE should exist with no diverse counterpart to level the playing field are people that want a dictatorship where there are no ways to veto out bad rule changes

cores latest implementation that meant to offer extra new features is not actually running. yep. they deactivated the segwit wallet. you cannot make a segwit transaction right now. and are required to download yet another implementation after activation.

BU doesnt require you to download endless implementations.. getting spoon fed by devs in a oliver twist script of "please sir can i have some more"

core so far have had atleast 5 implementation releases concerning the ability to make segwit possible and its still not ready to run live.
also even after activation its not 100% running live. they will make you wait for the activation, wait for the grace period, then wait again until they deem it ok for users to make segwit transactions by requiring you download yet another implementation.

please research and dont preach the 'core' choir especially when you dont understand that satoshis 2009-2013 "qt" is nothing like blockstream funded employee and volunteer intern handled "core" of 2014+.

be realistic

[Juggy777]

Hello,

Hard fork will make possible to extend the number of bitcoin in circulation (more than 21 millions).

However, everyone told me that the majority of node runners will not allow this to happen.

My question is why they will not?

Indeed, this will create more revenu for them, as there will be more bitcoin to mine and not only revenu from transaction fees.

what do you think?

This is basic economics supply and demand. Less the supply high the price, more the supply less the price. I am a bit skeptical releasing so many so soon. This shall crash the price, so in a way I don't think it should happen so soon so much.

[franky1]

Increasing the number of base units by x1000 could have some ugly psychological effect, but in reality it changes nothing, every balance would be multiplied by the same factor and the cap of 21m units called "bitcoin" would still be in place. The only difference from the users' perspective would be more decimal places.
There's nothing controversial about that, and afaik that was suggested from the start if BTC price was to go up to some incredible levels.

day 1.

fruitjuice seller: "orange juice barrels only $700 for 1000litres"
fruitjuice seller: "i have 21 million barrels to sell before i retire. hurry hurry hurry"
customerA: "great i can pour out 1000 litres to 1000 friends"
customerA: "ill buy one and comeback every day for another barrel for the next 3 years because each friend needs a litre a day"
fruitjuice seller: "great, see you tomorrow"

day 2.

fruitjuice seller: "orange juice barrels only $700 for 1000000litres"
fruitjuice seller: "i have <21 million barrels to sell before i retire. hurry hurry hurry"[/color]
customerA: "great i can pour out 1000 litres to 1000 friends and have enough for 3 years"
customerA: "ill buy one and see you in three years"
fruitjuice seller: "wait, what..so i only sell you one barrel in 3 years instead of 1 barrel a day for three years.."
fruitjuice seller: "dang i better lower my price per barrel or be stuck with not selling as many"

day 3.

fruitjuice seller: "orange juice barrels only $0.70 for 1000000litres"
fruitjuice seller: "i have <21 million barrels to sell before i retire. hurry hurry hurry"
fruitjuice seller: "now the people who gave me $700 two days ago will buy 1000 barrels even if i dont see them for a while"[/color]
customerB: "ill buy one and see you in three years, thanks for the discount too"
fruitjuice seller: "what, i still cant sell a barrel a day or 1000 barrels over 3 years to a customer, whats going wrong"

[staff_1307]

I think that now do not need any increase in Bitcoins.

[mastica]

The limits set by Nakamoto were 21 milion bitcoins, and the price is growing based into the miners reward and taking into consideration there will be only 21milion bitcoins, the code were made to work with those limits, and i really believe changing something as the supply of bitcoin will damage bitcoin in value and structure.

[mrkevio]

I do not think this is possible. Because of the halving that happens every about 4 years, the price of Bitcoin will have to rise for it to be sustained amd to continue existing. I do not think we'll ever reach 21 million - it's going to become harder and harder to get mined every time.

[franky1]

the rule is 2.1quadrillion units of measure limit.  quantified as baskets of satoshis called bitcoins equating to a 21million bitcoin limit for easy human understanding.
the hard rule about rarity and scarcity is how obtainable individual amounts, not baskets volume.

every time the price rises someone always tries to demand that the units of measure changes to go above 2.1quadrillion exchangeable units of measure limit

here is just one of the early ones.. from 2011. pretty much within 2 months of satoshi leaving people wanted to go against satoshi's design (facepalm)


it was not the first attempt and wont be the last

its an endless cycle. price rises, people then want to be able to split up their holdings to hand out to more people (double profiting in their mind) but if it actually happened the opposite to their greed would actually result