CoinSource = joke

[mikewirth]

I don't care how dumb you are, you won't be using CoinSource ATMs.  When using an ATM, it is OK to pay a fee.  We expect it.  No problem.  When not at my bank, I have to pay a high fee - sometimes $5.  In the most outrageous circumstance like when out of the country next to a remote village in Africa - $8 - $10.  Stupid fucking banks - they rob you.

Now if you'd really like to get fucked, just try to use a CoinSource ATM.  They sell at $826 / bitcoin today when the spot price is $770!!!  That is a $56 loss on the purchase of 1 BTC.

Who the fuck would do that? 

I'll bet the board meeting at CoinSource is hilarious.  "Well pres, we expected volume to be a little higher.  We didn't think our machines would just sit there all day with nobody using them."  Let me tell you CoinSource, nobody is going to use those machines which are no more than a bad joke.  $56 fee for one BTC?  No thanks. 

Flat fee of $10 is OK.  $56 is just a total fucking joke.  CoinSource will surely be bankrupt soon.  Their volume must be insanely low.  People walk up to the machine, want to buy\sell bitcoin - and leave because it is just a scam. 

Ain't nobody got time for dat!

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[Milkduds]

People often get jacked at the transaction point in these atms and yet they still draw interest.
Some vendors hide the actual fee in the conversion,for example here they exchange through currency and bitcoin.
So if I buy at say 6% fee it is that and whatever they decide to give me in the exchange from CAD to USD.
Being that it is roughly 25 cents on the dollar they can give the buyer 70 cents instead and take 5 more percent.
The few times I use a atm I always end up wondering wtf happened here!

Was a well back that I was reading about Philippines atms having fees that where way out to lunch. Like I think it was over 20%.

Its the same with the giftcards scene here,people offer 1/5th the price and just sit back waiting for the sucker.

[yayayo]

I think even at a 6-8% premium these Bitcoin ATMs will still get customers. The reason is convenience: It's very easy to obtain Bitcoin and it's immediate. When judging about high fees, you should take into consideration the following points:

1) exchange rate risk - Bitcoin has high volatility
2) development cost - this new type of ATM had to be designed
3) installation cost vs. usage - Bitcoin is still a niche market
4) lack of alternatives - there are just very few Bitcoin ATMs out there

It's simple as that: the premium will come down, once demand and competition increases. Until then, buying 1 Bitcoin for $826 today is still better than not buying 1 Bitcoin and regret it 2 years later.

ya.ya.yo!

[mikewirth]

I think even at a 6-8% premium these Bitcoin ATMs will still get customers. The reason is convenience: It's very easy to obtain Bitcoin and it's immediate. When judging about high fees, you should take into consideration the following points:

1) exchange rate risk - Bitcoin has high volatility
2) development cost - this new type of ATM had to be designed
3) installation cost vs. usage - Bitcoin is still a niche market
4) lack of alternatives - there are just very few Bitcoin ATMs out there

It's simple as that: the premium will come down, once demand and competition increases. Until then, buying 1 Bitcoin for $826 today is still better than not buying 1 Bitcoin and regret it 2 years later.

ya.ya.yo!

wtf?  Are you just kidding?

1) there is no exchange rate risk.  The transaction happens at one moment in time and there is a corresponding spot rate for that moment, every moment.  Exchange rate risk occurs when you change currency, hold for a discrete period, sell currency.  Coinsource holds a bank of two currencies simultaneously - they don't liquidate back to fiat after every sale.

2) development cost is irrelevant to the customer.  The customer is only concerned with the price value of the single transaction.  If CoinSource can't push out development costs to be recovered on future profits, rather than recover those from users in the short term, the price will be far too high for the service and no consumer will use the service.

3) No matter how niche, the consumer only cares about cost value of his transaction - not about supporting a small community with very high prices.

4) true.  Not too many out there.  Only 23 in my city.  But there will be zero soon because nobody will knowingly pay $56 to get 1 bitcoin.

yayayo - you might be some kind of dumbass, or just screwing around.

[European Central Bank]

i think standalone bitcoin atms are a dead end. there'll always be insurmountable costs and i don't think there's enough interest to justify running one. how much would one of these things turn over? you have to buy it, someone has to give up retail space and then there's the ongoing costs.

way better to integrate it into another payment cluster such as the swiss train system.

[Shiroslullaby]

Yeah 7% charge seems a little high.

But most people probably aren't going to buy an entire Bitcoin, so while paying a 7% fee is really huge on $700,
think about what you pay at an ATM.
If you only take $20 out of an atm and pay a $2.50 fee, you are paying more than 10%.
Most people will probably buy $20 to $100 and pay 7%, which is a smaller charge at the lower end.

[yayayo]

wtf?  Are you just kidding?

No, I'm not kidding. And I don't use gutterspeak...

You are one of these Roger Ver shills, whose job is to constantly complain about high prices in every possible manner to justify the destruction of network decentralization by implementing an excessive big block scheme.

You don't have the slightest clue what it takes to operate a proper business. It involves a lot of work and costs that have to be redeemed someday. If these ATMs are too expensive for you, then don't use them. But don't come here whining and insulting people, who did a lot of work to offer a service.

Prices for newly developed services and products are always higher than for established ones.

ya.ya.yo!

[pooya87]

this is exactly why i always say a bank + bitcoin is a joke right now. it may change in the future if more of them get into this business and things become more competitive but right now it is a rip off, and i don't see why anyone would ever want to use it as long as you can either choose direct bitcoin payment from your bitcoin wallet or simply using the traditional fiat payment methods (cash or credit,... cards)

[MingLee]

It honestly doesn't surprise me that these ATM companies charge insane fees on their services, but at the same time they have to realize such a system is unsustainable and it is damaging to the company in the long run, especially if work gets out that their ATM service charges massive overheads on everything.

A +$56 fee for a $755 purchase is insane. I can at most see a $20 fee, on a scummy service.

[Xester]

I don't care how dumb you are, you won't be using CoinSource ATMs.  When using an ATM, it is OK to pay a fee.  We expect it.  No problem.  When not at my bank, I have to pay a high fee - sometimes $5.  In the most outrageous circumstance like when out of the country next to a remote village in Africa - $8 - $10.  Stupid fucking banks - they rob you.

Now if you'd really like to get fucked, just try to use a CoinSource ATM.  They sell at $826 / bitcoin today when the spot price is $770!!!  That is a $56 loss on the purchase of 1 BTC.

Who the fuck would do that? 

I'll bet the board meeting at CoinSource is hilarious.  "Well pres, we expected volume to be a little higher.  We didn't think our machines would just sit there all day with nobody using them."  Let me tell you CoinSource, nobody is going to use those machines which are no more than a bad joke.  $56 fee for one BTC?  No thanks. 

Flat fee of $10 is OK.  $56 is just a total fucking joke.  CoinSource will surely be bankrupt soon.  Their volume must be insanely low.  People walk up to the machine, want to buy\sell bitcoin - and leave because it is just a scam. 

Ain't nobody got time for dat!

That is very true if we convert bitcoin to cash there is a huge gap between buying and selling bitcoins. Actually I hate it but if we look at the market the selling and buying of bitcoins has a gap also for example someone sells it at 700$ but the orders at buying price is at 699$. SO i guess due to volatility of bitcoin the company such as coinsource will actually want to play safe to avoid losses so they made that system to protect their company. Overall, their system sucks instead of us earning from doing bitcoins we actually suffer bigger fees but we have no choice but to use their system.

[piloder]

Situation is almost same in indian local trading paltforms like unocoin https://www.unocoin.com/charts
Price is around 61,645 INR = 903.88 USD which is even higher than what coinsource ATM price you are talking about. I think this high price is due to high demand within africa where as there are only limited amount of seller there and also lack of many trading platforms.

[coolcoinz]

They want to get back the money they've spent on the machine fast and ATMs are quite expensive and the market unstable, so I completely understand them.

Haha no, just joking, they're just greedy.

[michkima]

They want to get back the money they've spent on the machine fast and ATMs are quite expensive and the market unstable, so I completely understand them.

Haha no, just joking, they're just greedy.

Nah, your joke was real here. The company is trying it's best just to trick people to use their machines. Imagine if 10/100 would be using the machine and didn't know the currency price of bitcoin. That's already a good margin for them. Lesser transactions with high income per transaction are probably their aim. They are probably hoping they can get people to buy because of convenience. At the rate of an additional 8% per transaction that's steep. I already hate paying an additional 1% on my purchases and sale of my coins. Now, this thing charges eight times the rate I hate. Now that's a frustrating machine.

[poptok1]

-snip-
Flat fee of $10 is OK.

At my place the flat fee is 3$ and margin equals 2% of transaction, at current bitcoin price it will be 17$ however anonymous payout (with smartphone) will only be 7$ of additional fee so 10bucks in total. (limits apply)
Stuff you are saying seam like nightmare...
Boycott the shit out of that service I don't know, maybe tip the IRS or NSA whatever. Edit: I know, call a Pope they are quite creative when handling money 
That kind of practice only harms altcoin world, prevents adoption...

They want to get back the money they've spent on the machine fast and ATMs are quite expensive and the market unstable, so I completely understand them.
Haha no, just joking, they're just greedy.

Well, are they sooo expensive? 11K$ when you want to buy just one single machine, in bulk... who knows but I bet its ~5K if not less when assembled in CPR.

[Tyrantt]

ATMs are robing you in any case, either using fiat or bitcoin. Fees are ridiculous and that's why I gave up on ordering a debit card for exchanging bitcoin, so now when I bitcoin for fiat, I do directly to bank to withdraw money since they don't take fees then.

[coolcoinz]

-snip-
Flat fee of $10 is OK.

At my place the flat fee is 3$ and margin equals 2% of transaction, at current bitcoin price it will be 17$ however anonymous payout (with smartphone) will only be 7$ of additional fee so 10bucks in total. (limits apply)
Stuff you are saying seam like nightmare...
Boycott the shit out of that service I don't know, maybe tip the IRS or NSA whatever. Edit: I know, call a Pope they are quite creative when handling money 
That kind of practice only harms altcoin world, prevents adoption...

They want to get back the money they've spent on the machine fast and ATMs are quite expensive and the market unstable, so I completely understand them.
Haha no, just joking, they're just greedy.

Well, are they sooo expensive? 11K$ when you want to buy just one single machine, in bulk... who knows but I bet its ~5K if not less when assembled in CPR.

They can be as expensive as $14k. Check this manufacturer for instance https://coinatmradar.com/manufacturer/3/genesis-coin-bitcoin-atm-producer/
Of course you can get them cheaper. Lamassu for instance sells one for less than $2k.

[Priam]

Frankly, I wouldn't mind using those, even at that fee, if I was involved in some shady operations or if I wanted to get my bitcoins now. To that day, I've not found a way to buy bitcoins using a credit card.

[mikewirth]

You are one of these Roger Ver shills, whose job is to constantly complain about high prices in every possible manner to justify the destruction of network decentralization by implementing an excessive big block scheme.

You are clearly an idiot.

I have nothing at all to do with Roger Ver and know very little about him. 

"destruction of network decentralization" - this is the biggest lie since Hilary Clinton stop speaking.  4MB blocks do not upset decentralization.  What really fucks up decentralization is Blockstream and Maxwell maintaining control by convincing a few weak but large miners in China to go with him.  If the Chinese had balls and didn't fear walking away from Blockstream, we'd have far better decentralization. 

[Kprawn]

It is greedy services like this that are killing Bitcoin adoption... We are saying "Bitcoin transactions are almost FREE" and it's true.. if you not

using third party services, but once you use these services, your almost FREE transactions ... turns into "expensive" transactions. I converted

some Bitcoins to fiat today, and I had to use an exchange... They charged me 2% for that privilege. We need to make direct transactions,

without third party services. 

[mikewirth]

It is greedy services like this that are killing Bitcoin adoption... We are saying "Bitcoin transactions are almost FREE" and it's true.. if you not

using third party services, but once you use these services, your almost FREE transactions ... turns into "expensive" transactions. I converted

some Bitcoins to fiat today, and I had to use an exchange... They charged me 2% for that privilege. We need to make direct transactions,

without third party services.  

This is actually just starting to occur now.  While it still is a bit complex, the Omni platform allows you to trade, without ANY exchange, USD for Bitcoin - and a whole bunch of other crypto tokens.  This is all done on the BITCOIN blockchain.  No bullshit blockchain here. Most importantly, there is NO EXCHANGER.  There is just a buyer and a seller.  There is NO SPREAD!!!  The buying price is the selling price!!!  While it is going to take a few years to get popular and efficient with liquidity, it is working today.  You really can trade 770 USD for 1 Bitcoin with no fee.  With a little time, this system will be HUGE.  And it will ruin those greedy assholes at CoinSource as nobody will ever give them even $5.6 let alone $56 dollars for a trade. 

Technically, the USD is the crypto version of USD - that is Tether USD.  But, nevertheless, you could easily get 1:1 tether:fiat USD from some sources.  

Decentralized trading is in its infancy, but coming to a blockchain near you very soon.