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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3007609 times)
FiatKiller
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November 05, 2013, 11:45:29 PM
 #19901

I ditched FW 9.8.1 because over time the hashrate and WU dropped way too much. Hardware error rate was still 1% lower, but that is not enough to make-up for the first two being down 7-8%. Went back to FW 9.8 no problem.

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The Avenger
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November 05, 2013, 11:55:58 PM
 #19902

Anyway tip jar's below, don't be shy!! Everyone else has been pretty flakey, bar Roadstress and Bargraphics and a handful of others, hasn't even covered the first set of flights...Tongue


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November 06, 2013, 12:04:16 AM
 #19903

No, you had an infinite number of choices on how to invest your money.  Why single out buying BTC as the only other alternative to buying a miner?

What is said was:
Quote
If you had $7000 to invest in BTC

We're not comparing investing in BTC to other forms of investments, only investing in BTC via mining or directly.

I personally did buy BTC directly as well as buy a miner and I lost my shorts on the direct BTC investment.  Sitting here today, I know I should have just held it but I sold for a loss of ~30%.  When you say "you should have bought BTC instead of a miner", what you are really saying is "you should have bought BTC on the day you bought your miner and used your powers of prediction to delay selling it until today."

When you bought the miner you also invested in BTC that you would receive in a predicted future time period. You would have of course also predicted that the exchange rate would be the same or higher at that time if you decided to invest. The same is true when investing directly. You could have decided to hold those BTC until a certain period of time or many of the other investment strategies that people employ. The fact is that you had the option to sell or hold which you don't when investing in a miner pre-order. So yes investing in a miner does help avoid panic selling when you have no solid investment strategy but also prevents you from cashing out when there's a rally such as the time I was waiting for my Batch #2 Avalons and the rate hit $260. It works both ways and your decision to sell at a loss is not related to your BTC ROI on the miner.
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November 06, 2013, 12:08:43 AM
 #19904

No, you had an infinite number of choices on how to invest your money.  Why single out buying BTC as the only other alternative to buying a miner?

What is said was:
Quote
If you had $7000 to invest in BTC

We're not comparing investing in BTC to other forms of investments, only investing in BTC via mining or directly.

I personally did buy BTC directly as well as buy a miner and I lost my shorts on the direct BTC investment.  Sitting here today, I know I should have just held it but I sold for a loss of ~30%.  When you say "you should have bought BTC instead of a miner", what you are really saying is "you should have bought BTC on the day you bought your miner and used your powers of prediction to delay selling it until today."

When you bought the miner you also invested in BTC that you would receive in a predicted future time period. You would have of course also predicted that the exchange rate would be the same or higher at that time if you decided to invest. The same is true when investing directly. You could have decided to hold those BTC until a certain period of time or many of the investment strategies that people employ. The fact is that you had the option to sell or hold which you don't when investing in a miner pre-order. So yes investing in a miner does help panic selling when you have no solid investment strategy but also prevents you from cashing out when there's a rally such as the time I was waiting for my Batch #2 Avalons and the rate hit $260. It works both ways and your decision to sell at a loss is not related to your BTC ROI on the miner.

I am not investing in BTC.  I am investing in any way to make dollars.  I have many investments.  This one happens to have something to do with BTC but what it does is generate dollars.
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November 06, 2013, 01:12:10 AM
 #19905

I am not investing in BTC.  I am investing in any way to make dollars.  I have many investments.  This one happens to have something to do with BTC but what it does is generate dollars.

Wow OK now I think I understand why some people are paying a premium for miners that have no way of having positive BTC ROI.

Any time you "invest" you are trading the value of one thing (USD) for the value of another thing (BTC via mining) with the prediction that the second thing (BTC) will increase relatively (to USD) in value over time. So when you buy a miner you are investing your USD into a predicted amount of BTC you will receive in a future time period. If you don't agree with this basic fact then there's no point in continuing the dialog.
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November 06, 2013, 01:23:06 AM
 #19906

I am not investing in BTC.  I am investing in any way to make dollars.  I have many investments.  This one happens to have something to do with BTC but what it does is generate dollars.

Wow OK now I think I understand why some people are paying a premium for miners that have no way of having positive BTC ROI.

Any time you "invest" you are trading the value of one thing (USD) for the value of another thing (BTC via mining) with the prediction that the second thing (BTC) will increase relatively (to USD) in value over time. So when you buy a miner you are investing your USD into a predicted amount of BTC you will receive in a future time period. If you don't agree with this basic fact then there's no point in continuing the dialog.

Hang on did you buy a KNC miner? It was priced in US Dollars, not BTC. If you paid in BTC you paid for the dollar value of the BTC at the time of purchase. If you decide to invest your dollars in something that generates BTC you can decide whether that generated income is valuable to you in BTC or in the dollar value of that BTC.

Thats why if you asked for a refund you wouldn't get the refund in the same amount of BTC you converted to pay for it, you would get the refund in the current number of BTC that equals the amount you paid for the device.

I'm investing my cash (because I paid cash, not BTC or BTC converted into cash) in a machine that will create more cash than I invested. I only care about the BTC part of it from a) a conversion medium for cash, and b) a technical whimsy*

*I like technical stuff, in fact I have more money invested in Protein folding research machines than I do in bitcoin machines, and they have zero ROI

I only care about the BTC generated by my miner in as much as its value relative to the fiat I can convert it into eventually.

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November 06, 2013, 01:51:02 AM
 #19907

Hang on did you buy a KNC miner? It was priced in US Dollars, not BTC. If you paid in BTC you paid for the dollar value of the BTC at the time of purchase. If you decide to invest your dollars in something that generates BTC you can decide whether that generated income is valuable to you in BTC or in the dollar value of that BTC.
Yes I did and knew that I was cashing out my BTC for $7000 in USD which I was then then investing in the amount of BTC I predicted the Jupiter to make. It looks like my prediction was off because of the shipping delay and unexpected difficulty increases so I should have just held onto the BTC because my goal was to increase my BTC holdings since I predicted the BTC exchange rate would continue increasing. The fiat profit I made is a small consolation since I would have most likely made much more by NOT buying the Jupiter.

Thats why if you asked for a refund you wouldn't get the refund in the same amount of BTC you converted to pay for it, you would get the refund in the current number of BTC that equals the amount you paid for the device.
I've never asked for a refund and blame my miscalculation on the rising difficulty since I factored in a 1 month shipping delay in my calculations. I am very happy with KNC and do not blame them for the situation and only want people to realize the nature of investing in miners.

I only care about the BTC generated by my miner in as much as its value relative to the fiat I can convert it into eventually.
If you choose not to look at the results of your investment in mining to learn that buying BTC directly would have been a better investment then that is your choice but that is the fact.
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November 06, 2013, 01:53:07 AM
 #19908

Other than re-upping on Equipment...
 I just don't see any sane reason why a miner would cash his/her bitcoins in right now...
unless you are starving or something...


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November 06, 2013, 01:57:38 AM
 #19909

Other than re-upping on Equipment...
 I just don't see any sane reason why a miner would cash his/her bitcoins in right now...
unless you are starving or something...

It actually makes quite a bit of sense to dollar cost average to a position you feel comfortable with.  most investing books say that this is the best mechanism to reduce risk and reap maximum rewards.  In our case, setting up a periodic sell order at market price for a fixed amount of USD is probably a good idea.

Related to the off topic BTC investment discussion, Tehfiend is right.  You bought a machine that produces BTC, not USD.  the fact that we are USD positive is just good luck.  We would have been better off today by buying BTC directly.  In my situation, i'll end up being BTC break even in 3 or 4 more weekstm
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November 06, 2013, 02:03:40 AM
 #19910

Other than re-upping on Equipment...
 I just don't see any sane reason why a miner would cash his/her bitcoins in right now...
unless you are starving or something...

It actually makes quite a bit of sense to dollar cost average to a position you feel comfortable with.  most investing books say that this is the best mechanism to reduce risk and reap maximum rewards.  In our case, setting up a periodic sell order at market price for a fixed amount of USD is probably a good idea.

I have predetermined buy and sell benchmarks. When BTC raises to X USD I sell Y% of my BTC holdings. When BTC drops to A USD I buy BTC worth B% of my USD holdings. That way I can still ride they waves and cash in on the crashes. It's like gambling. You should never use your emotions but quit when you either A) lose a certain amount B) win a certain amount or C) gamble for a certain period of time. If you don't have a plan then your emotions will wreck you...
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November 06, 2013, 02:13:29 AM
 #19911

Other than re-upping on Equipment...
 I just don't see any sane reason why a miner would cash his/her bitcoins in right now...
unless you are starving or something...

It actually makes quite a bit of sense to dollar cost average to a position you feel comfortable with.  most investing books say that this is the best mechanism to reduce risk and reap maximum rewards.  In our case, setting up a periodic sell order at market price for a fixed amount of USD is probably a good idea.

I have predetermined buy and sell benchmarks. When BTC raises to X USD I sell Y% of my BTC holdings. When BTC drops to A USD I buy BTC worth B% of my USD holdings. That way I can still ride they waves and cash in on the crashes. It's like gambling. You should never use your emotions but quit when you either A) lose a certain amount B) win a certain amount or C) gamble for a certain period of time. If you don't have a plan then your emotions will wreck you...

Yeah - it is absolutely like gambling.  We all know that a stock portfolio picked by darts will do about as good as an intelligent investor.  We learned that the hard way in my finance classes.  I consider all of this as a learning experience that provides great dinner/bar conversation.  Practically everyone wants to know more when i mention bitcoin, which makes all of this worth it.  ROI be damned.

On a different topic, i kind of feel like we should be giving collective high fives, given the mess that hashfast is turning out to be.
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November 06, 2013, 02:15:22 AM
 #19912

I'm not sure why everybody keeps talking about hindsite.

Um, well....


Yes I did and knew that I was cashing out my BTC for $7000 in USD which I was then then investing in the amount of BTC I predicted the Jupiter to make. It looks like my prediction was off because of the shipping delay and unexpected difficulty increases so I should have just held onto the BTC because my goal was to increase my BTC holdings since I predicted the BTC exchange rate would continue increasing. The fiat profit I made is a small consolation since I would have most likely made much more by NOT buying the Jupiter.


LOL, so in HINDSIGHT you have determined you should have bought BTC and not the Jupiter, right?  ROFL.
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November 06, 2013, 02:33:17 AM
 #19913

When ckolivas provided a link to a version of cgminer that supposedly might fix the problem of your miner just stopping, I ssh'd in and wgot it and ran it and all seemed well for a while.

But just now it stopped. The lasting thing my ssh session saw was:

Code:
[2013-11-06 02:16:30] Accepted 083a245b Diff 31/16 KnC 0Killed
                                                               @Saturn-AEB:/home/root#

It seems to be saying that something actually killed it rather than that is ran into some kind of fatal error?

If so, what would have killed it, and why?

/var/log doesn't look too helpful in figuring out what happened...

-MarkM-

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November 06, 2013, 02:49:20 AM
 #19914

When ckolivas provided a link to a version of cgminer that supposedly might fix the problem of your miner just stopping, I ssh'd in and wgot it and ran it and all seemed well for a while.

But just now it stopped. The lasting thing my ssh session saw was:

Code:
[2013-11-06 02:16:30] Accepted 083a245b Diff 31/16 KnC 0Killed
                                                               @Saturn-AEB:/home/root#

It seems to be saying that something actually killed it rather than that is ran into some kind of fatal error?

If so, what would have killed it, and why?

/var/log doesn't look too helpful in figuring out what happened...

-MarkM-

Your diff is/was set pretty low.....?
Don't know if that would prompt a crash or overload or anything, but just pointing it out...


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November 06, 2013, 02:59:10 AM
 #19915

Set> Hmm it never even occurred to me that some pools do let you specify the difficulty of shares you want.

I always just ifgured the pools are adjusting it based on how fast you get solutions to them, so as to slow you down or speed you up as they think best?

I was mining mmpool, not sure if it even has a way I can tell it a specific difficulty I'd like.

-MarkM-

EDIT: Okay apparently it is cgminer that I tell my desired difficulty to, I thought it used to be some add-on code you put in the pool URL or something but apparently it is a commandline argument to cgminer. What kind of diffuclty would be better? I am have been seeing pretty good hashing speeds. Also that killed remark seems to hint it is the O/S or the web scripts or something external to cgminer that is killing me not some error inside cgminer...

-MarkM-

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November 06, 2013, 04:35:23 AM
 #19916

somethings up.  I'm fighting with all my machines, someone hates me.

Loose ground wire internal of a switching supply to a laptop - might have put noise on the line causing the 2 RPi to go down and other systems to falter.  Love the 0.98 firmware.



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Tehfiend
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November 06, 2013, 05:03:29 AM
 #19917

I'm not sure why everybody keeps talking about hindsite.

Um, well....


Yes I did and knew that I was cashing out my BTC for $7000 in USD which I was then then investing in the amount of BTC I predicted the Jupiter to make. It looks like my prediction was off because of the shipping delay and unexpected difficulty increases so I should have just held onto the BTC because my goal was to increase my BTC holdings since I predicted the BTC exchange rate would continue increasing. The fiat profit I made is a small consolation since I would have most likely made much more by NOT buying the Jupiter.


LOL, so in HINDSIGHT you have determined you should have bought BTC and not the Jupiter, right?  ROFL.

Yes the point is that hind-site shows me that I should have invested directly in BTC (or held them in my case) instead of buying a Jupiter where many are claiming that it was NOT a bad decision simply because they didn't have the hind-site to know the future. Big difference. Well I'm done wading through the mud, can't say I didn't try Cheesy
Tehfiend
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November 06, 2013, 05:05:41 AM
 #19918

Set> Hmm it never even occurred to me that some pools do let you specify the difficulty of shares you want.

I always just ifgured the pools are adjusting it based on how fast you get solutions to them, so as to slow you down or speed you up as they think best?

I was mining mmpool, not sure if it even has a way I can tell it a specific difficulty I'd like.

-MarkM-

EDIT: Okay apparently it is cgminer that I tell my desired difficulty to, I thought it used to be some add-on code you put in the pool URL or something but apparently it is a commandline argument to cgminer. What kind of diffuclty would be better? I am have been seeing pretty good hashing speeds. Also that killed remark seems to hint it is the O/S or the web scripts or something external to cgminer that is killing me not some error inside cgminer...

-MarkM-


From what I understand is that you can set the MINUMUM difficulty via the pools which will usually auto adjust based on your hashrate. This decreases the time to adjust to your optimal difficulty since it will not have to start at 1. That is how Eligius and BTCguild work from my experiences (although the Eligius minimum difficulty doesn't work yet).
djcoin
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November 06, 2013, 05:07:34 AM
 #19919

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-63


"Unbeknown to the community we are currently developing the next generation product in 20nm/16nm process with Alchip "
texaslabrat
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November 06, 2013, 05:12:03 AM
 #19920

I'm not sure why everybody keeps talking about hindsite.

Um, well....


Yes I did and knew that I was cashing out my BTC for $7000 in USD which I was then then investing in the amount of BTC I predicted the Jupiter to make. It looks like my prediction was off because of the shipping delay and unexpected difficulty increases so I should have just held onto the BTC because my goal was to increase my BTC holdings since I predicted the BTC exchange rate would continue increasing. The fiat profit I made is a small consolation since I would have most likely made much more by NOT buying the Jupiter.


LOL, so in HINDSIGHT you have determined you should have bought BTC and not the Jupiter, right?  ROFL.

Yes the point is that hind-site shows me that I should have invested directly in BTC instead of buying a Jupiter where many are claiming that it was NOT a bad decision simply because they didn't have the hind-site to know the future. Big difference. Well I'm done wading through the mud, can't say I didn't try Cheesy

LOL I get you..I thought it was just pure comedic providence to put your two quotes together :p
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