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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3012379 times)
Phoenix1969
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November 25, 2013, 05:51:38 PM
 #23201

yep, ouch. single rails provide much cleaner power and are able to supply the extra amperage during the spikes in hashrate... and two 1500watt supplies on a 20 amp circuit is not so good either...(20 amps x 110v = 2200 watt max per 20 amp circuit, (or in EU...220v x 10amp = 2200watt)and you are saying there is more than two jupiters on that circuit?....I really think it's your power situation now for sure...

I think these 'spikes in hashrate' you see is just variance.  The chips run at a constant speed.

Variance does not cause your miner to draw more or less current.
Okay spikes are variance....?  yes... and what causes that variance?...who knows...have you used a kil-o-watt to see that what you are saying is correct? Yours stay rock-solid on a single wattage reading? Mine don't. The reading on mine at the wall goes up & down in direct correlation with the variance...   and when I had them on a "Shared circuit"  it was terribly obvious the other things going on were effecting it when the kil-o-watt dropped when other things were used in the house, like microwave oven, coffee pot, toaster, aircon, etc....   That's just my observations here, which is why I say that.
You can even watch bertmod to verify what I'm saying.... the vrm output goes up & down with hashrate as well
My VRM's are  outputting a FULL 12v, @ 50amps now btw... and if I said how...Edgar would complain.... but it has to do with temps and clean, unwavering, unlimited power....


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puffer
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November 25, 2013, 05:52:17 PM
 #23202

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-68
 All,

Just a quick note to say that the factory started producing the November boxes today and 100 have already left via UPS.

We will ramp up production over night and over the next few days. We aim to have all the November boxes shipped before the end of the month.

Thanks

KnC Team

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November 25, 2013, 05:53:35 PM
 #23203

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-68
 All,

Just a quick note to say that the factory started producing the November boxes today and 100 have already left via UPS.

We will ramp up production over night and over the next few days. We aim to have all the November boxes shipped before the end of the month.

Thanks

KnC Team
Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet!


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bobsag3
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November 25, 2013, 05:56:42 PM
 #23204

None of the 4 for my GB's have shipped Sad, but glad to hear they are working on it!
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November 25, 2013, 06:01:56 PM
 #23205

The power line could be the problem indeed. As for PSU I'm using 2 X Enermax Maxrevo 1500W (gold), one powering the Jupiter, the other powering the 2 saturns. They have 4 12V rails available for PCI-e and I simply use one rail for each module.
My Jupiter runs just fine on 0.98.1 beta and it ran fine on 0.99 since release until today, when I found it running with all die #0 offline so i switched back to 0.98.1 beta. Just the 2 Saturns seems to have been affected. They still run "ok" with only die #0 offline on 0.98.
By the way, both PSU's are getting power from the same line.
yep, ouch. single rails provide much cleaner power and are able to supply the extra amperage during the spikes in hashrate... and two 1500watt supplies on a 20 amp circuit is not so good either...(20 amps x 110v = 2200 watt max per 20 amp circuit, (or in EU...220v x 10amp = 2200watt)and you are saying there is more than two jupiters on that circuit?....I really think it's your power situation now for sure...

No, it's one Jupiter and 2 Saturns. The line is EU (220V), my house also has the "tri-phasic" circuit, I'm a total noob about that I have no idea what kind of line I'm currently using Smiley Anyways, the issues only appeared after the 0.99 FW, they ran just fine before that on 0.98.1 (fine meaning getting all dies on at high temps).
Here's a screenshot of the miner at start-up on 0.98.1 now: http://imgur.com/VHqBUf6. The other Saturn is even more weird, it starts normally, it powers up all dies once enough temp is achieved and after a while, it just starts turning off almost all cores on the 2nd ASIC (same asic affected on the other Saturn).
Again, they both run just fine on 0.98, of course with die #0 turned off: http://imgur.com/LbzqRIM

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November 25, 2013, 06:08:22 PM
 #23206

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-68
 All,

Just a quick note to say that the factory started producing the November boxes today and 100 have already left via UPS.

We will ramp up production over night and over the next few days. We aim to have all the November boxes shipped before the end of the month.

Thanks

KnC Team
Sweeeeeeeeeeeeet!
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November 25, 2013, 06:09:51 PM
 #23207

O'rama, be nice: can you give us a hint of hashrate? What kind of ASIC will it be?

There will be more info tomo. Figures have been mentioned, but I'm not going to steal anyone else's thunder. They're working hard for this, 20nm is just being released for commercial use, and we'll be one of the first companies in the world to half-step down to this process node. The figures have to make sense, Alchip flew here Friday week before last, and we are proceeding with the design.


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November 25, 2013, 06:13:25 PM
 #23208

Pretty Awesome Orama!! KnC is just crapping on the competition!

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Phoenix1969
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November 25, 2013, 06:15:02 PM
 #23209

The power line could be the problem indeed. As for PSU I'm using 2 X Enermax Maxrevo 1500W (gold), one powering the Jupiter, the other powering the 2 saturns. They have 4 12V rails available for PCI-e and I simply use one rail for each module.
My Jupiter runs just fine on 0.98.1 beta and it ran fine on 0.99 since release until today, when I found it running with all die #0 offline so i switched back to 0.98.1 beta. Just the 2 Saturns seems to have been affected. They still run "ok" with only die #0 offline on 0.98.
By the way, both PSU's are getting power from the same line.
yep, ouch. single rails provide much cleaner power and are able to supply the extra amperage during the spikes in hashrate... and two 1500watt supplies on a 20 amp circuit is not so good either...(20 amps x 110v = 2200 watt max per 20 amp circuit, (or in EU...220v x 10amp = 2200watt)and you are saying there is more than two jupiters on that circuit?....I really think it's your power situation now for sure...

No, it's one Jupiter and 2 Saturns. The line is EU (220V), my house also has the "tri-phasic" circuit, I'm a total noob about that I have no idea what kind of line I'm currently using Smiley Anyways, the issues only appeared after the 0.99 FW, they ran just fine before that on 0.98.1 (fine meaning getting all dies on at high temps).
Here's a screenshot of the miner at start-up on 0.98.1 now: http://imgur.com/VHqBUf6. The other Saturn is even more weird, it starts normally, it powers up all dies once enough temp is achieved and after a while, it just starts turning off almost all cores on the 2nd ASIC (same asic affected on the other Saturn).
Again, they both run just fine on 0.98, of course with die #0 turned off: http://imgur.com/LbzqRIM
So, what's the problem then exactly?  Just go back to the firmware that works best then.... You are experiencing what many of us did....do...are experiencing then with the firmware....mine all run best on the 0.98.1 beta, and so I just use that.
I Hope you can get it worked out......  every machine seems to haveit's own attitude!...lol


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Henchman24
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November 25, 2013, 06:18:29 PM
 #23210

single rails provide much cleaner power and are able to supply the extra amperage

You keep saying this.  Can you provide some support for this statement please?

Antec, for one, seems to disagree with you.

http://www.antec.com/PSU/index.php
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November 25, 2013, 06:23:43 PM
 #23211



No details. Coming SoonTM

Wow!  20nm AND early 2014!

That MUST be the "incoming news" announcement from 'orama.

anyone care to speculate on the other specs and prices? just for fun

I'll get us started, 2TH @ =< 0.5 watt per ghs

and selling for $3999. or less Wink

Power at the wall is an issue for us not prepared to upgrade our incoming service.

In the future everything will be hosted I imagine.
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November 25, 2013, 06:24:25 PM
 #23212

single rails provide much cleaner power and are able to supply the extra amperage

You keep saying this.  Can you provide some support for this statement please?
okay, I had a brand-new 700watt atx, that had 5 12v rails, which totally fried just trying to run a Saturn for 5 lousy minutes.  Why?...each of the two pci feeds had a 150 watt rating, and the boards draw very close to that amount. It fried. I'm trying to save you from my mistakes....
Why would anyone want a multirail psu anyway? one rail overloads....you're done.
with a single 12v rail, no single pci feed can overload the psu...nor hamper the hashrate from limiting the current flow due to overdraw....period!
Hope that helps..
*Some may forget, but I'm an energy researcher, and recently consultant to a large energy corporation in development of fuel gasification technologies, more specifically in the development of more efficient systems using resonant energies through the application of harnessing the bounce of signal between a HV coil, and a PWM, as well as the enhancement of combustion through the use of adding Direct Injection, plasma ignition, and Hydroxy gasses made through the harnessing of the coil HV signal bounce, and shunted to a 143 plate cell where it is produced, and then metered into the Gaseous injection system, mixed with the vapors from whatever your fuel is in the gassifier...
enough on that...
but I can't stress enough how the actual current reaching any electronic(especially digital)device is critical to it's performance.


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btc_uzr
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November 25, 2013, 06:27:12 PM
 #23213



No details. Coming SoonTM

Wow!  20nm AND early 2014!

That MUST be the "incoming news" announcement from 'orama.

Bingo!

Great news, 20nm!
Bad news 'Orders opening soon'!


Bitcoinorama, in hope I get not ignored I'd like to ask the following:

1) Why is the pre-order game continuing ?
     Didn't they collect enough money to fund the next gen ?!

2) Do you have to pay the full price when opening the order books or is it like pay 10-20% up front and then the rest when it's close to shipping...?

3) How much will they approximately cost ? Would be very nice to get a clue before you actually have to pay..

4) ANY advantage for the early investors who took a high risk and making KnCMiner's success possible in first place ?

5) Will there be another batch of upgrade boards for October gen ?



Thank you very much in advance for your answers!


**For those who want to pay in BTC, be aware here's a guy offering you a 60% return of your coins without additional costs for electricity, tranquilizers, waiting, or else...might be the better choice  Wink

!! File Complaints Against KnCMiner NOW !!
..and Thou shalt spread the coin in the name of cryptography for eternity
Henchman24
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November 25, 2013, 06:37:58 PM
 #23214

single rails provide much cleaner power and are able to supply the extra amperage

You keep saying this.  Can you provide some support for this statement please?
okay, I had a 700watt atx, that had 5 rails, which totally fried just trying to run a Saturn for 5 lousy minutes.  Why?...each pci feed had a 150 watt rating, and the boards draw very close to that amount. It fried. I'm trying to save you from my mistakes....

Your argument is a red herring.  The OP was very specific about the PSU he was using, which supplies more than adequate amperage per rail.

The above is a story about you choosing an inadequate multi-rail PSU.  To use that one example to support your above statement is just silly.

Surely you must see that?

I can see why Edgar gets frustrated with some of your posts.  You have a hard time admitting when you're wrong.

The plural of anecdote is not data.
xyzzy099
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November 25, 2013, 06:42:42 PM
 #23215

yep, ouch. single rails provide much cleaner power and are able to supply the extra amperage during the spikes in hashrate... and two 1500watt supplies on a 20 amp circuit is not so good either...(20 amps x 110v = 2200 watt max per 20 amp circuit, (or in EU...220v x 10amp = 2200watt)and you are saying there is more than two jupiters on that circuit?....I really think it's your power situation now for sure...

I think these 'spikes in hashrate' you see is just variance.  The chips run at a constant speed.

Variance does not cause your miner to draw more or less current.
Okay spikes are variance....?  yes... and what causes that variance?...who knows...have you used a kil-o-watt to see that what you are saying is correct? Yours stay rock-solid on a single wattage reading? Mine don't. The reading on mine at the wall goes up & down in direct correlation with the variance...   and when I had them on a "Shared circuit"  it was terribly obvious the other things going on were effecting it when the kil-o-watt dropped when other things were used in the house, like microwave oven, coffee pot, toaster, aircon, etc....   That's just my observations here, which is why I say that.
You can even watch bertmod to verify what I'm saying.... the vrm output goes up & down with hashrate as well
My VRM's are  outputting a FULL 12v, @ 50amps now btw... and if I said how...Edgar would complain.... but it has to do with temps and clean, unwavering, unlimited power....

Variance is caused by luck.

Spikes (both up and down) in your apparent hashrate can (and do) happen based on sheer luck.  Your miner could, say, generate 10 diff 256 shares in 10 hashes, and it will look to the pool like your hashrate is much higher than it really is, briefly.  The converse is also true.

One thing that could possibly explain your observation though is the enabling and disabling of cores - that would affect both your hashrate and the current draw, I imagine, but it seems like the difference would be pretty small unless a number of cores get enabled/disabled at once.  Each core is only 1/192 of one modules hashpower and probably an even smaller fraction of it's current requirements.


Libertarians:  Diligently plotting to take over the world and leave you alone.
Phoenix1969
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November 25, 2013, 06:54:16 PM
 #23216

yep, ouch. single rails provide much cleaner power and are able to supply the extra amperage during the spikes in hashrate... and two 1500watt supplies on a 20 amp circuit is not so good either...(20 amps x 110v = 2200 watt max per 20 amp circuit, (or in EU...220v x 10amp = 2200watt)and you are saying there is more than two jupiters on that circuit?....I really think it's your power situation now for sure...

I think these 'spikes in hashrate' you see is just variance.  The chips run at a constant speed.

Variance does not cause your miner to draw more or less current.
Okay spikes are variance....?  yes... and what causes that variance?...who knows...have you used a kil-o-watt to see that what you are saying is correct? Yours stay rock-solid on a single wattage reading? Mine don't. The reading on mine at the wall goes up & down in direct correlation with the variance...   and when I had them on a "Shared circuit"  it was terribly obvious the other things going on were effecting it when the kil-o-watt dropped when other things were used in the house, like microwave oven, coffee pot, toaster, aircon, etc....   That's just my observations here, which is why I say that.
You can even watch bertmod to verify what I'm saying.... the vrm output goes up & down with hashrate as well
My VRM's are  outputting a FULL 12v, @ 50amps now btw... and if I said how...Edgar would complain.... but it has to do with temps and clean, unwavering, unlimited power....

Variance is caused by luck.
Spikes (both up and down) in your apparent hashrate can (and do) happen based on sheer luck.  Your miner could, say, generate 10 diff 256 shares in 10 hashes, and it will look to the pool like your hashrate is much higher than it really is, briefly.  The converse is also true.

One thing that could possibly explain your observation though is the enabling and disabling of cores - that would affect both your hashrate and the current draw, I imagine, but it seems like the difference would be pretty small unless a number of cores get enabled/disabled at once.  Each core is only 1/192 of one modules hashpower and probably an even smaller fraction of it's current requirements.


okay...I'm just dreaming, which is why I can get 143GH+ from every single board, even those with the "Die 0" problem.


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xyzzy099
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November 25, 2013, 06:56:41 PM
 #23217

yep, ouch. single rails provide much cleaner power and are able to supply the extra amperage during the spikes in hashrate... and two 1500watt supplies on a 20 amp circuit is not so good either...(20 amps x 110v = 2200 watt max per 20 amp circuit, (or in EU...220v x 10amp = 2200watt)and you are saying there is more than two jupiters on that circuit?....I really think it's your power situation now for sure...

I think these 'spikes in hashrate' you see is just variance.  The chips run at a constant speed.

Variance does not cause your miner to draw more or less current.
Okay spikes are variance....?  yes... and what causes that variance?...who knows...have you used a kil-o-watt to see that what you are saying is correct? Yours stay rock-solid on a single wattage reading? Mine don't. The reading on mine at the wall goes up & down in direct correlation with the variance...   and when I had them on a "Shared circuit"  it was terribly obvious the other things going on were effecting it when the kil-o-watt dropped when other things were used in the house, like microwave oven, coffee pot, toaster, aircon, etc....   That's just my observations here, which is why I say that.
You can even watch bertmod to verify what I'm saying.... the vrm output goes up & down with hashrate as well
My VRM's are  outputting a FULL 12v, @ 50amps now btw... and if I said how...Edgar would complain.... but it has to do with temps and clean, unwavering, unlimited power....

Variance is caused by luck.
Spikes (both up and down) in your apparent hashrate can (and do) happen based on sheer luck.  Your miner could, say, generate 10 diff 256 shares in 10 hashes, and it will look to the pool like your hashrate is much higher than it really is, briefly.  The converse is also true.

One thing that could possibly explain your observation though is the enabling and disabling of cores - that would affect both your hashrate and the current draw, I imagine, but it seems like the difference would be pretty small unless a number of cores get enabled/disabled at once.  Each core is only 1/192 of one modules hashpower and probably an even smaller fraction of it's current requirements.


okay...I'm just dreaming, which is why I can get 143GH+ from every single board, even those with the "Die 0" problem.

I don't understand that response.

How is this related to hash-rate spikes being caused by variance?

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arlekyn13
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November 25, 2013, 06:56:48 PM
 #23218

What I tried to underline is that:
a) I have no idea what caused my Saturns problems, my Jupiter running on the same line and same PSU type was not affected
b) The Saturns came with all boards affected by die #0 issue, (same as my Jupiter), they are running with die #0 off on 0.98
c) Both Saturns ran pretty well on 0.98.1 beta, one of them easily powering all dies, the other required more heat and was really hard to keep all dies powered on
d) Once 0.99 was released, i switched all my machines to it and for a day or two, they were running the same as on 0.98.1 beta
e) All of a sudden, both Saturns became affected with disabled cores, but in a different way: one of them simply has all cores disabled at startup (and keeps them like that) on 0.98.1 beta or official and 0.99. The other one starts normally, but after a while almost all cores on the same ASIC (coincidence?), the lower one on the web interface, gets disabled, only 0-5 cores remaining enabled on each die. Again, disabled cores are present on just one ASIC, the lower one in the web interface page.
This started at a day or 2 after 0.99 and the problem remained even after hard reset and affecting 0.98.1 as well, beta or official.
f) Both Saturns run normally (with their die #0 issue) on 0.98

My guess was that 0.99 FW somehow caused this issue, but it just persists now on 0.98.1 as well.

1CmrswU7JYpi9WNC8EHWCV3aam1FJsW2Zu - to show appreciation for my work
Phoenix1969
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November 25, 2013, 07:05:03 PM
 #23219

What I tried to underline is that:
a) I have no idea what caused my Saturns problems, my Jupiter running on the same line and same PSU type was not affected
b) The Saturns came with all boards affected by die #0 issue, (same as my Jupiter), they are running with die #0 off on 0.98
c) Both Saturns ran pretty well on 0.98.1 beta, one of them easily powering all dies, the other required more heat and was really hard to keep all dies powered on
d) Once 0.99 was released, i switched all my machines to it and for a day or two, they were running the same as on 0.98.1 beta
e) All of a sudden, both Saturns became affected with disabled cores, but in a different way: one of them simply has all cores disabled at startup (and keeps them like that) on 0.98.1 beta or official and 0.99. The other one starts normally, but after a while almost all cores on the same ASIC (coincidence?), the lower one on the web interface, gets disabled, only 0-5 cores remaining enabled on each die. Again, disabled cores are present on just one ASIC, the upper one in the web interface page.
This started at a day or 2 after 0.99 and the problem remained even after hard reset and affecting 0.98.1 as well, beta or official.
f) Both Saturns run normally (with their die #0 issue) on 0.98

My guess was that 0.99 FW somehow caused this issue, but it just persists now on 0.98.1 as well.
Hmm, that is indeed strange, and I had a similar incident...  which is why I stay on the beta.... I had to reboot/reflash one of the machines a few times...
I 'm clueless on the actual problem, but as I stated yesterday, that very same machine/hashing board was fixed in a "desperation move" that I can't recommend...
It hasn't acted up in over 12 hours now so far.... (The tower grab incident)
but...
one of the other main techniques I employ, is keeping the temps to a specific "Sweetspot" which also seems to help stability, and help avoid the"Dwindledown"(also linked to mem issue)The "Spot" is also  in a tight 5 degree range. Moreover, a board with troubles is likely to stay fully operational for longer periods, with a lower error rate.
I probably shouldn't mention this, but I've moved my target temps even higher on every board, which is how I achieved a full 12v & 50amp on almost every vrm, on every single board, which I agree...doesn't really make sense, but it is what it is...  discovered it fiddling with the Die0, or bad/unop vrm, whichever you deem it. The board with the "Dead vrm" became the best one when I accidentally reached 80C a certain temp on that board. I thought that it may be specific to that board, but decided to try to duplicate it on the other boards, on that machine, to see if the behaved the same way....they did....so I did them all. And before Edgar someone starts screaming I'm giving "Bad advice", stop right there... I'm NOT giving advice here. I'm simply telling you what I'm doing, and what the results are.

I wonder if There's a way I could get ahold of some of the "Bad" boards... RMA'd ones.... to try this on....  but I doubt it...they probably repair them...lol


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jxz
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November 25, 2013, 07:16:10 PM
 #23220

A question for those with November orders.   When I log in to the knc site, on my common information tab, it shows my customer group as "Upgrade Modules".   Is this how it reads for everything or is something on my account screwed up?

Edit to add: My order still is listed as paid status, I'm in the 106XX range.
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