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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3008898 times)
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February 08, 2014, 08:10:52 PM
 #29681

I like comparisons but I'm not sure this is valid.  Can the question why don't bitcoin mining gear manufacturers mine for themselves, be compared to pharmaceutical companies asking why cure herpes when they can profit from treating the many diseases that result from herpes family viri?  Nah, I don't like it.  The comparison brings in unrelated elements from fields afar that are too complex.



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February 08, 2014, 08:42:21 PM
 #29682

What's the electricity rate in Boden?

iCEBREAKER is a troll! He and cypherdoc helped HashFast scam 50 Million $ from its customers !
H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
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February 08, 2014, 09:26:21 PM
 #29683

Extra "Plan B" hashrate for customers won't mean much if they wait until after Q2 to give it to us.

Now if they give it to us the moment the mega center is complete, then KnC is officially the best company out there hands down.

Hopefully it is turned on in the order the various batches were sold.

Unless they have fabbed out the new 28nm chips already.  Then there's no chance of giving us the hashrate by mid-April.  Which is when it needs to come online to ROI in bitcoin at current average difficulty growth.  Also, I wonder if they'll be using a new IC design for these new 28nm chips.  If so and it's more efficient than the old design.  Then why don't they offer us to take delivery of the equivalent hashrate with the new 28nm chips.  Instead of waiting for the 20nm chips.  Just ship us the racks that they'll be hosting I say.  If they design new more efficient 28nm chips and boards.
They were making over 800 boards a day (shipping 200 Jupiters a day @ 650+Gh/s each)during November... 3.6 peta(3 batches of 1200) by April or June (end of q2) isn't a problem.  
With those numbers... 650 Gh/s x 200/ day is 130Th/s a day....  they could have the entire 3.6 peta-hash whipped out in 28 days, based on OLD numbers.

No problem there... The challenge is.... can the data center be erected in time?... probably not... But with the current facility, and a couple smaller temps.... It could be done.... BUT   They need to have already started, and not wait until they "know for sure" Neptune is going to be late to dinner.... (Which we all know, they DO know, or the news and announcement would have never been given.)
So..... why not?....  they could be leasing any number of buildings, and have not shared any details... 15 mil profit made from Jupiter means they don't even need to touch Neptune money to do it. So all this conjecture and FUD is simply from fear....  and calculation!.... but wait!!! Calculation based on what?  Nobody knows what the offer is, or when.  It could be 5 th/s hosted beginning in April hosted for a year or until Neptune ships... The simple fact is we don't know! We made boo-coo from the Jupiter...and they are still pumpin'  (Some miners better than others)so give them a chance....  they are honoring refunds, and you will kick yourself in the ass if the offer is a good one, and you bailed already.... especially if you've been cashing out your coin as you made it, or on high-points.. and coin goes to 2 grand or above.... and calculating profit based on BTC return is ludicrous, because no calculator can show us ROI in BTC on ANY miner ANYWHERE, anytime soon.  Just sayin'    Either way... whatever you decide... Good luck.

My wellbeing or economy is not tied to btc anyway. Its hobby.

Its evident now KNC is months away from delivering and eaven myself i got some TH/s rolling with Avalon chips now. Bitmain antminers coming... 3-4TH/s is my target and i make it before KNC ships out anything....seems like KNC is in trouble but what good can this mega hashing centre bring to the bitcoinworld cmon 50% network hash rolled out at once. Its still 3600 coins per day.

Fair to say none knows whats gonna happen to bitcoin in next 2-3 months but to sustain this all cumulative expectations or ROI bitcoin need few Billions of $$$ flowing in to payoff all the new hardwares.. ppl seem to froget ROI and price gainis only paid off with new fiat money flowing in to bitcoin network... what happens if fiat money income wont meet the hardware flow... we might have 200$ bitcoin by the time KNC ships out... i am gonna be at right path..

Expectations of 30% difficulty hops every change and to keep BTC price steady needs Fiat money flowing in.

So many ppl in here are in gold fever expecting only profits and $$$  Roll Eyes some will suffer.

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February 09, 2014, 04:12:39 AM
 #29684

Be nice if they developed and offered only to pre-existing customers 20nm single-module devices, all for the good of diversified bitcoin mining of course.



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February 09, 2014, 04:45:57 AM
 #29685

I hope nobody here expects them to stop making equipment?  Because it's "Not good for the community"?
Uuuhh... We're not talking about a non-profit organization here,so that's not going to happen.
It's a "Dog eat Dog" world out there.... and Bitcoin ASICs are TOP DOG right now, and KNC is arguably TOP DOG of the yard.
Don't expect them to stop making records, because they aim to stay on top like any other would, and I'm at least 100% certain that they will do whatever it takes to ensure that position, within limits.
With that said... looking at the existing pre-order business model in comparison to what they could do and offer with the hosting facility... It's a no brain-er. I think it's entirely possible we may even have seen the last actual machine offered for sale for a long time, if ever.


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February 09, 2014, 06:03:37 AM
 #29686

I hope nobody here expects them to stop making equipment?  Because it's "Not good for the community"?
Uuuhh... We're not talking about a non-profit organization here,so that's not going to happen.
It's a "Dog eat Dog" world out there.... and Bitcoin ASICs are TOP DOG right now, and KNC is arguably TOP DOG of the yard.
Don't expect them to stop making records, because they aim to stay on top like any other would, and I'm at least 100% certain that they will do whatever it takes to ensure that position, within limits.
With that said... looking at the existing pre-order business model in comparison to what they could do and offer with the hosting facility... It's a no brain-er. I think it's entirely possible we may even have seen the last actual machine offered for sale for a long time, if ever.


that's the issue even if what they say is legit...and that they are trying to stop the flow of Neptune orders being cancelled in case they are late..they are seeing the same difficulty rise we see coming...dump of equip...maybe even large unknown farms springing up they have rumors of.....but again I expected this kinda thing in fall with 20mm neptunes in any cloud hosting farm (more efficient....more time to do it less drama ) why the big rush to make such a farm now? I suspect knc has better numbers on private farms etc then we have hitting the market and probably a better idea on competitors dumping equip as well...and decided they needed to pull the trigger now even if it was using the less then optimal 28mm units in their farm.....and it was jump on the cloud hosting farm idea (ie be the biggest) or watch the boat sail away...

that brings me to the point of even if all they say is legit and on the up and up...they get me a virtual miner....for a bit or longer or they get me a refund or they get me the physical miner..if they are gonna mine to be come the largest cloud hosting firm (even say their prices are fair) and any refund of neptunes  will be no big deal will just go in to the farm....if they stick with the 5% limit on mining (knc that is) ie letter of the intent....of what they make ......they still are gonna sell the other 95% part of the worlds largest cloud hosting farm...ie my 3TH is looking like virtual or physical is gonna be road kill...heck at this rate even if in a reasonable time frame.....again this is from best light viewpoint knc is on the up and up.

my concern in all this is virtual miner physical miner..er is the same in that ...the difficulty is gonna go up sooooo much faster because of knc (known attempt as worlds largest cloud miner) and others I don't know about who maybe lit a fire under knc's butt to do this NOW with 28mm machines ie asap...rather then wait after Neptune is shipped say in summer or fall

if I get either type of miner even with virtual miner free hosting for 6months and or physical miner on time

I am so much ROAD KILL for the price I paid vs the difficulty I can expect from all these elephant's doing the hokey pokey in the ice fields of cloud hosting farms in Sweden/Iceland etc

I be squished

that does not look good even from the direction of knc is on the up and up in all this.....quite the rush imho...why now ..why the urge to screw up your equip timeline
why the muddying of the waters with cloud hosting...why this sudden need for 'speed' ..ie they see a difficulty sh*t storm coming imho and are in full gale warning mode..

anyway again looks bad even if they honestly are trying to cover their butt our butt and hedge with cloud hosting all at the same time

seems to be a lot of ducking going on......but who/what and how much incoming artillery of difficulty are they (or we) hunkering down for?

too much drama

anyway my 2c worth from the 'best light' point of view...add plots and sub plots and it looks even more dire

still think  I'm gonna punt..how long can I hold out?...hmmmmm another question? I just know as soon as I get a refund they will reward virtual miners for waiting with 6Th or some other kind of unexpected kudos......(unlikely in fact ...likely with my luck)

as usual I know zip just angles on this hodge podge that is the future of my neputune(s)

Searing

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February 09, 2014, 06:06:40 AM
 #29687

[rambling]

So after your Neptune(s) and Jupiters are worthless, can KnC count on you being a cloudhashing customer?
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February 09, 2014, 06:19:16 AM
 #29688

[rambling]

So after your Neptune(s) and Jupiters are worthless, can KnC count on you being a cloudhashing customer?

yeah even if they really are looking out for the customer as they claim.....if what they are planning to do they think they need to
do to survive (ie being an equip mnfg alone an't viable no more) ...again even if their motives are 'pure' ....is see many others doing
the same kinda cloud hosting farms under the radar..so..it is gonna be an arms race of epic proportions imho

that is their bet.....they gotta go that way.....if they are legit they are trying to bring the customer(s) along too if they wish
to come..ie physical equipment either won't fly or be here on time or will be toast in some manner..bring the minons along
as a nice gesture.....

the flip side is they are just gonna do it and screw us we can come along and be a cloud hosting customer or not....

the only thing that KNC does have going for it is they do give us a choice of the (3) refund (2) virtual miner 3TH or (1) physical miner *supposedly*

I am still waiting on my pre-order upgrade to monarch equip from BFL no refund still have nothing from last April
and those at BFL are putting the finishing touches on their cloud hosting farm filled with monarch 600gh cards I 'loaned' them $$$
to make from last spring..ie they funded their gh farm for free and I got zip.....

could be worse I guess at least KNC is nice enough to light up the "EXIT" sign....and have lifeboats if mining is sinking...

again even best case scenario it don't look too rosy and not I'm not big on being a cloud hashing customer if everyone is making
giant cloud hosting farms and kNC feels the need to be the biggest and baddest and they also can make the equip at cost and fast
to be the biggest and baddest.....that is  a cloud hosting race/scenario minons like myself will not be able to keep up with imho.

again I be squished...too many dancing elephants.....

how I see it now trying to see it in the best light again add darker motives it looks even worse....

Searing


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Phoenix1969
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February 09, 2014, 09:24:31 AM
 #29689

[rambling]

So after your Neptune(s) and Jupiters are worthless, can KnC count on you being a cloudhashing customer?
if the offer is looking good, sure, but I doubt it... we aren't quite 1/2 way into q1, and the competition has only just begun to deliver...
It would need be a mighty good deal, but I wouldn't be saying this if btc went to 5 grand next month either.
That question really can't be answered until the time comes.... TIME.


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McKinley
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February 09, 2014, 02:48:23 PM
 #29690


Its like they are saying:
"if you bought an upgradeable Mercury and you didn't get modules when we sold them for 7 minutes last year, well screw you!"

...
Upgradability would have been perfect. But since they announced the modules a few hours before they went to sale i read the news after they were already sold out. Since then i set up my phone with a big sounding alarm for any KNC news, but nothing any more.
Tomorow i'll be away for a week. I bet that will be the time when something is happening.

btw, my theory on what happened:
As written here, KNC didn't put any 28nm for themselves and didn't sell any. So their supply chain is broken. Considering that they want to stay in business this can mean there was some major fuckup. And if you have fuckups and a reputation to hold on to, admitting it is honest, but not exactly your best PR strategy.
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February 09, 2014, 03:24:59 PM
 #29691

[rambling]

So after your Neptune(s) and Jupiters are worthless, can KnC count on you being a cloudhashing customer?
if the offer is looking good, sure, but I doubt it... we aren't quite 1/2 way into q1, and the competition has only just begun to deliver...
It would need be a mighty good deal, but I wouldn't be saying this if btc went to 5 grand next month either.
That question really can't be answered until the time comes.... TIME.

$5000 btc?  Well, the world at large saw bitcoin in 2013.  Governments saw their fiat dumped into bitcoin when there was trouble at home.  Lets say for the sake of argument that a nation's banks own that government.  That example of FDIC, created in 1933 to give individuals confidence to take any fiat out from under the matress and trust banks and savings accounts again, that after the crash of 1929 and the great depression of 1930, and then more recently President Bush's people having the laws changed that certain risky instruments get paid off by FDIC first before individuals in the case of a bank failing (likely leaving nothing to pay out to individuals), makes me think that if he could have had a law put on the books making it a legal requirement that the wealthy remain wealthy and the poor remain poor, he would have.  In that light, since we are supposing that banks own their governments, and since there is a flow of that government's fiat into bitcoin when there's trouble, governments will make it illegal to buy bitcoin, e.g. Russia yesterday.  So, how can a bitcoin ever be worth 173,850 rubles ($5000)?



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WastedLTC
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February 09, 2014, 03:25:45 PM
 #29692

I'm holding my neptune orders....     no reason to cancel right now.    btc hits $250 then maybe  Smiley

I see plan b as a step in the right direction and the news shows how much faith they have in BTC, they could have sit back and pumped out 28nm chips to customers watching the money flow in and not invest anymore time and money into BTC infrastructure.   Its a gamble for them to do that where pumping out chips was a sure thing.


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February 09, 2014, 05:07:40 PM
 #29693

$5000 BTC?

Sure $5000 to buy and $500 to sell if Coinbase has their way...

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February 09, 2014, 05:23:05 PM
 #29694

I'm holding my neptune orders....     no reason to cancel right now.    btc hits $250 then maybe  Smiley

I see plan b as a step in the right direction and the news shows how much faith they have in BTC, they could have sit back and pumped out 28nm chips to customers watching the money flow in and not invest anymore time and money into BTC infrastructure.   Its a gamble for them to do that where pumping out chips was a sure thing.

Fundamentally, I don't think centralising a decentralised currency is a step in the right direction. I'd say the exact opposite.

It would be have been much better if knc shipped millions of machines out to miners all over the world, spreading the hashing far and wide, so no country has too much power to sway the currency.

KNC might be giving the Swedish government the power to do major damage to the bitcoin, if they see fit. Which is terrible. If knc are so clever, they already know this. Which means they are only in it for the short term gain, pump and dump, which again, is not a step in the right direction. It's terrible and damaging to bitcoin.

"I am not The Avenger"
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February 09, 2014, 05:48:28 PM
 #29695


 so no country has too much power to sway the currency.


the exchanges are in a far more leveraged position to sway the currency than any mining group even if they were mining all 3600 coins each day

~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~Play Boardgames for Bitcoins!!~~BTC~~GAMBIT~~BTC~~ Something I say help? Donate BTC! 1KN1K1xStzsgfYxdArSX4PEjFfcLEuYhid
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February 09, 2014, 06:49:09 PM
 #29696

I am new to mining and ordered a Neptune but I have a feeling that we might just get our money back by mining with this machine if we are lucky.

I don't like KNC opening their data center but if you listen to them they said that Neptune would be the last machine sold to retail customers due to home power requirements and that the next generation machines would be hosted. I would have liked to hear about the data center after Neptune Product or if they feel like Neptune is delayed they should have given us the option to switch over to jupiter machines now and sell us the equivalent hashing power, don't mind having 5-6 Jupiter machines now and don't mind paying the difference.

Another option I would have liked is, have KNC offer  Jupiter Machines only to Neptune buyers with agreement that the Neptune Buyers would NOT ask for refunds for their Neptune Machine.

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February 09, 2014, 08:06:03 PM
 #29697

Fundamentally, I don't think centralising a decentralised currency is a step in the right direction. I'd say the exact opposite.

It would be have been much better if knc shipped millions of machines out to miners all over the world, spreading the hashing far and wide, so no country has too much power to sway the currency.

Where the machine is hosted doesn't matter...  Selecting the appropriate pool will decentralize BTC mining.






 
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February 09, 2014, 08:17:22 PM
 #29698

If not these week knc does not have news for upgraded module

They do not have never
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February 09, 2014, 08:55:22 PM
 #29699

Fundamentally, I don't think centralising a decentralised currency is a step in the right direction. I'd say the exact opposite.

It would be have been much better if knc shipped millions of machines out to miners all over the world, spreading the hashing far and wide, so no country has too much power to sway the currency.

Where the machine is hosted doesn't matter...  Selecting the appropriate pool will decentralize BTC mining.






 

Exactly what is a 51% attack and  how does it win?  Say two major isolated pools evolve and one pulls the plug on the other.  The remaining major pool now having >51% share of the mining could fork to what kind of advantage?



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February 09, 2014, 09:41:30 PM
 #29700

Fundamentally, I don't think centralising a decentralised currency is a step in the right direction. I'd say the exact opposite.

It would be have been much better if knc shipped millions of machines out to miners all over the world, spreading the hashing far and wide, so no country has too much power to sway the currency.

Where the machine is hosted doesn't matter...  Selecting the appropriate pool will decentralize BTC mining.






 

Exactly what is a 51% attack and  how does it win?  Say two major isolated pools evolve and one pulls the plug on the other.  The remaining major pool now having >51% share of the mining could fork to what kind of advantage?

This is just noise but here you go - http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bitcoin+51%25+attack

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