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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3009294 times)
vesperwillow
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February 14, 2014, 08:09:11 PM
 #30001


Dude, if I manufactured the first 28nm ASIC my farm would have started in October.  It's the way it's going face it.  If you don't like it, go build a GPU rig and mine Vertcoin or Maxcoin - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TecR_5-rQ4U

I absolutely agree with you, which is why I said back in October how we were entering the last few months of it being reasonable for folks to mine at home.. as it was shifting toward centrally-hosted facilities due to power consumption, or to regions where power isn't an issue. The writing's been on the wall. No need to be facetious lol.

I love my KNC Mercury, I've had it since the first of Decembet, it's run non-stop, without so much as being powered down. Got it for half MSRP, so I loved it even more for that. If I can get any deals like that on equipment in the future, I'd love to get it.

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February 14, 2014, 08:19:07 PM
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That was the type of response I was hoping for. I don't mind adverse thoughts to my own, I just wish those thoughts be explained is all. I'd like to expound further on some points, but I think you and I can agree there isn't much more to throw on the table to debate.

I'll close my dribblings with;
I didn't miss the part of ROI ..I'm just saying I don't think an affordable service has anything to do with regard to speculative profits from said investment. Not saying it makes it a wise investment ..some block erupters were "affordable", but not necessarily profitable.

You and others have seen patterns in KnC's behaviors, and I can appreciate drawing conclusions based on the evidence at hand. However, I still hold that it still does not PROVE beyond any reasonable doubt those conclusions are to be taken as fact. I was originally asking for more objectivity to consider plausible alternative circumstances and for less bounding to highly damning accusations ..without fully verified facts of impossible to know conditions.

I understand as well that according to the math done in the thread, figures have come up to a 5.5Th as a best case scenario. However, that is also taking the understanding that all prior, known inputs are the same -that KnC won't change some factors based on previous activity (# of chips for example) Agreed -the primary limiting factor is power, but that remains a larger concern for US miners than other parts of the world. Doesn't necessarily mean they couldn't hit higher figures with larger available power.

I have no problem with the stance you, or Avenger take, to be clear. What I don't like is being so entirely staunch in one idea that any other ideas become impossible to consider, pouncing on anyone that proposes an opposing thought and taking every cheap and sometimes baseless pot shot you can (not saying you particularly).

Definitely can agree with your stance and response.

I really do appreciate the response you've given me.

NP, it's refreshing to see more thinkers in here. The hopeful side of me wants to be proven wrong on all accounts regarding KNC. We shall see!

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February 14, 2014, 08:40:59 PM
 #30003

The hopeful side of me wants to be proven wrong on all accounts regarding KNC. We shall see!

Now, having gone through all that, I'll concede that my outlook is rather pessimistic in regard to Neptune. Haha

However, being quite pleased with my current position without a miner or further returns from one, I'm so far willing to pay to take this riskier gamble -knowing I may see a loss with my order. Although, I have to consider the return I was able to make from my Jupiter having mined 65-75% of its lifetime mining profits, and still sell for an absurd amount of money and rolling back into BTC. Putting me far above what I "invested" into Jupiter. If Neptune is to exercise longevity in the mining game, and potentially becoming one of the very last few powerful home based miners ..there could be a market willing to pay a very nice premium for such a machine even after mining for a period ..or, there could be no market.

We shall see indeed.
The Avenger
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February 14, 2014, 08:53:09 PM
 #30004

What I don't like is being so entirely staunch in one idea that any other ideas become impossible to consider

Last year I said we knc customers should be treated like shareholders in their company, as we had given knc the money to exist.

And that if your shareholders asked you for an update, you wouldn't ignore that request. During September and October, knc ignored us completely - for weeks on end.

I thought their attitude to customers was woeful, especially us October batch people who paid a massive premium for their products - who took a chance on a company who begged us to take a chance on them and promised to "never forget the help you have given us" etc.

That "never forget the help" attitude all changed when they shipped.

Their whole attitude became contempful and greedy. They seemed to hate their customers. They were shipping fault goods and making customers keep them as long as they were achieving 400GH (what was originally promised), while pretending they were over-delivering. Late and faulty and exactly what you paid for is not over-delivering. They did the absolute bare minimum to meet their obligations to customers and made it impossible to do anything about faulty goods without losing even more earnings.

I was on everyone's ignore list for saying knc were greedy and contemptful to customers in October/November. I suggested it was a bad idea to buy into Neptune (or knobtune, as some of you may remember my "pet" name for it), as it was plain knc felt no obligations to anyone but their own bank account now. Lot's of bells started ringing when they were suggesting they were making massive progress, like a 20nm project was something they could do without too much hassle, while the rest of the world was still trying to get to grips with it.

I maintained my stance about them, when pretty much everyone was again me and telling me to get lost and hurling abuse at me.

After all that, you think I should give knc the benefit of the doubt? Forget it. I could see they were greedy assholes and it's being proven again and again over the last few weeks.

If knc disagree with anything I say on here, I'm more than happy for their company representative to come on here and respectfully clarify what's going on.

In fact, I asked their Director of Communcations at least 3 or 4 times the day the "Plan B" newsletter was released to face us and answer everybodies questions. He refused. The only post he made was in the maxcoin thread. He logged in for another three days, then his account went dormant (as I said it would).

So once again, this is complete comtempt from knc and their representatives. How disrespectful to completely ignore your customers after that kind of bombshell?? Maybe he'll come back after a week, when he's had a chance to think up some excuses or lies. Maybe not.

Knc know they f#@ked everyone over and now are just looking for an entirely new customer base of cloud hashing customers (and noobs to pay for "neptune" - the name of their 6 month 3TH cloud hashing contract). They think their neptune customers are fucking idiots who can't see how they are being f#@ked over. And they offer pathetic little bs titbits for people to read into, like today's "we are getting closer to the launch date of Neptune", which says nothing but promises lot's if you read into it. And all the gamblers will be thinking "I know better than anyone else - I'll go for it" and will hand over their cash.

Naw, I'm not giving that bullshit the benefit of the doubt.

If I'm wrong and they don't mine a single bitcoin out of the datacentre until April and they deliver knobtune in April, I'll apologise to whomever I've offended.

But as far as I'm concerned - and I'm pretty much unwavering on this, having got faulty goods from them and contemptful service - knc are a bunch of greedy assholes, with total contempt for customers, who see customers as idiots and only tolerate them to take cash out of their stupid hands.

I'll stick to that opinion and I'll debate anyone telling me how great knc are. And I'll ignore people like you, for starting pretty much all your posts with a slight or insult directed at me. You expect to throw bs at me and then expect me to engage you on a respectful level? Please.

"I am not The Avenger"
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ncs0ne
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February 14, 2014, 09:03:28 PM
 #30005

Called customer support this afternoon and told them that Plan B sounds nice in general, but the question is "when is Neptune considered to be late?".

All I got as answer was actually a lot of words saying nothing.
First I was told they are on track, plan A is the one they focus on and that Neptune is scheduled for delivery in Q1/Q2 and Q2 (depending on the batch) as well as that everything is on track therefore there are no details available regarding plan B.

So I expressed my self more clearly that Q1/Q2 or Q2 would mean Q3, on July 1st, Neptune will be considered late?
Answer was that there's currently no decision regarding "when Neptune will be considered late", since they are still on track with plan A. And as soon as there would be a decision, it will be announced publicly on their website.

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February 14, 2014, 09:04:09 PM
 #30006

Their whole attitude became contempful and greedy. They seemed to hate their customers.  disrespectful to completely ignore your customers after that kind of bombshell??

didn't people make  80-100 coins on October Jupiters? I have no idea what are your facts.

They know they f#@ked everyone over and now are just looking for an entirely new customer base of cloud hashing customers (and noobs to pay for their neptune, the name of their 6 month 3TH cloud hashing contract). They think their neptune customers are fucking idiots who can't see how they are being f#@ked over.

We don't know details of their offer. Before that it is not possible to judge. Any company in this business that does not allow customers to profit will NOT be successful.
I envision all kinds of possibilities with plan B, but i would refrain for now while KnC figures it out (don't want to give them some "bad" ideas).
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February 14, 2014, 09:07:47 PM
 #30007

What I don't like is being so entirely staunch in one idea that any other ideas become impossible to consider

Last year I said we knc customers should be treated like shareholders in their company, as we had given knc the money to exist.

And that if your shareholders asked you for an update, you wouldn't ignore that request. During September and October, knc ignored us completely - for weeks on end.

I thought their attitude to customers was woeful, especially us October batch people who paid a massive premium for their products - who took a chance on a company who begged us to take a chance on them and promised to "never forget the help you have given us" etc.

That "never forget the help" attitude all changed when they shipped.

Their whole attitude became contempful and greedy. They seemed to hate their customers. They were shipping fault goods and making customers keep them as long as they were achieving 400GH (what was originally promised), while pretending they were over-delivering. Late and faulty and exactly what you paid for is not over-delivering. They did the absolute bare minimum to meet their obligations to customers and made it impossible to do anything about faulty goods without losing even more earnings.

I was on everyone's ignore list for saying knc were greedy and contemptful to customers in October/November. I suggested it was a bad idea to buy into Neptune (or knobtune, as some of you may remember my "pet" name for it), as it was plain knc felt no obligations to anyone but their own bank account now. Lot's of bells started ringing when they were suggesting they were making massive progress, like a 20nm project was something they could do without too much hassle, while the rest of the world was still trying to get to grips with it.

I maintained my stance about them, when pretty much everyone was again me and telling me to get lost and hurling abuse at me.

After all that, you think I should give knc the benefit of the doubt? Forget it. I could see they were greedy assholes and it's being proven again and again over the last few weeks.

If knc disagree with anything I say on here, I'm more than happy for their company representative to come on here and respectfully clarify what's going on.

In fact, I asked their Director of Communcations at least 3 or 4 times the day the "Plan B" newsletter was released to face us and answer everybodies questions. He refused. The only post he made was in the maxcoin thread. He logged in for another three days, then his account went dormant (as I said it would).

So once again, this is complete comtempt from knc and their representatives. How disrespectful to completely ignore your customers after that kind of bombshell?? Maybe he'll come back after a week, when he's had a chance to think up some excuses or lies. Maybe not.

Knc know they f#@ked everyone over and now are just looking for an entirely new customer base of cloud hashing customers (and noobs to pay for "neptune" - the name of their 6 month 3TH cloud hashing contract). They think their neptune customers are fucking idiots who can't see how they are being f#@ked over. And they offer pathetic little bs titbits for people to read into, like today's "we are getting closer to the launch date of Neptune", which says nothing but promises lot's if you read into it. And all the gamblers will be thinking "I know better than anyone else - I'll go for it" and will hand over their cash.

Naw, I'm not giving that bullshit the benefit of the doubt.

If I'm wrong and they don't mine a single bitcoin out of the datacentre until April and they deliver knobtune in April, I'll apologise to whomever I've offended.

But as far as I'm concerned - and I'm pretty much unwavering on this, having got faulty goods from them and contemptful service - knc are a bunch of greedy assholes, with total contempt for customers, who see customers as idiots and only tolerate them to take cash out of their stupid hands.

I'll stick to that opinion and I'll debate anyone telling me how great knc are. And I'll ignore people like you, for starting pretty much all your posts with a slight or insult directed at me. You expect to throw bs at me and then expect me to engage you on a respectful level? Please.

The current state of affairs pretty much to the letter.  Fuck KnC for this detestable bullshit.
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February 14, 2014, 09:10:38 PM
 #30008

Their whole attitude became contempful and greedy. They seemed to hate their customers.  disrespectful to completely ignore your customers after that kind of bombshell??

didn't people make  80-100 coins on October Jupiters? I have no idea what are your facts.
(...)
80 coins or even more?

For sure not with a Jupiter (4 boards and no overclocking) - except maybe with selling their miners at the peak and buying btc with that money afterwards when it crashed.

At least as day2 order and running overclocked (at >700GH/s since December) I did not reach this number and if you consider electricity costs you aren't getting closer.

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February 14, 2014, 09:18:06 PM
 #30009

didn't people make  80-100 coins on October Jupiters? I have no idea what are your facts.

No. Your "facts" are total fiction.

Here are some number we came up with before. Read them and continue to criticise me, it never gets tiresome.

I received my Jupiter on Oct 7th and also bought 2 upgrade modules when they went on sale. My total cost was ~66 BTC. I've mined ~59 BTC to date with 99.9% uptime and overclocking. I agree that many will not see ROI in btc. I expect to mine another 15-20 btc with my rig (currently running at 1TH/s) before the electricity becomes too expensive, which will mean I will ROI - eventually.
Thanks for the figures. I had no idea people who took delivery as early as Oct 7th still hadn't made 70BTC yet.

Which makes me wonder exactly how many people ACTUALLY made 70BTC (i.e. 70K), as our engadget interviewee above claims?

As knc said on the 11th October that they had only produced 700 units (https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-49), so that means the amount who mined 70BTC (70K) must be only a few hundred at most. Out of 7000-9000 October units shipped, that's not too impressive.

<awaits backlash for presenting facts people don't want to hear>

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February 14, 2014, 09:21:19 PM
 #30010

http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1A73ExsM2doRwTLp82rv5U36QHbBFmHD1X

Is this KNC?  Ugh.

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February 14, 2014, 09:26:32 PM
 #30011

Another big one  Wink
http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1Nbq2XZaRsKknf5fcT2wTXvBS31PaUWSeX

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February 14, 2014, 09:32:44 PM
 #30012


This one and a previous one together are ~44% of the WHOLE network.
To me, it says that it is a combined account of a large pool, NOT KnC
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February 14, 2014, 09:35:45 PM
 #30013

Called customer support this afternoon and told them that Plan B sounds nice in general, but the question is "when is Neptune considered to be late?".

All I got as answer was actually a lot of words saying nothing.
First I was told they are on track, plan A is the one they focus on and that Neptune is scheduled for delivery in Q1/Q2 and Q2 (depending on the batch) as well as that everything is on track therefore there are no details available regarding plan B.

So I expressed my self more clearly that Q1/Q2 or Q2 would mean Q3, on July 1st, Neptune will be considered late?
Answer was that there's currently no decision regarding "when Neptune will be considered late", since they are still on track with plan A. And as soon as there would be a decision, it will be announced publicly on their website.

Wow so they are still insinuating that batch #1 could ship in Q1 despite the fact that they hadn't even taped out a few weeks ago. It's amazing that they are talking about Plan B but refuse to say what "late" exactly is. They really expect people to preorder Neptunes on blind faith with no details at all. Who needs to try and estimate ROI right?
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February 14, 2014, 09:54:18 PM
 #30014


This one and a previous one together are ~44% of the WHOLE network.
To me, it says that it is a combined account of a large pool, NOT KnC

No they're not.  Those two are ~1.8PH combined.  That's less than 10%
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February 14, 2014, 10:29:14 PM
 #30015

I'll stick to that opinion and I'll debate anyone telling me how great knc are. And I'll ignore people like you, for starting pretty much all your posts with a slight or insult directed at me. You expect to throw bs at me and then expect me to engage you on a respectful level? Please.

I'll start by saying, I actually respect you, Avenger, more than you know. My addresses to you haven't shown it and I'd even wager you wouldn't believe it. I've followed the objections and critical thoughts you've lent here since last year and they were a great & needed counter to a lot of the over exuberant KnC praise that was spilling in here. What rubbed me the wrong way was that you 1)have arguably the loudest voice here, in combination with 2) seemed to devolve from providing those objections and rational thoughts and insisted on using that voice for mud flinging and conspiracy theories -the worst of it in the last few weeks. I hated that picture of Sam, Josh & co since it was first made public -when sudden paranoid accusations became; "run for the hills, miners. All hardware players now in collusion." As if somehow posing respectfully with business competitors required that they all slept in the same bed. The dredging up of that picture set me off, and I flung an undeserved personal insult at you. I was the first to throw a low punch. For that, I am sorry.

Regarding this much more chiseled response from you, thank you. That was the type of thing I was hoping for. I understand your position, and I won't argue against your objections. You clearly felt slighted by KnC for numerous reasons and you are entitled to your position. All I'll add is that in regard to their, "We'll never forget the help of our first customers" attitude, I don't feel as detested by their actions as you as I never actually believed that in the first place. I never felt entitled to benefits nor anticipated preferential treatment despite the persona they wished to convey, because at the end of the day, KnC's primary goal (or any business for that matter) does not include you or me as the beneficiaries. Any demonstrated values any company shows is essentially a facade, a tool to further that main objective -but still one I can't hold against them.
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February 15, 2014, 12:53:36 AM
 #30016

2) seemed to devolve from providing those objections and rational thoughts and insisted on using that voice for mud flinging and conspiracy theories -the worst of it in the last few weeks
My recent comments are no more "mud flinging and conspiracy theories" than anything I've ever said previously. People just find them a little hard to swallow, until they come true  Grin

Hardly scientific proof, but

And to think at one point I suspected you were a crazy conspiracy theorists. Tuens out you were right on.

What do you have a problem with, specifically, with what I've said lately?

I speculated from a bin full of arctic cooler boxes in that video I posted that the boards in the datacentre are new and additional hashing power, not just being moved from someplace else. On a scale of 1-10, I'd say that assessement is an 8 or 9 in terms of being correct.

My read on that cloud hashing guy selling his jupiters being a sign of something happening in the cloud hashing world was correct.

And my insisting on knc only providing 3TH cloud hashing for 6 months is based on a statement made by their company director. I shoot down anyone who suggests it might be 5 or 6TH for two reasons:
1. It's already been stated by knc employee that their priority with neptune is power consumption, not time to delivery or maximising hashrate. That is totally consistent that same knc employee's statement that the future of mining is based on lowest power consumption costs. And that all fits in with their datacentre being in a place with the cheapest electricity in Europe.
2. Though they promised to over-deliver etc, knc were quite forceful insisting in October that if you paid for 400GH, then that was all you were entitled to. No debate, end of story. As Sam's statement to coindesk classified it as the "latest model, the 3TH/s Neptune miner" and "3. Convert to 3TH of hosting performance for a period". That seems quite assured it's not 6TH. And as I said in my last post, knc did the absolute bare minimum to meet their obligations to customers and I see no reason why they would suddenly change now. What a company has done in the past (i.e. what they get away with) is a very good indicator of what they will do again in the future.

Sure I'm flippant sometimes, it's fun.
Neptune customers t-shirt UPDATE:

FRONT: I gave KNC $13,000 for a Neptune

BACK: And all I got was this lousy 3TH cloud hashing contract for 6 months

Tongue

So why do those photos of Josh and Sam bug you? I mean, if knc are the virtuous company they claim to be, they could surely tell conference organisers they will not share a stage with BFL/Josh, if they truly felt that BFL were doing damage to bitcoin and taking advantage of people with their sales and delivery dates etc. And that knc are playing everything above board and legit and setting an example of how to do things right and don't want to be associated with people who might not be.

But they aren't, they know it and they are happy to sit next to Josh. Actions speak louder than words.


All I'll add is that in regard to their, "We'll never forget the help of our first customers" attitude, I don't feel as detested by their actions as you as I never actually believed that in the first place. I never felt entitled to benefits nor anticipated preferential treatment despite the persona they wished to convey, because at the end of the day, KnC's primary goal (or any business for that matter) does not include you or me as the beneficiaries. Any demonstrated values any company shows is essentially a facade, a tool to further that main objective -but still one I can't hold against them.
I guess I'm naive. I wasn't expecting preferential treatment. But for $7k+ I was expecting to be informed and treated well enough. If you buy a $200 psu off a company, they'll usually be very apologetic if they can't deliver on time and probably bombard you with updates and apologies etc. And if they then shipped you a duff one, they'd be even more apologetic and probably send you a replacement for free. Now I'm not expecting that, but knc should really have done 1000% better to the people they shipped their faulty die0 rigs to. Instead, they were like "Meh, go away". It all went downhill after that. I see no reason to give them any benefit of the doubt, they have screwed the people who gave them the chance to exist. It's akin to killing your own mother, for money. Pretty disgusting and greedy. I don't accept the argument that companies can lie through their teeth and that is acceptable. It's not. It's only a reflection of the beliefs and attitudes of the people who own the company and make the decisions.

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February 15, 2014, 02:10:14 AM
 #30017

Thanks, Syke. I appreciate the explanation. However, if KnC can achieve even .75W/Gh, at 6Th, that is sub 5000 watts. Is .75W/Gh out of the realm of plausibility?

Well, to get high efficiency, you need to run chips at a very slow speed. Getting high hashrate and high efficiency will require many chips, which makes for a very expensive option. While that is technically possible, it's naive to think KnC is going to be selling Neptunes at a loss.

Buy & Hold
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February 15, 2014, 03:32:31 AM
 #30018

Hi everybody,

We are Swedish miners that are producing our own ASIC miners to strengthen the market and avoid monopoly.
Our company kncminer is pleased to announce the opening of a brand new web shop dedicated to the online sale of Bitcoin hardware to the international community, www.kncminer.com.

A lot of scam sites are appearing every day and we are not one of them, therefore we will not take any orders and are only registering interest.

We will in the upcoming weeks opening our order book to allow the purchase of our first set of ASIC miners. They are in the early stages of development now and will be ready in the summer of 2013 (yes in just a few months)
Register an account now it’s completely free and if you subscribe to our newsletter we will alert you the moment we open the order books for entry and other information around the ASIC products.
If you have any questions we will be happy to answer them.

Happy mining


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February 15, 2014, 04:03:54 AM
 #30019

Looking at the photo, confrontation on sidewalk in Japan, the MtGox owner doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who will do seppuku.

Something is stinking very badly at MtGox.  On the 7th I e-registered my MtGox account with fincen, today on the 14th MtGox notifies me my account is flagged for AML.




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ecliptic
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February 15, 2014, 06:07:32 AM
 #30020

Is it possible to get a refund in bitcoin, still calcaulted at 10,000$?  Or does it have to be a wire transfer?
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