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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3029525 times)
xstr8guy
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March 30, 2014, 07:11:53 AM
 #31541



I hate to say that, but you can buy 1TH right now with 4-5 days delivery (5 ants with medium over clock) for $2200, or $2400 without overclock. In lieu of plunging bitcoin prices, it might or might not be a good purchase, I am just showing an example of a price war. With low bitcoin price high priced miners with multi month preorder are in trouble.
Shizzle! That's over 4Th/s for 10k shipped now...   I hope KNC has a Neptune update soon, or there may be a 3rd wave of refunds, lol


Or you could buy 3THs of immediate cloudmining from PBMining for a 5 year contract and pay about $11,000.  And you don't pay for electricity or maintenance fees.  Another awesome bonus... no noise and heat!




I don't understand - 4Thps for $10000 vs 3 Thps for $11000 ? How much do you think electricity costs will be?


I don't know about everyone else but I've reached the limit of what my house can hold, physically and electrically.  I also happen to live in a desert environment and it's starting to get pretty warm during the day.

So it's time to rid myself of my first gen gear to make room for the newer miners arriving soon.  But then, I'm back at (or above) my max capacity.  And with cloudmining suddenly becoming competetive with hardware sales, it couldn't come at a better time for me.
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March 30, 2014, 07:31:00 AM
 #31542

Holy crap everywhere I see your name pop up it's come check out pbmining ... Might finally have to open the doors to Meth Lab Mining if people want their TH/s now.  Just need to find a person who wants to post in every thread on bitcointalk and offer them a discount.  LOL!
xstr8guy
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March 30, 2014, 07:39:03 AM
 #31543

Holy crap everywhere I see your name pop up it's come check out pbmining ... Might finally have to open the doors to Meth Lab Mining if people want their TH/s now.  Just need to find a person who wants to post in every thread on bitcointalk and offer them a discount.  LOL!

Just trying to spread the word.   Smiley

Sorry if I've come off a little too evangelical.
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March 30, 2014, 07:46:00 AM
 #31544

BTW...
We all have been over the mining taxation......  straight income tax tallied daily on BTC price sounds scary to me.
Digging into the tax code... looks like capitol gains(as in buy & hold BTC) is much easier to swallow than income tax(Mining)
As a result, there will surely be less American miners soon, and pushed more towards the corporate, large farm level....uuuggh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax_in_the_United_States
Time to move to Denmark.    http://www.coindesk.com/denmark-declares-bitcoin-trades-tax-free/


There are no economic reasons for sole individuals to mine in US anymore. Straight buying and holding for more than 12 mo or longer is the most beneficial.
The rule clearly favors accumulation vs usage, hence the utility of bitcoin in transactions will be probably minimized, unless it is revised later on.
Mining as a hobby for a couple of coins can still go on unimpeded.

imho if this effects BTC for use as a currency .ie a 2009 coin at 2c has capital gains on it when you spend it vs a coin made today has none if you spend it right away before a change in worth" if that stays the same...no reason to have bitcoin as 'property" or a value base ..if you can't use it for transactions that are this cumbersome ..thus price of btc because of no reason to speculate or hoard it again cumbersome tax laws.....well down she goes the bitcoin ship that is so...is that too dire an option to consider?

or is that what the powers that be in the usa want? you could not have muddied the waters on mining and such if you tried imho


Searing


Did anyone pick up an Alpha technology order yesterday?

thought about it...but they say the alpha will be expandable so...even less reason

they have no track record..i'm cutting them a break cause i think they are legit..but man are they green

2200 buck investment what the heck something to do

Er and if the Titan at 250mh comes out in July (in what i've heard knc is shooting for ..ie they say Q2/Q3 (Q3 end of august)...and www.alpha-t.net saying
also JULY..well.....the Titan is gonna blow the doors off..you likely will still make ROI on the alpha...( i assume a lot of GPU's will fall off the grid etc) but that
will be very interesting this july 2014.


Searing



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DPoS
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March 30, 2014, 09:52:20 AM
 #31545

Holy crap everywhere I see your name pop up it's come check out pbmining ... Might finally have to open the doors to Meth Lab Mining if people want their TH/s now.  Just need to find a person who wants to post in every thread on bitcointalk and offer them a discount.  LOL!

Just trying to spread the word.   Smiley

Sorry if I've come off a little too evangelical.

cloud mining is the dumbest shit ever.  sorry if I come off a little too blunt

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March 30, 2014, 10:19:54 AM
 #31546


I don't understand - 4Thps for $10000 vs 3 Thps for $11000 ? How much do you think electricity costs will be?


I don't know about everyone else but I've reached the limit of what my house can hold, physically and electrically.  I also happen to live in a desert environment and it's starting to get pretty warm during the day.

So it's time to rid myself of my first gen gear to make room for the newer miners arriving soon.  But then, I'm back at (or above) my max capacity.  And with cloudmining suddenly becoming competetive with hardware sales, it couldn't come at a better time for me.

Think about it, 3TH for $11,000 for 5 years = 3kw * 24hr * 365 days * 5 years * 10-cent kWh = $13,140 for electricity alone = -$2,140 (loss) for PBMining?  That's not even considering the cost of Bitcoin hardware? (Wait, where did they find the money to pay for the 3TH miner if they can't even pay for electricity?)  Where is money to pay for A/C cooling (unless they are in the Arctic Circle), data center cost (or at least renting out a space), Internet, power redundancy for a large operations, administration...  Where is any evident of their rapidly growing mining operations?  Have they provide proof that they are paying people from freshly minted bitcoins and not simply transferring from new investment from new victims?   Looks and smells  like a classic ponzi to me.  You might eventually get out with your original money or even make a little bit if you are one of the first victims, but you know what happen to all ponzi eventually once they can't keep the growth rate up...

Check out the PBMining thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=484355.100


You're the third (i think) person to make their first post in this thread in defence of PBMining.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?all=;topic=100696.0

Ponzi Indicators
1. High rate of return - Tick for PBMining
2.  Provides no evidence of business activity - Tick for PBMining
3. Business activity is "speculation" - no
4. Steady rates of return - PBmining pays the theoretical rate per gh
5. Increasing demand for capital - MAJOR tick, jumped from 14th to 64 in weeks....

Unlike a regular business which has its largest demand for capital at the start, the ponzi starts off with a very small amount of capital ("refuses" deposits), and then grows rapidly.  An increasing demand for capital makes sense only if the business can show what the money is being used for.  A ponzi will need to have its capital grow at a standard rate that exceeds the withdrawals, whereas a legitimate business will have a varying rate of investment.

6. Operator hides their identity - Big tick for PBmining (I have found out who they are)
7. A Super Majority of Non-Investors view it as a Ponzi - Not sure, but certainly many people think so.
8. They advertise a "Limited Availability" tick for pbmining

I'd add 9  - offer referrals to bring in new business - and 10 - use shill accounts to pump their scheme.

They tick 6 or 7 out of 8 for the "how to spot a ponzi" thread list, and 8 or 9 out of 10 if you add my two to the list.




Gyrsur
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#BEL+++


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March 30, 2014, 10:30:14 AM
 #31547

has someone figures about max. chip temperature of Jupiter October and November batch. did Jupiters died because of to high chip temperature?
organofcorti
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Poor impulse control.


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March 30, 2014, 12:35:08 PM
 #31548


I don't understand - 4Thps for $10000 vs 3 Thps for $11000 ? How much do you think electricity costs will be?


Think about it, 3TH for $11,000 for 5 years = 3kw * 24hr * 365 days * 5 years * 10-cent kWh = $13,140 for electricity alone = -$2,140 (loss) for PBMining?  

<snip>




Yes, loss. If difficulty continues to increase by 20% per retarget, then after 6 months it will earn about 5% of what it was earning. After a year, it will earn about 0.2% of what it did on it's first day.

So you have 5 years of not paying electricity. For 4 of those you wont be earning anything significant anyway.





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Flashman
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Hodl!


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March 30, 2014, 01:28:48 PM
 #31549

So you have 5 years of not paying electricity. For 4 of those you wont be earning anything significant anyway.

Whereas with hardware in hand you'd be delighted to pay more in electricity than it was making for those 4 years? Don't bother with the "resale" argument, what's a $5000 batch 3 avalon realistically worth to a non-n00b these days, 1 year after introduction, $250? that's 95% depreciation in a year.

Anyway, there's arguments in favor of hardware in hand, and there's arguments in favor of reasonably priced mining by the gighash, and I looked into this sector and determined that pbmining would appear to be the best deal in this space at the moment. Like it or not, mining seems to be headed towards doing things in bulk quantities, "retail" pricing on power and hardware is looking barely breakeven.


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March 30, 2014, 01:42:16 PM
 #31550

So you have 5 years of not paying electricity. For 4 of those you wont be earning anything significant anyway.

Whereas with hardware in hand you'd be delighted to pay more in electricity than it was making for those 4 years? Don't bother with the "resale" argument, what's a $5000 batch 3 avalon realistically worth to a non-n00b these days, 1 year after introduction, $250? that's 95% depreciation in a year.

Anyway, there's arguments in favor of hardware in hand, and there's arguments in favor of reasonably priced mining by the gighash, and I looked into this sector and determined that pbmining would appear to be the best deal in this space at the moment. Like it or not, mining seems to be headed towards doing things in bulk quantities, "retail" pricing on power and hardware is looking barely breakeven.



i agree. miner hardware manufacturers aren't making rigs 'at-home' friendly - the target market is big buyers, and if they make a few small sales along the way, then all the better for them. I couldn't host a spondoolian-thingy-ma-bob at home, for example, they are just too damn loud.

tips    1APp826DqjJBdsAeqpEstx6Q8hD4urac8a
finbad2
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March 30, 2014, 02:40:42 PM
 #31551

I wonder at what price point USD/BTC it is just better to turn the lights off?
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March 30, 2014, 02:42:42 PM
 #31552

So you have 5 years of not paying electricity. For 4 of those you wont be earning anything significant anyway.

Whereas with hardware in hand you'd be delighted to pay more in electricity than it was making for those 4 years?


No, the hardware is most likely useless after the first year. As is the cloud mining contract.

The hardware will have earned more in that first year than the contract will earn in that first year. Since earnings after the first year are negligible the hardware also earns more in the first year than the contract for five years - for the figures given in the example.

After the first year you throw the hardware away, you don't sell it.




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March 30, 2014, 02:56:01 PM
 #31553

BTW...
We all have been over the mining taxation......  straight income tax tallied daily on BTC price sounds scary to me.
Digging into the tax code... looks like capitol gains(as in buy & hold BTC) is much easier to swallow than income tax(Mining)
As a result, there will surely be less American miners soon, and pushed more towards the corporate, large farm level....uuuggh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax_in_the_United_States
Time to move to Denmark.    http://www.coindesk.com/denmark-declares-bitcoin-trades-tax-free/


There are no economic reasons for sole individuals to mine in US anymore. Straight buying and holding for more than 12 mo or longer is the most beneficial.
The rule clearly favors accumulation vs usage, hence the utility of bitcoin in transactions will be probably minimized, unless it is revised later on.
Mining as a hobby for a couple of coins can still go on unimpeded.

Not so true for those on Social Security retirement or disability.  As a hobby one cannot deduct cost of equipment purchase or costs of running the gear but must report every btc mined as having created the asset and therefore as income.  With retirement or disability, they will require payback of 50 cents on every dollar earned up to the social security payout.  The social security description of what counts and what doesn't, doesn't seem to start at where one's income reaches a taxable level.



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tolip_wen
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March 30, 2014, 03:26:40 PM
 #31554

The KnC 28nm ASIC can run @ lower power, slower.
It will be possible to delay the (break even on power turn off date) by underclocking.

But only if you have posession of the HW.
IMneverHO

YMMV
Smiley

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March 30, 2014, 05:17:41 PM
 #31555

has someone figures about max. chip temperature of Jupiter October and November batch. did Jupiters died because of to high chip temperature?
85C is top recommended max operating temp.  I had some hit 95 and survive just fine(not recommended)
Every board I had liked 75-80 for optimum performance.
Some say chilling works, but most of them have never seen 80C on their ASIC temps. If it were a GPU...
I'd say "cool it", but a Jupiter likes it toasty on the asic.
CLEAN power was most important.....  meaning no spikes and fluctuations in the electrical feed.

also... tuning suite.... LOWER the voltages instead of raise to wake dead dies.


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RoadStress
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March 30, 2014, 05:50:43 PM
 #31556

has someone figures about max. chip temperature of Jupiter October and November batch. did Jupiters died because of to high chip temperature?
85C is top recommended max operating temp.  I had some hit 95 and survive just fine(not recommended)
Every board I had liked 75-80 for optimum performance.
Some say chilling works, but most of them have never seen 80C on their ASIC temps. If it were a GPU...
I'd say "cool it", but a Jupiter likes it toasty on the asic.
CLEAN power was most important.....  meaning no spikes and fluctuations in the electrical feed.

also... tuning suite.... LOWER the voltages instead of raise to wake dead dies.

Wait aren't the sensors placed on VRMs or on boards? 85C for a chip isn't a bit low? I've read that some chips can go up to 120-130C.

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March 30, 2014, 06:45:39 PM
 #31557

has someone figures about max. chip temperature of Jupiter October and November batch. did Jupiters died because of to high chip temperature?
85C is top recommended max operating temp.  I had some hit 95 and survive just fine(not recommended)
Every board I had liked 75-80 for optimum performance.
Some say chilling works, but most of them have never seen 80C on their ASIC temps. If it were a GPU...
I'd say "cool it", but a Jupiter likes it toasty on the asic.
CLEAN power was most important.....  meaning no spikes and fluctuations in the electrical feed.

also... tuning suite.... LOWER the voltages instead of raise to wake dead dies.

Wait aren't the sensors placed on VRMs or on boards? 85C for a chip isn't a bit low? I've read that some chips can go up to 120-130C.
probably so...but on knc's asics... When they first arrived, they told us 105C max, but now in the faq it says 95C
but that's okay when the sweetspot is 75 to 80.


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Hattifattener
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March 30, 2014, 07:01:14 PM
 #31558

Greed
noun: greed

    1.
    intense and selfish desire for something, esp. wealth, power, or food.
    synonyms:   avarice, cupidity, acquisitiveness, covetousness, rapacity...
________________

- Bitcoin (BTC,XBT) is the liberating invention to free humanity from the Basel led (BIS) criminal cabal of central banks and their minions, the spider web of bankers.
- If U the people don't know by know, they create FIAT from thin air by double entry book keeping. There is very little capital, leverage often 50:1 or more.
- Our liability to pay back is marked as their asset (if they loan people "money") and if the loan isn't paid back (non performing) we the people (taxpayers) will help the banker because our politicians are just as CORRUPT.
- There is much more to it though... The MilitaryIndustrialCorporateComplex colluding with the second oldest profession in the world i.e.politicians (U may know what the oldest is?) and bankers create all the MISERY we face.

Anyways, that FRAUD cabal and special interest groups are destroying our society because of their GREED.

SO! Is KNC et al. going to continue with mining (lining their pockets) with their operations and selling BTC for the fiat trash USD,EUR,CNY? If so, you're just as corrupt GREEDY idiots as the non productive leeching class AKA bankers.

I hope GREED is not so overwhelming as to send u on that path...

Linnaeus is Swedish and would define u as Homo Sapiens Corruptus if he was alive...

-- LUV
   




smoothrunnings
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March 30, 2014, 07:40:41 PM
 #31559

Have you every bought co-location space in your life to store your own servers? They charge you per-circuit and not for the power you use. There is at least one state in the US that has the lowest power costs out of all the other states that would be a good place for setting up cloud mining sites. There was a story recently on YouTube of a guy who setup his own mining in this state; which they wouldn't name; in a co-location, he was making 8 million a week in Bitcoin mining and was using 1mw of power. (Yes..Mega Watt)




I don't understand - 4Thps for $10000 vs 3 Thps for $11000 ? How much do you think electricity costs will be?


I don't know about everyone else but I've reached the limit of what my house can hold, physically and electrically.  I also happen to live in a desert environment and it's starting to get pretty warm during the day.

So it's time to rid myself of my first gen gear to make room for the newer miners arriving soon.  But then, I'm back at (or above) my max capacity.  And with cloudmining suddenly becoming competetive with hardware sales, it couldn't come at a better time for me.

Think about it, 3TH for $11,000 for 5 years = 3kw * 24hr * 365 days * 5 years * 10-cent kWh = $13,140 for electricity alone = -$2,140 (loss) for PBMining?  That's not even considering the cost of Bitcoin hardware? (Wait, where did they find the money to pay for the 3TH miner if they can't even pay for electricity?)  Where is money to pay for A/C cooling (unless they are in the Arctic Circle), data center cost (or at least renting out a space), Internet, power redundancy for a large operations, administration...  Where is any evident of their rapidly growing mining operations?  Have they provide proof that they are paying people from freshly minted bitcoins and not simply transferring from new investment from new victims?   Looks and smells  like a classic ponzi to me.  You might eventually get out with your original money or even make a little bit if you are one of the first victims, but you know what happen to all ponzi eventually once they can't keep the growth rate up...

Check out the PBMining thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=484355.100


You're the third (i think) person to make their first post in this thread in defence of PBMining.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?all=;topic=100696.0

Ponzi Indicators
1. High rate of return - Tick for PBMining
2.  Provides no evidence of business activity - Tick for PBMining
3. Business activity is "speculation" - no
4. Steady rates of return - PBmining pays the theoretical rate per gh
5. Increasing demand for capital - MAJOR tick, jumped from 14th to 64 in weeks....

Unlike a regular business which has its largest demand for capital at the start, the ponzi starts off with a very small amount of capital ("refuses" deposits), and then grows rapidly.  An increasing demand for capital makes sense only if the business can show what the money is being used for.  A ponzi will need to have its capital grow at a standard rate that exceeds the withdrawals, whereas a legitimate business will have a varying rate of investment.

6. Operator hides their identity - Big tick for PBmining (I have found out who they are)
7. A Super Majority of Non-Investors view it as a Ponzi - Not sure, but certainly many people think so.
8. They advertise a "Limited Availability" tick for pbmining

I'd add 9  - offer referrals to bring in new business - and 10 - use shill accounts to pump their scheme.

They tick 6 or 7 out of 8 for the "how to spot a ponzi" thread list, and 8 or 9 out of 10 if you add my two to the list.




Phoenix1969
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March 30, 2014, 08:03:28 PM
 #31560

Have you every bought co-location space in your life to store your own servers? They charge you per-circuit and not for the power you use. There is at least one state in the US that has the lowest power costs out of all the other states that would be a good place for setting up cloud mining sites. There was a story recently on YouTube of a guy who setup his own mining in this state; which they wouldn't name; in a co-location, he was making 8 million a week in Bitcoin mining and was using 1mw of power. (Yes..Mega Watt)




I don't understand - 4Thps for $10000 vs 3 Thps for $11000 ? How much do you think electricity costs will be?


I don't know about everyone else but I've reached the limit of what my house can hold, physically and electrically.  I also happen to live in a desert environment and it's starting to get pretty warm during the day.

So it's time to rid myself of my first gen gear to make room for the newer miners arriving soon.  But then, I'm back at (or above) my max capacity.  And with cloudmining suddenly becoming competetive with hardware sales, it couldn't come at a better time for me.

Think about it, 3TH for $11,000 for 5 years = 3kw * 24hr * 365 days * 5 years * 10-cent kWh = $13,140 for electricity alone = -$2,140 (loss) for PBMining?  That's not even considering the cost of Bitcoin hardware? (Wait, where did they find the money to pay for the 3TH miner if they can't even pay for electricity?)  Where is money to pay for A/C cooling (unless they are in the Arctic Circle), data center cost (or at least renting out a space), Internet, power redundancy for a large operations, administration...  Where is any evident of their rapidly growing mining operations?  Have they provide proof that they are paying people from freshly minted bitcoins and not simply transferring from new investment from new victims?   Looks and smells  like a classic ponzi to me.  You might eventually get out with your original money or even make a little bit if you are one of the first victims, but you know what happen to all ponzi eventually once they can't keep the growth rate up...

Check out the PBMining thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=484355.100


You're the third (i think) person to make their first post in this thread in defence of PBMining.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?all=;topic=100696.0

Ponzi Indicators
1. High rate of return - Tick for PBMining
2.  Provides no evidence of business activity - Tick for PBMining
3. Business activity is "speculation" - no
4. Steady rates of return - PBmining pays the theoretical rate per gh
5. Increasing demand for capital - MAJOR tick, jumped from 14th to 64 in weeks....

Unlike a regular business which has its largest demand for capital at the start, the ponzi starts off with a very small amount of capital ("refuses" deposits), and then grows rapidly.  An increasing demand for capital makes sense only if the business can show what the money is being used for.  A ponzi will need to have its capital grow at a standard rate that exceeds the withdrawals, whereas a legitimate business will have a varying rate of investment.

6. Operator hides their identity - Big tick for PBmining (I have found out who they are)
7. A Super Majority of Non-Investors view it as a Ponzi - Not sure, but certainly many people think so.
8. They advertise a "Limited Availability" tick for pbmining

I'd add 9  - offer referrals to bring in new business - and 10 - use shill accounts to pump their scheme.

They tick 6 or 7 out of 8 for the "how to spot a ponzi" thread list, and 8 or 9 out of 10 if you add my two to the list.




Yes, I can confirm, there are places in the USA, where electricity is as low as 2.4cents per kilowatthour. Hawaii is 43 cents after all the fees, etc, so we looked early on...  Chelan, Washinton, is a hydrodam town, and such a place. There are others.
If you persue Chelan; steer clear of Chelan mini storage; the manager is dishonest, and attempted to over-charge us, and added for services he was not even involved in performing.


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