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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3007883 times)
Phoenix1969
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May 05, 2014, 05:51:04 PM
 #33281

Early March Huh

Why don't you call KNC and ask for a BTC-refund ?

Never mind if you ask for a cash- or BTC-refund: They write you back that they are "extremely busy" and will not give you a refund or a date when they will refund you.
 

RoadStress received his BTC-refund within 2 days after waiting weeks for $$-refund.

Sam confirmed that BTC refunds are faster.

After spamming their e-mail/support system with more than 20 e-mail and after letting everyone know that they should stay away from KnC. So yes i am inclined to think that Greedy Sam is reading the forums.

STAY AWAY FROM KNC AND NEVER BUY STUFF FROM THEM!
Must not have worked, I never got the spam you speak of... ?
or you were just repeatedly emailing them warning who?


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padrino
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May 05, 2014, 05:54:19 PM
 #33282

If they sent you replacement boards; you are compensated in the eyes of the law. I don't see what ground you have to bring it to court. You'd best talk with a lawyer before you waste too much energy on that.
CE certification is required for power supplies, not the components, and since the TOS clearly states you are agreeing you are a business, you are then NOT even a consumer, and are rejected from any "Consumer Protection Laws."

Given they redelivered used hardware as a replacement for a new system and never clarified that would be the case, and left customers in a position to attempt to repair without any option for a refund I suspect he will actually have a decent case on his hands in the eyes of Swedish law..

1CPi7VRihoF396gyYYcs2AdTEF8KQG2BCR
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RealMalatesta
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May 05, 2014, 05:54:35 PM
 #33283


Sam confirmed that BTC refunds are faster.

Sam? Hm, seems they made a movie about Sam at KnC:

http://www.anyclip.com/movies/brazil/looking-for-sam/#!quotes/
RealMalatesta
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May 05, 2014, 05:55:37 PM
 #33284

Good luck on Legal action... Considering court "backlogs", and the general slowness of the courts...
Especially in the area of consumer protection...
You would be lucky to get your case heard in court within a year or two in USA...
Is it like that in EU as well?
You would need "criminal" pursuits to get any timely action here,
and they are careful to classify consumer product orders under civil, and not criminal, especially when you are not even local.
Best luck will probably be right in Stockholm if you live there.
Wish you the best... just fair warning on what to expect.

The civil case normally should go pretty quickly.  It is standard procedure.
SgtMoth
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May 05, 2014, 05:58:49 PM
 #33285

anyone else receive the replacement parts yet?
RoadStress
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May 05, 2014, 06:03:22 PM
 #33286

Early March Huh

Why don't you call KNC and ask for a BTC-refund ?

Never mind if you ask for a cash- or BTC-refund: They write you back that they are "extremely busy" and will not give you a refund or a date when they will refund you.
 

RoadStress received his BTC-refund within 2 days after waiting weeks for $$-refund.

Sam confirmed that BTC refunds are faster.

After spamming their e-mail/support system with more than 20 e-mail and after letting everyone know that they should stay away from KnC. So yes i am inclined to think that Greedy Sam is reading the forums.

STAY AWAY FROM KNC AND NEVER BUY STUFF FROM THEM!
Must not have worked, I never got the spam you speak of... ?
or you were just repeatedly emailing them warning who?

2 separate things. I just sent them a lot of e-mails asking them for a clear date for my refund. Between 20 and 50.
Letting everyone know that they should stay away from KnC was done here on the forums.

iCEBREAKER is a troll! He and cypherdoc helped HashFast scam 50 Million $ from its customers !
H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
Phoenix1969
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May 05, 2014, 06:15:50 PM
 #33287

Good luck on Legal action... Considering court "backlogs", and the general slowness of the courts...
Especially in the area of consumer protection...
You would be lucky to get your case heard in court within a year or two in USA...
Is it like that in EU as well?
You would need "criminal" pursuits to get any timely action here,
and they are careful to classify consumer product orders under civil, and not criminal, especially when you are not even local.
Best luck will probably be right in Stockholm if you live there.
Wish you the best... just fair warning on what to expect.

The civil case normally should go pretty quickly.  It is standard procedure.
Read the TOS also... we are NOT consumers, we are "businesses",
as agreed.
I don't see any way around that one.
https://www.kncminer.com/pages/tandc

"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."



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padrino
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May 05, 2014, 06:27:59 PM
 #33288

Good luck on Legal action... Considering court "backlogs", and the general slowness of the courts...
Especially in the area of consumer protection...
You would be lucky to get your case heard in court within a year or two in USA...
Is it like that in EU as well?
You would need "criminal" pursuits to get any timely action here,
and they are careful to classify consumer product orders under civil, and not criminal, especially when you are not even local.
Best luck will probably be right in Stockholm if you live there.
Wish you the best... just fair warning on what to expect.

The civil case normally should go pretty quickly.  It is standard procedure.
Read the TOS also... we are NOT consumers, we are "businesses",
as agreed.
I don't see any way around that one.
https://www.kncminer.com/pages/tandc

"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."

I never noticed that, I cannot speak about how that would impact the case but I suspect it does as different protections should apply in that case..

1CPi7VRihoF396gyYYcs2AdTEF8KQG2BCR
https://www.bitworks.io
Phoenix1969
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May 05, 2014, 06:29:44 PM
 #33289

Good luck on Legal action... Considering court "backlogs", and the general slowness of the courts...
Especially in the area of consumer protection...
You would be lucky to get your case heard in court within a year or two in USA...
Is it like that in EU as well?
You would need "criminal" pursuits to get any timely action here,
and they are careful to classify consumer product orders under civil, and not criminal, especially when you are not even local.
Best luck will probably be right in Stockholm if you live there.
Wish you the best... just fair warning on what to expect.

The civil case normally should go pretty quickly.  It is standard procedure.
Read the TOS also... we are NOT consumers, we are "businesses",
as agreed.
I don't see any way around that one.
https://www.kncminer.com/pages/tandc

"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."

I never noticed that, I cannot speak about how that would impact the case but I suspect it does as different protections should apply in that case..
Difficult to get or nearly impossible to get "Consumer protection" when you agreed you're not a consumer.


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RealMalatesta
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May 05, 2014, 06:40:07 PM
 #33290

Good luck on Legal action... Considering court "backlogs", and the general slowness of the courts...
Especially in the area of consumer protection...
You would be lucky to get your case heard in court within a year or two in USA...
Is it like that in EU as well?
You would need "criminal" pursuits to get any timely action here,
and they are careful to classify consumer product orders under civil, and not criminal, especially when you are not even local.
Best luck will probably be right in Stockholm if you live there.
Wish you the best... just fair warning on what to expect.

The civil case normally should go pretty quickly.  It is standard procedure.
Read the TOS also... we are NOT consumers, we are "businesses",
as agreed.
I don't see any way around that one.
https://www.kncminer.com/pages/tandc

"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."



So what? This case is not about consumer protection, it is about not paying back money. So in your opinion, they shouldn't pay back to a business if they agree to pay a refund?
Phoenix1969
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May 05, 2014, 06:41:26 PM
 #33291

Good luck on Legal action... Considering court "backlogs", and the general slowness of the courts...
Especially in the area of consumer protection...
You would be lucky to get your case heard in court within a year or two in USA...
Is it like that in EU as well?
You would need "criminal" pursuits to get any timely action here,
and they are careful to classify consumer product orders under civil, and not criminal, especially when you are not even local.
Best luck will probably be right in Stockholm if you live there.
Wish you the best... just fair warning on what to expect.

The civil case normally should go pretty quickly.  It is standard procedure.
Read the TOS also... we are NOT consumers, we are "businesses",
as agreed.
I don't see any way around that one.
https://www.kncminer.com/pages/tandc

"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."



So what? This case is not about consumer protection, it is about not paying back money. So in your opinion, they shouldn't pay back to a business if they agree to pay a refund?
Heh, no, I'm "on your side"  I'm only pointing out your hurdles. Approaching the case with CPL's will probably go nowhere. You need to build a CRIMINAL case, and that may be extremely difficult. You will need a savvy lawyer, and plenty of money to pay him/her. A court-appointed attorney in this case will get you booted from the backlog before you can say rumplestiltskin.


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RealMalatesta
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May 05, 2014, 06:42:53 PM
 #33292


Read the TOS also... we are NOT consumers, we are "businesses",
as agreed.
[/quote]

Just as a funny side-line: I ordered the miners for a company. However, KnC does not let me fill in the business name, but only my name. So much about "business".
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May 05, 2014, 06:49:59 PM
 #33293

Good luck on Legal action... Considering court "backlogs", and the general slowness of the courts...
Especially in the area of consumer protection...
You would be lucky to get your case heard in court within a year or two in USA...
Is it like that in EU as well?
You would need "criminal" pursuits to get any timely action here,
and they are careful to classify consumer product orders under civil, and not criminal, especially when you are not even local.
Best luck will probably be right in Stockholm if you live there.
Wish you the best... just fair warning on what to expect.

The civil case normally should go pretty quickly.  It is standard procedure.
Read the TOS also... we are NOT consumers, we are "businesses",
as agreed.
I don't see any way around that one.
https://www.kncminer.com/pages/tandc

"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."



So what? This case is not about consumer protection, it is about not paying back money. So in your opinion, they shouldn't pay back to a business if they agree to pay a refund?
Heh, no, I'm "on your side"  I'm only pointing out your hurdles

There's no hurdle: A civil claim for getting money back is not a matter of consumer protection but of "Kronofogden". Consumer protection is handled by the Swedish Consumer Agency. I've written them, too, basically because "unfair contract terms" - I wrote them after I had a long conversation with one of their lawyers, telling them about the TOS and how they want that clients declare themselves as business instead of individual. However, I haven't got a response from them yet.
Phoenix1969
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May 05, 2014, 06:52:05 PM
 #33294

Good luck on Legal action... Considering court "backlogs", and the general slowness of the courts...
Especially in the area of consumer protection...
You would be lucky to get your case heard in court within a year or two in USA...
Is it like that in EU as well?
You would need "criminal" pursuits to get any timely action here,
and they are careful to classify consumer product orders under civil, and not criminal, especially when you are not even local.
Best luck will probably be right in Stockholm if you live there.
Wish you the best... just fair warning on what to expect.

The civil case normally should go pretty quickly.  It is standard procedure.
Read the TOS also... we are NOT consumers, we are "businesses",
as agreed.
I don't see any way around that one.
https://www.kncminer.com/pages/tandc

"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."



So what? This case is not about consumer protection, it is about not paying back money. So in your opinion, they shouldn't pay back to a business if they agree to pay a refund?
Heh, no, I'm "on your side"  I'm only pointing out your hurdles

There's no hurdle: A civil claim for getting money back is not a matter of consumer protection but of "Kronofogden". Consumer protection is handled by the Swedish Consumer Agency. I've written them, too, basically because "unfair contract terms" - I wrote them after I had a long conversation with one of their lawyers, telling them about the TOS and how they want that clients declare themselves as business instead of individual. However, I haven't got a response from them yet.
So, you are letting a government agency handle the case?
UG. Good luck man... civil servant lawyers are among the least experienced, and are required to "serve" to get that experience, hence a "court appointed attorney" same thing.  That's like going to the dental school for facial surgery...scary. I suggest a REAL attorney, who is a member of a large firm, so you can organize a class-action suit. That's probably the path of "least resistance", but will also take time, just like BFL. You know how many cases BFL has against them? Hundreds. A year later, they are still selling vaporware machines to whoever will buy.
This is a huge mess in a cloudy area to say the least.


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RealMalatesta
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May 05, 2014, 06:57:35 PM
 #33295

You need to build a CRIMINAL case, and that may be extremely difficult. You will need a savvy lawyer, and plenty of money to pay him/her. A court-appointed attorney in this case will get you booted from the backlog before you can say rumplestiltskin.

I absolutely agree. But the cheapest way to get the material a lawyer needs to build a criminal case is the civil case. I don't know how these cases are handled in the US, but here it is pretty clear as described by the authorities:

Quote
The Enforcement Authority sends a letter, order to pay, concerning the claim to the party from which you wish to receive payment (the defendant). The letter contains a slip which the defendant shall fill in and return. It is proof that the letter has been received.
 
The person receiving the letter may react in different ways:

    The person makes the payment to you. If the entire debt is paid off you must promptly request a withdrawal of your application in writing. You must also inform us if only part of the debt is paid.
    The person writes us and objects to (contests) the debt. We inform you as such and you then decide whether you wish for your application to be passed on to the courts for further processing. If you do not wish for the courts to further the process, the Enforcement Authority will dismiss the case.
    The person does not contact the Enforcement Authority. In this case, the Enforcement Authority will issue a verdict. The verdict shall state that the defendant is obligated to pay the debt which is the subject of your claim.

Most probably, Knc will contest the debt. However, as a member of Teledata - a Swedish debt collecting agency - I can ask them to go against KnC. They will hate this, for it will affect their creditworthiness.
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May 05, 2014, 06:59:55 PM
 #33296


You guys are making a hell of a noise, but still RoadStress received his BTC-refund within 2 days.

So what's the problem ? Just ask a BTC refund, double your investment and hodl Tongue
RealMalatesta
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May 05, 2014, 07:02:18 PM
 #33297


You guys are making a hell of a noise, but still RoadStress received his BTC-refund within 2 days.

So what's the problem ? Just ask a BTC refund, double your investment and hodl Tongue

I asked for a BTC refund. KnC: ",,,we will process this for you as soon as possible." So how many days is "as soon as possible"? Obviously more than two days.
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May 05, 2014, 07:05:03 PM
 #33298

You need to build a CRIMINAL case, and that may be extremely difficult. You will need a savvy lawyer, and plenty of money to pay him/her. A court-appointed attorney in this case will get you booted from the backlog before you can say rumplestiltskin.

I absolutely agree. But the cheapest way to get the material a lawyer needs to build a criminal case is the civil case. I don't know how these cases are handled in the US, but here it is pretty clear as described by the authorities:

Quote
The Enforcement Authority sends a letter, order to pay, concerning the claim to the party from which you wish to receive payment (the defendant). The letter contains a slip which the defendant shall fill in and return. It is proof that the letter has been received.
 
The person receiving the letter may react in different ways:

    The person makes the payment to you. If the entire debt is paid off you must promptly request a withdrawal of your application in writing. You must also inform us if only part of the debt is paid.
    The person writes us and objects to (contests) the debt. We inform you as such and you then decide whether you wish for your application to be passed on to the courts for further processing. If you do not wish for the courts to further the process, the Enforcement Authority will dismiss the case.
    The person does not contact the Enforcement Authority. In this case, the Enforcement Authority will issue a verdict. The verdict shall state that the defendant is obligated to pay the debt which is the subject of your claim.

Most probably, Knc will contest the debt. However, as a member of Teledata - a Swedish debt collecting agency - I can ask them to go against KnC. They will hate this, for it will affect their creditworthiness.

hmm, that sounds like a good idea to add pressure... but where does that go legally? It would just give them a poor credit rating here, and they don't need credit anymore, as they are rich already, and have no need for credit.
But if that can order payment as you say... great!


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RoadStress
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May 05, 2014, 07:05:31 PM
 #33299


You guys are making a hell of a noise, but still RoadStress received his BTC-refund within 2 days.

So what's the problem ? Just ask a BTC refund, double your investment and hodl Tongue

But I will still tip RealMalatesta if he gets a written document from any "Enforcement Authority" Smiley

hmm, that sounds like a good idea to add pressure... but where does that go legally? It would just give them a poor credit rating here, and they don't need credit anymore, as they are rich already, and have no need for credit.

Sam will need credit credit as a private person.

iCEBREAKER is a troll! He and cypherdoc helped HashFast scam 50 Million $ from its customers !
H/w Hosting Directory & Reputation - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=622998.0
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May 05, 2014, 07:07:22 PM
 #33300


You guys are making a hell of a noise, but still RoadStress received his BTC-refund within 2 days.

So what's the problem ? Just ask a BTC refund, double your investment and hodl Tongue

I asked for a BTC refund. KnC: ",,,we will process this for you as soon as possible." So how many days is "as soon as possible"? Obviously more than two days.

Maybe you can call them... that solved the problem for RoadStress... +46 8559 253 20
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