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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3008685 times)
JohnyBigs
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July 12, 2013, 02:31:13 AM
 #3421

maybe you all need to learn how to visit kncminer.com and learn to read.

We have a short status update for everyone.

 
Shipping days
 
As most of you are aware we have added Day 1 or Day 2 to the orders which were based on pre-registrations. This is mostly complete now with only a few exceptions needing to be solved. Going forward we will add Shipping weeks to the other orders such as Week 1 or Week 2.  This will happen nearer the end of August so until then you can assume that shipment queue is based on payment date.
 
 
Chip progress
 
We get a lot of questions about where we are in the process of our production. We would like to assure you all that we are on track for the first shipment in September
The Chip manufacture is currently in production of the Chips and all other sub components that need to have been ordered at this stage have been.
 
 
Hosting
 
We have our final costs for hosting which will be 350USD per Jupiter per month with a 6 month contract as a minimum, We will only allow the Jupiter models to be housed in our secure location.
There will be a mining pool onsite that will charge a very low pool fee around 2%. Only hosting customers will be allowed to use our mining pool.
More information on the hosting will follow
 
 
Upgrade Modules
 
We will be adding to our shop the upgrade modules to allow customer who have purchased a Saturn to upgrade their order to a Jupiter. The same goes for a Mercury upgrade to a Saturn. These upgrades will be available in the next few days.
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madsusies
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July 12, 2013, 02:40:44 AM
 #3422

Does it concern anyone that Bitfury has chips in the field being tested with images and videos available?
Will we see similar from KNC? Aren't they both projecting miner availability in September?
https://bitcentury.io/blog/bitfury-asic-in-action
Bitfury got just sample chips 5gh on video only 1,2gh passive cooling, they even do not now what happed with chips at 5gh with cooling. The knc if it's true 100gh per chip doesn't need so many per unit.
I know it's stupid question but is pre bordering ope
n or closed 4 mars?
erschiessen
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July 12, 2013, 02:43:51 AM
 #3423

No Mars, they decided against FPGA.
Mercury orders (single chip 100 GH/sec ASIC) is open.

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July 12, 2013, 02:57:40 AM
 #3424

Does it concern anyone that Bitfury has chips in the field being tested with images and videos available?
Will we see similar from KNC? Aren't they both projecting miner availability in September?
https://bitcentury.io/blog/bitfury-asic-in-action
Bitfury got just sample chips 5gh on video only 1,2gh passive cooling, they even do not now what happed with chips at 5gh with cooling. The knc if it's true 100gh per chip doesn't need so many per unit.
I know it's stupid question but is pre bordering ope
n or closed 4 mars?

That just shows the importance of KNC producing a chip early enough to iron out any problems.  Remember BFL announced a flaw in its chip design back in November 2012 and we all know how that turned out...
bkpduke
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July 12, 2013, 03:07:34 AM
 #3425

Does it concern anyone that Bitfury has chips in the field being tested with images and videos available?
Will we see similar from KNC? Aren't they both projecting miner availability in September?
https://bitcentury.io/blog/bitfury-asic-in-action
Bitfury got just sample chips 5gh on video only 1,2gh passive cooling, they even do not now what happed with chips at 5gh with cooling. The knc if it's true 100gh per chip doesn't need so many per unit.
I know it's stupid question but is pre bordering ope
n or closed 4 mars?

Except that the KNC chips are MASSIVE in size (expensive to produce) and the Bitfury chips are TINY (and thereby CHEAP).

KNC - ~3000mm2
BitFury - ~16mm2

I've gone over this before about why HUGE chips are very very bad for profitability (i.e. low chip yields)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=244584.msg2680796#msg2680796


In full disclosure, I have a Bitfury order in process.  I bought it because that was looking to be first to market when I made my purchase.  I also have Terrahash on order, and that's looking to be a painful experience.
ASIC-K
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July 12, 2013, 03:10:13 AM
 #3426

Does it concern anyone that Bitfury has chips in the field being tested with images and videos available?
Will we see similar from KNC? Aren't they both projecting miner availability in September?
https://bitcentury.io/blog/bitfury-asic-in-action
Bitfury got just sample chips 5gh on video only 1,2gh passive cooling, they even do not now what happed with chips at 5gh with cooling. The knc if it's true 100gh per chip doesn't need so many per unit.
I know it's stupid question but is pre bordering ope
n or closed 4 mars?

Except that the KNC chips are MASSIVE in size (expensive to produce) and the Bitfury chips are TINY (and thereby CHEAP).

KNC - ~3000mm2
BitFury - ~16mm2

I've gone over this before about why HUGE chips are very very bad for profitability (i.e. low chip yields)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=244584.msg2680796#msg2680796


In full disclosure, I have a Bitfury order in process.  I bought it because that was looking to be first to market when I made my purchase.  I also have Terrahash on order, and that's looking to be a painful experience.

i still dont understand why they went with such a giant die size? clearly i am no engineer, but i thought 28nm was supposed to be SMALLER.
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July 12, 2013, 03:14:06 AM
 #3427

i still dont understand why they went with such a giant die size? clearly i am no engineer, but i thought 28nm was supposed to be SMALLER.

28nm is simply the lithography line width.  It does allow you to pack more transistors into the same space.

The problem is their design, IMHO.  They are trying to produce a "super chip" with many many many SHA256 engines in it.  Other companies are making fewer engines, and "uniting" them on the board.

The theoretical of what KNC is doing is better, but the practical (i.e. what we know from 30 years of IC production) means it is going to have a high rate of defective or partially defective chips.

It also means it will be a HOT chip and take some good cooling (probably why they have designed things in a "wind tunnel" type design).
ASIC-K
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July 12, 2013, 03:25:14 AM
 #3428

i still dont understand why they went with such a giant die size? clearly i am no engineer, but i thought 28nm was supposed to be SMALLER.

28nm is simply the lithography line width.  It does allow you to pack more transistors into the same space.

The problem is their design, IMHO.  They are trying to produce a "super chip" with many many many SHA256 engines in it.  Other companies are making fewer engines, and "uniting" them on the board.

The theoretical of what KNC is doing is better, but the practical (i.e. what we know from 30 years of IC production) means it is going to have a high rate of defective or partially defective chips.

It also means it will be a HOT chip and take some good cooling (probably why they have designed things in a "wind tunnel" type design).

man, thats the best explanation i have heard so far. thanks for that!!
erk
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July 12, 2013, 03:26:37 AM
 #3429



Except that the KNC chips are MASSIVE in size (expensive to produce) and the Bitfury chips are TINY (and thereby CHEAP).

KNC - ~3000mm2
BitFury - ~16mm2

I've gone over this before about why HUGE chips are very very bad for profitability (i.e. low chip yields)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=244584.msg2680796#msg2680796


In full disclosure, I have a Bitfury order in process.  I bought it because that was looking to be first to market when I made my purchase.  I also have Terrahash on order, and that's looking to be a painful experience.
Nonsense, their package is 3,000mm2 not the die size.
bkpduke
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July 12, 2013, 03:28:01 AM
 #3430



Except that the KNC chips are MASSIVE in size (expensive to produce) and the Bitfury chips are TINY (and thereby CHEAP).

KNC - ~3000mm2
BitFury - ~16mm2

I've gone over this before about why HUGE chips are very very bad for profitability (i.e. low chip yields)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=244584.msg2680796#msg2680796


In full disclosure, I have a Bitfury order in process.  I bought it because that was looking to be first to market when I made my purchase.  I also have Terrahash on order, and that's looking to be a painful experience.
Nonsense, their package is 3,000mm2 not the die size.


Link for proof please.  You don't make a package size of 3000mm2 if you have tiny chips . . .
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July 12, 2013, 03:32:37 AM
 #3431


I cannot believe no one else has picked up on this as well.  KNCMiner's die size is 2.5 INCHES squared.  That's . . . . Titanic sized.

I hate do to be debbie downer here, but that means that on a standard 300mm wafer they will not get many chips, and that's assuming a 100% chip yield from the wafer.  Wafer's always have defects which cause some chips to go down.  The yield decreases exponentially as a the die size goes up (i.e. it only takes a tiny imperfection in the wafer to make the entire chip a paperweight).

Even if they get chips, the yield is going to be absurdly low, I would bet less than 25%.  They can probably recoup some investment by selling chips that are spec'd lower and have some "cores" disabled in them, but this is hit or miss depending on where in the chip the defect occurs.

Of course we picked up on it. But, OrSoc are not beginners and my understanding is the chips have an almost gpu-like design (massively parallel). Therefore , if a few units do not work, they will be disabled upon self-test. Also, the chips have extra units to compensate for defects in the manufacturing process. Also, my understanding was that they over-engineered this chip in order to account for as many issues as they possibly could.

Now this is just my impression from reading the Q/A session and watching the videos, but it seems to me that they are taking a (very) calculated risk. Even if a chip is massive, the fact that is not very complicated should probably increase yields, so we'll just have to wait and see.

There is a reason companies like Intel do not make these MASSIVE chips.  No one is as good as Intel in chip manufacturing, not even close.  If Intel actively avoids this die sizes, there is a @#$N good reason.

This is no my first rodeo, I follow IC manufacturing closely, and have for 20 years now.  Making a chip this big is a huge huge mistake.  If they are even making it at all (where are the die shots?).


EDIT - and chip yields have just as much to do about wafer quality as the IC design.  The bigger these things get, the faster yields fall.  Even if they are like a GPU and can shut off parts of the chip, there is no way around that.

I think we'll all feel better when we see some chip die shots. Hopefully soon...
erk
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July 12, 2013, 03:53:36 AM
 #3432



Link for proof please.  You don't make a package size of 3000mm2 if you have tiny chips . . .
More nonsense, Pentium III was 49.5 x 49.5mm, Pentium 4 53.3mm x 53.3mm  so 55 x 55mm is hardly unusual considering you are trying to dissipate twice the heat of those old processors.


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July 12, 2013, 04:26:16 AM
 #3433

Does it concern anyone that Bitfury has chips in the field being tested with images and videos available?
Will we see similar from KNC? Aren't they both projecting miner availability in September?

https://bitcentury.io/blog/bitfury-asic-in-action


OOO! OO!, THAT LOOKS LIKE WHAT I WANT, WHERE CAN I BUY THAT!

http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=DingoRabiit&sign=ANY&type=RECV <-My Ratings
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.0 GAWminers and associated things are not to be trusted, Especially the "mineral" exchange
erk
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July 12, 2013, 04:30:18 AM
 #3434

Does it concern anyone that Bitfury has chips in the field being tested with images and videos available?
Will we see similar from KNC? Aren't they both projecting miner availability in September?

https://bitcentury.io/blog/bitfury-asic-in-action


OOO! OO!, THAT LOOKS LIKE WHAT I WANT, WHERE CAN I BUY THAT!

Try their thread not here please.
Fiyasko
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July 12, 2013, 04:57:24 AM
 #3435

Does it concern anyone that Bitfury has chips in the field being tested with images and videos available?
Will we see similar from KNC? Aren't they both projecting miner availability in September?

https://bitcentury.io/blog/bitfury-asic-in-action


OOO! OO!, THAT LOOKS LIKE WHAT I WANT, WHERE CAN I BUY THAT!

Try their thread not here please.

They have a thread?, all i could find was a thread about the bitfury Chips themsleves, I want to purchase a Plug-Set-Go ASIC

http://bitcoin-otc.com/viewratingdetail.php?nick=DingoRabiit&sign=ANY&type=RECV <-My Ratings
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=857670.0 GAWminers and associated things are not to be trusted, Especially the "mineral" exchange
Templer
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July 12, 2013, 05:35:26 AM
 #3436

Does it concern anyone that Bitfury has chips in the field being tested with images and videos available?
Will we see similar from KNC? Aren't they both projecting miner availability in September?

https://bitcentury.io/blog/bitfury-asic-in-action


OOO! OO!, THAT LOOKS LIKE WHAT I WANT, WHERE CAN I BUY THAT!

Try their thread not here please.

They have a thread?, all i could find was a thread about the bitfury Chips themsleves, I want to purchase a Plug-Set-Go ASIC

Please this is a KNC Thread!!
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July 12, 2013, 05:47:22 AM
 #3437

Does it concern anyone that Bitfury has chips in the field being tested with images and videos available?
Will we see similar from KNC? Aren't they both projecting miner availability in September?

https://bitcentury.io/blog/bitfury-asic-in-action


OOO! OO!, THAT LOOKS LIKE WHAT I WANT, WHERE CAN I BUY THAT!

Try their thread not here please.

They have a thread?, all i could find was a thread about the bitfury Chips themsleves, I want to purchase a Plug-Set-Go ASIC

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=251966.0
jbutter
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July 12, 2013, 09:14:28 AM
 #3438

No need for the ATX PWS if you chose Hosting, and if the unit breaks, no RMA headaches, plus they mentioned they tweak it to perfection.
Mota
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July 12, 2013, 09:23:36 AM
 #3439

well, I find 350$ hard to swallow.

Who wants to be a billionaire? Me!
You could help Wink 1Dvja1RFCqxdnYRgjTntwGvdCeUisU4xp
de_ixie
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July 12, 2013, 09:34:53 AM
 #3440

well, I find 350$ hard to swallow.

Will be highly dependend on your location and what you pay for energy. I calculated it earlier in this thread. In Germany for instance you pay on average 0.25€/ 0.32$ for 1kW/h.

This means around 230$ per month electricity for a Jupiter. Adding all the hosting-services they will (probably) provide 350$ is a pretty attractive offer. In areas with lower power costs this may not be the case.

European Bitcoin Exchange - Bitcoin handeln im deutschen Rechtsraum. Fair und reibungslos:
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