Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[lightfoot]

So it's possible that "dead" dies are actually not dead at all, but the solder below them has just melted and shorted across the array?

Yeah, basically. And since it is much more likely you shorted the +.6 supply it's not that uncommon.

The problem though is getting flux under the die for a reflow, without flux shorted balls will never "re-ball" themselves under heat. You could pull the die and attempt to re-ball but this is really getting towards the edge of what I can do (not impossible, just that placing the chip with a .1mm error is one ball off).

If I can find a way into the chip without being destructive I can at least remove an errant die, so we'll see. This is all to fix one guy's cube, I just don't seem to want to give up on this. :-)

[jelin1984]

Where I can find the custom Titan firmware

[GenTarkin]

Where I can find the custom Titan firmware

my website: http://gentarkincustomtitan.pcriot.com

[Longsnowsm]

Some hard data for you Titan users: Moral: These things were built to hash at 60mh, going faster makes miner sad.

I'm running two miners here, one is a stock reference one running at 275mhz, the other is a client's repaired one (with bypass wires) running at 225mhz. Note the power, DC-DC temp difference, and other differences. It's a lot of extra oomph to get that magical extra 10mh....

ASIC 2 (Speed 225mhz)
Temp : 31.0 °C
Power : 187.445 W

DC/DC   Voltage (V)   Current (A)   Power (W)   Temperature (°C)
0   0.7878   28.781222.674   47.500
1   0.7874   29.1875   22.982   46.900
2   0.7886   29.4062   23.190   45.900
3   0.7883   29.9062   23.575   45.300
4   0.7920   30.0938   23.834   44.100
5   0.7922   29.3438   23.246   43.900
6   0.7892   30.3750   23.972   43.900
7   0.7892   30.3750   23.972   45.100

ASIC 6 (275mhz)
Temp : 38.5 °C
Power : 232.520 W

DC/DC   Voltage (V)   Current (A)   Power (W)   Temperature (°C)
0   0.7858   36.5000   28.682   61.600
1   0.7863   36.5625   28.749   63.400
2   0.7819   36.8750   28.833   61.400
3   0.7841   36.9375   28.963   60.400
4   0.7836   37.3125   29.238   55.900
5   0.7847   37.9375   29.770   55.700
6   0.7826   37.3125   29.201   57.700
7   0.7861   37.0000   29.086   57.100

 KNC 0:       | 59.00/61.52/61.57Mh/s | A:315 R:1+0(.32%) HW: 64/.59%
 KNC 1:       | 71.02/72.75/72.66Mh/s | A:385 R:2+0(.52%) HW: 73/.57%

I would recommend slowing down to 60mh total. That is what these were designed for.

Lightfoot, I like your thinking on this.  What happened at the 250mhz setting?  Is 225mhz the sweet spot?  What voltage can you turn it down to at that setting?  That is a huge difference and your right that grinding out those few MH for that much more electricity, heat, wear and tear doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  Would love to see more tuning in this direction... :-)  I finally bought a Titan and it will be here next week.  I am looking forward to getting it setup and tuned!  

[Longsnowsm]

I was bit surprised when after modyfing cubes per youtube video (anyone did put heatsink on all DC converters?) and applying new thermal paste I managed to get my problematic dies to work at full spead. I had 2 that would run at 125mhz max. now they running at full 300mhz (didnt tried more).
and was shocked how dried up thermal paste was on some cubes:/

btw anyone ever tried to put some water cooling?

This is a very interesting observation.  Have others had a similar experience?  Is there a good video out there showing how to do this?  I saw one video that wasn't bad, but I would love to have a close up view of how to do this.  If it really makes that big of a difference then it certainly sounds like something I would like to do also. 

[Longsnowsm]

Ok, I have been slowly reading back through this thread... It reads like a soap opera!  LOL

On the GenTarkin firmware I had a question.  For miners that have weak or non-hashing dies.  Does the firmware try to move the MHZ setting down on those dies to try and bring those dies back to life?  Or do we simply set the firmware at the starting point where we want to tune it and it mainly focuses on the leanest voltages at a given setting?   The rig I just bought I know has some weak or dead dies that I am hoping to bring back to life or get a few extra MH out of it.  I am waiting on this rig to arrive in the mail this week.  I have read what others have posted on how to get this tuned manually, but I was curious if the firmware is already doing some of this work. 

Also on the energy saver mode do you have a watts per hash calculation?  Maybe an option to choose a energy profile of "ultra conservative", "conservative", "passive-aggressive!" mode that calculates the best hash per watt consumed and tunes it down to that level based on the level of performance the user wants?   For example I saw the post earlier from Lightfoot regarding the heat and power consumption jump going from 225mhz up to 275mhz.  So I figured if the sweet spot for these dies for stable and cool operation is in the 225mhz range then it would seem that it would be possible to calculate energy profiles based on hash rates, temps, and power consumed.  If your already doing all of that please forgive my ignorance.  It is very appealing to me to be able to run this rig cool and stable... and save energy in the process while getting the best performance possible from the rig.  I have already ordered the parts and tools to do some of the mods to the heatsink, and the dcdc cooling.  I am hoping that by getting some fresh thermal paste, and getting better heat sinks on the dcdc converters that this will help with the rig I bought.  I wasn't able to tell from the thread if the investment in other fans would give me much of a benefit.  I am curious what others are doing in regards to the fans.  My rig is a batch 1. 

I think there is a copy of the GenTarkin firmware on this rig that I bought, but I have no idea if this is purchased copy or what the story is yet.  I will be reaching out once the rig is here and getting this license sorted out and get the latest copy of the GenTarkin masterpiece! :-)   

I appreciate all that you guys are doing and sharing on this thread.  It is very helpful!  Thanks!

[TXSteve]

Ok, I have been slowly reading back through this thread... It reads like a soap opera!  LOL

On the GenTarkin firmware I had a question.  For miners that have weak or non-hashing dies.  Does the firmware try to move the MHZ setting down on those dies to try and bring those dies back to life?  Or do we simply set the firmware at the starting point where we want to tune it and it mainly focuses on the leanest voltages at a given setting?   The rig I just bought I know has some weak or dead dies that I am hoping to bring back to life or get a few extra MH out of it.  I am waiting on this rig to arrive in the mail this week.  I have read what others have posted on how to get this tuned manually, but I was curious if the firmware is already doing some of this work. 

Also on the energy saver mode do you have a watts per hash calculation?  Maybe an option to choose a energy profile of "ultra conservative", "conservative", "passive-aggressive!" mode that calculates the best hash per watt consumed and tunes it down to that level based on the level of performance the user wants?   For example I saw the post earlier from Lightfoot regarding the heat and power consumption jump going from 225mhz up to 275mhz.  So I figured if the sweet spot for these dies for stable and cool operation is in the 225mhz range then it would seem that it would be possible to calculate energy profiles based on hash rates, temps, and power consumed.  If your already doing all of that please forgive my ignorance.  It is very appealing to me to be able to run this rig cool and stable... and save energy in the process while getting the best performance possible from the rig.  I have already ordered the parts and tools to do some of the mods to the heatsink, and the dcdc cooling.  I am hoping that by getting some fresh thermal paste, and getting better heat sinks on the dcdc converters that this will help with the rig I bought.  I wasn't able to tell from the thread if the investment in other fans would give me much of a benefit.  I am curious what others are doing in regards to the fans.  My rig is a batch 1. 

I think there is a copy of the GenTarkin firmware on this rig that I bought, but I have no idea if this is purchased copy or what the story is yet.  I will be reaching out once the rig is here and getting this license sorted out and get the latest copy of the GenTarkin masterpiece! :-)   

I appreciate all that you guys are doing and sharing on this thread.  It is very helpful!  Thanks!

Hi, I think I was bidding on that Titan you bought 

this is what I would do, -- replace the thermal paste, clean the heatsink & pcb with some 99.9% isopropyl alcohol & brush, blow it out real good, and replace the fans with noctura highspeed fans , then let them run for awhile. With the noctura fans & a clean heat sink you may not need any more cooling (dcdc heatsinks)

http://www.amazon.com/Arctic-Silver-High-Density-Polysynthetic-AS5-12GRFB/dp/B001JYVFLY?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
http://www.amazon.com/Bearing-Cooling-NF-A14-iPPC-3000-PWM/dp/B00KFCRF1A?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
http://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Isopropyl-Alcohol-Cleaner/dp/B005DNQX3C?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
http://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-852-Non-Abrasive-Cleaning/dp/B004SPCXYO?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage


good luck

[lightfoot]

And whatever you do don't crank the heatsink down on the chip or add washers on the top. Doing this will push down on the chip and result in a taco.

And don't run over 250w of power. 275 is FINE!

And always say your prayers before bedtime.

In the meantime I have been fiddling with speeds on re-wired Titans, I can get some of the dies up to 275mhz, but not more than two per board. Still, not bad.

Also figured out what causes the bridge boards to blow, it's the Pi boards on top shorting their little power supplies. When that happens the +5 (unfused of course) shorts dead and the board trace becomes the fuse. You can replace it with wire-wrap wire (or I can) but you really need to also look into buying a new Rpi. Make sure you get the right one, you can test the old one by trying to power it through the mini-usb port with 5v. If it don't come up it's toast.

[KidRocks]

And whatever you do don't crank the heatsink down on the chip or add washers on the top. Doing this will push down on the chip and result in a taco.

And don't run over 250w of power. 275 is FINE!

And always say your prayers before bedtime.

In the meantime I have been fiddling with speeds on re-wired Titans, I can get some of the dies up to 275mhz, but not more than two per board. Still, not bad.

Also figured out what causes the bridge boards to blow, it's the Pi boards on top shorting their little power supplies. When that happens the +5 (unfused of course) shorts dead and the board trace becomes the fuse. You can replace it with wire-wrap wire (or I can) but you really need to also look into buying a new Rpi. Make sure you get the right one, you can test the old one by trying to power it through the mini-usb port with 5v. If it don't come up it's toast.

ive taco'd a few, toasted a few, hell im toasty right now!

in all seriousness though ive been able to push 4 titans on one board up to 250-270 range and keep it stable,
it took a lot of firmware hacking and liquid cooling, but it's totally possible!

[lightfoot]

Lightfoot, I like your thinking on this.  What happened at the 250mhz setting?  Is 225mhz the sweet spot?  What voltage can you turn it down to at that setting?  That is a huge difference and your right that grinding out those few MH for that much more electricity, heat, wear and tear doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  Would love to see more tuning in this direction... :-)  I finally bought a Titan and it will be here next week.  I am looking forward to getting it setup and tuned!  

250 would cause the supplies to go unstable on the re-wired one, remember this was with a destroyed power plug assembly (from running it too hot) and 200-225 is the top speed. That said I'm running another re-wire with one die running at 275, the other three running at 200, and it still pulls a good 60-65mh. Which is not bad when you consider the one running 275 on all dies only pulls 70mh.

Play with it, but keep in mind that when you run faster you pull more power for less mh and you stress the chip/supplies/board more. Ask yourself if a new supply every N months is worth it. Or winding up with a 0mh unit :-)

[lightfoot]

ive taco'd a few, toasted a few, hell im toasty right now!

in all seriousness though ive been able to push 4 titans on one board up to 250-270 range and keep it stable,
it took a lot of firmware hacking and liquid cooling, but it's totally possible!

And if people blow them up I can fix them :-) But really might be a better investment (not for me of course) to run them a bit cooler since these actually seem to have value over time. Which is kind of amazing.

[Mattzees]

ive taco'd a few, toasted a few, hell im toasty right now!

in all seriousness though ive been able to push 4 titans on one board up to 250-270 range and keep it stable,
it took a lot of firmware hacking and liquid cooling, but it's totally possible!

And if people blow them up I can fix them :-) But really might be a better investment (not for me of course) to run them a bit cooler since these actually seem to have value over time. Which is kind of amazing.

Even when I was GPU mining, I found that undervolting and running a bit slower/cooler was always a better option than hitting everything on head as hard as I could.  I'm not surprised that the Titans also run better this way. 

When I first got my Titan, it was totally unstable, but I wound up running it a little slower and it was better that way.  I should have taken the hint.  With everything that's transpired since then, it makes perfect sense.

[GenTarkin]

ive taco'd a few, toasted a few, hell im toasty right now!

in all seriousness though ive been able to push 4 titans on one board up to 250-270 range and keep it stable,
it took a lot of firmware hacking and liquid cooling, but it's totally possible!

And if people blow them up I can fix them :-) But really might be a better investment (not for me of course) to run them a bit cooler since these actually seem to have value over time. Which is kind of amazing.

Even when I was GPU mining, I found that undervolting and running a bit slower/cooler was always a better option than hitting everything on head as hard as I could.  I'm not surprised that the Titans also run better this way.  

When I first got my Titan, it was totally unstable, but I wound up running it a little slower and it was better that way.  I should have taken the hint.  With everything that's transpired since then, it makes perfect sense.

Yeah, it makes complete sense that stuff works much more reliably when they are ran within spec. Running them reliably out of spec is always a gamble. Unfortunately, most mining hardware is made like shit. You get lucky when you can run shit hardware out of spec and reliably =) The even further problem is when manufacturers market them at a default speed which is beyond spec and miners think thats within spec. So, you have all this highly unreliable junk .... just to keep miners in competition with each other and further fuel the greed.
The end result: Mining hardware manufactures are the only ones who really make the money in this game.

but, as far as running out of spec .... as long as you keep things cool enough, 90% of the time you can get away with it just fine.

[Longsnowsm]

Hi, I think I was bidding on that Titan you bought 

this is what I would do, -- replace the thermal paste, clean the heatsink & pcb with some 99.9% isopropyl alcohol & brush, blow it out real good, and replace the fans with noctura highspeed fans , then let them run for awhile. With the noctura fans & a clean heat sink you may not need any more cooling (dcdc heatsinks)

http://www.amazon.com/Arctic-Silver-High-Density-Polysynthetic-AS5-12GRFB/dp/B001JYVFLY?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
http://www.amazon.com/Bearing-Cooling-NF-A14-iPPC-3000-PWM/dp/B00KFCRF1A?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
http://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Isopropyl-Alcohol-Cleaner/dp/B005DNQX3C?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
http://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-852-Non-Abrasive-Cleaning/dp/B004SPCXYO?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage


good luck

TXSteve,  Thanks for the links.  The Titan arrived today... Let's just say you should be glad you didn't buy it...  One dead cube that won't power up at all.  On cube with 2 bad dies and is as stable as a one legged chair.  And there appears to be some issues with the power supplies that I haven't quite figured out.  I can only get one power supply to run one cube at a time.  You try connecting any other PCI-E cables to the power supply and you hear it click and then it won't startup.  Not sure if these are just drawing too much power, or the PSU's are setup to handle it.  Only the 8pin to 6 pin cables from the PSU seem capable of running a single cube with the y cable.   The PSU's are Corsair CS750M's and the rig came with 2 of them.  He also threw in a 1200w HP power supply with some PCI-E cables, but something is not right about those cables.  As soon as you plug them in the power supplies won't run.  None of the 3 power supplies will run with those cables attached.   Not sure if it is me, or if there is something wrong with the cables.

I have been sitting here all night trying to tune and stabilize the remaining running cubes and this one with the 2 bad dies just isn't going to cut it.  I have dialed back to 200mhz and I am still having them lock and disappear from the Advanced page.  At this point I have sent a couple of message on eBay to the seller and no reply yet.  I am about to start the return process on eBay.  This guy said the rig hashed at 223mh.... Well not with one completely dead cube and one that will hardly stay alive...  So I am a little frustrated to say the least. 

I would love you guys feedback on this.  Thanks!

[Mattzees]

I would love you guys feedback on this.  Thanks!

Try to run each cube individually, write down the optimal settings for each die on that cube.  I would consider mine "stable" if they ran for a couple of hours without error. 
Once you have each cube dialed in, try running running them together, adding another cube each time.  First two cubes , then three cubes, etc.
When problems start happening, you'll have a much better idea of what's causing it.

If you decide to keep the rig, REPASTE EVERYTHING.

[TXSteve]

Hi, I think I was bidding on that Titan you bought  

this is what I would do, -- replace the thermal paste, clean the heatsink & pcb with some 99.9% isopropyl alcohol & brush, blow it out real good, and replace the fans with noctura highspeed fans , then let them run for awhile. With the noctura fans & a clean heat sink you may not need any more cooling (dcdc heatsinks)

http://www.amazon.com/Arctic-Silver-High-Density-Polysynthetic-AS5-12GRFB/dp/B001JYVFLY?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
http://www.amazon.com/Bearing-Cooling-NF-A14-iPPC-3000-PWM/dp/B00KFCRF1A?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
http://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-Isopropyl-Alcohol-Cleaner/dp/B005DNQX3C?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage
http://www.amazon.com/MG-Chemicals-852-Non-Abrasive-Cleaning/dp/B004SPCXYO?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage


good luck

TXSteve,  Thanks for the links.  The Titan arrived today... Let's just say you should be glad you didn't buy it...  One dead cube that won't power up at all.  On cube with 2 bad dies and is as stable as a one legged chair.  And there appears to be some issues with the power supplies that I haven't quite figured out.  I can only get one power supply to run one cube at a time.  You try connecting any other PCI-E cables to the power supply and you hear it click and then it won't startup.  Not sure if these are just drawing too much power, or the PSU's are setup to handle it.  Only the 8pin to 6 pin cables from the PSU seem capable of running a single cube with the y cable.   The PSU's are Corsair CS750M's and the rig came with 2 of them.  He also threw in a 1200w HP power supply with some PCI-E cables, but something is not right about those cables.  As soon as you plug them in the power supplies won't run.  None of the 3 power supplies will run with those cables attached.   Not sure if it is me, or if there is something wrong with the cables.

I have been sitting here all night trying to tune and stabilize the remaining running cubes and this one with the 2 bad dies just isn't going to cut it.  I have dialed back to 200mhz and I am still having them lock and disappear from the Advanced page.  At this point I have sent a couple of message on eBay to the seller and no reply yet.  I am about to start the return process on eBay.  This guy said the rig hashed at 223mh.... Well not with one completely dead cube and one that will hardly stay alive...  So I am a little frustrated to say the least.  

I would love you guys feedback on this.  Thanks!

750w is pretty small, it might only reliably run 1 cube. You might want to try troubleshooting with a known good PSU & good cables. The one completely dead cube might be a bad capacitor(I had 2 like that). I'd check the thermal paste(Bad paste can cause a flaky cube)  and clean them , you can wait to replace the fans to see if they run hot.

 I've had mixed results returning stuff to ebay. If you paid with a credit card then threaten to do a cc chargeback(it's always worked for me). If you used the default charge to bank acct it's a lot harder.

good luck

[lightfoot]

TXSteve,  Thanks for the links.  The Titan arrived today... Let's just say you should be glad you didn't buy it...  One dead cube that won't power up at all.  On cube with 2 bad dies and is as stable as a one legged chair.  And there appears to be some issues with the power supplies that I haven't quite figured out.  I can only get one power supply to run one cube at a time.  You try connecting any other PCI-E cables to the power supply and you hear it click and then it won't startup.  Not sure if these are just drawing too much power, or the PSU's are setup to handle it.  Only the 8pin to 6 pin cables from the PSU seem capable of running a single cube with the y cable.   The PSU's are Corsair CS750M's and the rig came with 2 of them.  He also threw in a 1200w HP power supply with some PCI-E cables, but something is not right about those cables.  As soon as you plug them in the power supplies won't run.  None of the 3 power supplies will run with those cables attached.   Not sure if it is me, or if there is something wrong with the cables.

I have been sitting here all night trying to tune and stabilize the remaining running cubes and this one with the 2 bad dies just isn't going to cut it.  I have dialed back to 200mhz and I am still having them lock and disappear from the Advanced page.  At this point I have sent a couple of message on eBay to the seller and no reply yet.  I am about to start the return process on eBay.  This guy said the rig hashed at 223mh.... Well not with one completely dead cube and one that will hardly stay alive...  So I am a little frustrated to say the least. 

I would love you guys feedback on this.  Thanks!

Time to send it into Titan-Land :-)

Seriously, what does the dead one do? Shut down the supply or crash the controller?

C

[lightfoot]

Speaking of which I am fiddling with this cube that had the power rewiring (seller can't take it back yet because on vacation). Runs solid as a rock at 200mhz, but only 50-60mh speed.

So I'm playing with it. Running die 0 at 275mhz works oddly enough for several days before dropping off one supply from die 3. My guess is power fluctuations. Die 2 has divergence in voltages between the supplies that is a bit higher than normal so I am leaving it alone. So we're going to try 275/250/200/175 speeds. See how it works, so far stable.

[GenTarkin]

If this is very indeed legit then finally we have available ASIC on EU!

What does this mean?

[Longsnowsm]

Time to send it into Titan-Land :-)

Seriously, what does the dead one do? Shut down the supply or crash the controller?

C
[/quote]

Thanks for all the feedback from everyone regarding this Titan.  Lightfoot, the dead cube appears to do absolutely nothing.  You plug it in, turn on the power supply, the power supply fan spins so I know it is alive and producing power.  That same power supply works fine with the other cubes.  However the dead cube does absolutely nothing.  No fan, does not appear on the controller, just nothing.  So for the time being while I am trying to get the seller to respond the the return request I am just sitting it aside for the moment and been focusing on those that do hash.  I will try to connect it up one more time and see if I get any other clues as to what is going on with it.  Since the fan isn't spinning I am afraid to connect it to power for long.

The cube with half the dies dead I finally managed to get it to run at 200mhz, but it is pretty fragile/unstable.  I managed to get it to run for a while before they start to disappear from the display.  I found that if I wait long enough the firmware does wake them back up.  So I keep tweaking the voltage to see if I can get them to run longer.  I left the rig running overnight to see what it would look like in the morning and it looks like the GenTarkin firmware does the job of keeping the dies awake.  If I watch the KncMinions page I see that it 

I did start off just one cube at a time and started tweaking until I had it somewhat stable.  Then moved to the next.  For some reason the software does not seem to remember the voltages after I disconnect them and then reattach them.  It seems to remember the speed, not the voltage.  So if I am forced to keep this thing I will have to document it like others mentioned here. 

I pulled out another power supply that I had laying around here and got all 3 of the cubes running at the same time this afternoon and it looks like the best hashing rate that I can reasonably expect is about 130-140mh with the dies that are functioning.  A long shot from the 223mh advertised. 

I used my credit card with Paypal so I am hoping I have a leg to stand on.  eBay says that if I haven't reached an agreement with the seller by Mar 31st that I can get their assistance.  If I haven't heard from the seller by then I am going straight to Paypal and my bank.  So far not a word from the seller.

I did buy some stuff in anticipation of getting a Titan, thermal paste, copper heatsinks, a bi-metal blade for my bandsaw, and some new PSU's.  Most of that stuff is still in route in the mail.  And was looking at the fan upgrade idea.  However I would like a better rig for a starting point to do these upgrades.  I guess I will just have to see how this all shakes out. 

Let me just say that I like how quiet the Titan cubes are.  Compared to my A2 these things are quiet.  I like how they sip power and produce decent hash rates if you can get them tweaked and somewhat stable.  Overall from what I can see with the parts of this that work it has the potential to be very nice.  I can see how easy it would be to get spoiled!  With the GenTarkin firmware it looks like you can get it setup and the firmware will keep it running overnight.  My A2 I don't hardly think about it, you set it and forget it.  It just keeps on cranking.  It doesn't quite look like the Titan is at that level of stability, but it does look promising.  Now I am just yearning for decent rig and for this mess with the DOA unstable rig to be resolved.