Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[dogie]

A company cannot just declare someone is a business. KNC should have verified that the buyer is a business before they confirmed the order. If not = no order.
Easy as that, everbody does it this way. Totally non-understandable court decision in my eyes.

It absolutely can and it was probably in the T&Cs. As doing it reduces liability, removes the protection of the DSRs and generally reduces consumer protection its highly likely that they would have worked this out.

[1714009003]

1714009003

[1714009003]

1714009003

[Searing]

A company cannot just declare someone is a business. KNC should have verified that the buyer is a business before they confirmed the order. If not = no order.
Easy as that, everbody does it this way. Totally non-understandable court decision in my eyes.

It absolutely can and it was probably in the T&Cs. As doing it reduces liability, removes the protection of the DSRs and generally reduces consumer protection its highly likely that they would have worked this out.

or at least in Sweden with ASIC machines you can do this....from the results of the court case that is clear indeed..you mine with an asic built in Sweden you are a business...

(evil they are...nimble they are...)

and of course all the 'being cut off at the knees just when profit (ipo) or equip (miners) were to be had ...all knc's efforts have gone to this ...and as far as I know THIS IS NOT
part of the bankruptcy

http://www.kncminer.com/blog/newsarchive


heh.......evil geniuses they are indeed

[matt4054]

Quote from Scam:

"With us it was about to go to the moon or nowhere. We never aimed to build a medium-sized company. Our investors are not happy, but they understand the situation. "

This is so outrageous. I'm glad that all I have bought from them is a KnC Saturn from second hand market. Their business model sucked from the beginning until the end.

[s1gs3gv]

A company cannot just declare someone is a business. KNC should have verified that the buyer is a business before they confirmed the order.

IIRC agreeing to be treated as a business customer was part of the Titan purchase agreement T&C.

[s1gs3gv]

http://www.coindesk.com/kncminer-declares-bankruptcy-cites-upcoming-bitcoin-subsidy-halving/

Good riddance KNC. BTC is having a little celebration today too.

~LOL~

[Searing]

A company cannot just declare someone is a business. KNC should have verified that the buyer is a business before they confirmed the order.

IIRC agreeing to be treated as a business customer was part of the Titan purchase agreement T&C.

NOT at the time I ordered my Neptune and converted it to a Titan (Feb 2015) THAT came later..I looked....they litterally just added it and tried to back
date the web pages .same when they said it was 90 day warranty and tried to back date the pages as it was origianally a scrypt miner to an ltc miner
when they had multipool issues on  first firmware...

So NO...IF my Nov 2014 unit was in the class action ..it would still be applied by the Swedish decision that I was a business despite that.....the ruling was

if you bought a miner you were automatically a business ....w/o having to agree to such ...all that the added later (not that you can tell with knc forums

down on the above controversy's in chat)

They sold it as a 'consumer home miner product' like the previous Jupiter's etc.....and only after the fact did they say it was you are  business later (cause they could)

probably because I know of ONE GUY the first one..who DID get his miner refunded under EU consumer protection law (on knc forums) due to shoddy workmanship of

the first units..then suddenly all this you are a business stuff pop'd up (or at least I remember how this worked at the time) also ONE person also on knc forums

got redress thru a Swedish consumer protection agency the same way...but others tried and knc convinced them that users were a business so that agency

stopped or was no longer able to process refunds in that manner.....they locked up this stuff pretty quick ...again how I remember it ..others from knc forum days

can chime in here

again 'we do evil well' tm knc

[s1gs3gv]

A company cannot just declare someone is a business. KNC should have verified that the buyer is a business before they confirmed the order.

IIRC agreeing to be treated as a business customer was part of the Titan purchase agreement T&C.

NOT at the time I ordered my Neptune and converted it to a Titan (Feb 2015) THAT came later..I looked....

I am not defending the tossers but I was a 2nd day Titan pre-order and it was in there at that time.

[retro72]

Hey Guys

Sorry I haven't been more forthcoming with info on the case but as you can imagine there is still a lot going on behind the scenes and with KNC now bankrupt (karma's a bitch huh) we need to figure out how this affects us. Once we all know where we stand I'll be back to give a full account of the case from my perspective, as I cannot speak for the others plaintiffs and will try to answer any questions you have.

Cheers

R

[el_rlee]

Is there something like a "compulsory settlement" in Sweden? Do you have to have your bankruptcy filed before that is possible?

[tolip_wen]

I hope my/our postings here played some small part in the education of their 16nm investors.

I also hope those Black Hole investors are very very vindictive.


YMMV

[The Avenger]

I also hope those Black Hole investors are very very vindictive.

Me too. We know they are angry, let's hope they put that into action I'd say kfc deceived them as much as they did us. At the very least, kfc probably pretended to be experts when they are no more than amateurs. Core vs Classic anyone?

No doubt kfc had to sign contracts in the VC's favor, the same way we agreed to T&C's that favoured kfc.

So hopefully VC's can rip them to pieces and take a substantial amount/all their retirement btc from them

[The Avenger]

There are people who are suggesting the kfc bankruptcy is just a company restucture and not really anything actually bad for Scam and the gang. If shit doesn't hit the fan somewhere, then it's most likely they are using it a way to get rid of the soon to be unprofitable mining side of business at the least cost.

They are keeping the XBT side of the business, which is where to keep an eye on developments I think.

It'll be interesting to see if Scam remains on the board of XBT Provider AB. He's listed as one of the executives.
http://www.allabolag.se/5590013313/befattningar

They've mentioned the bankruptcy on their blog http://xbtprovider.com/lang_en/news

Hopefully they've fucked themselves, as it states in this FT article the business has some reliance on kfc mining
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/2015/04/29/2128137/calling-all-muppets-bitcoin-miner-has-some-bitcoin-etns-to-sell/

i.e.
    "We are aiming to do all hedging in the open market but have the option to access bitcoin liquidity from KnC Group in case of emergency."

A further comment included the line:

    "We have very strict internal rules regarding exposure and operational risks, all scrutinized by our compliance officer and risk manager as well as Nasdaq OMX. Counterparty risk is greatly reduced by the fact that KnC Group guarantees the liabilities of XBT Provider as specified in our prospectus (under translation to English)"

Also interesting to note in that article is the statement:

"Namely, KnC was forced to depreciate its ASIC infrastructure assets (bitcoin miners) because of the high pace of development in the industry for cryptographic currencies.

The document adds that the number of employees must as a result be reduced in 2015 to reflect these costs."

As you'll (not) remember, Scam gave totally different reasons for these layoffs in his statement (LYING AS USUAL):
http://www.breakit.se/artikel/2692/ett-tiotal-heltidsanstallda-tvingas-ga-fran-bitcoinbolaget-knc-miner

"According to Sam Cole redundancies due partly to the company encountered unexpected competition and partly due to the expected reduction in energy tax in Sweden dragged on."

XBT's twitter is the only source of hope, which says they have stopped trading:

XBT Provider ?@xbtprovider  May 28
We are meeting with Nasdaq on Monday. Trying to resume trading in our instruments ASAP. All questions welcome to info@xbtprovider.com

 XBT Provider ?@xbtprovider  May 27 Stockholm, Sverige
Trading halted but XBT Provider and investor assets are not affected by the KnC bankruptcy. Our instruments are always fully hedged

Go Scam! Bring everyone down with you

[adaseb]

If this company is bankrupt, why are they still finding blocks?

[The Avenger]

http://xbtprovider.com/lang_en/news

Instruments’ trading halted pending approval of new guarantor
Monday 30th May

STOCKHOLM, Sweden., May. 30, 2016 -- Trading on XBT Provider’s bitcoin ETNs, Bitcoin Tracker One and Bitcoin Tracker EUR, will be halted pending approval of a new guarantor

XBT Provider is currently in discussion with multiple interested parties and is planning to present a new guarantor to Nasdaq as soon as an agreement has been reached

The reason for the trading halt is the bankruptcy of KnC Group AB, XBT Provider’s former guarantor. That event does not, however, in any way affect investor assets, since the notes are always fully hedged by holding the underlying (bitcoins) in secure storage.

XBT Provider is working hard in order to resume trading in the instruments on Nasdaq Nordic and will keep the markets informed on any developments.The value of the instruments can be followed on our web-page xbtprovider.com.

If there will be no quick resolution, XBT Provider will offer a redemption program for investors to accommodate those wishing to exit the instrument before a new guarantor is in place.

Bitcoin Tracker One and Bitcoin Tracker EUR are designed to provide investors with convenient and liquid access to the returns of the underlying asset, bitcoin, and exposure to blockchain technology. XBT provider is at all times fully hedged, and always hold bitcoins equivalent to the value of ETNs issued. XBT Provider's prospectus is approved by the Swedish FSA (Finansinspektionen) and is issued for trading on Nasdaq Nordic.

So it seems Scam didn't even tell this company (that he is an executive of) that kfc were about to go bankrupt. I hope they pay him a bonus  

[s1gs3gv]

XBT Provider ?@xbtprovider  May 27 Stockholm, Sverige
Trading halted but XBT Provider and investor assets are not affected by the KnC bankruptcy. Our instruments are always fully hedged

Fully hedged by claims on a KNC bitcoin stash ? With KNC now in receivership, aren't those coins KNC company assets against which secured creditors can stake a claim ? Or did they whip 'em out from underneath KNC and move them to XBT Provider ?

Murky.

[The Avenger]

XBT Provider ?@xbtprovider  May 27 Stockholm, Sverige
Trading halted but XBT Provider and investor assets are not affected by the KnC bankruptcy. Our instruments are always fully hedged

Fully hedged by claims on a KNC bitcoin stash ? With KNC now in receivership, aren't those coins KNC company assets against which secured creditors can stake a claim ? Or did they whip 'em out from underneath KNC and move them to XBT Provider ?

Murky.

It would be "intent to defraud" if Scam/kfc were hiding assets before declaring bankruptcy. However, Sweden has very lax laws on BTC right now. They didn't even charge kfc tax on their mining earnings! So maybe kfc can/has moved btc to xbt, as it isn't "real" money to the Swedish authorities?

I mean, Scam is an executive in XBT. Why is an IT guy an executive in a company dealing in financial products? What does he bring? You would assume btc, certainly ain't looks.

I saw one comment on twitter that asked if XBT's guarantor was kfc and kfc are now bankrupt, shouldn't the fund be liquidated? And they said no, we just get a new guarantor. Makes a real joke of the concept of a guarantor!

Potential Investor: So what guarantees your fund?
XBT: Nothing.
Potential Investor: And what if things go wrong?
XBT: You lose everything.
Potential Investor: Cool, I'm in! Do you take credit card or would you prefer a suitcase stuffed with cash?
XBT: Suitcase. Tack så mycket!

We haven't seen high levels of morals or integrity from kfc/Scam in the past, but I'm sure it's all "legal" and non-murky

[edgar]

b-b-but sam cole is brilliant - why the hate guys....why the hate?

i just dont get it

[poodle63]

Oh! I just received mail from app dollies last month, and they addressed closed operation business, and that soon KNC bankrupted already.

[The Avenger]

b-b-but sam cole is brilliant - why the hate guys....why the hate?

i just dont get it

If we are doing sarcasm (   ), why the f@#k am I not on this list?!?! And what am I going to do with my photoshop skills now?  

https://translate.google.co.uk/translate?hl=en&sl=sv&u=http://www.breakit.se/artikel/3884/avito-grundaren-om-investeringen-i-knc-miner-vi-angrar-ingenting

"Here are the losers in the KNC Miner crash - we have the entire list"

Here is the full list of investors that are now at risk of losing their money.

1. Accel

Investment: 83.4 million crowns.

2. Creandum

Investment: 57.7 million crowns.

3. Gullspångsälven Invest / Isac Brandberg

Investment: SEK 20.4 million.

4. Leif Edlund

Investment: 14.3 million crowns.

5. Anders Ström

Investment 13.8 million.

6. Back in Black Capital

Investment: 10.4 million crowns.

7. GP Bullhound

Investment: SEK 9.5 million.

8. Philip Engelbert

Investment: around 2.5 million.

9. Jonas Nordlander

Investment: around 2.5 million.

10. Cnv Invest AB

Investment: 864 914 SEK.

11. Cole S Holding

Investment: 864 914 SEK.

12. Michael Unnebäck

Investment: 864 914 SEK.

13. Johan / Martin Wattin (Investment in knowledge AB)

Investment: 814 389 SEK.

14. Eugen Steiner

Investment: 572 212 SEK.

15. Alchip Technologies

Investment: 276 791 SEK.

16. Setraco

Investment: 192 108 SEK.

17. APL Investment Group

Investment: 74 693 SEK.

18. Investment Co. Profit Managemnet

Investment: 74 693 SEK.

19. Jumbo View Group Ltd.

Investment: 55 282 SEK.

20. Xelmo Invest

Investment: 34 539 SEK.

While the big investors seem okay about it, someone's got to be pissed, right?

And it seems from the datorhall stabbing that Swedish guys like to settle their differences with a knife

So Scam better start working on his knife skills asap



He's already pretty good at the underhanded move and stabbing customers in the back.

But let's see what he's like face to face with an angry investor  

[s1gs3gv]

Was KNC mining LTC with a Titan farm that just went off line ?

Next LTC difficulty - 16%


https://bitcoinwisdom.com/litecoin/difficulty

I wouldn't put it past these bastardos to have been front-running us on LTC even before they shipped customer Titans.
Maybe now somebody at KNC will feel free to talk ...