Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[mrb]

Mars

This device will be the first mass produced product and is available for purchase in the next few days. The key details around this device are as follows:

    Over 6GH/s
    48x IC CYCLONE IV FPGA 115K on board chips  See the sites below for more details on the chips we will be using in our Mars product.

Cyclone IV is 60nm. I guess we can expect roughly the same power efficiency than the BFL FPGA Single which is built out of the Stratix III (65nm), so ~10 Mhash/Joule.

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[sickpig]

anyway if true (2000$ vouchers) that means that we're going to pay
mars only 795$. it seems a fair price as long as jupiter will be delivered
in a reasonable time frame.
 

How is $795 a fair price when BFL is offering a product with the same hashing power for $275? https://products.butterflylabs.com/5-gh-s-bitcoin-miner.html

If what KNC have said is true, buying a mars would mean that:

- you get  2000$ discount on jupiter,
- you'll get the same place in the order queue for the Jupiter purchase
- you'll be able to get Mars quickly since, it will be "available for purchase
  in the next few days."

Having said that we also know that BFL 5Ghs miner exists but we
don't know when you will get it if you  place an order now.
so taking into account all above points it seems fair to say that
795 is fair price  

Obviously all the KNC statements made so far have to be true,
and I'm not sure about that.  To be honest I have to admit I would
have chosen a different plan if I were in their shoes , let's say a higher
focus on getting Jupiter ready asap leaving the Mars alone; or if they
had to gather some money for  the Jupiter development I'd had preferred
a lower price for Mars, let say something  near the 1500$. 

That said where do you get the $795 price and how is it fair?

2795$ - 2000$ = 795$

Yeah I agree the Jupiter would completely change the game. If it's -$2000 for people who buy the Mars then that is only $5000 which is somewhat reasonable for the amount of hashing power it offers. The question is how reliable it is, how efficient is it, and I agree why does it need water cooling and how will that work?

I do agree with you. Reliability, effectiveness, and *time*
are key factors. And it would be greatly appreciated if KNC
would be so kind to share more info about those in the near
future, the sooner the better.

[sickpig]

Use the sales one. Sam replied to me directly. His direct email is sam@kncminer.com

thanks for the address I will email him shortly
and I let you know if I got some feedbacks

[zedicus]

22 pages of **** on the wall 22 pages of **** .. if one of those pages just happen to fall 21 pages of **** on the wall!


Everyone now!!! ... cmon pizza you too..


.. page 60 coming up fast!



 

[dan99]

Sam, will reply to you in fact pretty quick, however would he LISTEN and take note of your comments and suggestions? I used to sell electrolux vacuum cleaner and many of the comments and feedback are readily accepted by the manufacturer including pricing... just a thought.

[seleme]

Their price for fpga is not that big if you compare it to other fpga offers. Someone opened a thread yesterday selling 400mh/s for 350, that would count as 5200 for this hashing power and that thread attracted lot of interest.

It is expensive when you compare it to asics but it's not asic and if it could be used for mining litecoins for ex. it's pretty fair price, specially if you intend to buy jupiter later to get 2000$ discount. And I guess it can be used for litecoins too, it's not asic.

Only question is timeframe of delivering, if it is fast one, might not be a bad buy.

[zedicus]

Dan99 said it the best  ---------->  "$2955 for 50gh/s to Mars $2,795 for 6gh/s??"



classic switcharoo, promise one thing.. get people to sign up and show interest.. and then bayum!



What happens if you order the mars in a couple days and they take 3-4 months to get it to you and then they switch the "predicted" price of jupiter to 12k and then say thats gonna take another 7 months?


ill tell ya what happens.. You will end up  filling the sink with water and dunkin youre head in indefinitely! lolz



If they were not that kind of people or not that kind of company you would say nawww they wont do that!!


But now since they clearly knew the whole time they were not gonna be doing the 50ghs, you expect them to pull a switch again ..



Might as well just said fek it we are taking pre orders.. lol




If i told you i was selling bio degradable penguins & i came out with a styrofoam duck would you buy it?


Pitch line: Cmon guys the abs plastic beak and feet is tough and resistant to breakage.  You will be able to take a hammer to it no problem..

[mrspencer]

Dan99 said it the best  ---------->  "$2955 for 50gh/s to Mars $2,795 for 6gh/s??"



classic switcharoo, promise one thing.. get people to sign up and show interest.. and then bayum!



What happens if you order the mars in a couple days and they take 3-4 months to get it to you and then they switch the "predicted" price of jupiter to 12k and then say thats gonna take another 7 months?


ill tell ya what happens.. You will end up  filling the sink with water and dunkin youre head in indefinitely! lolz



If they were not that kind of people or not that kind of company you would say nawww they wont do that!!


But now since they clearly knew the whole time they were not gonna be doing the 50ghs, you expect them to pull a switch again.





Might as well just said fek it we are taking pre orders.. lol




If i told you i was selling bio degradable penguins & i came out with a styrofoam duck would you buy it?


Pitch line: Cmon guys the abs plastic beak and feet is tough and resistant to breakage.  You will be able to take a hammer to it no problem..

Look this is BFL all over again - almost a year later. FPGA are easier to do - because there are already chips out there.

ASIC? Well you know the score.

I'm saying if they need upfront cost - they should be upfront about it!  No shame about it. Show us a working prototype and we'll get behind it. Be straight - if you need 10k per 250GH/s unit - say it.

Don't go about this saying its about loyality, and peddle people FPGA that will be obsolete once it ships.

[FlappySocks]

I'm saying if they need upfront cost - they should be upfront about it!  No shame about it. Show us a working prototype and we'll get behind it. Be straight - if you need 10k per 250GH/s unit - say it.

Don't go about this saying its about loyality, and peddle people FPGA that will be obsolete once it ships.

Agree.

Once thay have the money, and built the first run of 250GH/s boxes, just how tempting would it be to keep them an extra month or two for "testing".  They then ship just in time for the next batch to be made, by which time the DIY ASICs are online,  and 250GH/s doesn't look so good anymore.

[Bitcoinorama]

Have to agree, can't see a 6gh/s FPGA being anything other than a waste of resources. Once BFL launch their singles (imminently)  and the difficulty shoots +30million then this 6gh/s FPGA is generating $10 a day and no where near recouping $795 aside any additional bonus funds and that's *if* there is any headway on launching prior to BFL rolling out their products. As soon as the little singles and singles, let alone minirigs roll out the FPGA is no consolation to be I possession of...especially if there are delays in bringing the 250gh/s Jupiter into customer's hands.

The race for Jupiter is against the cheaper (although not necessarily as well refined) DIY open source kits with bulk (and cheap) Avalon 280Mh/s chips. Refinement doesn't really come into this, speed of delivery of a working model trumps everything.

BFL royally screwed themselves committing to small (allbeit pretty) form factor aesthetically appealing cases prior to having working prototypes!! (Aesthetics over function for a product of such minute timespan) And now it's costing both them and their customers. Right now they have a lot of empty waste metal cases and may need to split orders and create more cases to fulfil current orders. They are having to retrofit as they didn't design a prototype and then build a case around it. It's almost a case of a trying to fit a square peg through a round hole, especially for a product with such a finite timeframe of usability.

KNCMiner need to demonstrate a working 250GH/s ASIC miner prior to accepting any funds for Mars or Jupiter and I don't see why ORSoC wouldn't freely help them achieve this ASAP prior to any preorder as it's in their best interests both as a means to secure funds from potential customers and uphold their reputation integrity wise!

[rograz]

If i told you i was selling bio degradable penguins & i came out with a styrofoam duck would you buy it?

[Cablez]

In all seriousness, Just say NO to preorders!!   It is time the risk for these 'ventures' started falling on the people creating them. I will be here here with cash when/if you actually have something to deliver that can actually return an investment.

[Bitcoinorama]

In summary; You buy a Mars 6Gh/s FPGA for $2.7k (plus shipping??) and you are stuck committing yourself to order the 250Gh/s Jupiter for $7k now irrespective of when it launches and whether the DIY crowd beat them to market with a better and cheaper product using Avalon's bulk chips (shipping in a month) and open source pcb and case design (available in two weeks) or swallow a $2.7k loss to switch to the DIY option if KNCMiner and ORSoC are caught dragging their feet! (Or risk waiting and waiting until they are ready to ship a product that performs to expectations without costing them or the customer more in the long run - such as BFL are doing right and you can see how that's working out for them). This is not a healthy position to be in.

Both options will be competing to refine their product offerings in the same timescale with KNCMiner asking for a premium over the DIY hobbyist set.

I'm not knocking on KNCminers ability to deliver, but they have no prior history or experience and time is such a huge factor, that this Mars deal and question mark over Jupiter is not the best solution for them or their customers.

[seleme]

Nobody should buy with preorders, I guess people have learn that already.

If you have product in stock then ask money for it - it's simple as that.

I'm definitely considering to buy Mars, it's much better deal than some of asics sold recently as it's cheaper and can be used for other stuff and not thrown away after becoming non-profitable for mining bitcoins but only if I can get it in a week after I pay for it.

Otherwise, sorry, I'm not financing anyone just like that.

[FlappySocks]

ORSoC presumably just want to sell chips.  Maybe the better route for them is to concentrate on manufacturing those, and let the DIY community take care of the hardware that supports it.
OSSoC/kncminor can then start working on the next generation, manufacture those, and so on.

The problem with manufacturing mining kit that works out of the box, is it has to be built to a minimum specification to avoid warranty replacements, and regulatory issues.  And then you need the staff to deal with all the support queries afterwards from dummies that don't know how to plug it in, or install the USB driver on their old Win95 PC etc.  It's a right hassle.

It's worse in this situation, as it's an arms race. You have to ship the product on time.

Just send us the chips!  We will help do the rest. 

[Luckybit]

Okay I crunched some numbers and on second thought this isn't a bad buy.
It has energy efficiency and electricity is not cheap. It is expensive for 6Ghash but there aren't any alternatives that are better.

[Luckybit]

Nobody should buy with preorders, I guess people have learn that already.

If you have product in stock then ask money for it - it's simple as that.

I'm definitely considering to buy Mars, it's much better deal than some of asics sold recently as it's cheaper and can be used for other stuff and not thrown away after becoming non-profitable for mining bitcoins but only if I can get it in a week after I pay for it.

Otherwise, sorry, I'm not financing anyone just like that.

I'm with you. I reached the exact same conclusion. I think Mars can last us through July and honestly that is good enough. By July difficulty will be through the roof but at the same time we will have made somewhat of a profit and will be in line for the 250Ghash product. Provided the product really is only $5000 that is a steal of a price if we were to get it in the fall.

The problem is I doubt we will get it by the fall but that is another matter.

[Anvi]

Dear kncminer. Can I pay by "cash on delivery" or once the product is ready for shipping? I'm located in Helsinki, Finland
I'm scared to pay before the products are finished, demonstrated, and packaged for shipping.

Also the Mars miner price point seems high to me. BFL's non-existing BitForce 5 GH/s SC miner is advertised at $274.00, which might actually make ROI, if they ship during this year.

6GH+/s miner at $ 2,795.00 is likely to never meet ROI.. 6500Mhash @dif 8974296.01489/ profit per Month $1,524.78, but fact is that difficulty will take 2 huge leaps for every following month. In couple months the profit figure is probably near $100 per month.

Upgrade protection built in to any Mars purchase with vouchers for up to $2000 off of any Jupiter purchase.

Does this mean, that I get $2000 off Jupiter price with a single Mars purchase?

[Luckybit]

In summary; You buy a Mars 6Gh/s FPGA for $2.7k (plus shipping??) and you are stuck committing yourself to order the 250Gh/s Jupiter for $7k now irrespective of when it launches and whether the DIY crowd beat them to market with a better and cheaper product using Avalon's bulk chips (shipping in a month) and open source pcb and case design (available in two weeks) or swallow a $2.7k loss to switch to the DIY option if KNCMiner and ORSoC are caught dragging their feet! (Or risk waiting and waiting until they are ready to ship a product that performs to expectations without costing them or the customer more in the long run - such as BFL are doing right and you can see how that's working out for them). This is not a healthy position to be in.

Both options will be competing to refine their product offerings in the same timescale with KNCMiner asking for a premium over the DIY hobbyist set.

I'm not knocking on KNCminers ability to deliver, but they have no prior history or experience and time is such a huge factor, that this Mars deal and question mark over Jupiter is not the best solution for them or their customers.

It wouldn't necessarily be a loss because 6Ghash is still enough to mine with but it depends on what the DIY crowd can offer and at what price? If they can offer 20Ghash at $3000 then we will all be stuck with 6Ghash and that would completely suck. How many Ghash are the DIY crowd talking about offering and at what price?

[FlappySocks]

How many Ghash are the DIY crowd talking about offering and at what price?

2.82Ghas for around 2.0 - 2.5 BTC

Needless to say, the ordering has gone crazy.