Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[Twh]

I was under the impression that Sam, being from the UK, wouldn't misspell the word delivery--TWICE!

Their website is full of spelling errors too. Hopefully they are better at making and delivering ASICs than English.

Yes I know I only have 12 posts and I shouldn't be pointing out spelling mistakes of others.

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[KS]

In answer to the VAT, 600w is indeed correct, I emailed as I was under the impression originally it was inclusive;

"Our site is a available from all the countries in the world. We list all our prices in USD without any taxes or Dilevery included for those reasons.

All taxes and dilevery costs are calculated  at the point of checkout."

So unless you can claim it back, it's just become more expensive if anticipated an inclusive price.

Mars = $3,493.75
Saturn = $4,743.75
Jupiter = $8,743.75

I was under the impression that VAT didn't apply if the product was being shipped out of the EU?  Was that totally wrong?  (I'm in the US)

I believe youre right and thats why they didnt include the vat in the price... though i wonder... in germany its so that you have to include the vat, otherwise you go against the law. I thought it goes the same way in sweden too.

AFAIK, if you don't specify that the price is without VAT, it is considered VAT inclusive. They also have to specify the VAT rate somewhere, they need to have Terms and Conditions (which they don't, the link sends you to the page you're on) etc. There is probably a provision for internet sales that needs to be specified somewhere too.

[glowkeeper]

In answer to the VAT, 600w is indeed correct, I emailed as I was under the impression originally it was inclusive;

"Our site is a available from all the countries in the world. We list all our prices in USD without any taxes or Dilevery included for those reasons.

All taxes and dilevery costs are calculated  at the point of checkout."

So unless you can claim it back, it's just become more expensive if anticipated an inclusive price.

Mars = $3,493.75
Saturn = $4,743.75
Jupiter = $8,743.75

I was under the impression that VAT didn't apply if the product was being shipped out of the EU?  Was that totally wrong?  (I'm in the US)

From Sam reply to my question:

All taxes and dilevery costs are different depending on where in the world you are.  For those reasons we list all prices without any taxes or dilevert costs included.

Eh? Delivery costs to different parts of the world may be different, but you tend to pay the taxes of the country you are purchasing the goods FROM.

[sickpig]

In answer to the VAT, 600w is indeed correct, I emailed as I was under the impression originally it was inclusive;

"Our site is a available from all the countries in the world. We list all our prices in USD without any taxes or Dilevery included for those reasons.

All taxes and dilevery costs are calculated  at the point of checkout."

So unless you can claim it back, it's just become more expensive if anticipated an inclusive price.

Mars = $3,493.75
Saturn = $4,743.75
Jupiter = $8,743.75

I was under the impression that VAT didn't apply if the product was being shipped out of the EU?  Was that totally wrong?  (I'm in the US)

From Sam reply to my question:

All taxes and dilevery costs are different depending on where in the world you are.  For those reasons we list all prices without any taxes or dilevert costs included.

Eh? Delivery costs to different parts of the world may be different, but you tend to pay the taxes of the country you are purchasing the goods FROM.

I'm not an expert, just quoting Sam reply (spelling errors included).

[vvic]

Come on guys, English isn't native for them, give them a break
I'm pretty sure they can spell in Swedish without any errors.

[MZD]

If my order number for a Jupiter is 32xx when could I reasonably expect a delivery? I assume there are less orders for these and order numbers lumped all devices together...

P.S. What is the likely difficulty when these things ship? 

[stripykitteh]

If my order number for a Jupiter is 32xx when could I reasonably expect a delivery? I assume there are less orders for these and order numbers lumped all devices together...

P.S. What is the likely difficulty when these things ship?  

The official line is if everything goes well* the first batch of Jupiters will be made in September, and all the others they have orders for will be made in October. Then add on the time to deliver from their factory to you. I'm a #38xx order so I'm expecting mine would be made in October, but it really depends on how many people follow through with payment, which always requires a small leap of faith.

*Caveat emptor

Difficulty? Who knows, but you should do some projections based on 5x, 10x, 20x when you get delivery and see if the maths still adds up for you.

[MZD]

I think even under the worst case scenario (baring bitcoin crash) the machine will pay for itself within a month. Given that even a difficulty well over 1,000,000,000 would still be profitable...

[matt4054]

I think even under the worst case scenario (baring bitcoin crash) the machine will pay for itself within a month. Given that even a difficulty well over 1,000,000,000 would still be profitable...

That is true by the numbers, although it sounds too good to be... true. And there is competition along the way, think ASICMINER Gen2 chips (65nm?) and AVALON now focusing on chips with many third-party manufacturers popping up, and no working prototype for KnC miner to back these numbers, as far as I know...

Wait and see.

[dan99]

I think even under the worst case scenario (baring bitcoin crash) the machine will pay for itself within a month. Given that even a difficulty well over 1,000,000,000 would still be profitable...

You are right .. before Avalon went into production many skeptics and nay slayers talk about difficulty and what not .. now those who bought the 80gh/s or 65gh/s miner months ago were happily mining  away and probably they will buy more mining machine from the profit they make from these avalon miner . With more miners they even make more..and more but they still be someone who come here talking about difficulty and what not .. and their story continues...  

[stripykitteh]

I agree that difficulty projections in the ASIC era have usually fallen short. I don't want to give anyone false encouragement about that, though. I've done my own worst-case and average-case scenarios about this project and am comfortable with the risk, at the moment.

[Bitcoinorama]

The big worry is who the unknown players are. Yifu himself said at the recent Bitcoin '13, there could be wealthy vc's developing their own asics for their own use and if they started in Feb, you wouldn't know for a few months before coming online. So their potential impact is a huge question mark until asics are truly distributed in the wild that could negate their centralisation. In essence a 51% is feasible until enough competition exists.

Yifu himself is selling 10's of thousands, but to whom outside this forum, no one knows!!?

[ecliptic]

I think even under the worst case scenario (baring bitcoin crash) the machine will pay for itself within a month. Given that even a difficulty well over 1,000,000,000 would still be profitable...

This isn't even close to true.  There is a massive amount of hash power coming this summer, before even the first units of this would ship.  It will be at least 650 TH/sec, possibly in excess of 1 PH/sec (the variance is based on how many chips BFL can produce of their 68k x ~2.8 Gh/sec chip among others such as additional avalon orders)

And this is only from the 100% public and documented sources (Avalon, ASICMiner, BFL, etc)  This doesn't include ANYTHING from Kncminer, unknown sources, people without confirmed ASICs but still in design, etc.

The only people who are going to make it big with ASIC are the ones who got it prior to this summer.  Buying ASIC now is like buying GPUs 6 months ago.  You'll break even, but it will take many months to do so.

The advantage of asic now is long-term mining, because electricity prices will force out all other types of miners, it would require an absurd amount of difficulty to make even the 130nm asic's non-profitable @ electricity costs

[Phinnaeus Gage]

Come on guys, English isn't native for them, give them a break
I'm pretty sure they can spell in Swedish without any errors.

Au contraire! The rest of the clan may not be well-versed in English, but the person who sent the reply of which I quoted--Samuel James Cole--was born and raised in the UK, hence pointing out the faux pas.

[glowkeeper]

.....You'll break even, but it will take many months to do so.

If the rest of the financial industry realises that the roi can be measured in months, rather than tens of years, then it'll really take off.....

[glowkeeper]

Come on guys, English isn't native for them, give them a break
I'm pretty sure they can spell in Swedish without any errors.

Au contraire! The rest of the clan may not be well-versed in English, but the person who sent the reply of which I quoted--Samuel James Cole--was born and raised in the UK, hence pointing out the faux pas.

I like the idea of using French to point out errors in English. Très bien!

[nii236]

I hope the size and weight numbers get updated soon, it'll affect shipping estimates a lot.

[yolo2222]

Come on guys, English isn't native for them, give them a break
I'm pretty sure they can spell in Swedish without any errors.

Au contraire! The rest of the clan may not be well-versed in English, but the person who sent the reply of which I quoted--Samuel James Cole--was born and raised in the UK, hence pointing out the faux pas.

I like the idea of using French to point out errors in English. Très bien!

To the contrary. Person A makes a statement. Person B says, "Au contraire." Meaning: to the contrary, the opposite is true.

[SebastianJu]

The big worry is who the unknown players are. Yifu himself said at the recent Bitcoin '13, there could be wealthy vc's developing their own asics for their own use and if they started in Feb, you wouldn't know for a few months before coming online. So their potential impact is a huge question mark until asics are truly distributed in the wild that could negate their centralisation. In essence a 51% is feasible until enough competition exists.

Yifu himself is selling 10's of thousands, but to whom outside this forum, no one knows!!?

There is a forum thread where someone found out the address where avalon sends all the payments for 10k chips to... its quite a bunch of TH till now...

[Fishbones]

In answer to the VAT, 600w is indeed correct, I emailed as I was under the impression originally it was inclusive;

"Our site is a available from all the countries in the world. We list all our prices in USD without any taxes or Dilevery included for those reasons.

All taxes and dilevery costs are calculated  at the point of checkout."

So unless you can claim it back, it's just become more expensive if anticipated an inclusive price.

Mars = $3,493.75
Saturn = $4,743.75
Jupiter = $8,743.75

I was under the impression that VAT didn't apply if the product was being shipped out of the EU?  Was that totally wrong?  (I'm in the US)

I believe youre right and thats why they didnt include the vat in the price... though i wonder... in germany its so that you have to include the vat, otherwise you go against the law. I thought it goes the same way in sweden too.

  I did indeed anticipate a tax inclusive price, as with ALL sites in the EU. Also, nowhere on the KNC site does it state that tax is not included. I see this as false advertising.

So if I order from BFL, do they deduct the tax? (I'm in the EU)