Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[dentldir]

Or if you read the response without confirmation bias:

If you run the chip at 125C, an abnormally high running temperature, you can dissipate the heat with room temperature air (25C).

[dogie]

Or if you read the response without confirmation bias:

If you run the chip at 125C, an abnormally high running temperature, you can dissipate the heat with room temperature air (25C).

Wrong way round. If you run the chip under normal conditions with a room temp of 25C, the chip loads at 125C.

tldr: They have zero thermal headroom. You can say 'worst case' all you like, but look what happened with BFL and others. Power consumption is always more than expected, so these aren't 'worse case', these are realistic simulations. I really can't imagine them being able to run at these temps consistently, stably.

[Kuroth]

I think I will leave the Engineering to the Experts..   

[Loredo]

Or if you read the response without confirmation bias:

If you run the chip at 125C, an abnormally high running temperature, you can dissipate the heat with room temperature air (25C).

Wrong way round. If you run the chip under normal conditions with a room temp of 25C, the chip loads at 125C.

tldr: They have zero thermal headroom. You can say 'worst case' all you like, but look what happened with BFL and others. Power consumption is always more than expected, so these aren't 'worse case', these are realistic simulations. I really can't imagine them being able to run at these temps consistently, stably.

No!  Read the response.  It's a simulation, and they set the chip's temperature artificially high at 125.  

I was reminded earlier to never initially ascribe malice when simple human tribe instincts can explain as much of someone's behavior.  

After all, Chicago Bears fans will badmouth the Packers; they hate the Packers because they love the Bears.  Buick owners would badmouth Oldsmobiles (easy to do, now, that they're no longer made) because the Olds was not a Buick.  

So it is with those who go onto one thread or another and badmouth that vendor.  Sure, there are some whose job is to shill and counter-shill, and there are those who deeply believe that one or the other vendors are a con-game, if not a criminal fraud.  But they're quite rare.  Most posters are likely just people who identify strongly with one of the {BFL/Avalon/AM/KnC/bitfury/[scam of the week]} tribes.  

All others, therefore, suck, and they're going to explain why to us.

Now, I'm going to go where I should have gone directly, and that's to catch up on zerohedge dot com, which is part of my Saturday afternoon routine.  That where the real FUD lives; you guys are amateurs compared to that tin foil crowd.

[Cablez]

Well while they are still engineering this thing it would be nice if they ditched the cube and lined all 4 units up so that the exhaust from the first set of chips isn't used to cool the second set. Even with their spacing offsets it will not be ideal. A linear arrangement of units would be much cooler.

[dogie]

Or if you read the response without confirmation bias:

If you run the chip at 125C, an abnormally high running temperature, you can dissipate the heat with room temperature air (25C).

Wrong way round. If you run the chip under normal conditions with a room temp of 25C, the chip loads at 125C.

tldr: They have zero thermal headroom. You can say 'worst case' all you like, but look what happened with BFL and others. Power consumption is always more than expected, so these aren't 'worse case', these are realistic simulations. I really can't imagine them being able to run at these temps consistently, stably.

No!  Read the response.  It's a simulation, and they set the chip's temperature artificially high at 125.  

I was reminded earlier to never initially ascribe malice when simple human tribe instincts can explain as much of someone's behavior.  

After all, Chicago Bears fans will badmouth the Packers; they hate the Packers because they love the Bears.  Buick owners would badmouth Oldsmobiles (easy to do, now, that they're no longer made) because the Olds was not a Buick.  

So it is with those who go onto one thread or another and badmouth that vendor.  Sure, there are some whose job is to shill and counter-shill, and there are those who deeply believe that one or the other vendors are a con-game, if not a criminal fraud.  But they're quite rare.  Most posters are likely just people who identify strongly with one of the {BFL/Avalon/AM/KnC/bitfury/[scam of the week]} tribes.  

All others, therefore, suck, and they're going to explain why to us.

Now, I'm going to go where I should have gone directly, and that's to catch up on zerohedge dot com, which is part of my Saturday afternoon routine.  That where the real FUD lives; you guys are amateurs compared to that tin foil crowd.

Read the first line, the rest was just gibberish :/

This is thermodynamics, you don't 'set' a temperature for the chip. You set airflow characteristics, ambient temps, all the material and conduction properties, convection properties blah blah, and most importantly: the heat output of the chip.

The temp it settles at is the result of your simulation and is determined by the thermodynamic relationship of the system.

UNLESS, this is a faked simulation which really isn't a simulation - but a fixed temp heat dissipation exercise. Set chip temp to 125C fixed, 2D analysis, ambient temp in -> what happens to the airflow? Means absolutely nothing, provides absolutely nothing, tells you absolutely nothing but would produce a pretty graph like we see here.

And that is an auto scaled legend (min and max, spread linearly), if its showing 223 as the max then somewhere on that simulation is a spot temp of 223. He can say otherwise but....


supertldr: Simulation is either still wrong and they don't know it is/don't care/don't understand/know its wrong and just did it for the pretty picture. The results of the simulation are questionable.

[Meizirkki]

I too was looking at the simulation.. Looks more like 125 than 150

Armchair experts again.

how is my armchair expertise now? Did you care to gimp the image before shitting on my post? KnC officially stated it the simulation showing 125C

Have a nice life, asshole.

[dentldir]

Or if you read the response without confirmation bias:

If you run the chip at 125C, an abnormally high running temperature, you can dissipate the heat with room temperature air (25C).

Wrong way round. If you run the chip under normal conditions with a room temp of 25C, the chip loads at 125C.

tldr: They have zero thermal headroom. You can say 'worst case' all you like, but look what happened with BFL and others. Power consumption is always more than expected, so these aren't 'worse case', these are realistic simulations. I really can't imagine them being able to run at these temps consistently, stably.

My interpretation of their message stands.  I'm not speaking for the accuracy of the simulation or for the simulation frequency which would drive the temperature.  I'm just making an unambiguous interpretation of what was stated.

[Loredo]

...a fixed temp heat dissipation exercise. Set chip temp to 125C fixed, 2D analysis, ambient temp in -> what happens to the airflow? Means absolutely nothing, provides absolutely nothing, tells you absolutely nothing but would produce a pretty graph like we see here.

True, you do get a pretty picture.  That, and it precludes by putting to rest a lot of the trial and error bullshit as has been -and still is- plaguing the DIY enablement efforts for both Avalon and BFL (come to think of it, bitfury as well, IIRC) regarding cooling.

[ujka]

Looking at 'pretty picture' - that heatsink isn't dissipating any heat.

[dogie]

Looking at 'pretty picture' - that heatsink isn't dissipating any heat.

Yes it is. Simulations cheat a bit, but the heatsink is heating up the air as it passes through. So the heatsink isn't 'hot' on that scale, but it is giving off heat.

[titomane]

Someone can have an idea about this:

 In the news 22. They said chip  would 2046 balls
https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-22
and now 2797 is a significant change. A to be.This indicates that the June 26 had not been made ​​the order.

thanks

[socardea]

Hi guys

If I get now the Mercury  ( 1995 $ ) and you not send me  the product  OR the product it´s not good , how I get the money back ?

Tnx 

[qiuness]

 Total is $ 2,593.80 not 1995

[Mota]

Hi guys

If I get now the Mercury  ( 1995 $ ) and you not send me  the product  OR the product it´s not good , how I get the money back ?

Tnx 

How about sending them an email instead of wasting everyones time with a useless post?

[socardea]

Total is $ 2,593.80 not 1995

Total it´s https://www.kncminer.com/categories/miners  + UPS Zone 4  $ 93  = 2088 $ 

[Vycid]

Or if you read the response without confirmation bias:

If you run the chip at 125C, an abnormally high running temperature, you can dissipate the heat with room temperature air (25C).

This is meaningless, since if the heat dissipation below 125 was insufficient it would simply heat up to 125 and cool adequately.

[jimmy3dita]

It seems pretty clear to me (and my armchair) that the "worst case scenario" means 120 watt pushed in the simulator when the chip should do 90-100. The temperature is a result and not a parameter.

Why 120watt? Well (in my opinion) if they want to use a modified CPU cooler, they shouldn't go too far from common CPU TDPs

[Anenome5]

No!  Read the response.  It's a simulation, and they set the chip's temperature artificially high at 125.  

That makes sense. So the chip survives with this cooling solution at worst case scenario under normal temp conditions.

[Anenome5]

This is thermodynamics, you don't 'set' a temperature for the chip. You set airflow characteristics, ambient temps, all the material and conduction properties, convection properties blah blah, and most importantly: the heat output of the chip.

The temp it settles at is the result of your simulation and is determined by the thermodynamic relationship of the system.

Really depends what you're testing. If you're testing a cooling solution that's one thing--which appears to be what's happening with this picture. They're not saying the chip itself every gets to 125C, but they're saying if it did here's the thermal result based on cooling. At least, that's the most generous way to read the situation. But it's also plausible and even probable if we assume that KNC isn't full of idiots.

UNLESS, this is a faked simulation which really isn't a simulation - but a fixed temp heat dissipation exercise. Set chip temp to 125C fixed, 2D analysis, ambient temp in -> what happens to the airflow? Means absolutely nothing, provides absolutely nothing, tells you absolutely nothing but would produce a pretty graph like we see here.

That's what I think we're seeing, yes. Who knows the origin of this picture too, it may be a simulation not even provided by KNC but by the documentation around the cooling solution itself.