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Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3039472 times)
bkpduke
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July 28, 2013, 01:03:16 PM
 #4401

Unfortunately, as far as I know we are still waiting to find out the tape-out date.   Huh
That's their business, I would be surprised if the bothered to tell you.



I would think paying customers would get some updates.. So far all I heard about was a hosting plan and you can spend more money to upgrade ..


Since when do Intel or nVidia tell their customers tape out dates?

ALL the time they give tape-out dates.  Shareholders like this info to keep from bailing on the stock.
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Bitcoinorama
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July 28, 2013, 01:18:43 PM
 #4402

Unfortunately, as far as I know we are still waiting to find out the tape-out date.   Huh
That's their business, I would be surprised if the bothered to tell you.



I would think paying customers would get some updates.. So far all I heard about was a hosting plan and you can spend more money to upgrade ..


Since when do Intel or nVidia tell their customers tape out dates?

ALL the time they give tape-out dates.  Shareholders like this info to keep from bailing on the stock.

Perhaps, but I think you keep forgetting that this is a 'formula one' race to the finish line, of which such information, and the precise time of it's arrival, thus being a milestine pinpointing how far the project is progressing, is highly competitor sensitive, albeit interesting for those with vested interests...

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kingcoin
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July 28, 2013, 01:35:59 PM
 #4403

They're doing a standard cell ASIC, not a mere FPGA copy over.

Which ASIC vendor and which process?
Not sure either's been announced. But they have said it's a standard cell ASIC and not a mere FPGA copy-over.

The only info I've found is that ORSoC has some deal with eASIC which is more FPGA like than ASIC despite the name.

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July 28, 2013, 01:40:13 PM
 #4404

They're doing a standard cell ASIC, not a mere FPGA copy over.

Which ASIC vendor and which process?
Not sure either's been announced. But they have said it's a standard cell ASIC and not a mere FPGA copy-over.

The only info I've found is that ORSoC has some deal with eASIC which is more FPGA like than ASIC despite the name.

eASIC? they're supposedly working on 28nm chips for ActiveMining as well. Interesting.

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July 28, 2013, 02:07:23 PM
 #4405

They say standard cell allover their product info sites and publications.
augustocroppo
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July 28, 2013, 02:24:32 PM
 #4406

Perhaps, but I think you keep forgetting that this is a 'formula one' race to the finish line, of which such information, and the precise time of it's arrival, thus being a milestine pinpointing how far the project is progressing, is highly competitor sensitive, albeit interesting for those with vested interests...

This sounds like Josh Zerlan months ago, explaining why he could not explain why BFL was missing the delivery dates...
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July 28, 2013, 02:40:58 PM
 #4407

Perhaps, but I think you keep forgetting that this is a 'formula one' race to the finish line, of which such information, and the precise time of it's arrival, thus being a milestine pinpointing how far the project is progressing, is highly competitor sensitive, albeit interesting for those with vested interests...

This sounds like Josh Zerlan months ago, explaining why he could not explain why BFL was missing the delivery dates...

Err no...think about it!


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kingcoin
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July 28, 2013, 03:17:23 PM
 #4408

They say standard cell allover their product info sites and publications.

But still no info about vendor or process?
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Firing it up


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July 28, 2013, 03:30:41 PM
 #4409

Unfortunately, as far as I know we are still waiting to find out the tape-out date.   Huh
That's their business, I would be surprised if the bothered to tell you.



That's easy for you to say:


I would love to order a KNCminer, but I am waiting until I see working proof from end users who have received their units, just like I did with BFL.  Until actual real world test results come in, you can't plan your rig effectively.


Agree, even the boss say the worst time is October
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July 28, 2013, 03:32:31 PM
 #4410

They say standard cell allover their product info sites and publications.

But still no info about vendor or process?

If it's a private contract, they can only go so far detailing specifics before breaking NDAs, they said this much at the open day. It's standard business practice.

Their largest ASIC had 178 cores from the top of my head, and they wouldn't say what it was for because of the NDA in place. It's touched on within the open day report...

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
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SebastianJu
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July 28, 2013, 04:52:10 PM
 #4411

My 2 cents...
None of the calculators, or mining forcasters seem to take in the fact/factor that in order for the difficulty changes to maintain a 20% increase every diffchange, that it will take 20% more hashing power delivered to customers to maintain that increase level. In other words, if the diff increases, so does the need amount of delivered hash power to make the same result. With that in mind, there will be a leveling, or slowly getting smaller & smaller % increase as the cloud grows, again, because it will take more & more units delivered to effect the same result. But there will be a few larger ones soon, surely with all the massive deliveries pending, but all I'm saying is that there eventually will be a smaller and smaller rise in the difflevel , and sometimes go down, as happened in the past. Your ability to mine for profit will depend on your willingness to re-invest in bigger, better, faster, and MORE EFFICIENT machines as they become available. Choose wisely Grasshopper
 Wink


Youre right... paying the half price for the same hashrate but getting it some time later will turn out a worse buy. My new best liked calculator is this one: http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/
At the moment time is an even bigger factor one thinks. 66% rising difficulty per month. That is huge.

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gateway
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July 28, 2013, 05:03:02 PM
 #4412

My 2 cents...
None of the calculators, or mining forcasters seem to take in the fact/factor that in order for the difficulty changes to maintain a 20% increase every diffchange, that it will take 20% more hashing power delivered to customers to maintain that increase level. In other words, if the diff increases, so does the need amount of delivered hash power to make the same result. With that in mind, there will be a leveling, or slowly getting smaller & smaller % increase as the cloud grows, again, because it will take more & more units delivered to effect the same result. But there will be a few larger ones soon, surely with all the massive deliveries pending, but all I'm saying is that there eventually will be a smaller and smaller rise in the difflevel , and sometimes go down, as happened in the past. Your ability to mine for profit will depend on your willingness to re-invest in bigger, better, faster, and MORE EFFICIENT machines as they become available. Choose wisely Grasshopper
 Wink


Youre right... paying the half price for the same hashrate but getting it some time later will turn out a worse buy. My new best liked calculator is this one: http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/
At the moment time is an even bigger factor one thinks. 66% rising difficulty per month. That is huge.

Ya nice tool to calculate with btw select the BFF mini rig which costs 22k and see how much your roi ..
gateway
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July 28, 2013, 05:53:02 PM
 #4413

hmm going to http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/ this morning and selecting knc Jupiter and sept with all the defaults.. well you can see doesn't look so good right now to the guestimate of diff increase.  I hope we dont see 62% increases.. time will tell since diff is currently changing around every 11 days or so thats about 3 more diff changes before sept 1 give or take.

So yes my questions yesterday about tape-out or more transparency of progress is quite important, I know their stance seems to be limited updates here and their and well nothing in the last few emails going out has made me feel any better about my purchase and with less than 5-6 weeks till sept well you might start to understand my concern, esp if you switch the month to oct using the calculator above.

Of course I do understand we have few variables we do not have much control over, increase in hash to the network, diff % change every 11 or so days and price of btc.

So yes someone from KNC start to shed some info, you already announced that you are shipping in sept, so their is no secret to hide unless time delays which then would cause mass issues and quite a bit of refund requests.

sorry I dont mean to sound grim just look at some numbers as an investor like I do with my stocks and sharing my opinion (which I hope isn't right)
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July 28, 2013, 06:01:48 PM
 #4414

hmm going to http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/ this morning and selecting knc Jupiter and sept with all the defaults.. well you can see doesn't look so good right now to the guestimate of diff increase.  I hope we dont see 62% increases.. time will tell since diff is currently changing around every 11 days or so thats about 3 more diff changes before sept 1 give or take.

The 62% is the rise the difficulty took in the last 30 days, the stats for this is in the upper left. And i fear it might get even worse. I mean avalon batch 3 miners will ship in the next weeks for sure, the hundred thousand of avalon chips will be shipped in the next weeks, those chips can be overclocked from 282mhz to 450 mhz with burnin's design, which means an even greater rise of difficulty. And then there are all the new chips that should come out. Im not even remembering all the new companies claiming to bring out chips in the next months. It might become hard.

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July 28, 2013, 06:13:07 PM
 #4415

hmm going to http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/ this morning and selecting knc Jupiter and sept with all the defaults.. well you can see doesn't look so good right now to the guestimate of diff increase.  I hope we dont see 62% increases.. time will tell since diff is currently changing around every 11 days or so thats about 3 more diff changes before sept 1 give or take.

The 62% is the rise the difficulty took in the last 30 days, the stats for this is in the upper left. And i fear it might get even worse. I mean avalon batch 3 miners will ship in the next weeks for sure, the hundred thousand of avalon chips will be shipped in the next weeks, those chips can be overclocked from 282mhz to 450 mhz with burnin's design, which means an even greater rise of difficulty. And then there are all the new chips that should come out. Im not even remembering all the new companies claiming to bring out chips in the next months. It might become hard.

Pretty soon its where you will need 1Th/s to make revenue and well that all depends on the price of the hardware which will have to really really start to come down for ROI or people will not buy these products.  I truly hope people are not buying bfl mini's at 22k still..
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July 28, 2013, 06:33:03 PM
 #4416

They say standard cell allover their product info sites and publications.

But still no info about vendor or process?

If it's a private contract, they can only go so far detailing specifics before breaking NDAs, they said this much at the open day. It's standard business practice.

Their largest ASIC had 178 cores from the top of my head, and they wouldn't say what it was for because of the NDA in place. It's touched on within the open day report...

Most established vendors (like TSMC, UMC, IBM, etc) does not require an NDA to disclose a client partnership, especially not on a mature technology like 28nm...
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July 28, 2013, 07:13:36 PM
 #4417

hmm going to http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/ this morning and selecting knc Jupiter and sept with all the defaults.. well you can see doesn't look so good right now to the guestimate of diff increase.  I hope we dont see 62% increases.. time will tell since diff is currently changing around every 11 days or so thats about 3 more diff changes before sept 1 give or take.

The 62% is the rise the difficulty took in the last 30 days, the stats for this is in the upper left. And i fear it might get even worse. I mean avalon batch 3 miners will ship in the next weeks for sure, the hundred thousand of avalon chips will be shipped in the next weeks, those chips can be overclocked from 282mhz to 450 mhz with burnin's design, which means an even greater rise of difficulty. And then there are all the new chips that should come out. Im not even remembering all the new companies claiming to bring out chips in the next months. It might become hard.


If you receive your miner from burnin in first Batch. You will money. But if you receive in September. Wil not.

1000 chips * 0.086 = 86 BTC  8600$
50 Burnin PCB*100  5000€=  6600$

282Ghs Ghs OC to 450mhz  450Ghs

2000w                        3200w


Total miner cost  15200$
Psu cost               500$
Ship from burnin   500$
                        16200$

http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/

If you receive in August win 14100$ from March, you lose money every month
If you receive in September win 1520$ from March, you lose money every month

Cost kwh default 0.15


If difficulty  rise 65.65% & receive your burnin miner on September, only win 1$

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July 28, 2013, 07:27:59 PM
 #4418

Yes, septembre might already be hard, august would work out in my calculation. I dont like the numbers too. Ill maybe host it with dalkore so power cost wouldnt be such a big factor, i hope he manages to create merged mining successfully, which will give a plus too, transaction fees are a rising factor for mining too. And i believe that all the new asic providers will have starting problems like every other company before. So the time to ROI might be met. Everything after that could be a plus. But its true... so much new competition came in in the meanwhile... its not really funny. I really wonder how all this will behave. I mean the miner order and order new miners because they now look good but only some time in the future they will have their miners. Which might turn out as a mess.

I hope meeting roi and that the bitcoin price is rising later. I hope yifu gets his things straight. But this here is kncminer thread... Smiley

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Bitcoinorama
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July 28, 2013, 07:40:48 PM
 #4419


They say standard cell allover their product info sites and publications.

But still no info about vendor or process?

If it's a private contract, they can only go so far detailing specifics before breaking NDAs, they said this much at the open day. It's standard business practice.

Their largest ASIC had 178 cores from the top of my head, and they wouldn't say what it was for because of the NDA in place. It's touched on within the open day report...

Most established vendors (like TSMC, UMC, IBM, etc) does not require an NDA to disclose a client partnership, especially not on a mature technology like 28nm...

Mate I mean the NDA between ORSoC and the companies that contracted them for their ASIC design service, that has nothing to do with an NDA between ORSoC and a respective foundry...

Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful Smiley BTC Address --->
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kingcoin
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July 28, 2013, 07:59:17 PM
 #4420


They say standard cell allover their product info sites and publications.

But still no info about vendor or process?

If it's a private contract, they can only go so far detailing specifics before breaking NDAs, they said this much at the open day. It's standard business practice.

Their largest ASIC had 178 cores from the top of my head, and they wouldn't say what it was for because of the NDA in place. It's touched on within the open day report...

Most established vendors (like TSMC, UMC, IBM, etc) does not require an NDA to disclose a client partnership, especially not on a mature technology like 28nm...

Mate I mean the NDA between ORSoC and the companies that contracted them for their ASIC design service, that has nothing to do with an NDA between ORSoC and a respective foundry...

So ORSoC does a RTL handover to company X which does the FPGA to ASIC conversion?
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