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Bitcoinorama
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August 05, 2013, 03:32:51 PM |
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For example even with 1 billion difficulty it still makes sense to mine with KNC Miner and it is very simple to calculate returns - 1 billion difficulty equals 7158.278TH/s, so if you have 400GH/s miner = 400/7158000=0.0000558815 shares of the 3600 daily coins=0.2011734 coins per day=6.13BTC per month.
It does. And it also, IMO, indicates the coming "New Normal" in BTC mining. No Aston Martin bought in six weeks. A nice little sideline income, a great hobby, and participation in a community. Hardware someone can buy on line, have it shipped FedEx, comes with a manual and power supply, you plug it in, and start mining. The prices are going to need to reflect the New Normal, of course. Now they don't. But they will. Somehow, none of that sounds like a tragedy to me. It isn't and of course it was always going to be the case that more people would by a slice of the pie until they are no longer content with the portion. If Avalon or BFL delivered as promised on time such earlier predicted returns would have been feasible, but now of course they are to be diluted especially after the recent exposure Bitcoin has had. Anyone thinking this would be a full time replaceable income that wouldn't attract significant attention is barmy... Yep. Individuals involved because of interest in the concept. And yes, there will be businesses with the huge farms, like ASICminer (who I think of, and refer to, as Bitcoin Edison. You're a Brit, so may not know that, e.g., New York's monopolistic electricity company is Consolidated Edison; Chicago's is Commonwealth Edison, etc.) Of course, but ASICminer raised huge amounts of cash knowing they had a window of opportunity for truly exponential growth if they managed to be the first to market, this of course was even before the Cypriot crisis blew Bitcoin into the mainstream media. I was referring to the mom and pop miners thinking they could retire early, or the kids hoping to drop out of school and live the easy life... |
Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful  BTC Address ---> 1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp |
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Once a transaction has 6 confirmations, it is extremely unlikely that an attacker without at least 50% of the network's computation power would be able to reverse it.
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Bitcoinorama
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August 05, 2013, 03:34:32 PM |
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For those who are interested in the KNC mining pool. The current answer is NMC merge mining will not be available at launch. This may change in the future but at launch, those of you who are hosting with KNC and plan to use the KNC pool (or using the KNC pool via Byteminr) will not be earning Namecoins. This is essentially leaving 3-4% return on the table.
That's a shame, how about emailing back and requesting a poll on the front page? They appear to like that facility and def listen to the voices of their customers. Majority vote rules... |
Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful BTC Address ---> 1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp |
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WastedLTC
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August 05, 2013, 03:44:06 PM |
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For those who are interested in the KNC mining pool. The current answer is NMC merge mining will not be available at launch. This may change in the future but at launch, those of you who are hosting with KNC and plan to use the KNC pool (or using the KNC pool via Byteminr) will not be earning Namecoins. This is essentially leaving 3-4% return on the table.
That's a shame, how about emailing back and requesting a poll on the front page? They appear to like that facility and def listen to the voices of their customers. Majority vote rules... It looks like this is something that they just don't have the skill set or time to complete prior to launch. There are plenty of pools to choose from, hope this helps 'prepare' everyone. Search out and sign up for the pools you wish to use and go from there. I'll probably have each miner on a different pool and I'll compare the returns and up time. |
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Nemo1024
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 1680
Merit: 1014
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August 05, 2013, 03:46:23 PM |
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Why not just point your miners at BitMinter, which has merged mining?
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“Dark times lie ahead of us and there will be a time when we must choose between what is easy and what is right.”
“We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.”
“It is important to fight and fight again, and keep fighting, for only then can evil be kept at bay, though never quite eradicated.”
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Ytterbium
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August 05, 2013, 03:52:08 PM |
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Since the WSJ, and the other 'press releases' the story has gained some momentum and appeared on other sites, meaning any hoaxster has gone to and is continuing to go to considerable effort to spam.
The WSJ running is what perplexes me, but I can only assume Sunday night limiting means to make phone calls and confirm, but that still would at least mean some googling like have just done. Still it wouldn't be the first time a journalist performs little research and takes Internet gossip as fact. What's even weirder is 'financial news' has clearly been slipped a web domain, so they must have had first hand contact with the hoaxster. First of all, in order to get a story in a traditional newspaper on Monday morning, it needs to be submitted on Sunday night. So it's not at all unusual to see a story go up online the night before it shows up in the paper. They may have been working on it over the weekend, or perhaps longer. It's not at all unusual to see a newspaper article go online in the middle of the night, that's when they're finalized. Fake site, and definitely a fake twitter, someone had a lot of time on their hands, the swipes at KnC meant it was specifically targeted at spreading FUD between them and Avalon. Yifu is probably enjoying the confusion it's causing right now, as last time he was 'woken up in the middle of the night' with FUD being spread he jumped on this forum immediately to put the record straight. Any truth in this would be the worst news possible for centralising Bitcoin. I appreciate the ASIC route has been fraught with scams and greed, but we're finally just on the cusp of having competing choice of real products available and hopefully fair pricing/returns with various options of DIY and/or purpose made units. One entity controlling all the supply would kill mining...
I don't really get how you can say this is a "fake twitter" simply because of some "unprofessional" sounding tweets. People post unprofessional things on their twitter feeds all the time. Just because someone is a rich wallstreet banker doesn't mean they are going act and sound professional all the time. Quite the opposite, in fact. Have you ever read Micheal Lewis' Liars Poker? Wallstreet culture is not very P.C. at all. Anyway, if the story isn't true, that means someone straight up conned the WSJ, feeding the reporters a bunch of fake information. There is no way this is a simply a misunderstanding based on a couple years old article. |
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Bitcoinorama
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August 05, 2013, 03:56:47 PM |
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Since the WSJ, and the other 'press releases' the story has gained some momentum and appeared on other sites, meaning any hoaxster has gone to and is continuing to go to considerable effort to spam.
The WSJ running is what perplexes me, but I can only assume Sunday night limiting means to make phone calls and confirm, but that still would at least mean some googling like have just done. Still it wouldn't be the first time a journalist performs little research and takes Internet gossip as fact. What's even weirder is 'financial news' has clearly been slipped a web domain, so they must have had first hand contact with the hoaxster. First of all, in order to get a story in a traditional newspaper on Monday morning, it needs to be submitted on Sunday night. So it's not at all unusual to see a story go up online the night before it shows up in the paper. They may have been working on it over the weekend, or perhaps longer. It's not at all unusual to see a newspaper article go online in the middle of the night, that's when they're finalized. Fake site, and definitely a fake twitter, someone had a lot of time on their hands, the swipes at KnC meant it was specifically targeted at spreading FUD between them and Avalon. Yifu is probably enjoying the confusion it's causing right now, as last time he was 'woken up in the middle of the night' with FUD being spread he jumped on this forum immediately to put the record straight. Any truth in this would be the worst news possible for centralising Bitcoin. I appreciate the ASIC route has been fraught with scams and greed, but we're finally just on the cusp of having competing choice of real products available and hopefully fair pricing/returns with various options of DIY and/or purpose made units. One entity controlling all the supply would kill mining...
I don't really get how you can say this is a "fake twitter" simply because of some "unprofessional" sounding tweets. People post unprofessional things on their twitter feeds all the time. Just because someone is a rich wallstreet banker doesn't mean they are going act and sound professional all the time. Quite the opposite, in fact. Have you ever read Micheal Lewis' Liars Poker? Wallstreet culture is not very P.C. at all. Anyway, if the story isn't true, that means someone straight up conned the WSJ, feeding the reporters a bunch of fake information. There is no way this is a simply a misunderstanding based on a couple years old article. Who said it's in print?! AFAIK, it only appeared online on the WSJ website, perhaps someone else can confirm if they actually printed that crap. THAT would be laughable, they're supposed to have editors in place for that!! Submission is usually capped for print runs hours before going to print, then distro adds hours on that. 1st eds will have been print Sunday eve, and in the hands of resellers from 4am. Latter runs continue throughout the first half of the day in case of stopping the press for breaking news. This wouldn't be worth stopping the press, or even a revision unless something else more newsworthy took place... Also no guy with links to high net worth individuals worth his salt is EVER going to behave like that on twitter, he would be dropped and cut out of the equation, pronto. Most don't have twitter accounts as they don't want their 140 character limit taken out of context and think ahead of tweeting. Just look at who they follow, and who follows them. That is not the account of someone that moves in those circles! |
Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful BTC Address ---> 1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp |
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Loredo
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August 05, 2013, 04:02:02 PM |
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I was referring to the mom and pop miners thinking they could retire early, or the kids hoping to drop out of school and live the easy life...
Sure, that's exactly what I was thinking of, as well. The dreams of wealth beyond avarice -if only BFL would deliver, or Avalon would deliver- were still alive even a couple month ago, right? Equipment that would pay for itself in a few weeks, and pay the mortgage every month thereafter, that sort of thing. My only point about Bitcoin Edison is that, for entities with low marginal cost hash power, and deep pockets, and ways to control or manage the fungibility risk of bitcoins, this is still a fairly high volume, high profit margin business. |
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Ytterbium
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August 05, 2013, 04:07:05 PM |
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Who said it's in print?! AFAIK, it only appeared online on the WSJ website, perhaps someone else can confirm if they actually printed that crap. THAT would be laughable, they're supposed to have editors in place for that!!
If it's on the site as a normal article it should be in the paper - Unless it's in a "blog section" any newspaper will have the same editorial standards for their print articles as they do for their web articles. Only difference is they'll perhaps make updates to the online article if key events happen, which obviously won't end up getting printed. Submission is usually capped for print runs hours before going to print, then distro adds hours on that. 1st eds will have been print Sunday eve, and in the hands of resellers from 4am. Latter runs continue throughout the first half of the day in case of stopping the press for breaking news. This wouldn't be worth stopping the press, or even a revision unless something else more newsworthy took place...
Right. And the point is, if it's going to be in the paper, it's going to be finished the night before, and probably posted online. |
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maxpower
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August 05, 2013, 04:09:52 PM |
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Why not just point your miners at BitMinter, which has merged mining?
Yup, that is definitely an option. Any other suggestions for which pool to use? Others with merge mining. Slush's pool @ http://mining.bitcoin.cz/ BTC Guild @ https://www.btcguild.com/BitParking @ http://mmpool.bitparking.com/pool merge mines Namecoin, Devcoin and Ixcoin (with rumors of I0coin coming soon). Those extra coins aren't a huge amount of extra return in comparison to Namecoin, but they're not nothing... |
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canth
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1442
Merit: 1001
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August 05, 2013, 04:15:45 PM |
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Of course, but ASICminer raised huge amounts of cash knowing they had a window of opportunity for truly exponential growth if they managed to be the first to market, this of course was even before the Cypriot crisis blew Bitcoin into the mainstream media.
I was referring to the mom and pop miners thinking they could retire early, or the kids hoping to drop out of school and live the easy life...
I would point out that AM didn't raise a ton of cash - they issued about 166,000 shares at .1 BTC each or about 16,600 in BTC. Presuming they converted this to fiat and paid for the first round of mining equipment with this, it would have worked out to around $170,000 as BTC was closer to $10 at the time of their IPO. AM has made a ton of BTC from mining and sales, but they certainly didn't start off that way. BTC Garden on the other hand just raised 32K BTC in their IPO - currently worth ~ $3.2M. Going forward, for a newcomer to get into the game, the initial costs are only going to go up. Come sometime next year, maybe it'll cost $10M in startup costs to get a relevant hashrate or hardware sale going. |
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ffernandex
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August 05, 2013, 04:45:24 PM |
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Avalon Shmavalon. Back onto KNCminer's order numbers... they have " Day 1" and " Day 2" as some kind of shipping batch identification. I figured they could ship a few hundred 4RU machines a day, if that... So this guy is just now auctioning a "Day 1" order with order number #1824: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=268149.0So which of the following applies?? - Day 1 doesn't actually mean the first day of shipping.
- There are a lot of unpaid orders up to order number 1824.
- Somehow KNCminer will be shipping almost 2000 x 4RU units in a single day....
Hi, the guy making the auction is me. I had an early pre-order and I paid almost at the end of the 7 day period they offered to early pre-orders to complete payment and keep their place in line. That is why my actual order number is not so low, but my early pre-oder was in the 6XX. Best regards, |
If you like my posts, feel free to donate!
BTC: 1L1S4wG5TNJZSX9VG3vkk2er76YHihz3Kg
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Gyrsur
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2856
Merit: 1518
Bitcoin Legal Tender Countries: 2 of 206
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August 05, 2013, 04:49:03 PM |
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For example even with 1 billion difficulty it still makes sense to mine with KNC Miner and it is very simple to calculate returns - 1 billion difficulty equals 7158.278TH/s, so if you have 400GH/s miner = 400/7158000=0.0000558815 shares of the 3600 daily coins=0.2011734 coins per day=6.13BTC per month.
It does. And it also, IMO, indicates the coming "New Normal" in BTC mining. No Aston Martin bought in six weeks. A nice little sideline income, a great hobby, and participation in a community. Hardware someone can buy on line, have it shipped FedEx, comes with a manual and power supply, you plug it in, and start mining. The prices are going to need to reflect the New Normal, of course. Now they don't. But they will. Somehow, none of that sounds like a tragedy to me. +1 |
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Bitcoinorama
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August 05, 2013, 04:49:23 PM |
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For those who are interested in the KNC mining pool. The current answer is NMC merge mining will not be available at launch. This may change in the future but at launch, those of you who are hosting with KNC and plan to use the KNC pool (or using the KNC pool via Byteminr) will not be earning Namecoins. This is essentially leaving 3-4% return on the table.
Yo, FWIW I took the initative and emailed asking them to at least consider creating a poll asking for feedback for merged mining. Sam said he would be cool with that, and will add it tonight, so if you want merged mining you need to convince the masses here it's worthwhile and get them to vote when they add the poll to their homepage.  -- We have been looking for a new poll I will do it tonight
Sam
www.kncminer.com |
Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful BTC Address ---> 1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp |
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Ytterbium
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August 05, 2013, 05:00:39 PM |
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I think we are seeing the beginnings of these wallstreet assholes making a play at controlling the money supply.. Way to go Yifu, fucking POS
That was bound to happen if the price was going to continue to go up. |
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Phoenix1969
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
LIR DEV
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August 05, 2013, 05:01:06 PM |
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Avalon Shmavalon. Back onto KNCminer's order numbers... they have " Day 1" and " Day 2" as some kind of shipping batch identification. I figured they could ship a few hundred 4RU machines a day, if that... So this guy is just now auctioning a "Day 1" order with order number #1824: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=268149.0So which of the following applies?? - Day 1 doesn't actually mean the first day of shipping.
- There are a lot of unpaid orders up to order number 1824.
- Somehow KNCminer will be shipping almost 2000 x 4RU units in a single day....
There are a lot of unpaid orders generally. When you submit an order you are allocated an order number and even if you don't pay it still stays in their system. A friend of mine just placed one - Order ID: 52xx More important is how many of these 5200 orders are paid for and real - this information would be very valuable in establishing the expected (very rough) estimate of the future hash rate, thus easier to calculate possibility of positive ROI. Because right now I don't really care how much net profit I can make as long as it is positive. For example even with 1 billion difficulty it still makes sense to mine with KNC Miner and it is very simple to calculate returns - 1 billion difficulty equals 7158.278TH/s, so if you have 400GH/s miner = 400/7158000=0.0000558815 shares of the 3600 daily coins=0.2011734 coins per day=6.13BTC per month. Fishy at best, I have order #5x, and its a "Day two of production" order. Sam has also stated he does not want sales of pre-orders, and will do what he can to stop it.
Actually I think of it differently
What annoys me more than anything is people on eBay/or here selling pre orders for boxes. When the person buying has no chance of actually knowing if the box will ever arrive at his/her door because the original company doesn't allow a change of shipping address,
There is enough scamming in this industry already. I do not want to see our boxes or queue placements being used at all to scam anyone out of money and if i can spend a few minutes to fight that I will.
If this offends anyone then so be it. I would rather that than have you lose your coins to someone who claims to have a queue placement, or a full pre order who in actual fact does not.
After payments are made and the queue does indeed become longer. We know that queue trading is gong to happen and as we cant stop it the best we can do is try to make sure no one gets scammed.
Sam
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CYPER
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August 05, 2013, 05:01:20 PM |
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Hi, the guy making the auction is me. I had an early pre-order and I paid almost at the end of the 7 day period they offered to early pre-orders to complete payment and keep their place in line. That is why my actual order number is not so low, but my early pre-oder was in the 6XX.
Best regards,
Do you mean that your order number chages when you make the payment? I think it stays the same regardless of what you do? |
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Gyrsur
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2856
Merit: 1518
Bitcoin Legal Tender Countries: 2 of 206
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August 05, 2013, 05:03:15 PM |
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For those who are interested in the KNC mining pool. The current answer is NMC merge mining will not be available at launch. This may change in the future but at launch, those of you who are hosting with KNC and plan to use the KNC pool (or using the KNC pool via Byteminr) will not be earning Namecoins. This is essentially leaving 3-4% return on the table.
Yo, FWIW I took the initative and emailed asking them to at least consider creating a poll asking for feedback for merged mining. Sam said he would be cool with that, and will add it tonight, so if you want merged mining you need to convince the masses here it's worthwhile and get them to vote when they add the poll to their homepage. -- We have been looking for a new poll I will do it tonight
Sam
www.kncminer.comthey should open a forum on their website: http://forum.kncminer.com/EDIT: HAHA they have it already!  They don't want to appear like BFL because it is not http://forums.kncminer.com/ |
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ASIC-K
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 280
Merit: 250
Hell?
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August 05, 2013, 05:04:04 PM |
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Hi, the guy making the auction is me. I had an early pre-order and I paid almost at the end of the 7 day period they offered to early pre-orders to complete payment and keep their place in line. That is why my actual order number is not so low, but my early pre-oder was in the 6XX.
Best regards,
Do you mean that your order number chages when you mame the payment? I think it stays the same regardless of what you do? your place in line is held for 7 days until you pay, if you pay after 7 days, its based on payment date then. |
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Phoenix1969
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
LIR DEV
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August 05, 2013, 05:11:59 PM |
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Hi, the guy making the auction is me. I had an early pre-order and I paid almost at the end of the 7 day period they offered to early pre-orders to complete payment and keep their place in line. That is why my actual order number is not so low, but my early pre-oder was in the 6XX. Best regards, [/quote] Actually I think of it differently
What annoys me more than anything is people on eBay/or here selling pre orders for boxes. When the person buying has no chance of actually knowing if the box will ever arrive at his/her door because the original company doesn't allow a change of shipping address,
There is enough scamming in this industry already. I do not want to see our boxes or queue placements being used at all to scam anyone out of money and if i can spend a few minutes to fight that I will.
If this offends anyone then so be it. I would rather that than have you lose your coins to someone who claims to have a queue placement, or a full pre order who in actual fact does not.
After payments are made and the queue does indeed become longer. We know that queue trading is gong to happen and as we cant stop it the best we can do is try to make sure no one gets scammed.
Sam
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