Bitcoin Forum
March 28, 2024, 12:01:59 PM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 26.0 [Torrent]
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register More  
Warning: One or more bitcointalk.org users have reported that they strongly believe that the creator of this topic is a scammer. (Login to see the detailed trust ratings.) While the bitcointalk.org administration does not verify such claims, you should proceed with extreme caution.
Pages: « 1 ... 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 [590] 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 ... 2137 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com  (Read 3049438 times)
Xialla
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1036
Merit: 1000


/dev/null


View Profile
September 30, 2013, 09:57:35 AM
Last edit: September 30, 2013, 10:08:53 AM by Xialla
 #11781

I can understand why KNC staff is happy about being able to deliver (unlimited amount) of stuff that brought them a nice amount of money. Failing to understand why people here are happy for being confirmed to receive a product that will no longer give a positive ROI, while being unable to cancel their orders.

sad, but you are right..
Even in the event that an attacker gains more than 50% of the network's computational power, only transactions sent by the attacker could be reversed or double-spent. The network would not be destroyed.
Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction.
1711627319
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1711627319

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1711627319
Reply with quote  #2

1711627319
Report to moderator
1711627319
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1711627319

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1711627319
Reply with quote  #2

1711627319
Report to moderator
1711627319
Hero Member
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1711627319

View Profile Personal Message (Offline)

Ignore
1711627319
Reply with quote  #2

1711627319
Report to moderator
Its About Sharing
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1442
Merit: 1000


Antifragile


View Profile
September 30, 2013, 09:59:57 AM
 #11782

It is going to take JUST ONE company to release a profitable (clearly) miner to upend the whole market. And that, will be messy but much needed.

It cant happen. If Hashfast/cointerra/whomever slash their prices to the point where its "clearly profitable", all that will result in is more orders than they could possibly deliver. Or if they somehow could deliver, even at those prices it would turn out to be no longer profitable because difficulty would shoot through the roof.

Anything can happen. It takes one company that can meet demand or at least put out enough to make things fair. Obviously if you are selling money printing machines you are going to need to set limits.
To get the network more secure, it would be nice to allow more people access, instead of just selling to big pocketed people.

Anything is possible, just need to have an open mind...

You dont get it. Plenty of miners seem to think current prices are "fair", or they wouldnt be buying. You expect a manufacturer to both lower their prices, and limit supply, only so that those miners would be guaranteed a profit (at their expense)? Get real.

Maybe you don't get it? You seem fixed on your point. I am open to either and see possibilities.
If the chips are very cheap to produce (and they are) and the development is expensive (and it is), then it doesn't cost the manufacturers much more to put out more chips, which might be what KNC Miner is planning on doing.

I am real.  Wink

BTC = Black Swan.
BTC = Antifragile - "Some things benefit from shocks; they thrive and grow when exposed to volatility, randomness, disorder, and stressors and love adventure, risk, and uncertainty. Robust is not the opposite of fragile.
arlekyn13
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 288
Merit: 250


View Profile
September 30, 2013, 10:02:56 AM
 #11783

It is going to take JUST ONE company to release a profitable (clearly) miner to upend the whole market. And that, will be messy but much needed.

It cant happen. If Hashfast/cointerra/whomever slash their prices to the point where its "clearly profitable", all that will result in is more orders than they could possibly deliver. Or if they somehow could deliver, even at those prices it would turn out to be no longer profitable because difficulty would shoot through the roof.

Anything can happen. It takes one company that can meet demand or at least put out enough to make things fair. Obviously if you are selling money printing machines you are going to need to set limits.
To get the network more secure, it would be nice to allow more people access, instead of just selling to big pocketed people.

Anything is possible, just need to have an open mind...

You dont get it. Plenty of miners seem to think current prices are "fair", or they wouldnt be buying. You expect a manufacturer to both lower their prices, and limit supply, only so that those miners would be guaranteed a profit (at their expense)? Get real.

Maybe you don't get it? You seem fixed on your point. I am open to either and see possibilities.
If the chips are very cheap to produce (and they are) and the development is expensive (and it is), then it doesn't cost the manufacturers much more to put out more chips, which might be what KNC Miner is planning on doing.

I am real.  Wink

Here is what I posted on KNC forums regarding this matter:

"Following the pre-order pattern, an ASIC producer takes very low risks, while the customers take the entire risk of their machines to become obsolete before delivery. The most important step a producer should take, would be to limit the number of available machines (chips) for each batch, a limit imposed by the willing to preserve a decent mining difficulty, not a limit imposed by the number of willing to buy customers...
What if Cointerra for example (or whatever producer that seems to be able to be next big hit) would sell 500.000 machines hashing at 2TH each for January delivery? They would be pretty much useless for the buyers, while the producer profit would skyrocket!
It would be so much better if there was a limit of hashing speed that could possibly be added each month to the network and the ASIC producers to auction their share of that hasing power, pretty much like TV rights for football games.

On the other hand, if i were an ASIC producer, I'd sell even 1 billion machines as long as I get profit from each and every sale!"

1CmrswU7JYpi9WNC8EHWCV3aam1FJsW2Zu - to show appreciation for my work
Puppet
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1040


View Profile
September 30, 2013, 10:08:10 AM
 #11784

Maybe you don't get it? You seem fixed on your point.

yeah, because Ive been debating (and predicting)  this since before the first asic was even announced, I think Ive heard all angles.

Quote
If the chips are very cheap to produce (and they are) and the development is expensive (and it is), then it doesn't cost the manufacturers much more to put out more chips, which might be what KNC Miner is planning on doing.

Sure, they can (and will) lower prices per unit, but not to the point of obvious profitability without dramatically increasing demand. So either they must leave most of that demand unfulfilled or the increased supply will render the profitability moot again.

Its quite simple, there is too much demand for unprofitable mining gear. The only thing you can do about that, is not buy any.
sbfree
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 250



View Profile
September 30, 2013, 10:09:49 AM
 #11785

So Sweden's cold and I've switched off from here until I have something to post.

Basically spent the last couple of nights out and about catching up with some girls I know.

Was kidnapped this morning, now at their manufacturing facility, which is huuuge.

Am not allowed to show a lot of the photos I've taken as you have to wear anti-static coats and err clogs of all things. Basically all the jackets are branded, so until I can photoshop blur them out I can only post pics that are okayed prior.

I haven't caught up on the thread, I imaged you've all fallen to pieces. Biomech has just forewarned me you have pitchforks. Because, why? It's not like I have any control over what I'd going on, or your ability to chill out.

Anyway, look what's arrived;



Not much else to report yet. Wink

EDIT; oh and as for the 'active but not posting' b*llocks. I'm in another country, which I have paid myself to come to. I'm not paying for data roaming on my sodding mobile so you can have you hands held on my minute by minute activity. You're relentless, and for the most part freaking me out. What little internet I have had has either been checked on free wifi, or here, I'm now paired to one of their mobiles, which involves standing outside. Which involves security clearance. Seriously when you think about it, it's bleeding obvious.

HIP HIP HOORAY?Huh?
Its About Sharing
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1442
Merit: 1000


Antifragile


View Profile
September 30, 2013, 10:11:35 AM
 #11786

Maybe you don't get it? You seem fixed on your point.

yeah, because Ive been debating (and predicting)  this since before the first asic was even announced, I think Ive heard all angles.

Quote
If the chips are very cheap to produce (and they are) and the development is expensive (and it is), then it doesn't cost the manufacturers much more to put out more chips, which might be what KNC Miner is planning on doing.

Sure, they can (and will) lower prices per unit, but not to the point of obvious profitability without dramatically increasing demand. So either they must leave most of that demand unfulfilled or the increased supply will render the profitability moot again.

Its quite simple, there is too much demand for unprofitable mining gear. The only thing you can do about that, is not buy any.


Don't confuse demand for unprofitable mining gear with demand for mining gear.
There is some demand for not profitable gear as perhaps, buying too many BTC's might raise the price so much and so they choose to just buy machines. A thought anyway.

It is interesting to debate, but whether we win or lose the debates. We really don't know what is going to happen. Pretty exciting in a sense, even with money on the line...
I've been shocked before and don't doubt it will happen again.

Perhaps, two open minding individuals can agree to say... "We'll see"

BTC = Black Swan.
BTC = Antifragile - "Some things benefit from shocks; they thrive and grow when exposed to volatility, randomness, disorder, and stressors and love adventure, risk, and uncertainty. Robust is not the opposite of fragile.
sbfree
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 250



View Profile
September 30, 2013, 10:14:37 AM
 #11787

NEWS UPDATE

https://www.kncminer.com/news/news-38

Quote from: KNCMining
We have relocated most of our operation to the factory over the weekend. The first delivery of the chips have arrived and have been populated on the boards. We have begun testing and initial results are good, we will have more updates throughout the day. We know many of you are calling and we are sorry if we cannot answer your call. This is a very busy time for us but we are all hands on deck we can assure you of that.



NOW there is a happily married man who will be getting sum tonite....good job, sam, knc team and DID I SAY BITCOINORAMA FOR PRESIDENT??
ok,ok, alittle too soon for that but close....oh so close....now the question is to redhash or not to redhash as well
sbfree
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 250



View Profile
September 30, 2013, 10:16:24 AM
 #11788

There IS a God!!!  I'm surely not sleeping tonight now... Smiley

figured you wouldn't be sleeping....plane ticket still on standby??
Puppet
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1040


View Profile
September 30, 2013, 10:16:44 AM
 #11789

Don't confuse demand for unprofitable mining gear with demand for mining gear.
There is some demand for not profitable gear as perhaps, buying too many BTC's might raise the price so much and so they choose to just buy machines. A thought anyway.

It is interesting to debate, but whether we win or lose the debates. We really don't know what is going to happen. Pretty exciting in a sense, even with money on the line...
I've been shocked before and don't doubt it will happen again.

Perhaps, two open minding individuals can agree to say... "We'll see"

Sure, we will see Smiley. We will  (continue to) see what I and many others predicted a long, long time ago: overall bitcoin asics can only be (very) profitable for the vendors. Individual miners getting a profit from them will be a tiny lucky minority.
sbfree
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 250



View Profile
September 30, 2013, 10:20:43 AM
 #11790

Looks like the margins on the time margins got pretty much used up, I wonder how the margins on the gigahash margins and the margins on the power usage margins have been doing...

-MarkM-


Mark, at this point, unless that picture of Sam with Chip is fake, we could at least begin to give them "SOME" benefit of doubt?? Yes, time is not perfect, some bitbets will be lost.....but when compared to what has transpired at other ASIC MANUFACTURERS, KNC SHOULD DEF. HOLD THEIR CHINS UP....YES MY RIG IS NOT HERE WITH ME YET....BUT IT IS LOOKING A HELL OF LOT BETTER
Its About Sharing
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 1442
Merit: 1000


Antifragile


View Profile
September 30, 2013, 10:25:14 AM
 #11791

Don't confuse demand for unprofitable mining gear with demand for mining gear.
There is some demand for not profitable gear as perhaps, buying too many BTC's might raise the price so much and so they choose to just buy machines. A thought anyway.

It is interesting to debate, but whether we win or lose the debates. We really don't know what is going to happen. Pretty exciting in a sense, even with money on the line...
I've been shocked before and don't doubt it will happen again.

Perhaps, two open minding individuals can agree to say... "We'll see"

Sure, we will see Smiley. We will  (continue to) see what I and many others predicted a long, long time ago: overall bitcoin asics can only be (very) profitable for the vendors. Individual miners getting a profit from them will be a tiny lucky minority.

Maybe you are a really smart guy (and creative and open minded as well). But I think Einstein was wrong on occasion as well.  Cool

Bookmarked  Wink

BTC = Black Swan.
BTC = Antifragile - "Some things benefit from shocks; they thrive and grow when exposed to volatility, randomness, disorder, and stressors and love adventure, risk, and uncertainty. Robust is not the opposite of fragile.
Puppet
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 980
Merit: 1040


View Profile
September 30, 2013, 10:25:44 AM
 #11792

Mark, at this point, unless that picture of Sam with Chip is fake, we could at least begin to give them "SOME" benefit of doubt?? Yes, time is not perfect, some bitbets will be lost.....but when compared to what has transpired at other ASIC MANUFACTURERS, KNC SHOULD DEF. HOLD THEIR CHINS UP....YES MY RIG IS NOT HERE WITH ME YET....BUT IT IS LOOKING A HELL OF LOT BETTER

No one sane thought this was all fake, but at the same time, we've not seen much more from KnC than we did from BFL when they posted pictures like this:



Remember that one?

From there to a working shipping product may be a small step or a giant 6+ month leap, we just dont know yet.
sbfree
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 250



View Profile
September 30, 2013, 10:28:09 AM
 #11793

I can understand why KNC staff is happy about being able to deliver (unlimited amount) of stuff that brought them a nice amount of money. Failing to understand why people here are happy for being confirmed to receive a product that will no longer give a positive ROI, while being unable to cancel their orders.

NEGATIVE NEGATIVE NEGATIVE.....


lets just say that I don't ROI, MAYBE I GET 50% OF investment back, guess what, as a loyal customer of KNC, I KNOW THEY WILL BE MAKING A GEN2, so guess where that 50% will go....and seems like KNC DID PROMISE SOME OF US EARLY RISK TAKERS FUTURE CONSIDERATION ON NEXT GEN......GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME....
btceic
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 392
Merit: 250


♫ A wave came crashing like a fist to the jaw ♫


View Profile WWW
September 30, 2013, 10:29:08 AM
 #11794

I'm going to repeat this here before it get's lost.

Quote
EDIT; oh and as for the 'active but not posting' b*llocks. I'm in another country, which I have paid myself to come to. I'm not paying for data roaming on my sodding mobile so you can have you hands held on my minute by minute activity. You're relentless, and for the most part freaking me out. What little internet I have had has either been checked on free wifi, or here, I'm now paired to one of their mobiles, which involves standing outside. Which involves security clearance. Seriously when you think about it, it's bleeding obvious.

Some of us appreciate what you have and are doing!

♫ This situation, which side are you on? Are you getting out? Are you dropping bombs? Have you heard of diplomatic resolve? ♫ How To Run A Cheap Full Bitcoin Node For $19 A Year ♫ If I knew where it was, I would take you there. There’s much more than this. ♫ Track Your Bitcoins Value
sbfree
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 250



View Profile
September 30, 2013, 10:30:47 AM
 #11795

"We have begun testing and initial results are good"

For some reason I don't feel much enthusiasm in their statement. I mean, it should mean good news, but still, some lack of enthusiasm. Waiting for figures though...

DID YOU CANCEL YOUR ORDER AND ARE NOW HATING ON THE REST OF US WHEN YOU SHOULD BE HATING ON YOURSELF?Huh

KNC....ALIVE AND KICKING
Mota
Legendary
*
Offline Offline

Activity: 804
Merit: 1002


View Profile
September 30, 2013, 10:31:03 AM
 #11796

Maybe you don't get it? You seem fixed on your point.

yeah, because Ive been debating (and predicting)  this since before the first asic was even announced, I think Ive heard all angles.

Quote
If the chips are very cheap to produce (and they are) and the development is expensive (and it is), then it doesn't cost the manufacturers much more to put out more chips, which might be what KNC Miner is planning on doing.

Sure, they can (and will) lower prices per unit, but not to the point of obvious profitability without dramatically increasing demand. So either they must leave most of that demand unfulfilled or the increased supply will render the profitability moot again.

Its quite simple, there is too much demand for unprofitable mining gear. The only thing you can do about that, is not buy any.


I think that is only half of it. Future miners as well as those of today make their calculations based on the current Btc/usd ratio, maybe a bit less. My calculations and decision to buy a Jupiter were always based on the amount of bitcoins I could have bought with the same amount.
I expected to get around 86-90 btc out of a Jupiter, so I - as many other - thought the price was fair. I still think it is, but I don't think lowering the price to clear profitability will influence the decision of many people to buy more.
It was the same with GPU's back then. I decided not to buy High end GPU's because I thought they were overpriced and ROI was at 2 months or more. I bought btc instead and got a nice bonus out of it.
Despite what many think, btc miners are the minority of bitcoin holders/users now. Most people trade with them and as long as the mining unit is not a plug and play unit only the minority with linux knowledge and motivation will buy them, even if a high end unit "only" costs 2,5k instead of 7k. With the words of my partner: "What? I thought you plug it in and it generates Bitcoins! That is to difficult to understand, show it to me when it runs."
sbfree
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 250



View Profile
September 30, 2013, 10:34:47 AM
Last edit: September 30, 2013, 10:46:19 AM by sbfree
 #11797

I can understand why KNC staff is happy about being able to deliver (unlimited amount) of stuff that brought them a nice amount of money. Failing to understand why people here are happy for being confirmed to receive a product that will no longer give a positive ROI, while being unable to cancel their orders.

this.

they will be late for a week or two at best, and people here are celebrating.


So knowing that bitcoinorama was going to personally pickup his unit or units, they told him to come this weekend so he can spend a whole week or 2 in Sweden getting to know the swedish girls and beer while his unit is shipped BUILT??

UNLIKELY!!
sbfree
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 250



View Profile
September 30, 2013, 10:37:16 AM
 #11798

here is how we can still win the bitbet  - Take out your jupiter at the airport or even there on site at knc...have it hashing with a cpu monitor and a screenshot of your worker dashboard that shows your a different address/pool I think we only need 5 confirmed units hashing and even if they are at the stockholm airport on the way back home...it would count wouldnt it?  Needs 5 different local pickups to be able to do this...but thats a huge if and only if they get units up and hashing today!!!!!!!

Am I the only one checking each IP that reported a found block to see if it's a Swedish IP? Keep an eye there, tests are on-going as we speak Smiley

GREAT, btcguild is on the defense against DDOS AND CURRENTLY MY MINERS ARE DOWN......75 miles away and no remote access on my end....i hate the unexpected sometimes....and i hate being ill prepared even worse....my own doing dam
demonmaestro
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Activity: 574
Merit: 500


Mining for the hell of it.


View Profile
September 30, 2013, 10:38:36 AM
 #11799

they been under ddos since about 11:30 pm (gmt-6) so about 6 hours as of right now.

Feel Like Donating? bc1q0v5nfdejapffewu67gft7zw7zsmnfmmkt3lf02
Buy/Sell BitCoin & LiteCoin  Click here! | Looking for a great exchange? CoinBase Has you covered.
sbfree
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Activity: 336
Merit: 250



View Profile
September 30, 2013, 10:39:02 AM
 #11800

It is going to take JUST ONE company to release a profitable (clearly) miner to upend the whole market. And that, will be messy but much needed.

It cant happen. If Hashfast/cointerra/whomever slash their prices to the point where its "clearly profitable", all that will result in is more orders than they could possibly deliver. Or if they somehow could deliver, even at those prices it would turn out to be no longer profitable because difficulty would shoot through the roof.

Anything can happen. It takes one company that can meet demand or at least put out enough to make things fair. Obviously if you are selling money printing machines you are going to need to set limits.
To get the network more secure, it would be nice to allow more people access, instead of just selling to big pocketed people.

Anything is possible, just need to have an open mind...

YES, so go buy some USB ERUPTERS ON EBAY for about $20 bucks each....
Pages: « 1 ... 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 [590] 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 ... 2137 »
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!