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idee2013
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November 11, 2013, 11:20:49 AM |
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Hey O'rama!
They should make a firmware which doesn't care about watts and other bitching.....
Just run as fast as possible (maybe if it needs proper cooling). I think lots of us can do proper cooling and don't care this time about watts, just the hash power.
And yes, apply this FW for your own risk....
Just an idea....
+11111 |
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Bitcoinorama
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November 11, 2013, 11:40:59 AM |
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Umm, that's cool, but I can assure you not that's clearly not he case on all units. I have pictures of the one I took to Atlanta using a Kill-A-Watt, and there were enough witnesses that were present, including members of this forum (Bargraphics, Phin Gage), and representatives from competing companies that saw this for their own eyes. Also there's plenty in this thread amongst the first recipients to verify otherwise.
And I'd be willing to bet a few satoshi's that the unit you took to Atlanta did not have the same firmware as those units that were subsequently shipped out to Day 1 customers onwards...and that the voltage was tweaked upwards in the interim thus increasing the power requirements (in the name of increasing performance/stability, I'm sure). Couple the fact that the actual physical design of the product was changed quite substantially (8 VRMs to 4 VRMs) and it's not exactly apples-to-apples  No, you are wrong. It was a standard unit I made when at the manufacturing facility. By that point I had not seen my hotel for a week, and certainly no one had had anytime or were confident enough to tweak a unit. Literally decided on going. Booked a flight at 11pm, the night before, for an 11am take-off. Then searched for a hotel, made a device, drove several hours back to Stockholm, washed, packed and made my way to the airport. Thing is no way was a clocked machine risked that early. We had only seen the chips 5 days earlier and just had to have something that worked. Why if something performed well, would it not be given to customers. Austin and Beccy Craig from Life on Bitcoin have had it in their possession since that Atlanta conference. Can we please stop this 8/4 VRM nonsense. The additional 4 vrms were surplus to reaching spec. They were in place in the beginning in case they were needed to achieve the spec. They weren't so they aren't. Well that is surprising given the results that later cropped up with overcurrent PSU's and exploding capacitors..do you have a link to those kill-a-watt photos from Atlanta? I don't remember the values you saw there versus what was in the youtube video in Sweden. And just to clarify..when I said "tweaked" I meant subsequent production machines, not the one you took to Atlanta. In other words, my assumption was that the initial "beta" firmware or whatever you had then was running at say .8V and then when you guys decided on the production values for the boxes that were going to start shipping it was bumped to .9V for the added stability/speed benefits that brings. I wasn't suggesting that you custom-tuned the Atlanta box. But however it worked out in the order of events...there were definitely some growing pains in relation to power at the PSU and the power through the VRMs that had to be ironed out, as I know you are extremely familiar with As for the 8/4 thing...well, you keep saying it didn't matter when the facts showed that it did. There was a material difference in how those things ran before/after the change which had to be accounted for in new firmware. Again, I don't think it was some malicious conspiracy or anything..but I do think it was a reckless change that was done without adequate testing which caused issues that had to be addressed further down the road. Sure, as below, pretty sure I posted one of these before as I took a few for that reason. It was hard to balance the non-backlit LCD screen, with the bright Macbook Air Screen. This is with the Screen brightness turned down to it's lowest, so sorry there is two. Again there were a coupe of hundred people at the conference that witnessed the device's performance on the day.   So getting to the bottom of the 4/8 VRM thing, it was just brought up within an interview for a new engineer, which was cool as I have an answer from Marcus and it was definitely not a cost saving issue. The reason; KnC bought the entire world's supply from General Electric of those VRMs and could not get anymore without a month's wait, meaning a lot of people would have been without their kit if every board required them. They were indeed a margin and as you can see not necessary to reach the promised spec. GE could not supply more for any money, and there was actually a scary period where it was believed 8 may be necessary, in which case then there would have been a problem fulfilling all orders. |
Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful BTC Address ---> 1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp |
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Aggrophobia
Legendary
 Offline
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1000
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November 11, 2013, 12:02:46 PM |
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For a KNC Jupiter it could well end up drawing 750 Watts (perhaps a bit more) -- I would recommend a 1000 Watt supply as the minimum.
It would be better with a 1200 Watt capable supply. (Safety margin)
Most engineers like lots of safety margin. In this case the extra cost is cheap insurance.
You think KNC engineers have made the wrong recommendations with 850W PSU?
What specs do I need for the powersupply?
- A power supply (PSU) certified as 80+ Gold (high quality power with low variations).
- for Jupiter models, an 850 Watt PSU with a minimum of four separate PCI-E adaptors (6 pins or 6+2 pin).
- for Saturn models,a 600 Watt PSU with a minimum of two separate PCI-E adaptors (6 pins or 6+2 pins).
- for Mercury models, a 400 Watt PSU with a minimum of one PCI-E adaptor (6 pins or 6+2 pins).However, as some pointed out the new firmware is causing some units to draw more current (power). You pays your money -- you takes your choice. It's your money sunk into those miners -- not mine. I think that some have pointed out their Saturns are running close to 360-380 Watts -- a Jupiter has two more towers. Some of us own voltmeters and know how to use them -- so our opinions may be biased by the readings.  Cheers! Yes but the initial firmware was drawing around 550 watts at the wall, so you have an entire 300 watts grace. I've also seen those 850s comfortably pull 1000W recently, though I doubt they do so long term! i'm sorry to correct you, but the initial firmware(0.90) was 890-910W--- 0.9V @ ~60A per VRM Umm, that's cool, but I can assure you not that's clearly not he case on all units. I have pictures of the one I took to Atlanta using a Kill-A-Watt, and there were enough witnesses that were present, including members of this forum (Bargraphics, Phin Gage), and representatives from competing companies that saw this for their own eyes. Also there's plenty in this thread amongst the first recipients to verify otherwise. So i will say it was the case on 80% of the units delivered between oct 3rd and oct 10th, my 2 jupiters + saturn pulled 2,2kW from the wall till they got fixed with 0.93 All I have three firmware updates in this release, For people wanting to go back to the original release of .90 it can be found here www.kncminer.com/userfiles/file/kncminer-0.90.bin. Note: This release uses more power and is only recommended if you are having issues with the later releases. |
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bbxx
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November 11, 2013, 12:28:20 PM |
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anyone thinking about refund ?
now they are sold out!
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Bitcoinorama
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November 11, 2013, 12:29:16 PM |
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So i will say it was the case on 80% of the units delivered between oct 3rd and oct 10th, my 2 jupiters + saturn pulled 2,2kW from the wall till they got fixed with 0.93
Well I'd say 80% of the initial recipients posting on and/or around that time on the forum would disagree. The initial 8VRM boards didn't have that issue. The 4VRM modules did until the 0.95 fix apparently. |
Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful BTC Address ---> 1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp |
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lemonte
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November 11, 2013, 12:32:56 PM |
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I'm getting really excited now! I must refresh this page about 10 times a day!!
O'rama, is it the end of this week, or beginning of next that shipping for November's batch begins?
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Bitcoinorama
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November 11, 2013, 12:33:05 PM |
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Hey O'rama!
They should make a firmware which doesn't care about watts and other bitching.....
Just run as fast as possible (maybe if it needs proper cooling). I think lots of us can do proper cooling and don't care this time about watts, just the hash power.
And yes, apply this FW for your own risk....
Just an idea....
Yeah, but that would likely be a killer for the year long warranty given. Would be an RMA nghtmare bro... By the way that "substandard cooling" you currently have is rated for 320 Watts; http://www.arctic.ac/worldwide_en/products/cooling/cpu/freezer-30-co.htmlIt's way more than enough... |
Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful BTC Address ---> 1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp |
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Aggrophobia
Legendary
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Activity: 1064
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November 11, 2013, 12:33:26 PM |
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ok then it was 80% of the 4 VRM-users complaining, 8 VRM-users had nothing to complain about let's talk about other things, like upgrade modules, next gen units etc. ^^ |
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Aggrophobia
Legendary
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Activity: 1064
Merit: 1000
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November 11, 2013, 12:37:11 PM |
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Hey O'rama!
They should make a firmware which doesn't care about watts and other bitching.....
Just run as fast as possible (maybe if it needs proper cooling). I think lots of us can do proper cooling and don't care this time about watts, just the hash power.
And yes, apply this FW for your own risk....
Just an idea....
Yeah, but that would likely be a killer for the year long warranty given. Would be an RMA nghtmare bro... By the way that "substandard cooling" you currently have is rated for 320 Watts; http://www.arctic.ac/worldwide_en/products/cooling/cpu/freezer-30-co.htmlIt's way more than enough... Is the heatspreader on the die soldered or is there only thermal grease between the HS and the dies? btw the custom-solution with the aluminium bar is not really satisfying to bring enough pressure on the heatspreader without bending the pcb |
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markm
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2940
Merit: 1090
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November 11, 2013, 12:55:11 PM |
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Now that ckolivas has removed all the GPU and scrypt and such from cgminer, does cgminer take less RAM?
Might a firmware that uses that new cgminer possibly not run out of RAM?
Or is the RAM problem an actual memory leak in something therefore going to happen eventually no matter how small you make everything else?
-MarkM-
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CYPER
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November 11, 2013, 01:15:41 PM |
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Does anyone know if it is OK to connect 2 of my modules from Jupiter 1 to Jupiter 2. I will move just the ribbon data cables over, so Jupiter 2 has 6 modules connected to it, but 2 of these are still powered by Jupiter 1 PSU.
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ElGabo
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November 11, 2013, 01:34:28 PM |
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Hey O'rama!
They should make a firmware which doesn't care about watts and other bitching.....
Just run as fast as possible (maybe if it needs proper cooling). I think lots of us can do proper cooling and don't care this time about watts, just the hash power.
And yes, apply this FW for your own risk....
Just an idea....
Yeah, but that would likely be a killer for the year long warranty given. Would be an RMA nghtmare bro... By the way that "substandard cooling" you currently have is rated for 320 Watts; http://www.arctic.ac/worldwide_en/products/cooling/cpu/freezer-30-co.htmlIt's way more than enough... Yep, I think the same about RMA. But you know, if you don't do, will do somebody else...... Just an other question: Will you use this machine for one year? (No offense, and I know it's in law and other blah blah) But I think KNC won't RMA fired boards. If somebody kill it, dot it at your own risk. If i push the VRM-s with a screwdriver under load and after that I can smell a bit smoke will you RMA my board? If I fry the board with a 3rd party firmware will you make RMA? If I fry the board with HALF offical frimware with some overclocking wich was made by the engineers who made the machine but there is a HUGE USE AT YOUR OWN RISK after the dl link will you make RMA? I think you know the answer, like everybody. Still no offense, I like KNC and you, but it would be better some half offical overclock then non offical. But it's just my opinion..... |
" I'm waiting for my punishment, I know it's on my way
So cut, cut, cut me up and fuck, fuck, fuck me up"
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CMMPro
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November 11, 2013, 01:51:44 PM |
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I don't understand this ram issue....my Saturn has been running 0.97 for at least a week straight without a reboot.
And I only rebooted it then to change pools.
It doesn't slow down, it doesn't increase errors....it just keeps trucking along at 284.5gh.
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Bitcoinorama
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November 11, 2013, 02:03:29 PM |
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Hey O'rama!
They should make a firmware which doesn't care about watts and other bitching.....
Just run as fast as possible (maybe if it needs proper cooling). I think lots of us can do proper cooling and don't care this time about watts, just the hash power.
And yes, apply this FW for your own risk....
Just an idea....
Yeah, but that would likely be a killer for the year long warranty given. Would be an RMA nghtmare bro... By the way that "substandard cooling" you currently have is rated for 320 Watts; http://www.arctic.ac/worldwide_en/products/cooling/cpu/freezer-30-co.htmlIt's way more than enough... Yep, I think the same about RMA. But you know, if you don't do, will do somebody else...... Just an other question: Will you use this machine for one year? (No offense, and I know it's in law and other blah blah) But I think KNC won't RMA fired boards. If somebody kill it, dot it at your own risk. If i push the VRM-s with a screwdriver under load and after that I can smell a bit smoke will you RMA my board? If I fry the board with a 3rd party firmware will you make RMA? If I fry the board with HALF offical frimware with some overclocking wich was made by the engineers who made the machine but there is a HUGE USE AT YOUR OWN RISK after the dl link will you make RMA? I think you know the answer, like everybody. Still no offense, I like KNC and you, but it would be better some half offical overclock then non offical. But it's just my opinion..... Logic dictates unless the coin price vastly increases, and if hashrate takes a beating than a year long warranty is sufficient. That said the genesis block is already being proven entirely incorrect. In any case people will always demand an RMA and not mention how boards died. Sometimes it will be obvious, but rather they are the consequence of what was officially released. I do not doubt mods will occur, it's inevitable, and if all our boards start mysteriously dying of a similar symptom not present in our own they will be inspected for signs of stress, and if found to have been consequence of unofficial modding, then obviously RMA will be invalid. Latter revisions of boards will undoubtedly be pushed harder as we learn the loads the chip is capable of, the chip itself is not the issue, but the boards themselves will require supporting components to undergo continuous revision. |
Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful BTC Address ---> 1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp |
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Bitcoinorama
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November 11, 2013, 02:06:31 PM |
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I don't understand this ram issue....my Saturn has been running 0.97 for at least a week straight without a reboot.
And I only rebooted it then to change pools.
It doesn't slow down, it doesn't increase errors....it just keeps trucking along at 284.5gh.
The ram issue is created by the addition of unofficial mods that run simultaneous to the official firmware. They require optimisation. We have been in touch with the developer of those mods, as they are really useful, and we do want to consider supporting them, but in a means that does not deteriorate the long term performance of the product. |
Make my day! Say thanks if you found me helpful BTC Address ---> 1487ThaKjezGA6SiE8fvGcxbgJJu6XWtZp |
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CYPER
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November 11, 2013, 02:07:49 PM |
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Does anyone know if it is OK to connect 2 of my modules from Jupiter 1 to Jupiter 2. I will move just the ribbon data cables over, so Jupiter 2 has 6 modules connected to it, but 2 of these are still powered by Jupiter 1 PSU.
Anyone? |
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edgar
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1848
Merit: 1001
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November 11, 2013, 02:11:55 PM |
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after weeks of board 3 (slot 4) being my hottest at around 74.5 it now has an issue with Output Current of 0.438 A
since today, board 2 (slot 3) is now hotter as it was during previous fw, however i have not had any hardware concerns until now.
is there a newer fw on the horizon that will sort this, or should i expect to incur losses upon losses?
After hours upon hours of rebooting, resetting, reflashing, re-enabling & reading (& waiting) i have a 40Gh loss in actual performance - shall i just reflash it and wait 3-4 more hours...?
is there a newer fw on the horizon that will sort this, or should i expect to incur losses upon losses upon headaches upon time wasted?
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ElGabo
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November 11, 2013, 02:14:08 PM |
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Hey O'rama!
They should make a firmware which doesn't care about watts and other bitching.....
Just run as fast as possible (maybe if it needs proper cooling). I think lots of us can do proper cooling and don't care this time about watts, just the hash power.
And yes, apply this FW for your own risk....
Just an idea....
Yeah, but that would likely be a killer for the year long warranty given. Would be an RMA nghtmare bro... By the way that "substandard cooling" you currently have is rated for 320 Watts; http://www.arctic.ac/worldwide_en/products/cooling/cpu/freezer-30-co.htmlIt's way more than enough... Yep, I think the same about RMA. But you know, if you don't do, will do somebody else...... Just an other question: Will you use this machine for one year? (No offense, and I know it's in law and other blah blah) But I think KNC won't RMA fired boards. If somebody kill it, dot it at your own risk. If i push the VRM-s with a screwdriver under load and after that I can smell a bit smoke will you RMA my board? If I fry the board with a 3rd party firmware will you make RMA? If I fry the board with HALF offical frimware with some overclocking wich was made by the engineers who made the machine but there is a HUGE USE AT YOUR OWN RISK after the dl link will you make RMA? I think you know the answer, like everybody. Still no offense, I like KNC and you, but it would be better some half offical overclock then non offical. But it's just my opinion..... Logic dictates unless the coin price vastly increases, and if hashrate takes a beating than a year long warranty is sufficient. That said the genesis block is already being proven incorrect. In any case people will always demand an RMA and not mention how boards died. Sometimes it will be obvious, but rather they are the consequence of what was officially released. I do not doubt mods will occur, it's inevitable, and if all our boards start mysteriously dying of a similar symptom not present in our own they will be inspected for signs of stress, and if found to have been consequence of unofficial modding, then obviously RMA will be invalid. Latter revisions of boards will undoubtedly be pushed harder as we learn the loads the chip is capable of, the chip itself is not the issue, but the boards themselves will require supporting components to undergo continuous revision. Yep, I understood... In this way you are correct. But if you make a revision for the new machines and boards and you can increase the hash speed with better quality components there will be a lot of bitching from the early customers (investors) if you sell it for the non investors. (For example who payed in the 7 days.) So you have to make a good decision how to solve this without hurt your investors (such as me). I think you know what I mean. I won't be bitching for compensate or something but give a better product from "our" money wouldn't be correct. I know, I paid for 400, i got 560. That's nice but I (we) took risk, the new buyers not. Still no offense, just talk. (As you know now why I'm took the question how many box per day when you were at the open day) |
" I'm waiting for my punishment, I know it's on my way
So cut, cut, cut me up and fuck, fuck, fuck me up"
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RoadStress
Legendary
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Activity: 1904
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November 11, 2013, 02:53:38 PM |
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I do not doubt mods will occur, it's inevitable, and if all our boards start mysteriously dying of a similar symptom not present in our own they will be inspected for signs of stress, and if found to have been consequence of unofficial modding, then obviously RMA will be invalid.
Latter revisions of boards will undoubtedly be pushed harder as we learn the loads the chip is capable of, the chip itself is not the issue, but the boards themselves will require supporting components to undergo continuous revision.
Isn't 144GH/s per chip the maximum possible? I thought you can't push it faster because of the way it's built. |
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