Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[The Avenger]

I've been offered the option to refund in BTC at Bitstamp's exchange rate at the moment of the refund taking place. The really weird thing followed shortly after I requested refund on my 3 Neptunes, when they said it will be processed within 3-10 business days. Wasn't aware a BTC transfer might take so long (probably they're typing my wallet address 2-3 characters/business day?)  

I think this is a good indicator they have been mining the f'#k since October. 5% my a$$. I'm sure it's just semantics. Sam's wife probably paid 1 krona for 1000 Jupiters in their existing datacentre and hence, on paper, it's not knc mining more than 5%. Something like that, I'm sure.

If they had enough to "simply fill your wallets directly and you won’t have to worry about anything else" for 3600 Neptunes in July, they obviously have a massive stash they are going to use, not newly mined coins.

And now with the btc price falling like a rock, they think it's prudent to unload some, hedging their liabilities. And not to mention, breaking their sales contract regarding refunds, when it suits *them*.

Hell, they don't actually need any machines running - they can simply work out how much you are due for 3TH at difficulty in July (e.g. 0.0002BTC/day) and pay it to your wallet directly from their stash! One bitcoin will go a long way in July 2014!

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[vesperwillow]

I think this is a good indicator they have been mining the f'#k since October. 5% my a$$. I'm sure it's just semantics. Sam's wife probably paid 1 krona for 1000 Jupiters in their existing datacentre and hence, on paper, it's not knc mining more than 5%. Something like that, I'm sure.

Yup, I've been saying this. They can easily and legally say that they as "KNC" aren't mining with more than 5%, all the while having bought their own equipment for like a buck, mining the heck out of it at home.

I think we should start a clock (and petition) with time lines on what/when we what from KNC.  If we don't get realistic updates on what's happening with our orders then we should demand refunds.  And I also think it doesn't matter if you're a batch 0, 1 or 2, to just write in a TOS that you're batch 2 and you're not entitled to refund is BS (and probably illegal) especially if product you've ordered has even started production.  if product information is misleading then they don't have a leg to stand on.. We are the customers and customers are always right.

What have you been smoking? It seems to be premium stuff.

[baller1]

Well they just took off 1/2 their hash... again.. perhaps we're sniffing too hard people?
http://eligius.st/~wizkid057/newstats/userstats.php/1Nbq2XZaRsKknf5fcT2wTXvBS31PaUWSeX

Now watch when they jump back in, mind your hash and how it'll get crazy, Pool flux, I of course don't blame wizkid at all, he charges no fee and I'm sure his ports are melting when a damn near Petahash switches back on from off.. ugh.

Is that what they promised? only mining 5%?

Can someone please post the "news brief" explaining how they wouldn't build or sell anything for most of Q1 so previous buyers could stay competitive?

I don't see how any of that statement has merit if they're just mining themselves with the modules they could be selling.  I hate to start speaking litigiously.. god every miner maker seems to be going down this route.. but dependent upon the laws in Sweden, couldn't making promises and then breaking them be a legal issue for them?

[merv77]

I think we should start a clock (and petition) with time lines on what/when we what from KNC.  If we don't get realistic updates on what's happening with our orders then we should demand refunds.  And I also think it doesn't matter if you're a batch 0, 1 or 2, to just write in a TOS that you're batch 2 and you're not entitled to refund is BS (and probably illegal) especially if product you've ordered hasn't (typo) even started production.  if product information is misleading then they don't have a leg to stand on.. We are the customers and customers are always right.

What have you been smoking? It seems to be premium stuff.

The mood around here with most customers isn't good (you could see things differently), and the fact that bictoinorama hasn't been posting isn't a good sign.
yeh sure he's logging in to bitcointalk but he hasn't posted a word, making it look even more suspicious that KNC are up to no good.
I'm thinking that orama most probably knows KNC's intentions but hasn't got the heart to post a load BS just to cover up for KNC, even if he's on the payroll. 

Think about it, would you.

Also, just because they didn't include refunds as an option in Neptune batch 2 specs doesn't mean you're not entitled to ask and get a refund.  does it?

[AussieHash]

I've been offered the option to refund in BTC at Bitstamp's exchange rate at the moment of the refund taking place. The really weird thing followed shortly after I requested refund on my 3 Neptunes, when they said it will be processed within 3-10 business days. Wasn't aware a BTC transfer might take so long (probably they're typing my wallet address 2-3 characters/business day?) 

How were you able to get the bitcoin refund option ? did you phone them, or just send and email request ?

[vesperwillow]

Is that what they promised? only mining 5%?

Yes, in several of the beginning news letters/postings, and it was stated many times in this forum as well as through email by them, and most recently a few pages back.

Can someone please post the "news brief" explaining how they wouldn't build or sell anything for most of Q1 so previous buyers could stay competitive?

Had nothing to do about competition according to them.

The mood around here with most customers isn't good (you could see things differently), and the fact that bictoinorama hasn't been posting isn't a good sign.
yeh sure he's logging in to bitcointalk but he hasn't posted a word, making it look even more suspicious that KNC are up to no good.
I'm thinking that orama most probably knows KNC's intentions but hasn't got the heart to post a load BS just to cover up for KNC, even if he's on the payroll.  

Think about it, would you.

I know this, I'm one of the very few for the past 1,000 pages who've known about this stuff and predicted it long, long ago. I called them out on their bad business practices and poor customer service about 90 days ago.

They officially announced, a few pages back and through email and the newsletter, that they've basically put their foot down and do  not feel obligated to meet any of the demands which you just mentioned. Do you or anyone else hold them by their balls? Well then, having a countdown clock or stomping your foot won't do anything. In fact, they have everyone else by the balls. This has all been explained awhile back. It seems like folks are still slow to catch up.

RE refunds, their policy since day 1 has been to offer refunds for products up until the time of shipping, but they also held claim to changing that if necessary, which they have for Batch 3. (Some call it batch 2). They're exercising their rights, they're not doing anything wrong. It's up to the consumer to read the print and terms of agreement at time of purchase.

At best you could say their TOS were in breach when they failed to produce upgrade modules for 2013 Batch's 1 and 2, and have rescinded making them for batches 1 & 2 Neptune. Also, when they failed to uphold the NPS, which most folks here agree on, but nobody is taking legal action so far, at least that has been mentioned.

And.. the customer is most certainly not always right, that's such a silly phrase. A customer stomping their foot because they can't get what they want, doesn't make them right.

[Minor Miner]

got some terraminers running.   I was really confused for a while because I was so used to removing all the screws, opening the case, re-installing the fans, removing the wires to plug in the power supply and looking for other damage before starting a miner that I had no idea some miners could just be plugged in and they ran.   Where is the fun in that?
I did not even get any cuts from crappy bent aluminum with stripped screws. 

[NetTime]

It's become clear with everything that's been discussed since the most recent newsletter that this will not end well (for us KnC's customers).  They have completely betrayed us.  

[Phoenix1969]

I've been offered the option to refund in BTC at Bitstamp's exchange rate at the moment of the refund taking place. The really weird thing followed shortly after I requested refund on my 3 Neptunes, when they said it will be processed within 3-10 business days. Wasn't aware a BTC transfer might take so long (probably they're typing my wallet address 2-3 characters/business day?)  

How the Hell are they supposed to send you BTC from Bitstamp when BTC withdrawals are frozen for the past 2 days?
If they COULD......   would you want them to, knowing it could get lost in the transaction?
Best to wait 'till the withdrawal bugs are fixed.

and.....   Could you post a copy of that E-mail where they offered a BTC refund for Neptune?  I have a hard time believing that one.

[arlekyn13]

I've been offered the option to refund in BTC at Bitstamp's exchange rate at the moment of the refund taking place. The really weird thing followed shortly after I requested refund on my 3 Neptunes, when they said it will be processed within 3-10 business days. Wasn't aware a BTC transfer might take so long (probably they're typing my wallet address 2-3 characters/business day?) 

How were you able to get the bitcoin refund option ? did you phone them, or just send and email request ?

Email request after asking some questions about projected Neptune development with some specific dates to which questions I got no answers except what we already knew about Plan B as a backup to plan A
They said something about that due to the fact I used Bitpay to place the orders, I will receive the refund in BTC:

"HI me,

Yes, we did. However since you paid via Bitpay, we will refund BTC to your wallet, can you tell us your wallet address. Thanks!

Med vänlig hälsning |  Best regards

Lucy Edvardsson
Kncminer
www.kncminer.com
Office: +46 8559 253 20"

"What exchange rate will be used? Bitpay's at the moment of refund?

Thanks,
me"

"HI,

We will use bitstamp's rate at the time when we transfer coins to you. Thanks!

Med vänlig hälsning |  Best regards

Lucy Edvardsson
Kncminer
www.kncminer.com
Office: +46 8559 253 20"

"Hi,

Your order is marked as refund ready for process in our system now, it will takes between 3 to 10 business days for us to process your refund. We will mark your order as cancelled when the refund is done, thanks!

Med vänlig hälsning |  Best regards

Lucy Edvardsson
Kncminer
www.kncminer.com
Office: +46 8559 253 20"

[Phoenix1969]

That's just WILD... thanks.
After all this time... lol.
Just be aware BTC in will NOT equal BTC out in the sense that they are not a hedge fund, and it will be for fiat value at time of refund.

[Minor Miner]

That's just WILD... thanks.
After all this time... lol.
Just be aware BTC in will NOT equal BTC out

Can you explain this to me?
If he paid $10,000 and at the time that was only 9BTC and now he is refunding what will he get?

1.  9BTC (worth about $5850)
2.  $10,000 / $650 = 15.4 BTC

[vesperwillow]

That's just WILD... thanks.
After all this time... lol.
Just be aware BTC in will NOT equal BTC out

Can you explain this to me?
If he paid $10,000 and at the time that was only 9BTC and now he is refunding what will he get?

1.  9BTC (worth about $5850)
2.  $10,000 / $650 = 15.4 BTC

#2.

KNC has given out refunds in BTC about 5 times now.

[arlekyn13]

That's just WILD... thanks.
After all this time... lol.
Just be aware BTC in will NOT equal BTC out

Can you explain this to me?
If he paid $10,000 and at the time that was only 9BTC and now he is refunding what will he get?

1.  9BTC (worth about $5850)
2.  $10,000 / $650 = 15.4 BTC

I paid the $ amount in BTC. I will receive the same $ amount in BTC. Might be more/less than the initial amount of BTC transferred to pay for my order, depending on the exchange rate evolution on Bitstamp during the next 3-10 business days

[Minor Miner]

That's just WILD... thanks.
After all this time... lol.
Just be aware BTC in will NOT equal BTC out

Can you explain this to me?
If he paid $10,000 and at the time that was only 9BTC and now he is refunding what will he get?
1.  9BTC (worth about $5850)
2.  $10,000 / $650 = 15.4 BTC

#2.
KNC has given out refunds in BTC about 5 times now.

If the network is 40PH/s when you get the machine that runs at 3TH/s, the 15.4 BTC now looks pretty good.

[arlekyn13]

If the BTC price goes to $2000 on Bitstamp during the next 3-10 business days, I will get a lot less BTC  

Morale: buying mining gear is a gamble, refunding an order is just as thrilling gamble

[Phoenix1969]

If the BTC price goes to $2000 on Bitstamp during the next 3-10 business days, I will get a lot less BTC  

Morale: buying mining gear is a gamble, refunding an order is just as thrilling gamble

doubt that...  looks like you'll do great... GL

[arlekyn13]

And good luck to every KNC customer, no matter if you decide to go on with your orders or back off like I did. It wasn't an easy decision and I still have doubts about it. But I have 7.2TH coming in beginning of Apr (maybe end of March) and I decided that it's enough with the 1.25TH/s I have now. The refund funds will go into scrypt mining most likely.

[dropt]

How the Hell are they supposed to send you BTC from Bitstamp when BTC withdrawals are frozen for the past 2 days?[...]

That's not what he said.

[Cablez]

If the BTC price goes to $2000 on Bitstamp during the next 3-10 business days, I will get a lot less BTC  

Morale: buying mining gear is a gamble, refunding an order is just as thrilling gamble

Why would it take 3-10 business days to send some BTC?  That is a big window in BTC land.