Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[The Avenger]

--snip--
Also, providing the plan B hashpower only in June, the last possible month of their production promise, this shows that they never intended to come anywhere close to Q1 when announcing shipment in Q1/Q2.

While this isn´t legally misleading, it was at least psychologically.

They've done nothing but mislead people and believe that it's solid business practice.

http://www.va.se/special/knc-miner-631834

The bitcoin fever, just as other gold rushes, has occasionally been chaotic. Large fortunes have been won and lost. Fights, bluffs and mistrust have been common. In short, it has been a bit of a Wild West. Even KNC Miner has a turbulent history. “We lied the whole time.” That is how Andreas Kennemar describes the strategy they used to reach the position they have today within the bitcoin world today, as a respected and profitable company.

Every thing they write is written with an underlying message.

For example, they said the window to switch to the Frankenjups was 7 days, they had them in stock and would ship them immediately. Which would have been shipping Wednesday/Thursday this week, if they had them in stock. So that was more lies.

They later let it slip that "Production is currently ongoing", confirming my hunch from a few days ago that they never built 400 Frankenjups "on spec", the probably just had a working prototype and then put the newsletter out filled with lies, ready to exploit people with inferior technology. 18 Jupiter boards at roughly $200 per boards = you paid $10k (or $12k) for $3.6k of boards rammed into a units with a 90 day warranty, what you usually get with reconditioned/refurbished/used goods. KNC must be rubbing their hands with glee at this robbery their customers have willingly agreed to.

So it's farily easy to conclude they didn't have any Frankenjups "in stock" - it was pure lies. As soon as the 8th April newsletter when out and they started to get interest, they probably started to build these freak machines from the 9th onwards. They probably assume they are genius JIT manufacturers. But they are in fact a corrupt business, built on a model of lying and exploitation of customers and customers money.

When they are interviewed, they seem to think they are morally sound and they are doing something to be proud of. They are supporting the local Boden community, sponsoring the ladies handboll team with fees from the kncwallet app. If only people knew the money is coming from dirty business practices, lies and putting completely fabricated and misleading information out there (e.g. announcing they were "getting closer to the launch date of Neptune" back in February, when now saying they are hoping to start shipping in June  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg6127028#msg6127028 - how is February "close" to June, except in the mind of someone trying to mislead), I dont think they'd be so proud of this "great" Swedish start-up.

When are coindesk and other bitcoin news websites going to stop being toothless whores for these manufacturers and start writing the truth about what they do? I've yet to see the coindesk article where they report on how KNC lied and betrayed their customer based and went well and truly beyond the "not mining more than 5% of the hashrate they sold" (they must be close to almost 100% of that by now with the datorhall) and are basically a corrupt bunch of asshole looting the bitcoin community and should be treated like a whore who is scratching herself way too much - everyone walk away and stay away. Lest you give them more power to thrive on their lies and exploit everyone.

P.S. I am available for children's parties

[1713240834]

1713240834

[1713240834]

1713240834

[1713240834]

1713240834

[1713240834]

1713240834

[1713240834]

1713240834

[JWU42]

P.S. I am available for children's parties

Thanks for that - best line of the day!

[xstr8guy]

The waiting-before-doing-the-refund is a really shady tactic, they are most likely aiming to getting a lower number of refunds if people on the forums claim it takes some time.

Additionally it might be cashflow related, as they probably don´t just have the cash lying around if they take 200 or so refund requests, which is not to say they don´t have the cash or assets, it might just not be readily available for instant bank-wire transfer.

Maybe they also hope (and this is pure speculation on my part) to sell some of the 3rd batch products and just take that money to refund earlier customers.


The really sad thing in my opinion is that people accepted a 30% overpriced (25% on hardware + cost of psus) Frankenjupiter with a 20% too high power efficiency for their money, which should have given them bleeding-edge 20nm mining technology.
However it looks like the efficiency of the Neptune will most likely be no better than 0,7J/Gh, so not really worth the wait.
If they pull out some crazy hashrate increase to 4,5 TH, which seems doable, they will have lost a lot of customers by not communicating to the people funding their operations with thousands of dollars tied up in the investment.

Still, 4,5 TH only gives you 2,22$ / GH in June, which you can nearly get now.

A bird in the hand, blah, blah, blah.  I took the offer for FrankenJup.  Even if the Neptune is 5THs and is delivered at the end of June (which it won't be), the FrankenJup is the better option.

Obviously a refund is the best choice but I decided against it for various reasons but mainly because I'm a miner and wanted the 3THs as quickly as possible.  Spondoolies in June or waiting for the third batch of S2s (I have a batch 2) is out of the question.  And those A1 clones, I just don't trust them for some reason.

[Paladin69]

The waiting-before-doing-the-refund is a really shady tactic, they are most likely aiming to getting a lower number of refunds if people on the forums claim it takes some time.

Additionally it might be cashflow related, as they probably don´t just have the cash lying around if they take 200 or so refund requests, which is not to say they don´t have the cash or assets, it might just not be readily available for instant bank-wire transfer.

Maybe they also hope (and this is pure speculation on my part) to sell some of the 3rd batch products and just take that money to refund earlier customers.


The really sad thing in my opinion is that people accepted a 30% overpriced (25% on hardware + cost of psus) Frankenjupiter with a 20% too high power efficiency for their money, which should have given them bleeding-edge 20nm mining technology.
However it looks like the efficiency of the Neptune will most likely be no better than 0,7J/Gh, so not really worth the wait.
If they pull out some crazy hashrate increase to 4,5 TH, which seems doable, they will have lost a lot of customers by not communicating to the people funding their operations with thousands of dollars tied up in the investment.

Still, 4,5 TH only gives you 2,22$ / GH in June, which you can nearly get now.

A bird in the hand, blah, blah, blah.  I took the offer for FrankenJup.  Even if the Neptune is 5THs and is delivered at the end of June (which it won't be), the FrankenJup is the better option.

It's like saying a sandwich with 1 gram of shit in it is better than a sandwich with 2 grams of shit in it if you're forced to eat one.  The price of BTC needs to be $1200 now for you to break even when instead you could've bought more BTC with your $10K at current levels.

[xstr8guy]

The waiting-before-doing-the-refund is a really shady tactic, they are most likely aiming to getting a lower number of refunds if people on the forums claim it takes some time.

Additionally it might be cashflow related, as they probably don´t just have the cash lying around if they take 200 or so refund requests, which is not to say they don´t have the cash or assets, it might just not be readily available for instant bank-wire transfer.

Maybe they also hope (and this is pure speculation on my part) to sell some of the 3rd batch products and just take that money to refund earlier customers.


The really sad thing in my opinion is that people accepted a 30% overpriced (25% on hardware + cost of psus) Frankenjupiter with a 20% too high power efficiency for their money, which should have given them bleeding-edge 20nm mining technology.
However it looks like the efficiency of the Neptune will most likely be no better than 0,7J/Gh, so not really worth the wait.
If they pull out some crazy hashrate increase to 4,5 TH, which seems doable, they will have lost a lot of customers by not communicating to the people funding their operations with thousands of dollars tied up in the investment.

Still, 4,5 TH only gives you 2,22$ / GH in June, which you can nearly get now.

A bird in the hand, blah, blah, blah.  I took the offer for FrankenJup.  Even if the Neptune is 5THs and is delivered at the end of June (which it won't be), the FrankenJup is the better option.

It's like saying a sandwich with 1 gram of shit in it is better than a sandwich with 2 grams of shit in it if you're forced to eat one.  The price of BTC needs to be $1200 now for you to break even when instead you could've bought more BTC with your $10K at current levels.

Buying and holding bitcoin is effing boring and I simply won't do it.  It isn't for everyone and neither is mining.  I buy miners because I like to mine.

Btw, I haven't spent fiat on miners since my first few purchases.  All of my big ticket mining purchases have come from bitcoin that I've earned mining.  I cashed out my initial fiat investment a long time ago.  If that's not a positive ROI, then tell me what it is.

[sbfree]

I am still waiting on my refund requested on 4th April.
Liam told me: Refunds are usually processed within 10-15 working days but can take longer during busy periods.

I think it is bullshit how we have to bust our ass to get them funds to be in a waiting queue, but they can take their sweet time refunding us.

Yep, They don't want peeps refunding for Spooners Machines... By making the refunding process like "Molasses in winter", they can easily "Up the amount" they will earn when they add your Neptune to the farm by delaying refunding of Mining investment funds.
Just another factor of "Greed Syndrome", just like waiting 4 months to release upgrade cards for $350 dollars after they have gone well beyond ROI, and are ready to begin stocking the Boden facility with the next gen.
Ooooh, let's make a Franken-Jupiter too! While getting rid of old stuff, we can ship those out next week, and only give them 3th/s!
They wont care it takes 3- 1200 watt psu's to run it, really... and if we wait to ship them until a couple days before Easter, we can squeeze a few more days out of the Difficulty level!
Evil Geniuses. They did it all perfect; absolutely flawless.

Because I'm one of the victims of their delayed tactics I managed to work out a special deal for people who are waiting for refunds from KnC:

Waiting for your Neptune refund?
Secure your place now by sending the reservation fee and pay only 3000$ per unit when required and pay the rest after you get your refund. You will need to have proof of asking refund. That will be mandatory!
5.4 TH/s miner for $4,495, August delivery.

Happy Easter to everyone!

I am in on this one.....waiting for my Frankenjups, errr... I mean 3TH Jupiters and then will dump/launch them when the time is right and come back to earth with my Yukon

[tzortz]

Fuck them, i'll jump to spoondoolies.

[tzortz]

Time to move forward: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=575499.0

I'm still waiting for 2 refunds from KnC...

Guys, lets go all together to spoondoolies, they look serious and accurate.

I will take it.

Fuck knc shit. They used our money.

[Collider]

"Neptune is our first 20nm product. This order is for the Third batch which will leave about one month after the Second batch"

Does that mean, if the second batch for some reason gets delivered (delivered as in 20nm hardware in hand, not some sort of compensation) in Q3,

the batch which is now for sale (!without any kind of refund option) could be delivered as late as Q4?

I mean the description of the delivery date is so wide-open to ANY interpretation.....
And why are these units priced at only 60% of the batch before? Surely only one month delay from Q2 doesn´t explain that....


Edit: "However, if you
buy something ... online or from a door-to-door salesperson, you have 14 days’ right to cancel
when shopping within Sweden. The Swedish
Distance and Door-to-Door Sales Act includes the requirement that the seller gives you
clear information on how you can cancel your purchase."

In many European countries these 14 days right to cancellation is extended until the vendor informs you of this right.
Still, if for some reason you bought into the new Neptune batch, this should give you the right to get your money back within 14 days, if you choose to want to.

[Collider]

Time to move forward: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=575499.0

I'm still waiting for 2 refunds from KnC...

Guys, lets go all together to spoondoolies, they look serious and accurate.

I will take it.

Fuck knc shit. They used our money.

Dont forget, you can get 2,8 TH sp10s delivered in early May for 7200$....
Thats nearly the hashrate of your Neptune right there, plus some cash to go shopping, and no more waiting until June.

Or get some A1 clones for a good price today. Either way, you can have your almost 3TH(+) today for the price KnC took,
even more if you were unlucky and paid 12k for the first regular batch.

Plus you won´t have to go and buy your own PSUs amounting to another 300$-450$ savings.

[raskul]

Time to move forward: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=575499.0

I'm still waiting for 2 refunds from KnC...

Guys, lets go all together to spoondoolies, they look serious and accurate.

I will take it.

Fuck knc shit. They used our money.

Dont forget, you can get 2,8 TH sp10s delivered in May for 7200$....
Thats your Neptune right there, plus some cash to go shopping, and no more waiting until June.

Or get some A1 clones for a good price today. Either way, you can have your 3TH(+) today for the price KnC took...

Nobody thought this would happen? As soon as KnC started announcing that datorhall, they should have expected someone would come along with actual good intentions and pull the rug from under their feet, sad though it is to say, i'll give that KnC farm until christmas before they are forced to power it down due to an actual spread of the network hashrate being too big for it to cope... alternatively Dr Bunsen and Beaker could become resellers for Spondoolies in Scandinavia 

[edgar]

Time to move forward: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=575499.0

I'm still waiting for 2 refunds from KnC...

Guys, lets go all together to spoondoolies, they look serious and accurate.

I will take it.

Fuck knc shit. They used our money.

Dont forget, you can get 2,8 TH sp10s delivered in May for 7200$....
Thats your Neptune right there, plus some cash to go shopping, and no more waiting until June.

Or get some A1 clones for a good price today. Either way, you can have your 3TH(+) today for the price KnC took...

Nobody thought this would happen? As soon as KnC started announcing that datorhall, they should have expected someone would come along with actual good intentions and pull the rug from under their feet, sad though it is to say, i'll give that KnC farm until christmas before they are forced to power it down due to an actual spread of the network hashrate being too big for it to cope... alternatively Dr Bunsen and Beaker could become resellers for Spondoolies in Scandinavia 

That will be when they finally decide to sell us those upgarde modules etc we wanted 6 months ago.


though theyll still try over-charging everyone and offering a 45 minute warranty

[RoadStress]

--snip--
Also, providing the plan B hashpower only in June, the last possible month of their production promise, this shows that they never intended to come anywhere close to Q1 when announcing shipment in Q1/Q2.

While this isn´t legally misleading, it was at least psychologically.

They've done nothing but mislead people and believe that it's solid business practice.

http://www.va.se/special/knc-miner-631834

The bitcoin fever, just as other gold rushes, has occasionally been chaotic. Large fortunes have been won and lost. Fights, bluffs and mistrust have been common. In short, it has been a bit of a Wild West. Even KNC Miner has a turbulent history. “We lied the whole time.” That is how Andreas Kennemar describes the strategy they used to reach the position they have today within the bitcoin world today, as a respected and profitable company.

Every thing they write is written with an underlying message.

For example, they said the window to switch to the Frankenjups was 7 days, they had them in stock and would ship them immediately. Which would have been shipping Wednesday/Thursday this week, if they had them in stock. So that was more lies.

They later let it slip that "Production is currently ongoing", confirming my hunch from a few days ago that they never built 400 Frankenjups "on spec", the probably just had a working prototype and then put the newsletter out filled with lies, ready to exploit people with inferior technology. 18 Jupiter boards at roughly $200 per boards = you paid $10k (or $12k) for $3.6k of boards rammed into a units with a 90 day warranty, what you usually get with reconditioned/refurbished/used goods. KNC must be rubbing their hands with glee at this robbery their customers have willingly agreed to.

So it's farily easy to conclude they didn't have any Frankenjups "in stock" - it was pure lies. As soon as the 8th April newsletter when out and they started to get interest, they probably started to build these freak machines from the 9th onwards. They probably assume they are genius JIT manufacturers. But they are in fact a corrupt business, built on a model of lying and exploitation of customers and customers money.

When they are interviewed, they seem to think they are morally sound and they are doing something to be proud of. They are supporting the local Boden community, sponsoring the ladies handboll team with fees from the kncwallet app. If only people knew the money is coming from dirty business practices, lies and putting completely fabricated and misleading information out there (e.g. announcing they were "getting closer to the launch date of Neptune" back in February, when now saying they are hoping to start shipping in June  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=170332.msg6127028#msg6127028 - how is February "close" to June, except in the mind of someone trying to mislead), I dont think they'd be so proud of this "great" Swedish start-up.

When are coindesk and other bitcoin news websites going to stop being toothless whores for these manufacturers and start writing the truth about what they do? I've yet to see the coindesk article where they report on how KNC lied and betrayed their customer based and went well and truly beyond the "not mining more than 5% of the hashrate they sold" (they must be close to almost 100% of that by now with the datorhall) and are basically a corrupt bunch of asshole looting the bitcoin community and should be treated like a whore who is scratching herself way too much - everyone walk away and stay away. Lest you give them more power to thrive on their lies and exploit everyone.

P.S. I am available for children's parties

Avenger i must give you credit when and where you deserve it. Even if you were obviously over exaggerating things in the past and you were bad intended towards KnC from the start when things weren't so bad as now, I must admit that you won this and KnC lost it. Hats off to you sir!

Not selling overpriced upgrade boards and/or Jupiters in December/January was a very stupid thing for KnC to do, but i understand them somehow. They didn't want to deal with a customers when they were busy planning for their big ass DC. Selling upgrade boards now for 350$ and delaying shipping and also delaying refunds for people when everyone knows that they made 500k$ per day(maybe ~200-300k$ per day now) from self-mining is simply outrageous. I still stand behind what argument we had in the past, but I am trying to be a fair and reasonable guy here. KnC was a great company back in Jupiter days when compared with companies existing at that time, but as i said it's time to move forward. So long KnC, we had a blast!

[Phoenix1969]

Time to move forward: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=575499.0

I'm still waiting for 2 refunds from KnC...

Guys, lets go all together to spoondoolies, they look serious and accurate.

I will take it.

Fuck knc shit. They used our money.

Dont forget, you can get 2,8 TH sp10s delivered in May for 7200$....
Thats your Neptune right there, plus some cash to go shopping, and no more waiting until June.

Or get some A1 clones for a good price today. Either way, you can have your 3TH(+) today for the price KnC took...

Nobody thought this would happen? As soon as KnC started announcing that datorhall, they should have expected someone would come along with actual good intentions and pull the rug from under their feet, sad though it is to say, i'll give that KnC farm until christmas before they are forced to power it down due to an actual spread of the network hashrate being too big for it to cope... alternatively Dr Bunsen and Beaker could become resellers for Spondoolies in Scandinavia  

That will be when they finally decide to sell us those upgarde modules etc we wanted 6 months ago.


though theyll still try over-charging everyone and offering a 45 minute warranty

Really?

[Collider]

While the price for the upgrade board seems attractive and fair, keep in mind that you still need to buy the heatsink and fan, pay for shipping and the PSU on top of that.

[padrino]

While the price for the upgrade board seems attractive and fair, keep in mind that you still need to buy the heatsink and fan, pay for shipping and the PSU on top of that.

Received 12 last week, gives me something to do with my empty controller boards, I had some fun making a 6 module system, adding the 5th and 6 port to all of my Jupiters today just in case I end up bumping them up as well..

[whonesta]

Day 12 without response nor refund, 3 emails ignored, Worthless POS == KnC. They just can not get their fist far enough up our asses to satisfy their greed. Hey shit bags how about giving me that interest free loan back you scumbag liars!

[Chiledog]

I added up the entire hash rate of all the Scrypt coins on Coin Warz and it came to 260gh.  That isn't very much.  If KNC produces 1000 Titans (Just a guess), each with 300Mhashs, that would dump 300GH onto the script mining network!  That will more than double the total hash power on the network.    This will double the difficulty, just from KNC titans. 

Many of the new alt coins would be overwhelmed by a single Titan because their total hash power isn't even 1 titan worth (300Mhashs.  )  Only Dog coin (71Ghashes) and Lite Coin (151Ghashes) could withstand more than a few Titans on their network.    So most of the new hash power will have to go into those two coins.  And they aren't the most profitable coins. 

So...I'm looking for the real number.  How many Titans and Mini Titans is KNC producing?  Anybody know?

Here is the raw data (in Gigahashes):

71
1.5
1.5
151
2
1.8
1.85
1
0.021
0.07
11.7
0.35
0.5
0.7
0.2
0.1
0.08
0.1
0.03
0.07
0.5
0.2
0.07
0.02
0.1
0.03
0.02
0.02
0.2
0.1
0.02
3.3
0.02
0.08
0.08
0.03
0.4
0.01
0.9
0.07
0.03
0.1
0.7
0.01
0.2
0.01
0.01
0.02
0.2
0.2
0.1
0.03
0.1
0.05
0.007
0.7
0.2
0.04
0.01
0.05
0.4
0.09
0.009

255.007 GigaHashes

[incognitoworker]

Knc have now real competition on scrypt market...
asiabtc offers 60mh machines.shipping at latest 21.may, when will knc deliver...?
if i read corect, knc can impossible deliver before mid june, most likely later.

[5craziest]

I added up the entire hash rate of all the Scrypt coins on Coin Warz and it came to 260gh.  That isn't very much.  If KNC produces 1000 Titans (Just a guess), each with 300Mhashs, that would dump 300GH onto the script mining network!  That will more than double the total hash power on the network.    This will double the difficulty, just from KNC titans.  

Many of the new alt coins would be overwhelmed by a single Titan because their total hash power isn't even 1 titan worth (300Mhashs.  )  Only Dog coin (71Ghashes) and Lite Coin (151Ghashes) could withstand more than a few Titans on their network.    So most of the new hash power will have to go into those two coins.  And they aren't the most profitable coins.  

So...I'm looking for the real number.  How many Titans and Mini Titans is KNC producing?  Anybody know?

Here is the raw data (in Gigahashes):

71
1.5
1.5
151
2
1.8
1.85
1
0.021
0.07
11.7
0.35
0.5
0.7
0.2
0.1
0.08
0.1
0.03
0.07
0.5
0.2
0.07
0.02
0.1
0.03
0.02
0.02
0.2
0.1
0.02
3.3
0.02
0.08
0.08
0.03
0.4
0.01
0.9
0.07
0.03
0.1
0.7
0.01
0.2
0.01
0.01
0.02
0.2
0.2
0.1
0.03
0.1
0.05
0.007
0.7
0.2
0.04
0.01
0.05
0.4
0.09
0.009

255.007 GigaHashes

They had sold at least 200 by the end of March, and they've said they hope to make 2,500 units with the first batch.  I was a little interested, but came up with similar numbers.  Unless you get one of the first dozen machines, I'm afraid your going to lose a lot of money with the Titan.  Your basically spending twice as much as most bitcoin miners,  hoping to acquire altcoins worth a fraction of the value while difficulty skyrockets