Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[RealMalatesta]

Read the TOS also... we are NOT consumers, we are "businesses",
as agreed.
[/quote]

Just as a funny side-line: I ordered the miners for a company. However, KnC does not let me fill in the business name, but only my name. So much about "business".

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[RealMalatesta]

Good luck on Legal action... Considering court "backlogs", and the general slowness of the courts...
Especially in the area of consumer protection...
You would be lucky to get your case heard in court within a year or two in USA...
Is it like that in EU as well?
You would need "criminal" pursuits to get any timely action here,
and they are careful to classify consumer product orders under civil, and not criminal, especially when you are not even local.
Best luck will probably be right in Stockholm if you live there.
Wish you the best... just fair warning on what to expect.

The civil case normally should go pretty quickly.  It is standard procedure.

Read the TOS also... we are NOT consumers, we are "businesses",
as agreed.
I don't see any way around that one.
https://www.kncminer.com/pages/tandc

"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."

So what? This case is not about consumer protection, it is about not paying back money. So in your opinion, they shouldn't pay back to a business if they agree to pay a refund?

Heh, no, I'm "on your side"  I'm only pointing out your hurdles

There's no hurdle: A civil claim for getting money back is not a matter of consumer protection but of "Kronofogden". Consumer protection is handled by the Swedish Consumer Agency. I've written them, too, basically because "unfair contract terms" - I wrote them after I had a long conversation with one of their lawyers, telling them about the TOS and how they want that clients declare themselves as business instead of individual. However, I haven't got a response from them yet.

[Phoenix1969]

Good luck on Legal action... Considering court "backlogs", and the general slowness of the courts...
Especially in the area of consumer protection...
You would be lucky to get your case heard in court within a year or two in USA...
Is it like that in EU as well?
You would need "criminal" pursuits to get any timely action here,
and they are careful to classify consumer product orders under civil, and not criminal, especially when you are not even local.
Best luck will probably be right in Stockholm if you live there.
Wish you the best... just fair warning on what to expect.

The civil case normally should go pretty quickly.  It is standard procedure.

Read the TOS also... we are NOT consumers, we are "businesses",
as agreed.
I don't see any way around that one.
https://www.kncminer.com/pages/tandc

"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."

So what? This case is not about consumer protection, it is about not paying back money. So in your opinion, they shouldn't pay back to a business if they agree to pay a refund?

Heh, no, I'm "on your side"  I'm only pointing out your hurdles

There's no hurdle: A civil claim for getting money back is not a matter of consumer protection but of "Kronofogden". Consumer protection is handled by the Swedish Consumer Agency. I've written them, too, basically because "unfair contract terms" - I wrote them after I had a long conversation with one of their lawyers, telling them about the TOS and how they want that clients declare themselves as business instead of individual. However, I haven't got a response from them yet.

So, you are letting a government agency handle the case?
UG. Good luck man... civil servant lawyers are among the least experienced, and are required to "serve" to get that experience, hence a "court appointed attorney" same thing.  That's like going to the dental school for facial surgery...scary. I suggest a REAL attorney, who is a member of a large firm, so you can organize a class-action suit. That's probably the path of "least resistance", but will also take time, just like BFL. You know how many cases BFL has against them? Hundreds. A year later, they are still selling vaporware machines to whoever will buy.
This is a huge mess in a cloudy area to say the least.

[RealMalatesta]

You need to build a CRIMINAL case, and that may be extremely difficult. You will need a savvy lawyer, and plenty of money to pay him/her. A court-appointed attorney in this case will get you booted from the backlog before you can say rumplestiltskin.

I absolutely agree. But the cheapest way to get the material a lawyer needs to build a criminal case is the civil case. I don't know how these cases are handled in the US, but here it is pretty clear as described by the authorities:

The Enforcement Authority sends a letter, order to pay, concerning the claim to the party from which you wish to receive payment (the defendant). The letter contains a slip which the defendant shall fill in and return. It is proof that the letter has been received.
 
The person receiving the letter may react in different ways:

    The person makes the payment to you. If the entire debt is paid off you must promptly request a withdrawal of your application in writing. You must also inform us if only part of the debt is paid.
    The person writes us and objects to (contests) the debt. We inform you as such and you then decide whether you wish for your application to be passed on to the courts for further processing. If you do not wish for the courts to further the process, the Enforcement Authority will dismiss the case.
    The person does not contact the Enforcement Authority. In this case, the Enforcement Authority will issue a verdict. The verdict shall state that the defendant is obligated to pay the debt which is the subject of your claim.

Most probably, Knc will contest the debt. However, as a member of Teledata - a Swedish debt collecting agency - I can ask them to go against KnC. They will hate this, for it will affect their creditworthiness.

[server]

You guys are making a hell of a noise, but still RoadStress received his BTC-refund within 2 days.

So what's the problem ? Just ask a BTC refund, double your investment and hodl

[RealMalatesta]

You guys are making a hell of a noise, but still RoadStress received his BTC-refund within 2 days.

So what's the problem ? Just ask a BTC refund, double your investment and hodl

I asked for a BTC refund. KnC: ",,,we will process this for you as soon as possible." So how many days is "as soon as possible"? Obviously more than two days.

[Phoenix1969]

You need to build a CRIMINAL case, and that may be extremely difficult. You will need a savvy lawyer, and plenty of money to pay him/her. A court-appointed attorney in this case will get you booted from the backlog before you can say rumplestiltskin.

I absolutely agree. But the cheapest way to get the material a lawyer needs to build a criminal case is the civil case. I don't know how these cases are handled in the US, but here it is pretty clear as described by the authorities:

The Enforcement Authority sends a letter, order to pay, concerning the claim to the party from which you wish to receive payment (the defendant). The letter contains a slip which the defendant shall fill in and return. It is proof that the letter has been received.
 
The person receiving the letter may react in different ways:

    The person makes the payment to you. If the entire debt is paid off you must promptly request a withdrawal of your application in writing. You must also inform us if only part of the debt is paid.
    The person writes us and objects to (contests) the debt. We inform you as such and you then decide whether you wish for your application to be passed on to the courts for further processing. If you do not wish for the courts to further the process, the Enforcement Authority will dismiss the case.
    The person does not contact the Enforcement Authority. In this case, the Enforcement Authority will issue a verdict. The verdict shall state that the defendant is obligated to pay the debt which is the subject of your claim.

Most probably, Knc will contest the debt. However, as a member of Teledata - a Swedish debt collecting agency - I can ask them to go against KnC. They will hate this, for it will affect their creditworthiness.

hmm, that sounds like a good idea to add pressure... but where does that go legally? It would just give them a poor credit rating here, and they don't need credit anymore, as they are rich already, and have no need for credit.
But if that can order payment as you say... great!

[RoadStress]

You guys are making a hell of a noise, but still RoadStress received his BTC-refund within 2 days.

So what's the problem ? Just ask a BTC refund, double your investment and hodl

But I will still tip RealMalatesta if he gets a written document from any "Enforcement Authority"

hmm, that sounds like a good idea to add pressure... but where does that go legally? It would just give them a poor credit rating here, and they don't need credit anymore, as they are rich already, and have no need for credit.

Sam will need credit credit as a private person.

[server]

You guys are making a hell of a noise, but still RoadStress received his BTC-refund within 2 days.

So what's the problem ? Just ask a BTC refund, double your investment and hodl

I asked for a BTC refund. KnC: ",,,we will process this for you as soon as possible." So how many days is "as soon as possible"? Obviously more than two days.

Maybe you can call them... that solved the problem for RoadStress... +46 8559 253 20

[RealMalatesta]

But I will still tip RealMalatesta if he gets a written document from any "Enforcement Authority"

Hehe :-) And if I get the money or BTC from KnC, I'll throw 1 BTC into a pot which we will use for a BBB (Belgium-Beer-Barty)... :-p

[RealMalatesta]

You guys are making a hell of a noise, but still RoadStress received his BTC-refund within 2 days.

So what's the problem ? Just ask a BTC refund, double your investment and hodl

I asked for a BTC refund. KnC: ",,,we will process this for you as soon as possible." So how many days is "as soon as possible"? Obviously more than two days.

Maybe you can call them... that solved the problem for RoadStress... +46 8559 253 20

Hm, probably will do this tomorrow...  for I'm pretty sure that they are now in Boden polishing their rigs...

[RealMalatesta]

You need to build a CRIMINAL case, and that may be extremely difficult. You will need a savvy lawyer, and plenty of money to pay him/her. A court-appointed attorney in this case will get you booted from the backlog before you can say rumplestiltskin.

I absolutely agree. But the cheapest way to get the material a lawyer needs to build a criminal case is the civil case. I don't know how these cases are handled in the US, but here it is pretty clear as described by the authorities:

The Enforcement Authority sends a letter, order to pay, concerning the claim to the party from which you wish to receive payment (the defendant). The letter contains a slip which the defendant shall fill in and return. It is proof that the letter has been received.
 
The person receiving the letter may react in different ways:

    The person makes the payment to you. If the entire debt is paid off you must promptly request a withdrawal of your application in writing. You must also inform us if only part of the debt is paid.
    The person writes us and objects to (contests) the debt. We inform you as such and you then decide whether you wish for your application to be passed on to the courts for further processing. If you do not wish for the courts to further the process, the Enforcement Authority will dismiss the case.
    The person does not contact the Enforcement Authority. In this case, the Enforcement Authority will issue a verdict. The verdict shall state that the defendant is obligated to pay the debt which is the subject of your claim.

Most probably, Knc will contest the debt. However, as a member of Teledata - a Swedish debt collecting agency - I can ask them to go against KnC. They will hate this, for it will affect their creditworthiness.

hmm, that sounds like a good idea to add pressure... but where does that go legally? It would just give them a poor credit rating here, and they don't need credit anymore, as they are rich already, and have no need for credit.
But if that can order payment as you say... great!

In the worst of all cases, I'll have to sell my claim against KnC for a fraction of the dollar to Teledata. So I would get some money, while Teledata would make the noise. But this is, in my opionion, only "Plan B from outer Space".... First, I'd like to get an official walking into their premises and seize some material (daydreaming). ..

[HardwareReviewer]

Something doesn't quite add up here:

All,

So last week we really messed up. We sent out products to our customers which arrived broken, damaged and quite frankly unusable.

So in order to fix this the best way we can. We are not asking for these products back from anyone who has received them already. We will simply assume that every card was damaged in shipment even if it arrived undamaged. We will send out to every customer who had a 3TH Jupiter or several already arrive, enough cards to replace their entire collection,

There is no way our customers should have to suffer because of our mistake in not properly securing the components during shipment


and:

Hi,

Apologies for the delay in reply. We understand your concern and frustration with the issues regarding the damaged and non functioning boards. Please provide us with information on how many boards you have which are dead or not fully functional and we will issue the RMA for the boards to be sent back to us for replacement.

If possible please run the following diagnostic file and provide us with the results. We will then be able to see the exact issues and provide you with further assistance or the RMA for the board to be replaced.

https://www.kncminer.com/userfiles/file/diag-1.2-E.bin

To run this file simply download it to your computer and apply it the same way as a firmware update. The results will be printed to the screen once the test has completed.

Thanks in advance and apologies for the inconvenience caused.



Best regards  |
Med vänlig hälsning

Keith Gurnett

[bittawm]

KnC declared today that their 3TH Super Juniors are safe to run and refuse to issue refunds. My last reply to them, now let the courts decide
Today, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by Kurt
Hi, Provided that all the components are connected properly and that you have 1 PCI-e cable per ASIC board, your miners will of course be safe to run. We understand that due to problems with shipping some components had been damaged, but in resolution additional ASIC boards had been sent to you. It is impossible to assist you further if you will not use the replacement boards to fix your miner. With these additional ASIC boards, you will need to re-assemble your miner and replace the faulty ASIC boards inside the case. I can see that you have a case open with my colleague, he will be able to offer you any assistance you require in order to help you set up your miner.
Thanks for your reply Kurt.


My reply:
I will use your statement that your 3TH Super Jupiters are safe to run and pose no risk when I submit my report to the Consumer protection agency. I will also have a written testimony of a certified technician included which will state and explain in details why those Super Juniors are a danger to run outside a supervised data centre. As KnC refuses to refund the money to customers they have scammed with second hand goods which mostly arrived damaged, it will be a case for the courts to decide.

I hope you don't mind that the press has been informed and I will do my best to get documented testimony from as many of the 400 Super Jupiter as possible proofing that KnC willingly sold faulty second hand parts to customers which do pose a danger. If KnC thinks that in a few days the public will forget about this scandal and your way to get 4.000.000 USD by dumping off used hardware stuff from your data centre onto customers who had supported you since the beginning, you will be wrong.

I hope that no miner will suffer any damage while running your dangerous mining equipment. You have not only lost me as a customer but also lost the respect of the whole mining community. There is no need to post another offer to send back your faulty ASIC board cards for replacement.

I have explained you in detail per email that I do not trust your mining equipment any longer.

As you refuse to refund my money I will do my best to join together with other of the 400 cheated Super Jupiter customers to pursue a lawsuit against KnC.

If they sent you replacement boards; you are compensated in the eyes of the law. I don't see what ground you have to bring it to court. You'd best talk with a lawyer before you waste too much energy on that.
CE certification is required for power supplies, not the components, and since the TOS clearly states you are agreeing you are a business, you are then NOT even a consumer, and are rejected from any "Consumer Protection Laws."

is this true, are we not protected?

[Phoenix1969]

Looks like 1st shipment reply vs. replacement shipment comment... but yeah...
what is the reply when all boards are dead again on the replacement shipment?
We haven't seen the outcome from that email reply with the results yet.... have we?
Other than "We will be contacting UPS for a claim?
UPS isn't that stupid.  lol.
When they see packages they inspect with wires holding components together, KNC may indeed be in for a fraud case then... lol.


***Best thing IMHO is for someone to call or visit the Stockholm UPS office with machine in hand, and direct them here, show them the pics... before KNC effects global shipping prices with their mistakes and dishonesty.

400 times 10k...  twice!  (8 million dollars)ouch.

[joeventura]

Good luck on Legal action... Considering court "backlogs", and the general slowness of the courts...
Especially in the area of consumer protection...
You would be lucky to get your case heard in court within a year or two in USA...
Is it like that in EU as well?
You would need "criminal" pursuits to get any timely action here,
and they are careful to classify consumer product orders under civil, and not criminal, especially when you are not even local.
Best luck will probably be right in Stockholm if you live there.
Wish you the best... just fair warning on what to expect.

The civil case normally should go pretty quickly.  It is standard procedure.

Read the TOS also... we are NOT consumers, we are "businesses",
as agreed.
I don't see any way around that one.
https://www.kncminer.com/pages/tandc

"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."

You guys are hysterical, You have no future as lawyers.

Do you or have you applied for the license, permit, whatever to conduct a business?

Then you are NOT a business.

They asked you to accept a TOS so that asked you to attest to something that was not true.

If the TOS said "By purchasing this, you hereby attest that you are a banana"

You still are not a banana, although MANY of you act as if you are.

[bittawm]

Looks like 1st shipment reply vs. replacement shipment comment... but yeah...
what is the reply when all boards are dead again on the replacement shipment?
We haven't seen the outcome from that email reply with the results yet.... have we?
Other than "We will be contacting UPS for a claim?
UPS isn't that stupid.  lol.
When they see packages they inspect with wires holding components together, KNC may indeed be in for a fraud case then... lol.


***Best thing IMHO is for someone to call or visit the Stockholm UPS office with machine in hand, and direct them here, before KNC effects global shipping prices with their mistakes and dishonesty.

400 times 10k...  twice!  (8 million dollars)ouch.

agree, where is batman when you need justice

[tzortz]

Batman or Bitman?

[RealMalatesta]

400 times 10k...  twice!  (8 million dollars)ouch.

Well, that may be the reason why they have marked my refund as "ready for process" as well as "payed" while it is in fact not paid at all. They just live according to the KnC-slogan: "If you can not impress them with skills, then mess with bullshit!"
 

[RealMalatesta]

Good luck on Legal action... Considering court "backlogs", and the general slowness of the courts...
Especially in the area of consumer protection...
You would be lucky to get your case heard in court within a year or two in USA...
Is it like that in EU as well?
You would need "criminal" pursuits to get any timely action here,
and they are careful to classify consumer product orders under civil, and not criminal, especially when you are not even local.
Best luck will probably be right in Stockholm if you live there.
Wish you the best... just fair warning on what to expect.

The civil case normally should go pretty quickly.  It is standard procedure.

Read the TOS also... we are NOT consumers, we are "businesses",
as agreed.
I don't see any way around that one.
https://www.kncminer.com/pages/tandc

"1.2   The Products are sold for business use only and Purchaser hereby accepts that it has purchased the Products in order to conduct a business."

You guys are hysterical, You have no future as lawyers.

Do you or have you applied for the license, permit, whatever to conduct a business?

Then you are NOT a business.

They asked you to accept a TOS so that asked you to attest to something that was not true.

If the TOS said "By purchasing this, you hereby attest that you are a banana"

You still are not a banana, although MANY of you act as if you are.

Muahaha, i WILL put this in the TOS someday!