Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[s1gs3gv]

I'd love to know how you can get much below $200k for a 1mw DC. Rent alone should be ~$50-100K/year.

Probably government subsidies

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[xstr8guy]

So what exactly is a Mini Neptune going to be... 2 1/2 boxes? Lol. Obviously the Neptune was designed to have 6 chips but they figured out that they could overclock them and remove one board and still get 3THs.

Cheap bastards!

[Guy Corem]

My misguided favorite AM SH. It's late and I'm going to sleep, but I need to explain something.
Assuming you want to deploy, you need to look at $/GHs cost at the deployment level. Whether it will be DC, AC IC or KNC Chicken Farm (Boden).

We have customers that knows to deploy (without miners cost but with building, electricity, air cooling etc) at sub $200K/MW
Which is extremely cheap. Even if you do 1.4 PUE, but with $0.025/KWh (depends on your locale only), you get much better numbers than what you wrote. Especially with SP30 ...

Do the math.

What is the monthly rent on a 1mw warehouse? I don't doubt $200k/MW is possible but that is only $300k less than an immersion container but rent savings alone will probably be more than $300k. That is in addition to the electricity savings of ~$90k/year (400KW @ $0.025/kwh)

Also how can you get better numbers with an sp30? Datatank hardware production costs are $0.53/gh vs your material costs of $0.5/gh. Will you be selling SP30 in a few weeks for $3200 each? (including shipping)

By sub $200K/MW, I meant TOTAL cost. And it's actually very big sub.

(How did you get to the conclusion that SP30 material cost is $0.5/GHs ? Don't you understand the meaning of "assume" ?)

- SP30 BOM (without NRE) is $3,000

...
Assume the following (not exact figure, just to get the idea):
- SP30 BOM (without NRE) is $3,000
...

I'd love to know how you can get much below $200k for a 1mw DC. Rent alone should be ~$100-150K/year.

You would, would you  
Not by building IC tank, I can assure you.

[fubly]

So what exactly is a Mini Neptune going to be... 2 1/2 boxes? Lol. Obviously the Neptune was designed to have 6 chips but they figured out that they could overclock them and remove one board and still get 3THs.

Cheap bastards!

5 Boxes with each 750 Gh/s = 1 Neptune  = 3,75 Th/s
2 Boxes with each 750 Gh/s = 1 Mini Neptune = 1,5 Th/s

5 Boxes = 2100 Watt = 420 Watt each Box = each needs 2 x PCI-e = 1 PSU 1500 Watt (best efficiency 95% possible) = min. 6 direct PCi-e cables

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
https://www.kncminer.com/pages/faq
For Neptune, we recommend the following:
- For the Neptune model, you will need either two 1,200 Watt power supplies or three 850 Watt power supplies(6 pins or 6+2 pin).
- For the Neptune Mini, you will need either one 1,200 Watt power supplies or 2x 650 Watt power supplies(6 pins or 6+2 pin).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Do not forget an your calculations that they open on the next few day an datacenter with more hasing power as we all togehter bought.
For what do you think is the new  KNCMINER Wallet

10 MW Datacenter = 10.000.000 Watt / 2100 = 4761 Neptun's = 17.901 Terra Hashes/s

Crime number one in 2015 will be: stealing electricity

[jimmothy]

...
Assume the following (not exact figure, just to get the idea):
- SP30 BOM (without NRE) is $3,000
...

Ok so that $0.5/gh number was just made up.

I can only assume that your BOM must be lower than that.

So will you be offering sp30s for $3200 shipped in a few weeks?

[Guy Corem]

I'd love to know how you can get much below $200k for a 1mw DC. Rent alone should be ~$50-100K/year.

Probably government subsidies

AFAIK, it's not the case. It is BitFury case, I believe.

[Guy Corem]

...
So will you be offering sp30s for $3200 shipped in a few weeks?

No.
If I'll do that, what will happen to AM SH dividends ? Haven't you suffered enough ?

On second thought, contact sales@ and we'll do a special deal for you. You'll be able to compare it with all kind of rocks coming out from china  

[jimmothy]

...
So will you be offering sp30s for $3200 shipped in a few weeks?

No.
If I'll do that, what will happen to AM SH dividends ? Having you suffered enough ?

On second thought, contact sales@ and we'll do a special deal for you. You'll be able to compare it with the all kind of rocks coming out from china 

You won't really have a choice.

As soon as these datatanks go up for sale you will have to match their price to compete gather preorders.

Thanks for the offer but I don't have that kind of money to spend on hardware especially a preorder.

And BTW those "rocks from china" are powering a majority of the network (well at least before difficulty exploded)

[Guy Corem]

...
So will you be offering sp30s for $3200 shipped in a few weeks?

No.
If I'll do that, what will happen to AM SH dividends ? Having you suffered enough ?

On second thought, contact sales@ and we'll do a special deal for you. You'll be able to compare it with the all kind of rocks coming out from china 

You won't really have a choice.

As soon as these datatanks go up for sale you will have to match their price to compete gather preorders.

Thanks for the offer but I don't have that kind of money to spend on hardware especially a preorder.

And BTW those "rocks from china" are powering a majority of the network (well at least before difficulty exploded)

You're clueless, on both of the statement you made.
Quick question: Did you read the IPO terms ?

[Powell]

Guy, if I wanted to a 1mW datacenter using your hardware could you deliver it in a month (30 day window) or would this be $200k and be ready in September or October; or with a large customer could something be delivered sooner along with an earlier batch.  If I had any kind of proof that this was possible I might fully be inclined to building out seeing as financially that is no issue and knowledge and resources from our personal company (we are one of the larger IBM partners in the southern US (sales wise)).  I looked at the past in doing a large roll out but even utilizing SP10's I could not see it as feasible.

The reality of you having someone hold off 3 months+ compared to filling it with current hardware that is available costly for profits (everyone knows this).  You could be cycling hardware as it comes in and out.  I should note that my post bashing the fan boys of your hardware is in no way related to you all as a company.  We have talked via email and PM multiple times over the last few months and you all are probably one of the most down to earth mining companies, so my beef is not at all with SP-Tech.

[jimmothy]

You're clueless, on both of the statement you made.
Quick question: Did you read the IPO terms ?

Quick answer: I skimmed through it. Why?

Which statements?

I'll admit that I don't know how you can build a 1MW DC for less than $200k.

But how does that change the fact that datatank is offering $0.93/gh and $0.025/kwh where as you are offering $0.85/gh and ~$0.25/kwh starting 3 months later?

[Guy Corem]

Guy, if I wanted to a 1mW datacenter using your hardware could you deliver it in a month (30 day window) or would this be $200k and be ready in September or October; or with a large customer could something be delivered sooner along with an earlier batch.  If I had any kind of proof that this was possible I might fully be inclined to building out seeing as financially that is no issue and knowledge and resources from our personal company (we are one of the larger IBM partners in the southern US (sales wise)).  I looked at the past in doing a large roll out but even utilizing SP10's I could not see it as feasible.

The reality of you having someone hold off 3 months+ compared to filling it with current hardware that is available costly for profits (everyone knows this).  You could be cycling hardware as it comes in and out.  I should note that my post bashing the fan boys of your hardware is in no way related to you all as a company.  We have talked via email and PM multiple times over the last few months and you all are probably one of the most down to earth mining companies, so my beef is not at all with SP-Tech.

Unfortunately not.

The ASIC lead time is 3 months - TSMC 28nm allocations. If you know TSMC CEO, it might help, but I'm not sure. Really. They're playing fair with all the customers.
PO by the 5th, ASICs 3 months afterwards. I'm not hiding ASICs or miners. All July and August were sold out.
We have decent September batch, which is selling fast. We're working to secure funds to cover October batch.
I've explained lead time issues in our thread.

Guy

[Guy Corem]

You're clueless, on both of the statement you made.
Quick question: Did you read the IPO terms ?

Quick answer: I skimmed through it. Why?

Which statements?

... First payments are expected when the initial hardware is deployed, 3-6 months after successful fund raising ...

I'll admit that I don't know how you can build a 1MW DC for less than $200k.

But how does that change the fact that datatank is offering $0.93/gh and $0.025/kwh where as you are offering $0.85/gh and ~$0.25/kwh starting 3 months later?

Apples and Oranges. The electricity cost is simply the locale. Fill a DT with RockerBox and you'll get much, much better numbers.
And as I've explained, you can get much, much, much, much better numbers with other cheap deployments methods.

Edit: And on a serious note. The affiliation between AC DT and AM is very loose. It was stated in the IPO for one reason only, get all AM fan boys buy another stock. Cynical but effective move. Working as we can see.

[s1gs3gv]

Why are Guy and Jimmothy slugging it out in the KNC thread ? You are both seriously off-topic.


KNC is shipping the Neptune … shouldn't y'all get busy now ….

[Guy Corem]

Why are Guy and Jimmothy slugging it out in the KNC thread ? You are both seriously off-topic.

Indeed. Got carried away. Going to sleep now.

[raskul]

aren't AC DT testing a few different chips? not only AM.
they'll take the cheapest, at the end of the day. have KfC sent any 20nm chickie in the baskie to test ?

[Powell]

Then sadly the best bet right now is buy the cheapest miner per W at the moment.  A $200k mW that won't get up and running until September or October is worth less than lets say a $250k mW datacenter that could be up in a month.  Then slowly cycle in products like the SP30 but it would be stupid to throw all your eggs in 1 basket and hope.  That seems to be the average thought on this forum though.  People swear by this product is going to LAST!  In reality I don't want to keep a miner more than a month or two without bringing in something new.  You can sell the old and bring in new these are not products like a server, etc...  Long term use SHOULD be 6 months at MAX!

[RHA]

Datatank offering: $0.93/gh 0.6w/gh $0.025/kwh (starts hashing in a few weeks)

Jimmothy, from the Datatank prospectus, page 10:

Profits will be paid weekly in form of dividends. First payments are expected when the initial hardware
is deployed, 3-6 months after successful fund raising.

So not in a few weeks. (IPO starts on 24th June, it will take some time, then add 3-6 months.)

[jimmothy]

You're clueless, on both of the statement you made.
Quick question: Did you read the IPO terms ?

Quick answer: I skimmed through it. Why?

Which statements?

... First payments are expected when the initial hardware is deployed, 3-6 months after successful fund raising ...

I'll admit that I don't know how you can build a 1MW DC for less than $200k.

But how does that change the fact that datatank is offering $0.93/gh and $0.025/kwh where as you are offering $0.85/gh and ~$0.25/kwh starting 3 months later?

Apples and Oranges. The electricity cost is simply the locale. Fill a DT with RockerBox and you'll get much, much better numbers.
And as I've explained, you can get much, much, much, much better numbers with other cheap deployments methods.

Edit: And on a serious note. The affiliation between AC DT and AM is very loose. It was stated in the IPO for one reason only, get all AM fan boys buy another stock. Cynical but effective move. Working as we can see.

Looks like I jumped the gun on the starting date.

Regardless the hosting cost is the real killer. $0.025/kwh has to be the best I've heard.

And I do hope you offer your chips at a reasonable price so these tanks can be filled with even more hashing power. As you said the connection with AM is weak but that is not why I am interested. I only care about the numbers not which companies chips will be used. I don't have access to $0.025/kwh and neither do most people and the fact that you only need to buy 18GH/s to get industrial level electricity rates makes the offer very attractive.

[2112]

aren't AC DT testing a few different chips? not only AM.

Allied Control will try anything, all possible chips, all possible ways of deceiving and all possible ways to bribe.

The short of it is that immersion cooling is nearly pointless for Bitcoin mining. Just mount the mining chips on a small PCBs directly onto the "secondary cooling loop" from their design. Then the "secondary" becomes "only".

The issue here is the sales commissions from 3M for flogging engineered fluids with astronomical profit margins.