Swedish ASIC miner company kncminer.com

[s1gs3gv]

it's obvious they are very afraid of upcoming lawsuit, so now they try to change their tune by posting this, it's possible that statement was advised by their legal team:
"When we launched the Titan batch 1 miner and accepted pre-orders we advertised a 100/250 MHs straight-forward Litecoin-miner, and we're happy to conclude the final product over-delivers on all accounts, being able to also mine many derivatives of the original Scrypt algorithm, and is hashing at a higher speed than advertised."

Yeah, that is a total lie. I hope Magnus subpoenas their digital records to prove the 'suitable for all scrypt applications' claim was on the original product page. It was on the batch2 Titan product page too. I saw it and so did many others. Very few of us were interested in just mining LTC at that time as better profits were often to be had mining other scrypt coins. Nobody wanted a machine that could only mine LTC then and few do now.

And despite promises, the Titan is NOT able to mine many derivatives of the original scrypt algorithm currently.

The best you can say for the POS Titan is that it "mines some coins on some pools for some people some of the time" at 300+ Mh/s.

~L)L~

KNC are obviously flapping in the wind on this one and trying to rewrite history to save their ass. The machine they shipped is not the machine they advertised. Lies don't change facts in a court of law. End of Story. Subpoena their records.

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[s1gs3gv]

has anyone had their RMA request at KNC's expense refused recently?

This is not uncommon. One customer nearly had a fire following a melted power connector and KNC made him pay to ship his cube back. They wouldn't reimburse him for the shipping expenses associated with his PSU RMA either.

They are cheap thieving devious lying b*stards who over promise and under deliver. Right now they are trying to suck yet more money
out of ?investors? for their 'Solar' project while some Neptune customers have been waiting for refunds for months.

Their MO is to talk up a product or project, raise interest free loans through pre-orders or ?investor? deals, deliver as little as possible at the last possible moment and redirect as much capital as they can to building out their own mining projects.

By all accounts there isn't a person left on these forums who wouldn't be happy to see them rot in hell.

[Searing]

The elephant in the room imho with KNC and no compensation no refunds and all the rest of the stuff they are trying to pull boils down to two things

1) keep all us unhappy customers at bay and not show any weakness and THEY CAN NEVER  say their 1st batch chips were bad etc or the big $$$
    for the 16nm IPO from the class 1 and class 2 investors in their next big data hall (knc's next 'marks' in the scam big $$$) will start
    to ask 'uncomfortable questions" to say the least.

2) I think KNC sold at LEAST 2500 Titans (no refund) some say more like 5000 (but maybe that is high) so that is between $25 to $50 MILLION Dollars
    so it is simple....they have 2 choices

     a) compensate us because of the noise we make as to no endanger the next big 16nm project and/or data hall etc (paid for with Titans would be
         them having to give up all them nice $$$ (not gonna happen)

     b) or pay a LAW FIRM say $1 to $2 Million dollars to tie this up in the swedish courts for say  5 to 7 years .....

   It will be (b) from their actions.....way way more cost effective even if they do lose .....then there would be the appeal another 2 years say etc etc

It is basic big corp tactics and each day and each lie/omission etc is them setting the groundwork in their favor

anyway how I think it is gonna play out ..they have already shown they will not back down an inch nor live up to their previous statements to me
this seems the obvious ploy..esp as they edit their own TOS and history on the site......I expect the next big push from the class action folk and  or  if bitcointalk press
ever actually made some news on this they...ie the heat on all this knc fud heats up that is in the public news that they
will announce that it is all groundless ....tell everyone they can't even talk about it anymore.... and announce they  have retained the services from a large law firm
known world wide.....and hell probably close down the KNC forums and have all tech issues go thru email with canned replies "all is well" once it hits that point.

again hope I'm wrong....but from watching the 1999 dot com crash and 2007-08 crash in USA this is pretty much standard operating procedure
to protect yourself

[mishax1]

I guess they can count on 2 more unsatisfied customers joining the lawsuit 

[cryptodevil]

When we launched the Titan batch 1 miner and accepted pre-orders we advertised a 100/250 MHs straight-forward Litecoin-miner,

Ok KnC, apart from that bullshit claim, which isn't supported by anything other than the wayback-machine's archive of your original Titan sales page showing it to be in your 'Litecoin Mining Hardware' category, which doesn't actually qualify as being a product specification because, well, you had an actual product specification list for this device and it proudly boasted of a 250Mh/s scrypt mining capability, how *are* you going to handle the other inconvenient truth that it couldn't mine Litecoin on 'p2pool'?

I mean, even if we were to entertain your ludicrous attempt to claim the Titan was sold as a Litecoin miner, why could it not mine Litecoin on p2pool?

Was this something you knew from the beginning but chose to omit from the specifications, exposing you to charges of fraudulent misrepresentation?

Was this something you only discovered much later in the development path of the Titan, exposing you to simply needing to honour cancellation and refund requests from people who asked for it?

You see, if you insist on this new excuse of yours, that the Titan was purchased on pre-order by customers who were fully armed with the fact that you were selling them the Titan as a, "straight-forward Litecoin-miner", you'll be needing to actually come up with some evidence that supports such an unusual claim, especially considering the mountain of evidence to the contrary that exists on your very own website that the Titan was to be your first product 'dedicated to scrypt mining', entirely absent the phrase 'straight-forward Litecoin mining'.

Failure to provide sufficient evidence of having properly informed your customers at the time of this 'fact' you are only now claiming, will risk your company being exposed to fraud-related charges.

If, however, you choose to finally accept the fact that your customers were entitled to cancel based on the new information that came to light about the Titan's limitations of use, your company will be exposed to refund costs and you can process them and go about your merry way with all your grand schemes for the future.

It's not that difficult a choice, one takes you further down the legal rabbit-hole and could wind up with your company in big trouble, the other just reduces your profit for the year by a little bit.

What's so hard about making the right decision KnC?

[cryptodevil]

Oh dear KnC, you made a little boo boo again!

Missed the fact that your own staff confirmed that, while it was primarily designed to mine Litecoin it also . . .
http://forum.kncminer.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/32234-mining-software-details-on-titan?p=32368#post32368
31st March 2014, 12:09 PM

Hi,

Our Titan miner is primarily designed to mine Litecoin, this will however be able to mine other Scrypt currencies too.

OOPSIE!

But, just in case you're still not sure about how definite the whole 'altcoin' mining or pool capability being claimed for the Titan was, try . . .

You will be able to mine any pool or Scrypt currency that you choose.

Sounds great! Can I have one of these awesome scrypt miners that can mine both Litecoin and other Scrypt currencies on any pool that I choose too?

No?

Why?

Ohhhhh, yeah, because it doesn't actually do that currently.

[s1gs3gv]

how *are* you going to handle the other inconvenient truth that it couldn't mine Litecoin on 'p2pool'?

I mean, even if we were to entertain your ludicrous attempt to claim the Titan was sold as a Litecoin miner, why could it not mine Litecoin on p2pool?

Was this something you knew from the beginning but chose to omit from the specifications, exposing you to charges of fraudulent misrepresentation?

You are on a roll man. I was going to bring up the LTC p2pool contradiction myself !

Oh, btw, can these things run in load balancing mode on different pools ? Last time I checked it was a no-no.

[s1gs3gv]

if bitcointalk press
ever actually made some news on this

Hey Searing, don't hold your breath on the paparazzi press going with this story. I think they put their advertising revenue numbers before 'doing the right thing' every day.

Maybe the real takeaway from all the stories of greed, fraud and corruption in the bitcoin world is that cryptos as we know them today have failed to meet their promise and are now doomed to a valuation trending towards 0.

[s1gs3gv]

I guess they can count on 2 more unsatisfied customers joining the lawsuit  

I've kinda lost interest in pre-ordering Swedish products myself. Mining equipment OR lawyers.

[cryptodevil]

Oh, btw, can these things run in load balancing mode on different pools ? Last time I checked it was a no-no.

ORLY?!

I did not know that was yet another LIMITATION OF USE issue. Pesky things them limitations. Sort of thing you'd be needing to disclose prior to taking your customer's money, especially considering your firm is promoting the Titan for pre-order as being something more than capable of mining anything scrypt anywhere the customer wants.

Somewhat counter to the entire notion of these device being sold with known limitations if, you know, you haven't actually said ANYTHING ABOUT LIMITATIONS OF USE, to your customer. Well, to be fair, you did eventually acknowledge that there were LIMITATIONS OF USE, right about when customers started receiving them and reporting how they appeared to have very LIMITED range of coins and pools they could actually function on.

[thorvald]

Today I received the refund asked April 28.
Full refund +10%

The steps that I made .

1.1 Open a case at the Swedish police department for internet fraud     eta never

     Received after 3 month a letter that they are going to close the case , this come after discussions between kncminer lawyer and the police .
     Called the officer in charge of my case , it was changed 2 times , never could reach it (every time waited about 1h on phone  )
     I think all the case will have the same outcome

1.2 Open a case at ECC   eta never
    
    They did not help me because I`ve open a case at the police and alternate method was selected from my part (this is plain stupid )
    Response come after lots of emails in about one month .

1.3  Open a case at ARN  eta ~3.5-4 month
    They send 2 letters to knc about 1.5-2 month time in between
    The lawyer from knc responded at the second one (after the due date) that the purchase was made by me as a business and that I`m not a consumer, the current terms of
    sales ware added at the end of the email by the knc lawyer and also some stupid information about the product (ex: it needs a datacenter cooling it is getting very hot during
    operation , the power usage is high and it needs a dedicated power line  )
    Email to Arn was sent regarding the Distance sell low , and European low regarding unfair contracts terms , and also that during the purchase and registration process no  
    information was requested and no verification submitted in regard to a business to business purchase
    In the beginning of December Arm will take knc to court for my case but I received the refund  so  I`ll close the case tomorrow with Arn

Best
T


  

[Searing]

if bitcointalk press
ever actually made some news on this

Hey Searing, don't hold your breath on the paparazzi press going with this story. I think they put their advertising revenue numbers before 'doing the right thing' every day.

Maybe the real takeaway from all the stories of greed, fraud and corruption in the bitcoin world is that cryptos as we know them today have failed to meet their promise and are now doomed to a valuation trending towards 0.

yeah no chance..they probably lost big ad revenue folks who went against knc by doing links when the coindesk article squeaked about frankenjupiters.....seems like this is bigger and getting less press..again my point if they did sell 2500 titans at ave price of around 10k each that is 25 million of no refund $$$ likely already spent (16nm data halls etc) so it is a lot cheaper just to hire some law firm long term for even say $5 million with the instructions to keep it on appeal and not lose till the 'heat death of the universe' ....they'd still be in the clear and wealthy

[whisper]

Today I received the refund asked April 28.
Full refund +10%

The steps that I made .

1.1 Open a case at the Swedish police department for internet fraud     eta never

     Received after 3 month a letter that they are going to close the case , this come after discussions between kncminer lawyer and the police .
     Called the officer in charge of my case , it was changed 2 times , never could reach it (every time waited about 1h on phone  )
     I think all the case will have the same outcome

1.2 Open a case at ECC   eta never
    
    They did not help me because I`ve open a case at the police and alternate method was selected from my part (this is plain stupid )
    Response come after lots of emails in about one month .

1.3  Open a case at ARN  eta ~3.5-4 month
    They send 2 letters to knc about 1.5-2 month time in between
    The lawyer from knc responded at the second one (after the due date) that the purchase was made by me as a business and that I`m not a consumer, the current terms of
    sales ware added at the end of the email by the knc lawyer and also some stupid information about the product (ex: it needs a datacenter cooling it is getting very hot during
    operation , the power usage is high and it needs a dedicated power line  )
    Email to Arn was sent regarding the Distance sell low , and European low regarding unfair contracts terms , and also that during the purchase and registration process no  
    information was requested and no verification submitted in regard to a business to business purchase
    In the beginning of December Arm will take knc to court for my case but I received the refund  so  I`ll close the case tomorrow with Arn

Best
T


  

Ok here we go after your footsteps!

[raskul]

link for those who need it:

http://www.arn.se/English/English/

[cryptodevil]

Today I received the refund asked April 28.
Full refund +10%

+10% was that the default refund amount they were told to give you or were they just being nice? 

Do clarify, though, this must be for a different miner than the LIMITATION ON USE Titan scrypt miner?

Nicely done, by the way, congratulations for finally getting it properly resolved. I will make sure my friend's company is made aware of these developments, they are currently determined to hold KnC to account for misrepresenting the Titan's capabilities and shipping them out a product with a LIMITATION ON USE, even when they knew it had a LIMITATION ON USE and they had been instructed to cancel the order on the basis of KnC's eventual confirmation regarding its LIMITATION ON USE.

By the way, did you know that under Swedish law if you report the Titan as being faulty, you have to wait until you receive delivery of it prior to reporting it as faulty and, even then, the seller is entitled to attempt to repair the faulty product. Kinda means KnC get a free pass to dick everybody about, right?

But, here's the thing, the LIMITATION ON USE Titan they shipped out wasn't faulty, no, it works exactly as KnC knew it would work when they decided to ship 'em out quick-smart before the clock ran down on Q3. It runs as designed, with a LIMITATION ON USE that was previously undisclosed by KnC, who made no mention of this LIMITATION ON USE, when they were promoting it back in March and their staff were eagerly informing enquiring potential customers who were asking whether it would be able to mine on other coins than Litecoin and were told, in no uncertain terms, that it would be able to mine on any scrypt coin on whichever pool the customer chose to use.

Except it can't. Until they've finished making it, the product they actually advertised, the one that could be used on all scrypt coins whichever pool the customer wanted to use. Turns out KnC shipped out a different product, one that they knew they were shipping with major LIMITATION ON USE as part of its design. Your Titan is waiting for KnC to finish building it.

Steeeeeeeeeeerike THREE KNC!!!! You. Are. OUT!!!!!1!1!!!!!!11eleventy!!111!1!

[retro72]

Today I received the refund asked April 28.
Full refund +10%

The steps that I made .

1.1 Open a case at the Swedish police department for internet fraud     eta never

     Received after 3 month a letter that they are going to close the case , this come after discussions between kncminer lawyer and the police .
     Called the officer in charge of my case , it was changed 2 times , never could reach it (every time waited about 1h on phone  )
     I think all the case will have the same outcome

1.2 Open a case at ECC   eta never
    
    They did not help me because I`ve open a case at the police and alternate method was selected from my part (this is plain stupid )
    Response come after lots of emails in about one month .

1.3  Open a case at ARN  eta ~3.5-4 month
    They send 2 letters to knc about 1.5-2 month time in between
    The lawyer from knc responded at the second one (after the due date) that the purchase was made by me as a business and that I`m not a consumer, the current terms of
    sales ware added at the end of the email by the knc lawyer and also some stupid information about the product (ex: it needs a datacenter cooling it is getting very hot during
    operation , the power usage is high and it needs a dedicated power line  )
    Email to Arn was sent regarding the Distance sell low , and European low regarding unfair contracts terms , and also that during the purchase and registration process no  
    information was requested and no verification submitted in regard to a business to business purchase
    In the beginning of December Arm will take knc to court for my case but I received the refund  so  I`ll close the case tomorrow with Arn

Best
T


  

Was this for a Titan or Neptune?

[thorvald]

Hello

It was for Neptune batch one .

There are a lot of loop holes in eu legislation and swinish low .
If you go to court with them you have to have in mind that that will take additional money from your part and can go one some time.
Another way is to take a debt collection lawyer that  in Sweden is often very effective, since it is easy for the debt collection bureau to get information on the debtor’s assets.
That also has to go in court but only for refund request . (14 days for 2 notifications then about 50e to take to court + debt collator pay + percentage from the amount collected )

That was my next step after arn went to court .

I`ve contacted lawyers and debt collector but I didn`t had the money to go with them (they are all hungry for easy  money )
Also if your lawyer is not good you can lose and have to pay additional money to knc lawyer (for big amounts of cash over 24000 sek the amount you will pay increases )

[retro72]

It was for Neptune batch one .

Why were they fighting a batch 1 Neptune refund?

It seems if ARN thought you had a case and were willing to go to court, KNC's defence must have been pretty weak. I've filed a complaint with ARN and also have a Lawyer on the case for a Titan refund. So I'll let you know how it goes.

[RoadStress]

Today I received the refund asked April 28.
Full refund +10%
........
    Email to Arn was sent regarding the Distance sell low , and European low regarding unfair contracts terms , and also that during the purchase and registration process no  
    information was requested and no verification submitted in regard to a business to business purchase
    In the beginning of December Arm will take knc to court for my case but I received the refund  so  I`ll close the case tomorrow with Arn

AHA! Grats on the full refund. I said in the past that KnC can't get along with the b2b bullshit! I did! I did!

[mwizard]

Today I received the refund asked April 28.
Full refund +10%
........
    Email to Arn was sent regarding the Distance sell low , and European low regarding unfair contracts terms , and also that during the purchase and registration process no  
    information was requested and no verification submitted in regard to a business to business purchase
    In the beginning of December Arm will take knc to court for my case but I received the refund  so  I`ll close the case tomorrow with Arn

AHA! Grats on the full refund. I said in the past that KnC can't get along with the b2b bullshit! I did! I did!

Settle down folks.  Thorvald said he was after a refund on a Neptune Batch One. As far as I know Neptune Batch Zero and Batch One were always entitled to a refund based on KNC T&Cs.  His problem was a delay in payment.

The Titan terms of sale were very different.