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Author Topic: Ripple vs Bitcoin  (Read 677 times)
Ares
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April 16, 2013, 07:43:59 PM
 #1

If it allows near free transfer of fiat to anyone, anywhere, anytime, then doesn't that remove one of the primary advantages of bitcoin?

What gorunds would we have to sell merchants on bitcoin?

This seems to outweigh any benefit brought by ripple
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Ares
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April 17, 2013, 02:37:14 AM
 #2

bump?
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April 17, 2013, 02:49:28 AM
 #3

ripple is a bullshit bitcoin copycat (hardly a copy cat. Like they copied the source code and made the code worse). Totally centralized.


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Ares
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April 17, 2013, 03:00:27 AM
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ripple is a bullshit bitcoin copycat (hardly a copy cat. Like they copied the source code and made the code worse). Totally centralized.



I understand, but I keep seeing posts here saying it will complement bitcoin, even from non-affiliated members (*as far as I know, non-affiliated)


Considering the point made in my OP, I don't see how that would happen
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April 17, 2013, 04:09:49 AM
Last edit: April 17, 2013, 04:37:23 AM by Tonko
 #5


I understand, but I keep seeing posts here saying it will complement bitcoin, even from non-affiliated members (*as far as I know, non-affiliated)

Considering the point made in my OP, I don't see how that would happen

In theory you can send and receive Bitcoins without ever seeing Ripple, but still through Ripple network. Since there is no proof of work to hash the record of the transactions, it is potentially much faster and cheaper to facilitate transfers.

Note that I say potentially, because I don't know the details. But I know enough to say that Ripple ledger is definitely not like Bitcoin block chain and transaction fees are strictly for preventing somebody spamming the network. Nobody gets the transaction fees, they just discourage you from sending zillions of messages through the network.

It is currently centralized indeed, in particular in the sense that one for-profit corporation has made public some of the source code, with the promise that all of it will become open source, once they polish the details. But network itself is P2P so is not centralized in technical sense.

Clearly, if you invested a lot in mining hardware, possibly with a view to profit, or break even, from transaction charges one day, you cannot like it, it or anything that comes close to it.

Anyway, Alternate cryptocurrencies forum is a better place to ask about these things.
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April 17, 2013, 04:57:35 AM
 #6


I understand, but I keep seeing posts here saying it will complement bitcoin, even from non-affiliated members (*as far as I know, non-affiliated)

Considering the point made in my OP, I don't see how that would happen

In theory you can send and receive Bitcoins without ever seeing Ripple, but still through Ripple network. Since there is no proof of work to hash the record of the transactions, it is potentially much faster and cheaper to facilitate transfers.

Note that I say potentially, because I don't know the details. But I know enough to say that Ripple ledger is definitely not like Bitcoin block chain and transaction fees are strictly for preventing somebody spamming the network. Nobody gets the transaction fees, they just discourage you from sending zillions of messages through the network.

It is currently centralized indeed, in particular in the sense that one for-profit corporation has made public some of the source code, with the promise that all of it will become open source, once they polish the details. But network itself is P2P so is not centralized in technical sense.

Clearly, if you invested a lot in mining hardware, possibly with a view to profit, or break even, from transaction charges one day, you cannot like it, it or anything that comes close to it.

Anyway, Alternate cryptocurrencies forum is a better place to ask about these things.
Thank you for the response, though it doesn't quite answer my question.

With ripple, why would any business choose to use bitcoins if ripple gives them the same low-fee and no chargebacks.

Perhaps you're right and I should bring this to the alt subforum.
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April 17, 2013, 06:22:31 AM
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Because Ripple lets you send debt.

You can't send a 1 BTC through ripple. You can send a "user rEckWuf927y3fu9 promises to pay 1 BTC when you redeem this coupon" BTC through Ripple.

Ripple is closed source and centralized, and as it is debt based you are going to end up seeing your "money" and "bitcoins" disappear as the debtors default.

What happens when user rEckWuf doesn't honor the BTC debt he sent? Dominios collapse. People who have trusted people who have trusted people who have trusted [..] people who have trusted rEckWuf is out of their coins - this is because of their literally infinite "web of debt" system. There's a reason why WoT works with trust, not debt.

Even if you trust people you know in life, if they trust people who either trusted someone that defaults, or trusts someone that either trusts someone who defaults or trusts someone that either [..]

and here you can see a sufficient enough default will end up with all "USD", "EUR", "BTC" vanished into thin air. Seriously, it is a disaster waiting to happen.
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April 17, 2013, 06:41:27 AM
 #8

Even if you trust people you know in life, if they trust people who either trusted someone that defaults, or trusts someone that either trusts someone who defaults or trusts someone that either [..]
This is completely wrong.

If you owe money on a mortgage do you think they give a shit if your friend didn't pay back money you lent them? Do they give a shit if you lost your job. No you still owe the debt. If A owes B; and B owes C; and A refuses to pay that's B's fault. C doesn't care, B still owes them. If B welches on their debt to C then B is an asshole and no one will trust him anymore. In particular if I'm C and I know B in "real life" then I'll make their life difficult.

So thanks for telling everyone that you won't pay your debts if someone ever defaults on a debt to you. I hope everyone realizes that means they can't trust you.

IMO, Ripple questions are best asked (and answered) on the Ripple forum and/or StackExchange
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April 17, 2013, 06:48:32 AM
 #9

If you want to trade between BTC and fiat currencies, then Ripple will likely be the best place to do it.

ROI is not a verb, the term you're looking for is 'to break even'.
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April 17, 2013, 07:02:36 AM
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Even if you trust people you know in life, if they trust people who either trusted someone that defaults, or trusts someone that either trusts someone who defaults or trusts someone that either [..]
This is completely wrong.

If you owe money on a mortgage do you think they give a shit if your friend didn't pay back money you lent them? Do they give a shit if you lost your job. No you still owe the debt. If A owes B; and B owes C; and A refuses to pay that's B's fault. C doesn't care, B still owes them. If B welches on their debt to C then B is an asshole and no one will trust him anymore. In particular if I'm C and I know B in "real life" then I'll make their life difficult.

So thanks for telling everyone that you won't pay your debts if someone ever defaults on a debt to you. I hope everyone realizes that means they can't trust you.
What you are saying is wrong. Especially the "completely wrong" part.

If you have 95% of your money stored in a bank, and the bank (gateway) defaults [because a lot of people they loaned to defaults], are you going to be able to pay your debt to your friend with money you don't have? And if your friend can't get any money from his web of debt, how are they going to pay back their creditors? They won't, and the whole web of debt system collapses with a enough big default.

It's not about "would someone pay back if someone defaults on them", it is about could.

If EVERYONE defaults on me - my bank, my assets, my employer, and the bitcoin network defaults on me, where the fuck do you think I'm going to pay out? This isn't going to happen in real life, because unlike ripple my bitcoin exists in the blockchain instead of in the form of interest free debt that is absolutely always worth less than face value, and my banks are insured by Australia.
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