Isn't it time for a new service in place of Coinbase/Circle in another country?

[Pursuer]

With IRS coming down on Coinbase and asking them for their customers history, and now Circle changing their service and (apparently) no longer offering any buy or sell services for bitcoin, and also all other restrictions that US has and will keep on implementing on anything money related; don't you think it is time to see a new service based on another country?

maybe a Coinbase like service located in Switzerland would be nice in my opinion.

[Jet Cash]

You could always run a full or pruned node.

[Pursuer]

You could always run a full or pruned node.

let me explain what a type of service I have in mind:
"a newbie friendly platform that offers many features at the same time is very simple to use". these features include but not restricted to:

• a bitcoin wallet which newbies can keep their coins and don't have to know anything about bitcoin to be able to use it such as making a transaction, signing it and setting fees,...
• a simple platform that allows anyone to easily purchase and also sell bitcoin at any time easy and fast with lots of option so a new member who again has no idea about bitcoin can easily sign up and purchase bitcoin like he is ordering stuff from internet.
• located in a country like Switzerland which is "better" in privacy and security than any other place specially US.

[Jet Cash]

It's probably an act of heresy to say this, but the real explosive growth in Bitcoin acceptance would come if there was no privacy. It's been constantly dogged by reports of illegal and secret activities, and it would be good if it could move on from that. Let some other cryptocurrency pick up the "dark web" deals, and let Bitcoin become the respectable senior payment service that it is becoming.

[bitkilo]

There is a massive space open for a new company to come onto the scene but they will have to run their operations differently than Coinbase or the IRS will just come after them for all customers records.

If there is one lesson to learn from the Coinbase/IRS case its that if you don't want your private information shared then use bitcoin the way it was designed to be used. Acquiring bitcoins then becomes your main problem but a big push in demand for bitcoin ATM's would fix that.

[Xester]

Well the IRS  steps taken are merely to add security feature I guess by keeping customer records. There are too many hackers and scammers in the bitcoin industry I guess its time that this steps be taken. In our country we have coins.ph wherein we cannot convert bitcoin to cash without any valid ids and other documents. Bitcoin companies are now thinking like banks due to massive reports of being victimized by scams and hackers.

As of Circle, it is a loss to the industry but hopefully there will be no negative impacts on the present price of bitcoin.

In totality, we dont have to worry, there are many who are already thinking negative and in panic right now due to Circle leaving bitcoin behind. But bitcoin has a bright future, hopefully.

[bitkilo]

Well the IRS  steps taken are merely to add security feature I guess by keeping customer records. There are too many hackers and scammers in the bitcoin industry I guess its time that this steps be taken. In our country we have coins.ph wherein we cannot convert bitcoin to cash without any valid ids and other documents. Bitcoin companies are now thinking like banks due to massive reports of being victimized by scams and hackers.

As of Circle, it is a loss to the industry but hopefully there will be no negative impacts on the present price of bitcoin.

In totality, we dont have to worry, there are many who are already thinking negative and in panic right now due to Circle leaving bitcoin behind. But bitcoin has a bright future, hopefully.

With coins.ph do they require you to provide private information and ID's directly to them or can you just link a bank account and from there you can transfer fiat and buy bitcoins?

[mobnepal]

US based companies are always subjected to periodic check of all the transaction and in case of bitcoin related company US government are more interested than anything else due to anonymity in bitcoin transaction and possible tax invasion. I think the main reason for most of the big tech companies to be centered inside US is that there are lots of venture capitalist interested to invest in startups, its good place for start up companies and also easy to get tech experts on need.

Talking about Switzerland i don't have idea about how hard it is to establish a company and collect funds for start ups. Other countries may also have tight regulation but i don't think that will be tighter than US have.

EDIT: Using any of the centralized web wallet or exchange platform is always bad for privacy so if you like to remain anonymous and keep your bitcoin related transaction anonymous better not to use any of them, even if they are not based on US.

[chesatochi]

I think they should have some entrepreneurs who already thinking outside of the box in the creation of new services. Want people want is to buy bitcoins easily without the need to provide 1 million documents in order to acquire them.

I don't know where the best place to create a company like Coinbase outside of United Stated.

[Labumi]

Why are you worried about it..?? . This will not be a bad thing if indeed there are still many users of the bitcoin active, because will not be lost or destroyed something as long as there is still a loyal users use it. Although there are many sites that leave bitcoin, however if there is still a lot of people using bitcoin growth bitcoin will still be maintained and there is a possibility it is a way to foster a new site for a much more complete in order to meet all the needs that can be used in the bitcoin

[davis196]

With IRS coming down on Coinbase and asking them for their customers history, and now Circle changing their service and (apparently) no longer offering any buy or sell services for bitcoin, and also all other restrictions that US has and will keep on implementing on anything money related; don't you think it is time to see a new service based on another country?

maybe a Coinbase like service located in Switzerland would be nice in my opinion.

US regulations really damage bitcoin and the bitcoin community.

Which country do you suggest?

Perhaps some offshore island...

[Patatas]

With IRS coming down on Coinbase and asking them for their customers history, and now Circle changing their service and (apparently) no longer offering any buy or sell services for bitcoin, and also all other restrictions that US has and will keep on implementing on anything money related; don't you think it is time to see a new service based on another country?

For the exchange to provide services in other country,it must either not allow the access to countries whose regulations they don't comply with or make sure they don't accept accounts from that particular location (ip based checking etc).Or they can simply follow the regulations made by the IRS and continue doing business there.I think it's time to give up on the exchanges,peer to peer platforms hosted no commercially inside the forums is a much better option.Not to mention but every country has similar exchanges which run legally and live under the shade of governmental norms.

maybe a Coinbase like service located in Switzerland would be nice in my opinion.

To serve US customers they must comply with the us laws that is they must be able to provide logs on demand.

[thejaytiesto]

It's probably an act of heresy to say this, but the real explosive growth in Bitcoin acceptance would come if there was no privacy. It's been constantly dogged by reports of illegal and secret activities, and it would be good if it could move on from that. Let some other cryptocurrency pick up the "dark web" deals, and let Bitcoin become the respectable senior payment service that it is becoming.

But what's the point if there's no privacy? People will continue using Paypal etc. The main point of Bitcoin is that it is a system that works in the "void" outside of any government or permission. If you take this away, you take it's power away and it becomes some stupid fiat token, that's all.

[Cereberus]

Switzerland is the best option. The reason I don't want to say an offshore island like, Virgin Island ,Belize or Panama where there are more businesses registered than persons living there is because there the scams can be pulled off easily.

This is a perfect opportunity for such company to come on board and take over Coinbase and Circle place.

[bitkilo]

It's probably an act of heresy to say this, but the real explosive growth in Bitcoin acceptance would come if there was no privacy. It's been constantly dogged by reports of illegal and secret activities, and it would be good if it could move on from that. Let some other cryptocurrency pick up the "dark web" deals, and let Bitcoin become the respectable senior payment service that it is becoming.

But what's the point if there's no privacy? People will continue using Paypal etc. The main point of Bitcoin is that it is a system that works in the "void" outside of any government or permission. If you take this away, you take it's power away and it becomes some stupid fiat token, that's all.

Exactly, but unfortunately the privacy nature of bitcoin seems to get lost on some of the newer members ambitions of taking it mainstream.

[European Central Bank]

it doesn't matter where a company is based, if they're dealing with american customers then they're gonna get problems. let's get all american bitcoiners to renounce their citizenship then we might be ready to go somewhere.

[GreenLighter]

The blanket request is concerning

[chennan]

Idk if this is what you are talking about, but in terms of avoiding centralized exchanges in the US due to the IRS stuff going, you could just use bitsquare.io ... I know it's not exactly the best "noob friendly" exchange place to buy bitcoins, but it's definitely an option for people to avoid places like circle and coinbase.

Right now the interface and liquidity isn't exactly the best... that's why I still am always tempted to use a site like localbitcoins to buy P2P.

[RocketSingh]

maybe a Coinbase like service located in Switzerland would be nice in my opinion.

Then they wont be able to serve US customers.

[OROBTC]

maybe a Coinbase like service located in Switzerland would be nice in my opinion.

Then they wont be able to serve US customers.

SOMEONE is going to be able to solve that problem.  Some company will find the key to offer BTC in a very quiet way, probably located outside the USA, yet be resistant to investigation.  And be able to get the trust of customers.  And then they will make a ton of money!

bitmixer.io has such trust, and they seem to be resistant to investigation...

* * *  

Or perhaps offering BTC by credit card via the Darknet?

[DiCE1904]

Idk if this is what you are talking about, but in terms of avoiding centralized exchanges in the US due to the IRS stuff going, you could just use bitsquare.io ... I know it's not exactly the best "noob friendly" exchange place to buy bitcoins, but it's definitely an option for people to avoid places like circle and coinbase.

Right now the interface and liquidity isn't exactly the best... that's why I still am always tempted to use a site like localbitcoins to buy P2P.

This, just need more people to spread the word to US users

[European Central Bank]

bitsquare looks ok for buyers in theory. it sounds scary for sellers. no matter where you are there usually seems to be a way to get bank transfers reversed or claimed to be fraudulent. there's no way i'd chance it.

[npredtorch]

Well the IRS  steps taken are merely to add security feature I guess by keeping customer records. There are too many hackers and scammers in the bitcoin industry I guess its time that this steps be taken. In our country we have coins.ph wherein we cannot convert bitcoin to cash without any valid ids and other documents. Bitcoin companies are now thinking like banks due to massive reports of being victimized by scams and hackers.

As of Circle, it is a loss to the industry but hopefully there will be no negative impacts on the present price of bitcoin.

In totality, we dont have to worry, there are many who are already thinking negative and in panic right now due to Circle leaving bitcoin behind. But bitcoin has a bright future, hopefully.

With coins.ph do they require you to provide private information and ID's directly to them or can you just link a bank account and from there you can transfer fiat and buy bitcoins?

Looks like Xester have missed to reply on your post. So..

Yes! they require users to provide ID's, they even do live selfies and have you interviewed on a private video call. Coins.ph also filter transactions from gambling sites and suspend accounts that have prove to have that transactions. They just put the highest security againts scams and illegal activity.

[Junko]

Competition is never a bad thing so yes, new services with more/better features. In any country, doesn't matter. The IRS is going to get their cut from US citizens regardless.

[chennan]

bitsquare looks ok for buyers in theory. it sounds scary for sellers. no matter where you are there usually seems to be a way to get bank transfers reversed or claimed to be fraudulent. there's no way i'd chance it.

I've always felt like it would be a good idea for bitsquare to have a way for people to send USD to other sellers through Cash Deposits.... that's the main reason why I still use localbitcoins.  Quick and easy to verify, I love it.

[DiCE1904]

bitsquare looks ok for buyers in theory. it sounds scary for sellers. no matter where you are there usually seems to be a way to get bank transfers reversed or claimed to be fraudulent. there's no way i'd chance it.

I've always felt like it would be a good idea for bitsquare to have a way for people to send USD to other sellers through Cash Deposits.... that's the main reason why I still use localbitcoins.  Quick and easy to verify, I love it.

[Yakamoto]

With IRS coming down on Coinbase and asking them for their customers history, and now Circle changing their service and (apparently) no longer offering any buy or sell services for bitcoin, and also all other restrictions that US has and will keep on implementing on anything money related; don't you think it is time to see a new service based on another country?

maybe a Coinbase like service located in Switzerland would be nice in my opinion.

Chances are something like that is going to spring up fairly soon if there isn't anyone there to fill the void within the next couple of weeks, but for Coinbase chances are people are just going to switch over to Blockchain or something, so the market shares of competing wallets (and in this case specifically, Blockchain.info) will grow considerably.

[pooya87]

With IRS coming down on Coinbase and asking them for their customers history, and now Circle changing their service and (apparently) no longer offering any buy or sell services for bitcoin, and also all other restrictions that US has and will keep on implementing on anything money related; don't you think it is time to see a new service based on another country?

maybe a Coinbase like service located in Switzerland would be nice in my opinion.

Chances are something like that is going to spring up fairly soon if there isn't anyone there to fill the void within the next couple of weeks, but for Coinbase chances are people are just going to switch over to Blockchain or something, so the market shares of competing wallets (and in this case specifically, Blockchain.info) will grow considerably.

if i am not mistaken blockchain.info recently added a new feature that allows people to purchase bitcoin through their site and transfer it to their wallet on the site.

edit: i found it (it is only for UK): https://blog.blockchain.com/2016/11/14/its-here-buy-bitcoin-from-your-blockchain-wallet-in-4-simple-secure-steps/

[Invulner]

There is already, check out Coinjar. It is located in England and the operators are Australians, I think. Offers a whole lot more service compared to Coinbase even without any verification on your part.

However they are still not 100% safe because they are a centralised organisation and you are not in control of your own coins.

[michkima]

Maybe we need some kind of decentralized market or bitcoin service than have another company in any country. Since bitcoin is decentralized maybe the buy and sell market should also be decentralized. I just don't know how this will happen if there would be no entity checking on the transactions and how we as users will check every person's trustworthiness.

[QuestionAuthority]

That's why people should have worked to keep Tradehill and CryptoXchange open. I don't think people like Jered Kenna would have put up with that crap. But we let them fail because we wouldn't pay enough fees or use their service enough to keep them open. There's an old saying about being cheap, "when you'll only pay ten cents for something chances are what you buy won't be worth a dime".

[OROBTC]

That's why people should have worked to keep Tradehill and CryptoXchange open. I don't think people like Jered Kenna would have put up with that crap. But we let them fail because we wouldn't pay enough fees or use their service enough to keep them open. There's an old saying about being cheap, "when you'll only pay ten cents for something chances are what you buy won't be worth a dime".

I never had heard of those guys.  If their service was good (and private) I agree, there should be (have been) a good market for their services.  Even if they were (are) a bit expensive.

I don't really care if I have to pay BTC0.0001 or raise it a tiny bit to blockchain.info's suggested higher amount (for quicker estimated confirmation time) to BTC0.0002...  The transaction is what is important to me, I don't care about paying another US 6 cents...

Your comment is more-or-less the very old common sense "you get what you pay for".  We have seen that in the products (auto parts) we buy from Korea, Japan and China.  Big differences in price vs. quality.

[Lionidas]

With IRS coming down on Coinbase and asking them for their customers history, and now Circle changing their service and (apparently) no longer offering any buy or sell services for bitcoin, and also all other restrictions that US has and will keep on implementing on anything money related; don't you think it is time to see a new service based on another country?

maybe a Coinbase like service located in Switzerland would be nice in my opinion.

Sounds good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDcNkggCXRQ

Just for this reason is why it should be in a country such as Switzerland where they have the benefit of being a tax haven already installed. The perfect scenario for running this kind of business that deals with a global currency such as bitcoin has become.

[bitbunnny]

maybe a Coinbase like service located in Switzerland would be nice in my opinion.

Then they wont be able to serve US customers.

Why not? Or the only US based services could serve the US customers? I wanted to say that maybe some country within EU could be the solution but actualy Switzerland is excellent choice because it's Bitcoin friendly country and not so restricted like some other countries within EU. But I don't know if there is interest there to start such service.

[OROBTC]

With IRS coming down on Coinbase and asking them for their customers history, and now Circle changing their service and (apparently) no longer offering any buy or sell services for bitcoin, and also all other restrictions that US has and will keep on implementing on anything money related; don't you think it is time to see a new service based on another country?

maybe a Coinbase like service located in Switzerland would be nice in my opinion.

Sounds good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDcNkggCXRQ

Just for this reason is why it should be in a country such as Switzerland where they have the benefit of being a tax haven already installed. The perfect scenario for running this kind of business that deals with a global currency such as bitcoin has become.

I do not know the very latest, Lionidas, but IIUC Switzerland already has rather high taxes and is pretty actively cooperating with American and European (esp. German & French) tax authorities to share information.  Tax Haven is now a little too benevolent and obsolete a term for Switzerland if my limited information is accurate.

I do understand that it is a decentralized country, and there may be various opportunities (like for Bitcoin) available there that would be of interest.  And that privacy is still considered important there.


Swiss members (and those knowledgeable of current Swiss laws re finance) are very welcome to comment!

[error08]

With IRS coming down on Coinbase and asking them for their customers history, and now Circle changing their service and (apparently) no longer offering any buy or sell services for bitcoin, and also all other restrictions that US has and will keep on implementing on anything money related; don't you think it is time to see a new service based on another country?

maybe a Coinbase like service located in Switzerland would be nice in my opinion.

That would be good to move away from US with all of their tight regulations regarding to the taxation.
If Switzerland or Swiss is suitable for the new base why not, but it's not easy to do as easy to say of course.
We just hope that coinbase will be fine with these mess around IRS.

[fiscorcle]

With IRS coming down on Coinbase and asking them for their customers history, and now Circle changing their service and (apparently) no longer offering any buy or sell services for bitcoin, and also all other restrictions that US has and will keep on implementing on anything money related; don't you think it is time to see a new service based on another country?

maybe a Coinbase like service located in Switzerland would be nice in my opinion.

That would be good to move away from US with all of their tight regulations regarding to the taxation.
If Switzerland or Swiss is suitable for the new base why not, but it's not easy to do as easy to say of course.
We just hope that coinbase will be fine with these mess around IRS.

If they are in such hot water right now with US tax laws and having to give the IRS their customer's information,
then why don't they just move their entire operation to a country with lax tax laws such as Switzerland?

[iram3130]

With IRS coming down on Coinbase and asking them for their customers history, and now Circle changing their service and (apparently) no longer offering any buy or sell services for bitcoin, and also all other restrictions that US has and will keep on implementing on anything money related; don't you think it is time to see a new service based on another country?

maybe a Coinbase like service located in Switzerland would be nice in my opinion.

That would be good to move away from US with all of their tight regulations regarding to the taxation.
If Switzerland or Swiss is suitable for the new base why not, but it's not easy to do as easy to say of course.
We just hope that coinbase will be fine with these mess around IRS.

Technically Switzerland is a lot better than USA in many terms of taxation and other things. But it won't be easy to move it like that from coinbase. I guess someone else can start something like this coz it is much needed for the bitcoin society.  

[ikydesu]

With IRS coming down on Coinbase and asking them for their customers history, and now Circle changing their service and (apparently) no longer offering any buy or sell services for bitcoin, and also all other restrictions that US has and will keep on implementing on anything money related; don't you think it is time to see a new service based on another country?

maybe a Coinbase like service located in Switzerland would be nice in my opinion.

I prefer located in Australia https://news.bitcoin.com/worlds-top-10-bitcoin-friendly-countries/

bitsquare looks ok for buyers in theory. it sounds scary for sellers. no matter where you are there usually seems to be a way to get bank transfers reversed or claimed to be fraudulent. there's no way i'd chance it.

Bitsquare looks like not really popular enough here, but they have really good features. P2P fiat-bitcoin: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=647457

[QuestionAuthority]

With IRS coming down on Coinbase and asking them for their customers history, and now Circle changing their service and (apparently) no longer offering any buy or sell services for bitcoin, and also all other restrictions that US has and will keep on implementing on anything money related; don't you think it is time to see a new service based on another country?

maybe a Coinbase like service located in Switzerland would be nice in my opinion.

Sounds good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDcNkggCXRQ

Just for this reason is why it should be in a country such as Switzerland where they have the benefit of being a tax haven already installed. The perfect scenario for running this kind of business that deals with a global currency such as bitcoin has become.

I do not know the very latest, Lionidas, but IIUC Switzerland already has rather high taxes and is pretty actively cooperating with American and European (esp. German & French) tax authorities to share information.  Tax Haven is now a little too benevolent and obsolete a term for Switzerland if my limited information is accurate.

I do understand that it is a decentralized country, and there may be various opportunities (like for Bitcoin) available there that would be of interest.  And that privacy is still considered important there.


Swiss members (and those knowledgeable of current Swiss laws re finance) are very welcome to comment!

You're right. The Swiss will capture you for the murricans and extradite you for money laundering. If you really want to service murrican customers in a place with a good infrastructure (internet providers, etc.) you want to have it in Panama. They have no extradition treaty with murrica for "financial crimes" only for "capital crimes" (murder, rape etc.).