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Author Topic: Paper bitcoins (bitnotes). Is it worth it?  (Read 3538 times)
rajasumi3
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December 26, 2016, 06:42:50 AM
 #101

No i dont think that paper bitcoins is even worth it .bitcoins main motive is to make it digital and decentralized .with paper bitcoins into existence there will be involvement of government and parties which is not accepteble at all.
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December 26, 2016, 06:46:12 AM
 #102

No i dont think that paper bitcoins is even worth it .bitcoins main motive is to make it digital and decentralized .with paper bitcoins into existence there will be involvement of government and parties which is not accepteble at all.
that's true. paper money can't just distributed without the agreement of the government even it's bitcoin if government don't agree with its existence then they will take them all from their people and most likely to be banned and then lost its value. bitcoin was created to be digital currency and that's the only thing bitcoin need to focus



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usefrees
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December 29, 2016, 12:02:04 PM
 #103

No i dont think that paper bitcoins is even worth it .bitcoins main motive is to make it digital and decentralized .with paper bitcoins into existence there will be involvement of government and parties which is not accepteble at all.
that's true. paper money can't just distributed without the agreement of the government even it's bitcoin if government don't agree with its existence then they will take them all from their people and most likely to be banned and then lost its value. bitcoin was created to be digital currency and that's the only thing bitcoin need to focus

The government can not prohibit release Bitcoin in any form. If it is produced in digital form and this government can not influence, and then release it in paper form will not prevent
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December 29, 2016, 12:28:26 PM
 #104

No i dont think that paper bitcoins is even worth it .bitcoins main motive is to make it digital and decentralized .with paper bitcoins into existence there will be involvement of government and parties which is not accepteble at all.
that's true. paper money can't just distributed without the agreement of the government even it's bitcoin if government don't agree with its existence then they will take them all from their people and most likely to be banned and then lost its value. bitcoin was created to be digital currency and that's the only thing bitcoin need to focus

The government can not prohibit release Bitcoin in any form. If it is produced in digital form and this government can not influence, and then release it in paper form will not prevent

It is just a matter of time

Till Bitcoin sinks into oblivion on its own or governments take measures against it if it doesn't. Right now, it is too insignificant, and issuing paper bitcoins (say, by web wallets) may not make any sense since there is no demand for them. But if Bitcoin gets universal adoption and acceptance, issuing bitnotes might make sense after all, just as it might make sense for governments to begin fighting with bitcoins in earnest, including but not limited to banning the issuance of these Bitcoin bearer notes

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Xester
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December 29, 2016, 01:58:43 PM
 #105

No i dont think that paper bitcoins is even worth it .bitcoins main motive is to make it digital and decentralized .with paper bitcoins into existence there will be involvement of government and parties which is not accepteble at all.
that's true. paper money can't just distributed without the agreement of the government even it's bitcoin if government don't agree with its existence then they will take them all from their people and most likely to be banned and then lost its value. bitcoin was created to be digital currency and that's the only thing bitcoin need to focus

The government can not prohibit release Bitcoin in any form. If it is produced in digital form and this government can not influence, and then release it in paper form will not prevent

It is just a matter of time

Till Bitcoin sinks into oblivion on its own or governments take measures against it if it doesn't. Right now, it is too insignificant, and issuing paper bitcoins (say, by web wallets) may not make any sense since there is no demand for them. But if Bitcoin gets universal adoption and acceptance, issuing bitnotes might make sense after all, just as it might make sense for governments to begin fighting with bitcoins in earnest, including but not limited to banning the issuance of these Bitcoin bearer notes

That will possibly happen if bitcoin is independent from dollars. If bitcoin is already declared the official legal tender in the world then a bitnote is needed so it can be used even in the farthest areas of the earth where there is civilization but cannot be reached by internet. There are many poor people in the world that doesnt know what internet is and doesnt have the luxury of having accessories or any electronic devices and can only eat once a day and the only way for bitcoin to reach them is through bitnotes.
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December 29, 2016, 02:12:16 PM
 #106

The government can not prohibit release Bitcoin in any form. If it is produced in digital form and this government can not influence, and then release it in paper form will not prevent

It is just a matter of time

Till Bitcoin sinks into oblivion on its own or governments take measures against it if it doesn't. Right now, it is too insignificant, and issuing paper bitcoins (say, by web wallets) may not make any sense since there is no demand for them. But if Bitcoin gets universal adoption and acceptance, issuing bitnotes might make sense after all, just as it might make sense for governments to begin fighting with bitcoins in earnest, including but not limited to banning the issuance of these Bitcoin bearer notes

That will possibly happen if bitcoin is independent from dollars. If bitcoin is already declared the official legal tender in the world then a bitnote is needed so it can be used even in the farthest areas of the earth where there is civilization but cannot be reached by internet. There are many poor people in the world that doesnt know what internet is and doesnt have the luxury of having accessories or any electronic devices and can only eat once a day and the only way for bitcoin to reach them is through bitnotes.

That would require adoption rates not comparable with what we have today. I don't think that Bitcoin will ever become a world-wide legal tender, so that you could pay, say, taxes either in your local currency or Bitcoin, but it may be just me and I may be wrong after all. But that's not my point. There are a few small countries that are using the US dollar as legal tender (e.g. Panama, Honduras, Zimbabwe of Zimbabwean dollars' fame), and they or similar countries might eventually accept Bitcoin as legal tender on par with other currencies...

But as I said, Bitcoin is not there yet in terms of adoption and expansion

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December 29, 2016, 08:57:26 PM
 #107

No i dont think that paper bitcoins is even worth it .bitcoins main motive is to make it digital and decentralized .with paper bitcoins into existence there will be involvement of government and parties which is not accepteble at all.
yes i am also not in favour of paper bitcoin. i think paper bitcoin will decrease the originality of bitcoin. bitcoin is built as crypto currency and it should remain as crypto currency and no need to change it into paper currency.
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December 29, 2016, 11:37:00 PM
 #108

It is an established fact that bitcoins aren't very useful for offline transactions (even if you could use, for example, OpenDime devices for making such transactions). If Bitcoin banks are allowed, they would most certainly start issuing Bitcoin certificates (let's call them paper bitcoins), like many banks did in the 19th century with gold. These certificates could easily serve as paper money of sorts and thus solve the issue with offline transactions. The main problem with this approach is that banks might start (and most likely will) issue more paper bitcoins than the amount of real bitcoins in their wallet. So this raises two questions. Namely, if it is possible to prevent Bitcoin banks from issuing paper bitcoins altogether once they get allowed and start popping up here and there, and if there is a way to make these banks to limit the amount of paper bitcoins so it would match the amount of real bitcoins they have...

I think we might eventually have to face these issues, especially if Bitcoin gets more traction in the future

It's an interesting idea, since it would allow anonymity.  It would take transactions off the blockchain, onto a non-recorded "sidechain".

The bank has to make money to survive.  It wouldn't collect transaction fees, so what would be the source of revenue?  Would a bitcoin bank be able to create BTC (i.e. issue loans in BTC) similar to fiat banks?  If so, the value of the bitnotes would not be fixed precisely to the price of BTC, but would include a risk discount based on the perceived riskiness of the loan portfolio unless there were backing by a third party such as the government.  This was the case with private banks issuing gold certificates.

But do BTC advocates really want to recreate a fiat monetary system, just denominated in BTC?  It defeats the purpose of BTC...   
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December 30, 2016, 06:55:31 AM
 #109

It is an established fact that bitcoins aren't very useful for offline transactions (even if you could use, for example, OpenDime devices for making such transactions). If Bitcoin banks are allowed, they would most certainly start issuing Bitcoin certificates (let's call them paper bitcoins), like many banks did in the 19th century with gold. These certificates could easily serve as paper money of sorts and thus solve the issue with offline transactions. The main problem with this approach is that banks might start (and most likely will) issue more paper bitcoins than the amount of real bitcoins in their wallet. So this raises two questions. Namely, if it is possible to prevent Bitcoin banks from issuing paper bitcoins altogether once they get allowed and start popping up here and there, and if there is a way to make these banks to limit the amount of paper bitcoins so it would match the amount of real bitcoins they have...

I think we might eventually have to face these issues, especially if Bitcoin gets more traction in the future

Interesting idea but I think it would be more trouble than good in this situation.

First banks or bitcoin bank would do the same as they do, give what you dont have as you said and then what, they would give more then they have. They need to have some good back or money reserve for this to come reality.

OK some of the transactions fee could be used for financing but it is nothing compared to how much they have given over the odds ratio.



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December 30, 2016, 08:26:00 AM
Last edit: December 30, 2016, 11:20:50 AM by deisik
 #110

It is an established fact that bitcoins aren't very useful for offline transactions (even if you could use, for example, OpenDime devices for making such transactions). If Bitcoin banks are allowed, they would most certainly start issuing Bitcoin certificates (let's call them paper bitcoins), like many banks did in the 19th century with gold. These certificates could easily serve as paper money of sorts and thus solve the issue with offline transactions. The main problem with this approach is that banks might start (and most likely will) issue more paper bitcoins than the amount of real bitcoins in their wallet. So this raises two questions. Namely, if it is possible to prevent Bitcoin banks from issuing paper bitcoins altogether once they get allowed and start popping up here and there, and if there is a way to make these banks to limit the amount of paper bitcoins so it would match the amount of real bitcoins they have...

I think we might eventually have to face these issues, especially if Bitcoin gets more traction in the future

It's an interesting idea, since it would allow anonymity.  It would take transactions off the blockchain, onto a non-recorded "sidechain".

The bank has to make money to survive.  It wouldn't collect transaction fees, so what would be the source of revenue?  Would a bitcoin bank be able to create BTC (i.e. issue loans in BTC) similar to fiat banks?  If so, the value of the bitnotes would not be fixed precisely to the price of BTC, but would include a risk discount based on the perceived riskiness of the loan portfolio unless there were backing by a third party such as the government.  This was the case with private banks issuing gold certificates.

But do BTC advocates really want to recreate a fiat monetary system, just denominated in BTC?  It defeats the purpose of BTC...   

Issuing loans is not equal to creating new bitcoins as long as loans match deposits, at least as far as I can see. That's how banks are earning money in general (through the difference between deposit and loan interest rates). Indeed, to earn more banks would be interested in loaning more too, likely creating bitcoins out of thin air (just like banks did with gold certificates which were not fully covered by gold kept in their vaults). But as I said above, Bitcoin banks would be interested in making this system transparent as well as providing a mechanism that would restrict them from doing that...

Otherwise, people just won't trust such banks

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December 30, 2016, 05:19:57 PM
 #111

No i dont think that paper bitcoins is even worth it .bitcoins main motive is to make it digital and decentralized .with paper bitcoins into existence there will be involvement of government and parties which is not accepteble at all.
yes i am also not in favour of paper bitcoin. i think paper bitcoin will decrease the originality of bitcoin. bitcoin is built as crypto currency and it should remain as crypto currency and no need to change it into paper currency.
Bitcoin has been created based on the internet and it has been always related to it and it should stay that way forever, making bitcoin as paper money is not a good thing, at least not for the current time, it seems so uncomfortable for people to go around holding 1 btc in their hand which means 1000$ in their pocket, that is why people invented credit cards.
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December 30, 2016, 05:52:54 PM
 #112

No i dont think that paper bitcoins is even worth it .bitcoins main motive is to make it digital and decentralized .with paper bitcoins into existence there will be involvement of government and parties which is not accepteble at all.
yes i am also not in favour of paper bitcoin. i think paper bitcoin will decrease the originality of bitcoin. bitcoin is built as crypto currency and it should remain as crypto currency and no need to change it into paper currency.
Bitcoin has been created based on the internet and it has been always related to it and it should stay that way forever, making bitcoin as paper money is not a good thing, at least not for the current time, it seems so uncomfortable for people to go around holding 1 btc in their hand which means 1000$ in their pocket, that is why people invented credit cards.

I have a minor correction, not credit cards but payment cards

Since not all payment cards are credit cards. Personally, I have a dozen payment cards (actively using only one, though), and none of them is a credit card. Regarding the denominations of paper bitcoins, I think bigger ones would actually be quite popular given that many governments are going to retire their biggest denominations (e.g. 500 Euro bill). You would most certainly put a 1 bitcoin dollar in a safe, not in your pocket. And these high denomination bitnotes can be used to pay for rather expensive items like houses by ordinary people and yachts by whales

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December 30, 2016, 07:40:35 PM
 #113

No i dont think that paper bitcoins is even worth it .bitcoins main motive is to make it digital and decentralized .with paper bitcoins into existence there will be involvement of government and parties which is not accepteble at all.
yes i am also not in favour of paper bitcoin. i think paper bitcoin will decrease the originality of bitcoin. bitcoin is built as crypto currency and it should remain as crypto currency and no need to change it into paper currency.
Bitcoin has been created based on the internet and it has been always related to it and it should stay that way forever, making bitcoin as paper money is not a good thing, at least not for the current time, it seems so uncomfortable for people to go around holding 1 btc in their hand which means 1000$ in their pocket, that is why people invented credit cards.
the real aim of bitcoin is to introduce a decentralize currency in the world having same value. it is to be use through internet as digital currency therefore it will not be a good idea to use bitcoin as paper money.
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