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Author Topic: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!  (Read 38167 times)
naitwit
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April 09, 2013, 01:27:57 PM
 #1

I have a serious problem with this site.

They have locked in my coins and apparently others dont get their SEPA payments.

I would strongly suggest you stay away from that place until I have sorted this out.

Admin have answered only after 5 days, and promised to fix, BUT, Nothing happens and no answer.

No answer at ANY address!

This is serious and I welcome any help.
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naphto
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April 09, 2013, 01:29:57 PM
 #2

t4i
naitwit
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April 09, 2013, 01:32:55 PM
 #3

care to explain what that mean?
Garath
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April 09, 2013, 01:53:49 PM
 #4

They have locked in my coins and apparently others dont get their SEPA payments.

I have the same problem : standard SEPA withdrawal has been asked on April 1st (no it is not a joke).
Still nothing asof today, 7 days later, and no answer from the admin.  Sad

I could understand delays, but only if this was accompanied by proper communication.
I hope the exchange will continue to provide a good QoS, and that the EUR they are holding for me are not going to be used for "long-term vacations" in the Caymans.
So far, I recognize that the trading facility has been of good quality  Smiley
naitwit
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April 09, 2013, 02:00:02 PM
 #5

I Would strongly advice anyone to avoid BTC24 UNTIL this is sorted out. Missing money is serious.
fydel
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April 09, 2013, 02:03:34 PM
 #6

I hope these problems are just some growing pains. The service was very good since I started using it last year. If I had problems they all worked out in a good way. And TAiS46 (the owner) was always friendly and competent and willing to help.

But in the last couple of weeks the support is less good / not existing.
I am also waiting for 54 BTC to receive since yesterday and I am getting nervous, too.

TAiS46: Please introduce a little fee so you can hire support staff and continue the good work with BTC24. That would be great because I really like BTC24 and it's friendly community on irc.
naitwit
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April 09, 2013, 02:12:49 PM
 #7

TAiS46 has not been there fo a long time. This is really serious and ther is NO WORD from site to anyone. Its dead silent.
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April 09, 2013, 02:14:52 PM
 #8

I had no trouble with this site until two weeks ago when someone posted a link about the site on reddit. I heard that over 100,000 new users signed up that week and ever since it has been chaos…

On top of that, all major players in the bitcoin game seem to be regularly under DDOS attack, which isn't helping much.

I sent a EUR SEPA deposit to bitcoin-24 on the 27th of March, at the time the price of BTC was about 80 EUR. 13 days have now passed, BTC is at 160 EUR and my SEPA deposit has still not shown up at bitcoin-24. Bear in mind that this is a SEPA from an bank account that I have already used to deposit to the same account at bitcoin-24, and that the last time it took 24h…

Multiple attempts to contact the admin (via the web contact form and email) have gone unanswered.

I can understand that the admin (who as far as I can tell is alone in this operation) is very busy, but I have 'lost' 50% of my investment and counting, and as such I would have to warn people off this site until things get back up an running properly.
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April 09, 2013, 02:25:42 PM
 #9

I had no trouble with this site until two weeks ago when someone posted a link about the site on reddit. I heard that over 100,000 new users signed up that week and ever since it has been chaos…

On top of that, all major players in the bitcoin game seem to be regularly under DDOS attack, which isn't helping much.

I sent a EUR SEPA deposit to bitcoin-24 on the 27th of March, at the time the price of BTC was about 80 EUR. 13 days have now passed, BTC is at 160 EUR and my SEPA deposit has still not shown up at bitcoin-24. Bear in mind that this is a SEPA from an bank account that I have already used to deposit to the same account at bitcoin-24, and that the last time it took 24h…

Multiple attempts to contact the admin (via the web contact form and email) have gone unanswered.

I can understand that the admin (who as far as I can tell is alone in this operation) is very busy, but I have 'lost' 50% of my investment and counting, and as such I would have to warn people off this site until things get back up an running properly.

This is totally unacceptable!  Shocked Shocked Shocked

The LEAST that can be done is a short message on their twitter or Homepage that all is OK and that they are overwhelmed, etc...

This takes 30 seconds max!

NO one is too busy for that!
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April 09, 2013, 02:35:37 PM
 #10

I used them on Thursday last week with no issues.  Admittedly I didn't do a cash withdrawal I withdrew my balance in bitcoins.
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April 09, 2013, 02:50:12 PM
 #11

Agree with fydel that it would be good if the site owner hired some personel and communicated that the over-exponential increase in traffic has impacted the friendly and fast service we had come to expect from him untill 2 weeks ago.

I have deposited and withdrawn bitcoins over the past days without problems, deposited and withdrawn via SEPA in the past 3 weeks several times and traded on the site for months without problems.

While some of the problem examples above seem legitimate, I do notice that a lot of people start yelling on the webchat after a SEPA deposit hasn't arrived after a single day, while the site clearly states it takes 3-5 busininess days. In other words, a full week. Or some people that haven't yet even grasped the concept of the blockchain start shouting "bitcoin24 is bad" when a bitcoin withdrawal is not immediate but takes more than an hour sometimes (6 confirmations).

naitwit
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April 09, 2013, 03:07:12 PM
 #12

Until the Site has communicated properly with those that _have_ problems I STRONGLY advise everybody to refrain from depositing anything there.

It only takes 5 minutes to communicate in a decent manner.

It only takes him 2 inutes to fulfil what he promised me. But now there is NO REPLY NO COMMUNICATION  NOTHING!

This is no game.
TrAsHeR
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April 09, 2013, 03:08:30 PM
 #13

The BITCOIN-24.Com it's a scam

Please never buy on the website, because you can lost you're monnaie

so very be careful

JE CHERCHE UNE BONNE ICO. ME MP.
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April 09, 2013, 03:18:53 PM
 #14

I am waiting for SEPA (same day) withdrawal too. They should not advertise that it will be handled within 24h if they can not provide it. Somehow i expect at least a short notification that it will take longer (for whatever reasons).
donjoe
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April 09, 2013, 03:34:50 PM
 #15

Simon probably should've blocked new registrations the second he noticed the user base is becoming too much to handle. Better keep a modest number of relatively satisfied customers than start making a bad reputation and potentially lose everyone.

That said, I don't think there has been any convincing evidence of foul play yet. Everything still looks consistent with the explanation that he just got overwhelmed and hasn't been able to define a good response to the new situation yet.

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xendless
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April 09, 2013, 03:37:35 PM
 #16

That said, I don't think there has been any convincing evidence of foul play yet. Everything still looks consistent with the explanation that he just got overwhelmed and hasn't been able to define a good response to the new situation yet.

Something's definitely amiss though, SEPAs from last week are being credited to people's accounts, meanwhile it seems like a large chunk of SEPAs from 10-14 days ago remain in limbo…

Foul play or no, the lack of communication is unacceptable.
naitwit
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April 09, 2013, 03:48:37 PM
 #17

Simon probably should've blocked new registrations the second he noticed the user base is becoming too much to handle. Better keep a modest number of relatively satisfied customers than start making a bad reputation and potentially lose everyone.

That said, I don't think there has been any convincing evidence of foul play yet. Everything still looks consistent with the explanation that he just got overwhelmed and hasn't been able to define a good response to the new situation yet.

It is very convincing , that I am locked in. Cant get my money, I cant take my bitcoin out. He is not doing what he _promised_ to do. That is a serious problem and UNTIL this is sorted out I warn anyone from depositing enything there.
naitwit
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April 09, 2013, 03:50:12 PM
 #18

By now Simon should be very aware of what is happening. He certainly is aware of these problems but there is not one single word from him regarding this. Anyone who think this is normal is not taking this seriously enough.
fydel
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April 09, 2013, 03:51:10 PM
 #19

Quote
Something's definitely amiss though, SEPAs from last week are being credited to people's accounts, meanwhile it seems like a large chunk of SEPAs from 10-14 days ago remain in limbo…

And there is something wrong with withdrawing coins. My transaction of 53.99 BTCs which I did 12 hours ago is marked as "confirmed" but it doesn't show up in the blockchain. Other people who withdrew their coins after me received them.
So - as being a chicken - I start shitting my pants a little.
naitwit
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April 09, 2013, 04:03:30 PM
 #20

By this time Simon should have seen al this, he has the chance to spend 5 mins at talking to us, but.....silence. This is so wrong and so bad for the Bitcoin community.
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April 09, 2013, 04:16:38 PM
 #21

I have now been able to withdraw BTCs ; so even if SEPAs are blocked in the limbos, there is still a way to "get out".
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April 09, 2013, 04:35:31 PM
 #22

Waiting for my SEPA my too.
Do use this service till this issue is resolved.

It is time for a trading fee. No one should do that much work without payment.
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April 09, 2013, 04:36:02 PM
 #23

I have now been able to withdraw BTCs ; so even if SEPAs are blocked in the limbos, there is still a way to "get out".
Not for me! I am trying 3 hours now to withdraw my btc - it doesn't work!
naitwit
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April 09, 2013, 05:08:13 PM
 #24

I have now been able to withdraw BTCs ; so even if SEPAs are blocked in the limbos, there is still a way to "get out".

Good for you. My SMS does not work. ADMIN :_Has promised_ to fix that but NOTHING HAPPENS! I Cant get my money!!!
fydel
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April 09, 2013, 05:30:50 PM
 #25

Quote
I have now been able to withdraw BTCs ; so even if SEPAs are blocked in the limbos, there is still a way to "get out"

You are so lucky.

TAiS46: Please take a look at my broken withdraw (Account: fydel). I am going on a vacation next week and I really could use some extra money for blackjack and hookers. J
I already donated .704 BTC and I would be happy to donate more.

Quote
53.99900000   2013-04-09 04:56:40   Confirmed
...but doesn't show up in blockchaininfo.

And please hire some helper monkeys.
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April 09, 2013, 07:33:58 PM
 #26

also have the same problem! two SEPA withdrawals... waiting for ages!
i also tried to withdraw some money with a very expensive money parcel. havent got anything yet  Undecided
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April 09, 2013, 07:44:14 PM
 #27

Now I was able to get my btc from bitcoin24 - I am glad...

But I will not trade again on this site - I had bad moments! Seems that the owner disturbs with his silence his business! Why does he not respond? No sign, not here not in his chat, nowhere...

Good luck for all of you who have problems too!
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April 09, 2013, 10:16:18 PM
 #28

I used btc24 a lot over the last 3 months and never had any problems. SEPA/BTC withdrawals and deposits worked always. Only once a withdrawal took more than a week, but with SEPA I think that's not so unusual. I really liked the site. Especially the possibility to instantly (!) deposit Euro's with giropay.

But what I read here doesn't seem good, so I will now also stay away from it and continue trading on mtgox and bitcoin-central.net until this is resolved... I hope that the admin will clear things up with some statement. And I would also prefer to pay a small trading fee if that gives more security and trust. Something like 0.1%-0.2% is still very cheap compared to other sites and wouldn't hurt anybody.

BM-2D9KqQQ9Fg864YKia8Yz2VTtcUPYFnHVBR
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April 10, 2013, 12:21:22 AM
 #29

Those of you with BTC withdrawal problems (except possibly fydel):

The site maintains a 'hot' and a 'cold' wallet as a security measure.
You can only withdraw coins if there are enough in the hot wallet.
It will say 'confirmed' in your BTC withdrawals list if you acknowledged the withdrawal with the email or SMS confirmation code.
This is not the same as confirmations in the blockchain. If the hotwallet is empty, there will be no actual withdrawal until there are coins in the hotwallet again.

You can check the amount in the hotwallet here:
https://blockchain.info/address/1BTC24yVKQdQNAa4vX71xLUC5A8Za7Rr71


spark
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April 10, 2013, 04:05:44 AM
 #30

I've had no issues but always withdraw bitcoin not sepa.

One sepa desposit did take awhile to hit the account... but they said the reference hadn't been included.

Got support via support@bitcoin-24.com
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April 10, 2013, 04:17:51 AM
 #31

They've been under a lot of ddos and regular downtime, take one look at their twitter.

Also,

http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/currency/USD.html

look at the volume thats being traded on btc-24 compared to the other major exchanges. If the 100,000 new users is true then one can imagine the imbalance.

Here is my problem is bitcoin-24 cares:

My 100$ liqpay hasnt showed up or responded to after 3 days. (Usually takes 8hours)
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April 10, 2013, 06:55:49 AM
 #32

An update: I got an email from bitcoin-24 support during the night asking for the SEPA sender's name - they seem to think the transfer may have come through without a reference (there was definitely a reference when I sent it, it shows on my statement, but maybe it got lost en route?)…

I have replied with the information so I assume they are looking into it, although it is still odd that my previous SEPA from the same bank account went through without a hitch.

I will post back when I have news.
naitwit
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April 10, 2013, 07:28:25 AM
 #33

An update: I got an email from bitcoin-24 support during the night asking for the SEPA sender's name - they seem to think the transfer may have come through without a reference (there was definitely a reference when I sent it, it shows on my statement, but maybe it got lost en route?)…

I have replied with the information so I assume they are looking into it, although it is still odd that my previous SEPA from the same bank account went through without a hitch.

I will post back when I have news.

I also got my reply during the night, where they finally executed.

Apparently they have a strange system for "sorting" support. They apparently move All earlier incoming email down in line with the last incoming mail. So if you write
one email, and then another 6 hours later, the first one will be moved down to the last one in que.....

Very strange system, and I have suggested that they change that so that all incoming mail is connected to a "case number". Let's see if they manage something
"not invented here" of if they are stubborn enough to continue with this strange way of treating clients.

I will of course not try any transfer of Fiat from them. To them I never had any problems, and I do think that any problems with that really depend
on the sending part. SEPA, correctly filled, is automatic and pratically fool proof. But of course there are banks that are not perfect.

I did that myself over the Internet and it worked perfectly for me.

For my part this case is closed. It caused me a lot of unneccesary concern, and it is apparent that BTC-24 is under staffed, and they should perhaps take aout a small
trading fee in order to employ some support.
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April 10, 2013, 09:06:00 AM
 #34

I made a SEPA withdrawal 13 days ago. I received an email almost a week ago that withdrawal completed with the my bank account information which was correct. However no money has actually reached my account. I contacted my bank and they said no such transaction ever existed and usually they are able to see transactions coming from other banks even if something is wrong (like incorrect IBAN). Which means that despite B24 saying that "withdrawal completed", my money isn't even stuck somewhere, they never left B24's bank! This isn't looking good..

Oh, and I tried contacting support several times now. Nobody ever answers.

BTC to the moon!
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April 10, 2013, 11:54:50 AM
 #35

Small update from my side.  My SEPA withdrawal went through. So I am fine. But I still would have liked to see better communication from bitcoin-24.
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April 10, 2013, 12:52:11 PM
 #36

Those of you with BTC withdrawal problems (except possibly fydel):

The hotwallet was filled several times but no coins for me.
I had this problem before (about a month ago) and it was solved after talking to user Unflux on #bitcoin24.

The 54 coins are worth quite a lot, so I am beginning to feel rather uncomfortable now. I start worrying that I lost coins worth 10k EUR.
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April 10, 2013, 01:44:31 PM
 #37

I started a SEPA transfert a week ago and i still haven't received anything but that's not what is worrying and pissing me off the most.
What is giving bad feelings about this site is that  for the last three days I have been trying and failing to withdraw my BTC  ! (by withdraw I mean to transfer them into my cold wallet address)

Every time i try to withdraw my btc i cannot because i don't receive the validation code neither by email not by SMS.

I of course tried to contact the support many time , I even sent a message on their facebook page but till now I have got no reply!


I kinda begin to worry about it. I am aware that it can take sometime to get the money on your account when you do a SEPA transfer and I don't mind waiting a little for that. But for me it is unacceptable that you can't withdraw you btc whenever you want !


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April 10, 2013, 01:48:15 PM
 #38

1.8 BTC Vanished from my Bitcoin24 acct I did not get an email notification or email code. I just logged in today and the BTC do not register in my account. Is it because of the hot/cold wallet?
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April 10, 2013, 01:52:09 PM
 #39

1.8 BTC Vanished from my Bitcoin24 acct I did not get an email notification or email code. I just logged in today and the BTC do not register in my account. Is it because of the hot/cold wallet?
Try again and again - till you get an e-mail code! I had the same problem, but after some hours it worked! Good Luck!
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April 10, 2013, 02:05:51 PM
 #40

But i did not try to withdraw the bitcoins, they are just not there!!!
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April 10, 2013, 02:11:52 PM
 #41

But i did not try to withdraw the bitcoins, they are just not there!!!
Sorry, I misunderstood! I cannot help...
There are a lot of problems at this site this days - and no support!
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April 11, 2013, 12:37:46 AM
 #42

I've made a "same day" SEPA withdrawl on 09 April, and on April 10 at 14pm the money were already in my bank account. No probs from my side, only with the website down and up again...
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April 11, 2013, 01:23:05 PM
 #43

Update :
this now seems to go better :
- on Monday 1st, I initiated a standard SEPA transfer
- on Wednesday 10th morning, I received an email from BTC-24 saying that the transfer was processed
- on Thurday 11th (today) afternoon, the money was on my bank account  Smiley
So the bottleneck was on the processing side of BTC-24.
I think I will continue to trust them at least for a while.
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April 11, 2013, 01:42:01 PM
 #44

Every time i try to withdraw my btc i cannot because i don't receive the validation code neither by email not by SMS.

Did you check your spam mail folder? My btc24 confirmation emails usually end up there.
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April 11, 2013, 05:03:57 PM
 #45

Ok. Still missing my coins.

In the current volatil market situation this is really bad for me. I am quite disappointed about the current support situation at BTC24.
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April 11, 2013, 07:15:58 PM
 #46

I started a SEPA withdrawal on March 29, got the email confirmation on April 4 and still nothing on my bank account!
With no word from the support, I'm starting to be really worried. Don't trust this website!
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April 11, 2013, 07:55:10 PM
 #47

I guess Mtgox when they go online. Quite a few people recommend btc24  Roll Eyes
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April 11, 2013, 07:56:23 PM
 #48

I withdrawed my Bitcoins too but they dont show in Blockchain!  Angry I am so scared right now. Did they scam my coins?

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April 11, 2013, 08:01:42 PM
 #49

I withdrawed my Bitcoins too but they dont show in Blockchain! Did they scam my coins?  Angry

Everything is okay now. I got my coins back   Smiley

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TCollar
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April 11, 2013, 08:08:05 PM
 #50

bitcoin-24.com is incorporated in the UK, uses an "office" in France, is hosted by ovh and has its name registered with namecheap (as a rule I never do business with anyone registered with namecheap) and run by a German who apparently uses this as his e-mail b9t1t9a1wr4yqt3ovom1@u.o-w-o.info.

Seems legit.  I would not worry at all.

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April 12, 2013, 11:06:52 AM
 #51

Now the trading engine has gone insane too:
- some trades on the users' active lists just sit there while the price passes over them up and down several times
- some trades are executed multiple times
- account balances show wrong numbers.
(I can only personally attest to the first problem, the others I picked up from the chat.)

This is no way to run an exchange, I'm out.

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April 12, 2013, 11:15:10 AM
 #52

Simon, I think its best to stop the exchange until the problems are solved or more people will get burned.

I can confirm these problems:
- double receiving of coins (not me, but a close friend of mine)
- orderbook not updating (same problem as donjoe)
- withdrawn coins are marked as confirmed but not in blockchain
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April 12, 2013, 11:19:14 AM
 #53

Requested withdrawal on Monday, received funds by Wednesday.

I think that they are just overwhelmed now with same withdrawal requests, as MtGox sucks last 2 days.

 
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April 12, 2013, 11:23:28 AM
 #54

Requested withdrawal on Monday, received funds by Wednesday.

I think that they are just overwhelmed now with same withdrawal requests, as MtGox sucks last 2 days.

 

Did you withdraw btc or sepa? I requested sepa withdrawal Wednesday last week, it's still processing at their end. Sent support ticket yesterday. Why would they process newer requests before dealing with the older ones? Do they just pick randomly from the queue?
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April 12, 2013, 11:30:41 AM
 #55

And there is another variation of the doubling bug.

I sold 0.2 BTC but it was executed multiple times.

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April 12, 2013, 11:32:34 AM
 #56

Requested withdrawal on Monday, received funds by Wednesday.

I think that they are just overwhelmed now with same withdrawal requests, as MtGox sucks last 2 days.

 

Did you withdraw btc or sepa? I requested sepa withdrawal Wednesday last week, it's still processing at their end. Sent support ticket yesterday. Why would they process newer requests before dealing with the older ones? Do they just pick randomly from the queue?

It was SEPA same day request.
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April 12, 2013, 02:06:29 PM
 #57

Piece of crap website hasn't even put my withdrawal on the blockchain yet and I confirmed it via SMS 3 hours ago. Angry

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April 12, 2013, 02:30:33 PM
 #58

is 1AnixjBYxpTzAmfSa8kRdBiUaSGV2e9d26 the cold wallet address eventually?

if so, there is hope  - maybe not all is lost.

my deposit which i traded for eur and tried to withdraw yesterday went there.
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April 12, 2013, 02:32:50 PM
 #59

I sent a lot of money through SEPA to this exchange yesterday. Order was already processed. Is there any way to "charge-back" SEPA payments? I am starting to be worried due to site down and no information from operator.
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April 12, 2013, 02:55:02 PM
 #60

is 1AnixjBYxpTzAmfSa8kRdBiUaSGV2e9d26 the cold wallet address eventually?

if so, there is hope  - maybe not all is lost.

my deposit which i traded for eur and tried to withdraw yesterday went there.
Looks like it, in which case this must be the hotwallet and it's empty right now: https://blockchain.info/en/address/1BTC24yVKQdQNAa4vX71xLUC5A8Za7Rr71

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April 12, 2013, 03:44:10 PM
 #61

The situation is really scary. No info anywhere, people worried about their funds and coins stuck in limbo, while Simon resolves the situation. No announcements, hence all nervous.
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April 12, 2013, 03:48:45 PM
 #62

Maybe someone have contacted Simon ?

It's really disturbing, that no announcements has been published neither, on twitter or facebook pages...
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April 12, 2013, 03:55:26 PM
 #63

I pointed out this thread to him when it was created, but he hasn't answered. This was via Facebook private message.

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April 12, 2013, 04:22:32 PM
 #64

I sent a lot of money through SEPA to this exchange yesterday. Order was already processed. Is there any way to "charge-back" SEPA payments? I am starting to be worried due to site down and no information from operator.
I sent 10k euro yesterday as well. Once the bank has announced the execution of the payment, which usually happens within a few hours, i think that there's nothing practical we can do to stop it. I would stay positive anyway, the situation will be probably sorted out in a few days.
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April 12, 2013, 04:36:51 PM
 #65

There are some small transactions showing up in the btc24 chart during the last few minutes. Seems like they are testing the fixes.

Hopefully it will be back again soon.
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April 12, 2013, 05:00:55 PM
 #66

I don't know about "small" transactions - I see he's been letting through something like 250 BTC in the last hour. Besides, the only positive signal I want to see right now is my BTC in his hotwallet and then out on the blockchain. I don't care about anything else he does after that. (I should've bailed out when this thread started instead of keeping my hopes up and ending up with my BTC frozen for 6 fckin hours during a price drop. I so hate this Simon guy right now.)

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April 12, 2013, 05:13:09 PM
 #67

Quote
Our Service is momentarily not available.
1. All funds (EUR, USD, PLN, GBP & Bitcoins) are safe.
2. All withdrawals will be gradually processed chronologically from another bank account.
3. The Polish authority closed your Bank account in Poland.
4. Our lawyers are working with high pressure on a solution.

We will back with Bitcoin-24 2.0 on when all declarations are finished.

Well btc24 "exchangers" we wont be taking part in current btc price resolving situation ... Smiley

UPDATE:


Quote
All important Emails can be send to help@bitcoin-24.com
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April 12, 2013, 05:17:32 PM
 #68

Simon is a pretty well known DJ, so he should be able to manage a high volume, monetary transaction website with little or no problems huh?  Just like spinning records and listening to only half of a headphone while bobbling your head rhythmically hoping for the fog machine to kick in.

This glitch must just be the fog machine not kicking in, since that is the same problem that online trading companies run into all the time.

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April 12, 2013, 05:25:16 PM
 #69

Quote
Our Service is momentarily not available.
1. All funds (EUR, USD, PLN, GBP & Bitcoins) are safe.
2. All withdrawals will be gradually processed chronologically from another bank account.
3. The Polish authority closed your Bank account in Poland.
4. Our lawyers are working with high pressure on a solution.

We will back with Bitcoin-24 2.0 on when all declarations are finished.

Well btc24 "exchangers" we wont be taking part in current btc price resolving situation ... Smiley

Something tells me he has packed up and left with whatever he can carry.  This should stall people for time..."Ahh...I still have my money its just that it is safe.  But, transactions are happening...eventually...It is not the website's fault but the Polish Banking Shutting Down Authority....and his lawyers are working on it.  Yep, I can wait before any real, meaningful inquiry.

Those of you who pressure him directly are more likely to get a refund as he stalls before Johnny Law, or Jarek Lawski since he is in Poland, catch up with him.

I have a phone number for him but I have no idea if it works.  PM me if you want it.

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April 12, 2013, 05:47:13 PM
 #70

Hello,

look at the site, he has give a new Statement...

https://bitcoin-24.com/

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April 12, 2013, 06:03:12 PM
 #71

That "new" statement was already quoted above.

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April 12, 2013, 06:05:52 PM
 #72

The only thing i'm wondering about is to whom the money that were used to multiple-sell were taken. If it was from the buyer, we would have seen people complaining about buying 10 bitcoins and paying them as 20 or multiples, but i haven't read any. There seem to be only multiple selling instances. So where do the extra money come from? There must be a hole somewhere, just to know where it is.
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April 12, 2013, 08:10:11 PM
 #73

I've got a my lifes savings in currency and BTC in there.
Wooha. Thats a problem. But to be honest, BTCs are just an experiment. I wouldn't bet anything on just one card. Always be aware, such a thing can allways drop to 0.0 and is worthless.

Get real money: BTCs to Paysafecard: http://tumbl.info/index.html?ref=190
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April 12, 2013, 08:15:34 PM
 #74

I've got a my lifes savings in currency and BTC in there.
Wooha. Thats a problem. But to be honest, BTCs are just an experiment. I wouldn't bet anything on just one card. Always be aware, such a thing can allways drop to 0.0 and is worthless.

Im a lot more concerned about the euro that was there than the BTC, about 60 BTC, euro was a lot more. I could only withdraw 5k a day on the daily limit. My life is over if this guy doesnt come back.

This sounds odd. Wish you all the best buddy.

Get real money: BTCs to Paysafecard: http://tumbl.info/index.html?ref=190
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April 12, 2013, 08:23:20 PM
 #75

Quote
Our Service is momentarily not available.
1. All funds (EUR, USD, PLN, GBP & Bitcoins) are safe.
2. All withdrawals will be gradually processed chronologically from another bank account.
3. The Polish authority closed your Bank account in Poland.
4. Our lawyers are working with high pressure on a solution.

We will back with Bitcoin-24 2.0 on when all declarations are finished.

Well btc24 "exchangers" we wont be taking part in current btc price resolving situation ... Smiley

Something tells me he has packed up and left with whatever he can carry. 

More likely this is a result of many mongoloids panicking in past 2 days because they couldn't get in on the "run" (transfers not showing up in their BTC24 accounts 3 seconds after they've made them), and quite few people were seemingly reporting BTC24 to police, bank, whomever.

I had no idea how many greedy idiots there are in this world until now.
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April 12, 2013, 08:53:02 PM
 #76

OVH should have his old contact information.  The number I thought I had was from the OVH Whois Obsfuscator  +33.899498765 so that alone will not get you anywhere but with enough people OVH might be willing to give up his billing information.

Lots of bitcoin transaction websites are going titsup and blaming it on circumstances related to customer use and not packing up hard currency and leaving.

Did any of you research Simon Hausdorf before and realize you were giving money not to someone who set up live monetary transaction systems for a living but instead was a spikey gel haired DJ?  I mean he went from DJ to currency exchange in an instant and no one noticed?

That is the dodgy thing about bitcoin, is that hardly any of the movers and traders had anything to do with financial systems before setting up shop.  Mark Karpeles was a php programmer who bought a "Magic: The Gathering" trading card site and turned it into the outlet of the a currency that is supposed to take over the world.

Its like a Michael Lewis book that writes itself.

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April 12, 2013, 09:00:09 PM
 #77

I guess this is just the kind of situation they put up warnings like this in the newbie subforum for: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=33835.0

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April 12, 2013, 09:06:06 PM
 #78

I guess this is just the kind of situation they put up warnings like this in the newbie subforum for: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=33835.0

"Trust No One" is really just secret code for "Trust a Spikey Haired DJ Who Uses Name Cheap and OVH Whois Obsfuscation For Financial Transactions Then Blames Poland And Asks People To Wait"

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April 12, 2013, 09:08:28 PM
 #79

Did any of you research Simon Hausdorf before and realize you were giving money not to someone who set up live monetary transaction systems for a living but instead was a spikey gel haired DJ?  I mean he went from DJ to currency exchange in an instant and no one noticed?

I've met the guy a couple of times, so I feel I need to chime in to tell everyone to calm the fuck down.

He's an idealist.
He never took trading fees - he could've made a friggin killing with that.
He never arbitraged on his own exchange - something I pointed out to him repeatedly would be the first thing I would do given the amount of cash and BTC he could hold at other exchanges.

I do not at all think that he just up and left.
I think his venture got larger than he expected, he ran into some serious technical trouble and some dipship went crying mommy to the police, who promptly shut the place down.

He'll be accused of many many things, and I don't want to be in his place right now. I have (had?) 15k€ on my account which are probably lost, so I am probably gonna feel some hurt as well. I do hope that indeed my funds are safe and that the withdrawal request I sent to the help email will be filled.

I had a bad feeling the past few days but didn't act upon it. Too bad.
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April 12, 2013, 09:13:51 PM
 #80

What exactly do you mean by "crying to the police"?  Do the police in Poland shut down a website doing financial trading because of "crying" or were they worried about a law being broken? 

So you met him a few times and he is an idealist.  But he put up a site that did financial transactions and was in over his head.  His lawyers are obviously not putting on pressure, because if they had been any good at all and if he had any juice at all before he got in this game his lawyers would have found a way to prevent "crying", so his lawyers, if they exist at all are not very talented.  Maybe his lawyers do the lights at his DJ gigs.

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April 12, 2013, 09:28:17 PM
 #81

I can understand if euros/dollars are locked up but we should be able to get bitcoin out as bitcoin aren't stored in some polish bank. Honestly I got into bitcoin to avoid banks so hearing you can't get your bitcoin back because some guy's bank account is suspended is bs.

I'll give it a couple of days before I spend my remaining btc on a hitman from silkroad.

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April 12, 2013, 09:37:20 PM
 #82

I have (had?) 15k€ on my account which are probably lost.
I have 10k in there, so "lost" my ass. Money don't get lost, it changes pockets. Exactly in which pockets are they? Could you tell that? The Polish account will probably be unfrozen soon, so that's not the problem. Isn't anybody interested in where the fuck their money is... Huh

What i fear is that Simon will be "forced" to use our deposits to cover the hole created by the multiple-selling bug, that has been the cause of all of this in the first place.
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April 12, 2013, 09:39:30 PM
 #83

I've met the guy a couple of times, so I feel I need to chime in to tell everyone to calm the fuck down.
[...]
I do not at all think that he just up and left.
I think his venture got larger than he expected, he ran into some serious technical trouble and some dipship went crying mommy to the police, who promptly shut the place down.
I never said this was a point where calling the police sounded like a good idea or where I thought I had lost all my coins for good. I still think there's a good chance of getting my stuff back, though it will likely not happen before Monday and if the weekend dip takes us to something like $10-$20 for the last time in Bitcoin history while I'm unable to trade, I will probably still feel justified in holding a bad opinion of Bitcoin-24 and never wanting anything to do with it again.

Also, even if everyone does get their money back, I think they should still use the scare they will have gone through as a lesson in attitude toward Bitcoin security (see link above - "Trust No One").

Lastly, I don't think the police shut down anything, as some order executions have continued to trickle out ever since he made the interface inaccessible and I don't think anyone would try to go against law enforcement measures in such a visible way.

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April 12, 2013, 10:00:44 PM
 #84

What exactly do you mean by "crying to the police"?  Do the police in Poland shut down a website doing financial trading because of "crying" or were they worried about a law being broken? 

So you met him a few times and he is an idealist.  But he put up a site that did financial transactions and was in over his head.  His lawyers are obviously not putting on pressure, because if they had been any good at all and if he had any juice at all before he got in this game his lawyers would have found a way to prevent "crying", so his lawyers, if they exist at all are not very talented.  Maybe his lawyers do the lights at his DJ gigs.



Of course laws were broken. German laws. And I am guessing that some German lawpeople (we arr good wiz ze law, yu know) talked to some Polish law people who acted instantly.
For you know, fucking with the gov's finance/tax institutions is the worst you can do these days. I'll just throw some acronyms out there... KYC? AML? BAFIN?

If you think that lawyers will preemptively shield you from any and all legal complaints some (bavarian... baruthian... just guessing here...) assclown files, please assume otherwise.

I would think that it's the EUROs that are safe (since they're held by a bank) and the BTC are what's gonna disappear.

We'll see.
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April 12, 2013, 10:01:55 PM
 #85

uh huh.

So it's early days in this new currency....

Did anyone think different ?
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April 12, 2013, 10:05:23 PM
 #86

Honestly, it scares me most the implication of the police and financial authorities than the possibility that the guy ran out with the money.

Everybody knows who evil is in this market, and in this case I'm quite sure it's not the guy.
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April 12, 2013, 10:10:04 PM
 #87

I would think that it's the EUROs that are safe (since they're held by a bank) and the BTC are what's gonna disappear.
Well, at the very least I'd expect the 7000 BTC that are still visible in the (or just one of the?) colldwallet(s?) to remain available for proportional redistribution even if the whole thing is forced to shut down.

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freethink2013
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April 12, 2013, 10:13:07 PM
 #88

this is what it feels like to be cypriot
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April 12, 2013, 10:14:00 PM
 #89

whats the latest update to this?
freethink2013
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April 12, 2013, 10:19:28 PM
 #90

whats the latest update to this?

still the same. amazing how much 'stuff' happens on a friday just before going home time. It gives crooks the weekend to escape. he's probably half way to south america by now.

Quote
Our Service is momentarily not available.
1. All funds (EUR, USD, PLN, GBP & Bitcoins) are safe.
2. All withdrawals will be gradually processed chronologically from another bank account.
3. The Polish authority closed your Bank account in Poland.
4. Our lawyers are working with high pressure on a solution.

We will back with Bitcoin-24 2.0 on when all declarations are finished.

All important Emails can be send to help@bitcoin-24.com
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April 12, 2013, 10:20:47 PM
 #91

OK, this is my first post on this forum.

First of all, I would like to say that i have 21,000 EUR + approx 100 BTC on the bitcoin 24 exchange right now.
I actually started using this website this week, it sounded good, had had no major security breach, was paying people on time. So I exchanged BTC and made a withdrawal of 20,000 on the 07/04/2013. Because i thought the website was cool, I also made a donation of 1BTC (worth 200 EUR at that time) to the guy.
My username on this website is littlechubb05 by the way.

I'm quite pissed off now as you can imagine.

Simon fucked up badly:
- with the authorities (no KYC, etc.)
- with his engine (bugs in the engine resulting in wrong balances)
- with his customers (i sent him an email on the 08/04, never got any answer, despite the fact that i was his bigger donator that week...)

Now, looking at what others are saying about him, it looks like he's not a criminal or a scammer.
He just fucked up while trying to do good.
I'm not sure what to do right now, but what we need to do is help him, not put more pressure on him. Surely, his first iteration of Bitcoin 24 is now dead. But I think most of the money is still there, like 90% of it. Most of them will be frozen by the polish authorities though and might be kept for years, or maybe just taken away by the polish government. Who knows. But there is some hope that he can fix things too and we get our money back. Obviously, none of us will go back to Bitcoin 24.

I would also like to say that if the media catch this story, this will be a huge hit on Bitcoin in general. It's entirely possible that millions of Euros might be kept by the polish authorities. If the media know that, it can kill Bitcoin because nobody will ever trust the exchanges anymore. No exchange, no bitcoin.

On another note, who said Simon is also a DJ?
I doubt that, it might simply be a homonym.

Thanks for reading me.

Ivan
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April 12, 2013, 10:26:44 PM
 #92

typo: littlechubba05

Now that i'm thinking about it, I should have offered Simon some help earlier on.
But i just came on Bitcoin 24 last week, and it took me some time to realize what was really happening.

I don't plan to take any legal action against him right now (not before a few weeks at least, if at all). I hope others will do the same, the wisest thing to do is to cool things down so we can get something back.
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April 12, 2013, 11:11:54 PM
 #93

Is everybody sleeping already?  Wink
freethink2013
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April 12, 2013, 11:15:15 PM
 #94

Is everybody sleeping already?  Wink


thought we were back:( may as well sleep tbh
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April 12, 2013, 11:35:26 PM
 #95

I would think that it's the EUROs that are safe (since they're held by a bank) and the BTC are what's gonna disappear.
Well, at the very least I'd expect the 7000 BTC that are still visible in the (or just one of the?) colldwallet(s?) to remain available for proportional redistribution even if the whole thing is forced to shut down.


There are a couple of cold wallets, see here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=174600.msg1821468#msg1821468

Total of 18k coins in addresses linked to Simon Hausdorf

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April 12, 2013, 11:57:13 PM
 #96

The only thing i'm wondering about is to whom the money that were used to multiple-sell were taken. If it was from the buyer, we would have seen people complaining about buying 10 bitcoins and paying them as 20 or multiples, but i haven't read any. There seem to be only multiple selling instances. So where do the extra money come from? There must be a hole somewhere, just to know where it is.

Thought of the same .... - mostly people just got too much .... more then what they should have gotten.... so somehow, the hole will be on bitcoin-24 itselve. its obvious, that he (Simon) himself pays and paid the dept on the male-doubles.... ...

so, right... he is to blame for communication and technique faults and that all the acounts, bitcoins, money is now *locked* - but still... if we all get back to our accounts and holdings, still he will be maybe the only one, who lost some coins !

Donations (btc): 1GPKvRoY8HopqGgTLAFfJxhtTRYp89Yauj ♥♥♥ THX - Muchas Gracias - Dankeschφn - Merci - Спасибо! - धन्यवाद! - شكرا - 谢谢 ♥♥♥
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April 13, 2013, 12:10:19 AM
 #97

Frustrating now being able to post in the rest of the forum. Has he ever posted here himself?

I hope there is some word soon and the funds are safe, jesus christ i hope so
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April 13, 2013, 12:21:52 AM
 #98

Yes, apparently he posted on the forum last year.

A big problem is that apparently, Simon didn't know what a database transaction was until last month. That's what his post on stackexchange shows.
For those who are not versed in software developement, i will sum up quickly: his database will end up with a lot of erroneous transactions and balances, especially if the trading volume is high.

This is really bad. I think we need to ask to delete his post on stackexchange (and then delete my present post on here). It's the same, once people know that the second biggest exchange was run by a young beginning developer with no knowledge of transactions, it will be a big shock. I'm sure that even the MtGox developers are not that bad. And still, everybody is laughing at them after the debacle. It's only a matter of hours/days before the news catch the whole thing. And it won't be just Fox News with their Bitcoin bashing, it will be the serious tech press, with articles written by people with much more credibility.

Simon needs help. He's alone, facing all this. He's the developer, the lawyer, the customer support. Now his accounts are frozen. And he's only 24.

Let's go to bed. I hope he will ask us for help. There are a lot of professional and worldwide recognized developers on this forum that can give him a hand. People with experience with banking and law too.

See you guys  Smiley
freethink2013
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April 13, 2013, 12:29:50 AM
 #99

Yes, apparently he posted on the forum last year.

A big problem is that apparently, Simon didn't know what a database transaction was until last month. That's what his post on stackexchange shows.
For those who are not versed in software developement, i will sum up quickly: his database will end up with a lot of erroneous transactions and balances, especially if the trading volume is high.

This is really bad. I think we need to ask to delete his post on stackexchange (and then delete my present post on here). It's the same, once people know that the second biggest exchange was run by a young beginning developer with no knowledge of transactions, it will be a big shock. I'm sure that even the MtGox developers are not that bad. And still, everybody is laughing at them after the debacle.

Simon needs help. He's alone, facing all this. He's the developer, the lawyer, the customer support. Now his accounts are frozen. And he's only 24.

Let's go to bed.

See you guys  Smiley

looks like i've lost a couple of grand but this attitude of feeling sorry for people who have made a lot of money off people is bs. they can either do what they sold their service as or they can't and if they can't then they should refund everyone. people here seem to have the attitude oh this guy gave it a go and failed let's applaud him....he has thousands of bitcoins profit. let him fail after paying back everything he owes. as it stands he's a fraudster.

tell me why bit coin withdrawals are closed? it has zero to do with banks anywhere.

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April 13, 2013, 12:41:27 AM
 #100

tell me why bit coin withdrawals are closed? it has zero to do with banks anywhere.



probably because of the problems with the trading engine. if everyone withdraws their coins i imagine it will make the current situation more difficult to resolve than it already is - ie rolling back trades to get most accounts back to where they were will become impossible. can't say i am very comfortable with it though.

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April 13, 2013, 12:57:17 AM
 #101

they can either do what they sold their service as or they can't and if they can't then they should refund everyone.
That would all be nice and fine, except it depends a lot on what legal classification Bitcoin trading falls under at this time. If it's considered more akin to gambling than banking, it could very well be argued that you aren't entitled to any refund. I don't think we'll really know until we see a few Bitcoin-related lawsuits and get the judicial system's take on Bitcoin. Until then what you're seeing is that people mostly expect Bitcoin not to be recognized or protected by the state as any kind of property or real value.

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April 13, 2013, 01:56:42 AM
 #102

they can either do what they sold their service as or they can't and if they can't then they should refund everyone.
That would all be nice and fine, except it depends a lot on what legal classification Bitcoin trading falls under at this time. If it's considered more akin to gambling than banking, it could very well be argued that you aren't entitled to any refund. I don't think we'll really know until we see a few Bitcoin-related lawsuits and get the judicial system's take on Bitcoin. Until then what you're seeing is that people mostly expect Bitcoin not to be recognized or protected by the state as any kind of property or real value.

FWIW The French IRS officials have said that they're not sure if Bitcoin is money, a raw material or a liquid asset or the tax applying to added values.

"A l'heure actuelle, nous ne disposons d'aucune information concernant la nature (monnaie, matiθre premiθre, valeur mobiliθre ?) des bitcoins et la fiscalitι applicable aux plus-values de cessions rιalisιes.
Regrettant de ne pouvoir rιpondre ΰ votre attente,
X.Y., CONTROLEUSE FIP"
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April 13, 2013, 02:05:24 AM
 #103

they can either do what they sold their service as or they can't and if they can't then they should refund everyone.
That would all be nice and fine, except it depends a lot on what legal classification Bitcoin trading falls under at this time. If it's considered more akin to gambling than banking, it could very well be argued that you aren't entitled to any refund. I don't think we'll really know until we see a few Bitcoin-related lawsuits and get the judicial system's take on Bitcoin. Until then what you're seeing is that people mostly expect Bitcoin not to be recognized or protected by the state as any kind of property or real value.

FWIW The French IRS officials have said that they're not sure if Bitcoin is money, a raw material or a liquid asset or the tax applying to added values.

"A l'heure actuelle, nous ne disposons d'aucune information concernant la nature (monnaie, matiθre premiθre, valeur mobiliθre ?) des bitcoins et la fiscalitι applicable aux plus-values de cessions rιalisιes.
Regrettant de ne pouvoir rιpondre ΰ votre attente,
X.Y., CONTROLEUSE FIP"

Very interesting thanks for relaying!

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April 13, 2013, 09:38:15 AM
 #104

any news?

sto per lanciare i lovecoin impossibili da comprare con i soldi e da minare con la corrente.
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April 13, 2013, 10:00:52 AM
 #105

Simon will process the Bitcoins withdrawals. I'm pretty sure of that.
However he needs to reconcile the accounts first. Remember that his trading engine is not working properly, all the numbers and balances are wrong, it is a big mess.
First of all, he needs to fix that, then send the Bitcoins withdrawals.
Then, he will process the money withdrawals.

Let's not call him a scammer, he wasn't running his exchange as a profit making scheme. He's just incompetent.
The problem is that not enough people warned us that this exchange was flaky, although it was very clear from his noob messages on forums. The community should have said STOP, loud, before it was too late.
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April 13, 2013, 10:20:19 AM
 #106

Simon will process the Bitcoins withdrawals. I'm pretty sure of that.
However he needs to reconcile the accounts first. Remember that his trading engine is not working properly, all the numbers and balances are wrong, it is a big mess.
First of all, he needs to fix that, then send the Bitcoins withdrawals.
Then, he will process the money withdrawals.

Let's not call him a scammer, he wasn't running his exchange as a profit making scheme. He's just incompetent.
The problem is that not enough people warned us that this exchange was flaky, although it was very clear from his noob messages on forums. The community should have said STOP, loud, before it was too late.

I've fiat currency balance in there that doesn't have a withdrawal request against it because i cant get on to make one + before this mess could only withdraw to the limit a day.

A statement would go a long way,, i cant sleep at the moment.
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April 13, 2013, 10:43:29 AM
 #107

Yeah, at the very least it would be nice to know that the reason he's been letting the orders execute one by one is that he (or someone) is in the process of untangling the engine/database mess and getting everyone's accounts to a comprehensible state.

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April 13, 2013, 10:44:56 AM
 #108

Yes, apparently he posted on the forum last year.

A big problem is that apparently, Simon didn't know what a database transaction was until last month. That's what his post on stackexchange shows.
For those who are not versed in software developement, i will sum up quickly: his database will end up with a lot of erroneous transactions and balances, especially if the trading volume is high.

This is really bad. I think we need to ask to delete his post on stackexchange (and then delete my present post on here). It's the same, once people know that the second biggest exchange was run by a young beginning developer with no knowledge of transactions, it will be a big shock. I'm sure that even the MtGox developers are not that bad. And still, everybody is laughing at them after the debacle.

Simon needs help. He's alone, facing all this. He's the developer, the lawyer, the customer support. Now his accounts are frozen. And he's only 24.

Let's go to bed.

See you guys  Smiley

looks like i've lost a couple of grand but this attitude of feeling sorry for people who have made a lot of money off people is bs. they can either do what they sold their service as or they can't and if they can't then they should refund everyone. people here seem to have the attitude oh this guy gave it a go and failed let's applaud him....he has thousands of bitcoins profit. let him fail after paying back everything he owes. as it stands he's a fraudster.

tell me why bit coin withdrawals are closed? it has zero to do with banks anywhere.

This.
Nailed it.
As it stands he is a scammer.
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April 13, 2013, 10:57:26 AM
 #109

Bitcoin withdrawals could be closed because it isn't known yet what the law will force him to do. If the law completely ignores Bitcoins and just forces him to repay all the EUR he owns, while at the same time the Polish insist on keeping his account locked, then his only recourse will be to sell the BTC to get EUR and pay his EUR debts first. If he let the BTC fly away right now, he'd be potentially restricting his ability to comply with some legal obligations he may be slapped with.

Besides, if the orders and account balances aren't sorted through first, he doesn't necessarily have good information on who is a legitimate owner of how many BTC anyway. What if some people acquired more BTC than they had a right to when the engine went crazy and then immediately issued BTC withdrawal orders? If he served those orders he'd be making some of the engine's errors unfixable.

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April 13, 2013, 11:04:14 AM
 #110

and what you think will happen to those who deposited to the polish account, I made a deposit on the day before, thorugh the PLN currency option...
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April 13, 2013, 11:19:38 AM
 #111

Again, please refrain from posting non-rational statement and keep the thread on-topic.

Simon cannot process the withdrawals (BTC or fiat). First of all, he has to sort the database out. Remember that his whole thing is mess and he's not an experienced developer.
Once he's confident that the database is sorted, he can start with the withdrawals.

My fear is, this database problem has been going on for a very long time (months probably), and was probably even worth before (with time, he probably improved as a developer). This mean that a lot of people ran away with fiat/BTC that they shouldn't have had. I would suspect that he was able to keep things running because of the growth of his platform and the number of new users and deposits.
Basically, this could be a Ponzi scheme, excepted that I don't think he was benefiting from it. Only some unethical bug exploiters did. I also think that Simon was checking his database every few days at least and see if the disrepancy was big. If it really was, he would have shut down the exchange earlier.

Let's see what happens.
I'm going to give you my personal guess about the status:
- Overall, Simon fucked up the engine and money was lost, with no turning back
- the lost money probably doesn't exceed 20% of the total amount of the current assets he has
- some additional money was frozen (in Germany or Poland). We don't know how much there was there. But one thing that has a high probability, is that this money will be frozen for a very long time. Investigations like this one take months/years. Especially if there is a lot of IT involved.

To sum up:
- if get 50% of our fiat, i think we're lucky.
- we should be able to get 80% of our BTC back.


Remember, I have 21,000 EUR in there + 100 BTC
At that time, it was worth 45,000 EUR.

Not the happiest guy in the world today  Smiley
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April 13, 2013, 12:34:36 PM
 #112

Looks like a reasonable situation analysis.
Hope you all get all your values back!!
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April 13, 2013, 12:37:35 PM
 #113

i hear more and more that hes not a very good developer.
thats everthing else but good. how should he know if some backdoor is lurking on his database-server?
i mean the site seems to me quite big. why didnt he get some people to help him? like they do with open source projects...
why didnt he made a dedicated site like www.helpme.bitcoin-24.de like some kind of blog where he could ask everything you would ask on a programming-forum but with the feature that hes the only one who can post questions. there are a lot of programmers in the bitcoin-community who would have been happy to help him, im sure.

if he wants to get back to his hobby, he must do something like this, else 24 will run into problems again and again and...
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April 13, 2013, 12:54:32 PM
 #114

Does it helps to think so pessimistically about this situation without knowing any verified facts ?

As far as I know, and saw, the engine went nuts for an hour or two maximum, the effect there visible, and we know for sure, that the trading engine was broken for that period of time. Guesses about weeks or months without any proofs is not rational statement, it only makes situation worse, because, weak-nerves people, can believe in your statements blindly, and start panic, which can lead to delayed date of market salvation.  

I completely agree and recommend for everyone to stay calm and do not send dozens of emails to Simon, with foolish questions about FIAT or BTC withdrawals. At the moment it's just not possible, to satisfy all the customers which intends to withdraw either BTC or FIAT, because of the broken engine problem mentioned above. Nobody is special, and no one will get his BTC until the problem is solved and the solution is found.

I am not, making any personal guesses, because this situation is quite unique, and there is no assurance that it will be solved soon or it could take a bit longer. It just wont help. At this moment, the best thing you can do is just continue living, concentrate on other things, wait patiently and then the times come, withdraw your money.

i hear more and more that hes not a very good developer.
thats everthing else but good. how should he know if some backdoor is lurking on his database-server?
i mean the site seems to me quite big. why didnt he get some people to help him? like they do with open source projects...
why didnt he made a dedicated site like www.helpme.bitcoin-24.de like some kind of blog where he could ask everything you would ask on a programming-forum but with the feature that hes the only one who can post questions. there are a lot of programmers in the bitcoin-community who would have been happy to help him, im sure.

if he wants to get back to his hobby, he must do something like this, else 24 will run into problems again and again and...

Nobody born as a "good developer", "good singer", "good mathematician", "good engineer" or "good anything else". The market is not perfect, nobody is, it's commendable, that one guy, not a huge company with millions of dollars, created a market, which became so popular and helped people to trade with almost no fees. He's learning, people improve only by facing and solving problems, sitting on a couch wont lead you far.

Instead of coming here and writing this not very valuable comment, you could reviewed your ideas on a paper and send them to Simon with an offer to help improve the exchange.


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April 13, 2013, 01:02:45 PM
 #115

you talk about months/years... you forgot "never".

im a little upset from this guy. i mean he knew at the very first moment, the first customer, the first deposit, the first entry in his database, that he got other peoples mony in his responsibility.
i heard about a bug which went on since 4 weeks and no change here. i mean what did he think? thata the problem will get solved from itself? ok maybe hes not that guilty because this happend at the very same time where big players like MtGox and others had problems. who ever triggered this thing...
but if i ran that service and experience problems i would go and get some help. i mean at least a security-guy should have been onboard.

i didnt had 49.000 € on bitcoin-24, by far not as much and i had it in bitcoins. but im not a rich person and thats why i am upset, i feel the loss of that money.

i dont know but if someone behaves like that, hes probably one of those persons i wouldnt just like. ok he run that service free and so on, but finally was that really free?
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April 13, 2013, 01:08:29 PM
 #116

Hope this gets resolved soon before it explodes in the media, this was the biggest euro/btc exchange site so it's not a small thing. I also have most of my fiat and btc stalled there, so I can't really buy or trade much anymore until this is fixed. Sad

Bitcoin = Gold on steroids
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April 13, 2013, 01:11:26 PM
 #117

im a little upset from this guy. i mean he knew at the very first moment, the first customer, the first deposit, the first entry in his database, that he got other peoples mony in his responsibility.
And everyone who put their money into BTC should've known from the first day that their money could evaporate in an instant and that they were taking a huge gamble. That's why smart investors all over the place keep telling everyone over and over: don't invest more money than you're comfortable losing.

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April 13, 2013, 01:32:08 PM
 #118

Quote
Nobody born as a "good developer", "good singer", "good mathematician", "good engineer" or "good anything else". The market is not perfect, nobody is, it's commendable, that one guy, not a huge company with millions of dollars, created a market, which became so popular and helped people to trade with almost no fees. He's learning, people improve only by facing and solving problems, sitting on a couch wont lead you far.

Instead of coming here and writing this not very valuable comment, you could reviewed your ideas on a paper and send them to Simon with an offer to help improve the exchange.


1.) how do you know what i write on paper and help to improve who?

2.) yeah nobody is born as a programmer,you're right. (but maybe a few) but i can learn and improve by writing a shell-script which displays me the current exchange-rate of what ever and not learning "real-life"-database-programming with the hard earned money of thousands of people. in this case i would seek for big help. you take that a little bit to easy i think. (maybe you didn't lose anything?)

3.) for me, YOUR comment was not valuable at all, because you just do what a lot of people do in forums: "tell other people to not complain and instead they should do something about it like being productive" well, thats an old shoe, a really old shoe.

4.) im not complaining, i try to express some ideas to see what people think about it thats all, i don't need you explaining me the old shoe... you taught me nothing new here

5.)"almost no fees" im not so sure about that anymore.

6.)i didnt attack this person in no way, so why you come up with this, you probably feel very smart criticize other peoples thoughts.

greets
gugubagiBTCplease
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April 13, 2013, 01:50:53 PM
 #119

im a little upset from this guy. i mean he knew at the very first moment, the first customer, the first deposit, the first entry in his database, that he got other peoples mony in his responsibility.
And everyone who put their money into BTC should've known from the first day that their money could evaporate in an instant and that they were taking a huge gamble. That's why smart investors all over the place keep telling everyone over and over: don't invest more money than you're comfortable losing.

yeah youre right but i knew that at the very first time. but still im upset because i lost money (may i please, thanks). and i still think its not really serious what he did. that has nothing about to do with not knowing what gamble means. i think its not serious to go all there alone, with that much money. why are you people always comment other peoples posting and think you can teach them.
and by the way, i think even the smartest investor has feelings and gets upset if he looses alot of money.
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April 13, 2013, 02:10:01 PM
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Quote
Nobody born as a "good developer", "good singer", "good mathematician", "good engineer" or "good anything else". The market is not perfect, nobody is, it's commendable, that one guy, not a huge company with millions of dollars, created a market, which became so popular and helped people to trade with almost no fees. He's learning, people improve only by facing and solving problems, sitting on a couch wont lead you far.

Instead of coming here and writing this not very valuable comment, you could reviewed your ideas on a paper and send them to Simon with an offer to help improve the exchange.


1.) how do you know what i write on paper and help to improve who?

2.) yeah nobody is born as a programmer,you're right. (but maybe a few) but i can learn and improve by writing a shell-script which displays me the current exchange-rate of what ever and not learning "real-life"-database-programming with the hard earned money of thousands of people. in this case i would seek for big help. you take that a little bit to easy i think. (maybe you didn't lose anything?)

3.) for me, YOUR comment was not valuable at all, because you just do what a lot of people do in forums: "tell other people to not complain and instead they should do something about it like being productive" well, thats an old shoe, a really old shoe.

4.) im not complaining, i try to express some ideas to see what people think about it thats all, i don't need you explaining me the old shoe... you taught me nothing new here

5.)"almost no fees" im not so sure about that anymore.

6.)i didnt attack this person in no way, so why you come up with this, you probably feel very smart criticize other peoples thoughts.

greets

Could you please first read consistently what I wrote, and then reply ?

1. I was talking about these ideas circumstantial presentation to Simon directly...

Quote
i mean the site seems to me quite big. why didnt he get some people to help him? like they do with open source projects...
why didnt he made a dedicated site like www.helpme.bitcoin-24.de like some kind of blog where he could ask everything you would ask on a programming-forum but with the feature that hes the only one who can post questions. there are a lot of programmers in the bitcoin-community who would have been happy to help him, im sure.
   
2. You've got a point here, but where is that mark, when you can call yourself an amateur or pro. When you know how to code one programming language or five ? I mean, come on, he couldn't be stupid or incompetence and create one of the biggest markets. Look at mtgox with a lot of earnings and still failing even more then btc24. No one is immune of failing.

3-4.You can categorize or call it how you like. But still I see no arguments, that trying to look at situation calmly is worse than complaining.

5-6. ?_?

Anyway no need to answer, I have no interest in discussion off-topic. People come here to follow the progress of the market, as I do too.


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April 13, 2013, 02:21:56 PM
 #121

Mtgox failing more than btc24? I don't think so, the situation at btc24 is much more serious than the one Mtgox has or had.

Bitcoin = Gold on steroids
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April 13, 2013, 02:27:44 PM
 #122

Yes, apparently he posted on the forum last year.

A big problem is that apparently, Simon didn't know what a database transaction was until last month. That's what his post on stackexchange shows.

-----

For those who are not versed in software developement, i will sum up quickly: his database will end up with a lot of erroneous transactions and balances, especially if the trading volume is high.

Simon needs help. He's alone, facing all this. He's the developer, the lawyer, the customer support. Now his accounts are frozen. And he's only 24.

Let's go to bed. I hope he will ask us for help. There are a lot of professional and worldwide recognized developers on this forum that can give him a hand. People with experience with banking and law too.

See you guys  Smiley
Maybe you could get in touch with him, make an offer to help. You could try via an email to the support helpdesk for Bitcoin-24.

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April 13, 2013, 02:28:53 PM
 #123

2. You've got a point here, but where is that mark, when you can call yourself an amateur or pro. When you know how to code one programming language or five ? I mean, come on, he couldn't be stupid or incompetence and create one of the biggest markets. Look at mtgox with a lot of earnings and still failing even more then btc24. No one is immune of failing.
As a developer I can tell you that you are plain wrong on this one.
He was indeed incompetent. There are still quite few markets out there, and none of them has proven to be reliable, just because he build the second biggest, it doesn't mean sh_t, it's not like the first one is a very impressive server anyway. So... no.
This bitcoin histeria attracted very many people that will do anything for quick money. Perhaps when bitcoin is well stablish the markets will play an insignificant role and be confined to their little corner. At the moment, they are the easiest way to get bitcoins, despite all their issues.
Using bitcoin24 was not a very wise idea, thats for sure. But AFAIK there is no market that has consistently proved to be reliable and serious.


Quote
Anyway no need to answer, I have no interest in discussion off-topic. People come here to follow the progress of the market, as I do too.
Are you seriously posting on a message board addressing your conversation peer not to reply?
If you do not want to take part on a discussion, then don't. Saying one's opinion then tell the other person not to reply... honestly?
Why would you think you got to say the last word?
Never ceases the amuse me that 15+ years after the inception of web forums, people still think they look good with this atitude.
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April 13, 2013, 02:33:41 PM
 #124

I had 35 Euros on that site... Have they released any more information to when it will be back up?
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April 13, 2013, 02:53:33 PM
 #125

Quote
Quote
Anyway no need to answer, I have no interest in discussion off-topic. People come here to follow the progress of the market, as I do too.
Are you seriously posting on a message board addressing your conversation peer not to reply?
If you do not want to take part on a discussion, then don't. Saying one's opinion then tell the other person not to reply... honestly?
Why would you think you got to say the last word?
Never ceases the amuse me that 15+ years after the inception of web forums, people still think they look good with this atitude.

Well I would like to correct you "no need to reply" and "do not reply" is different things. 

"no need to reply" means - I don't give a f**k if you reply, because I do not see a point to continue this discussion
"do not reply" means - I give a f**k, who says the last word

In a conclusion, I could say, I don't give a f**k how I look facing the forum, I just expressing my opinion.

Quote
Quote
2. You've got a point here, but where is that mark, when you can call yourself an amateur or pro. When you know how to code one programming language or five ? I mean, come on, he couldn't be stupid or incompetence and create one of the biggest markets. Look at mtgox with a lot of earnings and still failing even more then btc24. No one is immune of failing.
As a developer I can tell you that you are plain wrong on this one.
He was indeed incompetent. There are still quite few markets out there, and none of them has proven to be reliable, just because he build the second biggest, it doesn't mean sh_t, it's not like the first one is a very impressive server anyway. So... no.
This bitcoin histeria attracted very many people that will do anything for quick money. Perhaps when bitcoin is well stablish the markets will play an insignificant role and be confined to their little corner. At the moment, they are the easiest way to get bitcoins, despite all their issues.
Using bitcoin24 was not a very wise idea, thats for sure. But AFAIK there is no market that has consistently proved to be reliable and serious.

Then you are saying that competent is the one who can create perfect market ? No crash, no lag, immune to hacks and so on ? If everybody would think like that, then we most likely wouldn't have any markets at all, because everyone of common exchange markets are vulnerable. But anyway this situation is just a misunderstanding, because of difference of word value...

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April 13, 2013, 03:09:17 PM
 #126

Well, my SEPA transfer eventually came through during the crash. I had half of my assets in BTC and the other half in EUR at the site (which I have been using for a while previous to a couple of weeks ago without any problems).

I requested a SEPA withdrawal of a fair chunk of money a few hours before everything went tits up.

I'm holding out hope that he'll be able to get this sorted, and would urge people to keep in mind Hanlon's Razor* during these problems…







* Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
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April 13, 2013, 03:13:43 PM
 #127

Yes, apparently he posted on the forum last year.

A big problem is that apparently, Simon didn't know what a database transaction was until last month. That's what his post on stackexchange shows.

-----

For those who are not versed in software developement, i will sum up quickly: his database will end up with a lot of erroneous transactions and balances, especially if the trading volume is high.

Simon needs help. He's alone, facing all this. He's the developer, the lawyer, the customer support. Now his accounts are frozen. And he's only 24.

Let's go to bed. I hope he will ask us for help. There are a lot of professional and worldwide recognized developers on this forum that can give him a hand. People with experience with banking and law too.

See you guys  Smiley
Maybe you could get in touch with him, make an offer to help. You could try via an email to the support helpdesk for Bitcoin-24.



I would really like to help as well.

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April 13, 2013, 03:25:14 PM
 #128

@Taduliauskas @zemario

Simon indeed was not fit for the task. He should have learned basic database theory before doing an exchange of this scale. He can become a good developer if he wants to. But not knowing about transaction was simply announcing the failure of the exchange.
If I had seen his posts before that, I would of course never have used his exchange. My mistake.

I'm supportive of Simon. This guys needs time and less pressure. Let's give him that. But let's also be honest, his development skills were not up to the task. That's all i'm saying.
I was already simply trying to give people an estimate and probabilities based on what I know. I might be off the mark, maybe you have more information than I do. But you say the engine went nuts for only a few hours before the shut down. Yes, it went nuts then, but without a proper implementation of transactions, it has been flawed for months. That's just the reality.
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April 13, 2013, 03:26:49 PM
 #129

I could also very easily help Simon.
I don't know if he wants help though. He has been running his exchange by himself from the beginning, knowing what his technical limitation were.
He also didn't even realize that he had to do proper KYC to run an exchange.
This is worrying, I'm not sure he realize that he needs help.
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April 13, 2013, 03:55:46 PM
 #130

Simons been on reddit http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46

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April 13, 2013, 04:30:33 PM
 #131

Quote
I am waiting for the "go" from my lawyer to know, what I can write in the official statement I will give all users with email and on reddit.

Hopefully soon enough we will get more information "officially".

Quote
because the polish bank account was closed and I tried to do the business again over a German bank account.

Not so long ago, in my country, two banks had bankrupt. All procedures took ~month..
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April 13, 2013, 04:36:12 PM
 #132

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I am waiting for the "go" from my lawyer to know, what I can write in the official statement I will give all users with email and on reddit.

Not so long ago, in my country, two banks had bankrupt. All procedures took ~month..
thats not the case here. the bank is still functional, but the funds may well be seized due to the illegale operations.
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April 13, 2013, 04:38:39 PM
 #133

If someone is active on reddit (and since for some reason the operator has only posted there) might be a good idea to point out to him that trades are still occurring almost 24 hours after shutdown.

http://s2.bitcoinity.org/markets/bitcoin24/EUR
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April 13, 2013, 04:53:50 PM
 #134

Quote


Nobody born as a "good developer", "good singer", "good mathematician", "good engineer" or "good anything else". The market is not perfect, nobody is, it's commendable, that one guy, not a huge company with millions of dollars, created a market, which became so popular and helped people to trade with almost no fees. He's learning, people improve only by facing and solving problems, sitting on a couch wont lead you far.

Instead of coming here and writing this not very valuable comment, you could reviewed your ideas on a paper and send them to Simon with an offer to help improve the exchange.


1.) how do you know what i write on paper and help to improve who?

2.) yeah nobody is born as a programmer,you're right. (but maybe a few) but i can learn and improve by writing a shell-script which displays me the current exchange-rate of what ever and not learning "real-life"-database-programming with the hard earned money of thousands of people. in this case i would seek for big help. you take that a little bit to easy i think. (maybe you didn't lose anything?)

3.) for me, YOUR comment was not valuable at all, because you just do what a lot of people do in forums: "tell other people to not complain and instead they should do something about it like being productive" well, thats an old shoe, a really old shoe.

4.) im not complaining, i try to express some ideas to see what people think about it thats all, i don't need you explaining me the old shoe... you taught me nothing new here

5.)"almost no fees" im not so sure about that anymore.

6.)i didnt attack this person in no way, so why you come up with this, you probably feel very smart criticize other peoples thoughts.

greets

Could you please first read consistently what I wrote, and then reply ?

1. I was talking about these ideas circumstantial presentation to Simon directly...

Quote
i mean the site seems to me quite big. why didnt he get some people to help him? like they do with open source projects...
why didnt he made a dedicated site like www.helpme.bitcoin-24.de like some kind of blog where he could ask everything you would ask on a programming-forum but with the feature that hes the only one who can post questions. there are a lot of programmers in the bitcoin-community who would have been happy to help him, im sure.
   
2. You've got a point here, but where is that mark, when you can call yourself an amateur or pro. When you know how to code one programming language or five ? I mean, come on, he couldn't be stupid or incompetence and create one of the biggest markets. Look at mtgox with a lot of earnings and still failing even more then btc24. No one is immune of failing.

3-4.You can categorize or call it how you like. But still I see no arguments, that trying to look at situation calmly is worse than complaining.

5-6. ?_?

Anyway no need to answer, I have no interest in discussion off-topic. People come here to follow the progress of the market, as I do too.




ok youre right lets stop that, doesnt make a sense to fight here and i see some pints in your arguments too... il hand you over my pipe of peace.

btw,  there is allready a thread about helping simon where ever we could. (even i think we cant afterwards..., i guess that should have been made before):
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=175123.20

lets hope he is good and didnt ran into something too heavy for him. but from what i read, he is not alone. i thought he did the whole project by himself...

bye
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April 13, 2013, 06:11:32 PM
 #135

I find it extremely suspicious that a whois search on bitcoin-24.com returns a "WhoisGuard Protected" identity.  See http://www.networksolutions.com/whois/results.jsp?domain=bitcoin-24.com .

It would be helpful if bitcoin-24 admin would post some supporting documentation concerning their situation here (or any information at all, for that matter).

In the meantime, I've sent three emails to them now in the last 48 hours.  No reply yet...

One more thing: While bitcoin-24 was offline, I'd like to understand how it is possible that trades were being placed.  It's now been over 7 hours since the last trade was reported, but that is a lot more recent that the time since they've been down.

See http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/btc24EUR_trades.html

Is there some other way to trade than via the web interface?  What am I missing here?

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April 13, 2013, 06:55:14 PM
 #136

Those should be old trade requests registered before the interface was taken offline. I hope. Smiley

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April 13, 2013, 06:56:21 PM
 #137

Those should be old trade requests registered before the interface was taken offline. I hope. Smiley

Over the course of an entire day and reported with timestamps after the closure?
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April 13, 2013, 09:32:27 PM
 #138

...
One more thing: While bitcoin-24 was offline, I'd like to understand how it is possible that trades were being placed.  It's now been over 7 hours since the last trade was reported, but that is a lot more recent that the time since they've been down.

See http://bitcoincharts.com/markets/btc24EUR_trades.html

Is there some other way to trade than via the web interface?  What am I missing here?

Maybe those trades were being used internally to test database collision problems, notice sometimes two trades executing at exactly the same time. The streaming socket had not been turned off so bitcoincharts heard the tests. That's just my thoughts.


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April 14, 2013, 02:30:02 AM
 #139

Over the course of an entire day and reported with timestamps after the closure?
What makes you so sure the trades are timestamped at the source and not just at the destination (i.e. whatever chart website you're using)?

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April 14, 2013, 02:36:04 AM
 #140

Seems like a lot of people will have issues now that the Poland SEPA account has been suspended?

Hope to see all my money back before the EU crisis hits again and everything gets lost..
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April 14, 2013, 03:52:03 AM
 #141

Nobody was born a good airplane pilot either but it is not unreasonable to expect someone flying passengers to know how to fly and not unreasonable to complain when they crash.

Same with online financial transactions.

He may not have started out a scammer, but he is in a position now where he actually has to give people their stuff back or become a scammer by default.

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April 14, 2013, 10:30:13 AM
 #142

News from "Reddit"

Quote
All money send to the BZWBK (Poland) bank account and which are still send to this account, can not be stopped. The Bank account in Poland is noch closed, it is just blocked! So all arriving payments will not send automatically back.

The Comerzbank (German bank account) is closed in 2 Month. We are not able, to send funds anymore from this bank account, because we had a very low limit on this bank account and I can't get money out of it. My lawyer is in contact with the bank on monday.

First of all, we must find the reason for all this, what happen. All we know is, that the German government asked for help from the Poland government, to close the Bank account in Poland. Some people are asking now: Why is not the Commerzbank still closed? The reason is, that it is not so easy in Germany to close an bank account within some minutes like it is in poland.

WHY does the German government closed our bank accounts and WHY do they give us no information, before they are doing this? WHY must we hear from the Polish government, what happening atm?

    1 Lawyer, 1 from the Government and 2 students in Poland are helping us to get the Polish Bank account back. I am sure, that we will get the bank account back, maybe also this week! So we are able to do all payouts which are open.
    Asking the Commerzbank for more information, why they also closed our bank account, wich reason did they have to do this?
    Our lawyer is trying to get the Commerzbank account back, because there is no reason, to close our bank account.
    Setting up the trading engine again

More informations tomorrow, after my lawyer gives me a feedback if it is safe to publish that, what I am writing. It is not easy atm for me to give a statement, before it was double checked.

The situation looks quite ugly, even if there are people in government to help him. Lets hope for the best !

http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46

Here you can follow the progress. Looks like it's the only place were Simon contact with the public officially.
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April 14, 2013, 11:26:51 AM
 #143

Quote from: TAiS46
yes, thats me, I have no reason to hide my self. it is not me, who must be "fucked", it is the government. official statement in this evening or tomorrow! we had no chance, to prevent this current situation.

They only pushed a button and the bank account was closed. the biggest shit is also, that we know all this thing from the poland finance ministry, and not from the german. The german told us nothing. We try also, to get a compensation from the german government for all the things happen! And I am sure, we (BTC24 Limited, my lawyers and good friend from me) can get them and pay it as a "bonus, compensation" to the BTC24 Users.
Heh, that would be very reassuring.

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April 14, 2013, 12:51:13 PM
 #144

The situation looks quite ugly, even if there are people in government to help him. Lets hope for the best !
The situation could turn out quite ugly also for the users. Everyone who sent the money to or from that account is now connected with an account suspected to be used for money laundering. Not fun  Angry
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April 14, 2013, 05:28:41 PM
 #145

So his only contact with people is his one way conduit of information on Reddit?

I suspect the eventual outcome will be this:

Everything is so horribly wrong that the only outcome is that I keep everything.  Sorry.  In the mean time please read my reddit posts so that you may replace your anger at me with pity.

I predict that other bitcoin based "financial services" will end up like this soon too.  So if any of you who moved on from say Anime Enthusiast who did some php programming on the side to trading virtual currency to Ringgit and are worried about facing the death penalty in whatever Confucian country you based your business out of, you may either want to:

1. Run.  Drop shop, keep on posting reassuring things about how you are running into technical problems because bitcoins are so awesome and they should be fixed by the time your plane lands in Paraguay your upstream provider resolves the glitch.

2. PM me.  I work with financial modeling.  I will give you free advice (which will be how to hire and find a competent person to fix your site) or I will give you my own rates (I am expensive).

I expect most of you to run, and perhaps consider Paraguay for the first time after reading it here.

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April 14, 2013, 06:02:07 PM
 #146

OMG you guys must be kidding me ??
I had a few hundreds of euros on there. not a huge deal. But i had 400 bitcoins on it too  Angry Angry My frigging' life savings.

He's not replying to my e-mail and it's more than 30 hours passed.


I want my 400 BTC back asap!

Can anyone PM me this guy his details, i am gonna sue him, i'm taking this serious, this is a shitload of money!

What do you guys think will happen?? OK, money maybe frozen, but the btc must be in there, if not, i will sue this guy.

Thanks to everyone who can help me.
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April 14, 2013, 06:30:48 PM
 #147

OMG you guys must be kidding me ??
I had a few hundreds of euros on there. not a huge deal. But i had 400 bitcoins on it too  Angry Angry My frigging' life savings.

He's not replying to my e-mail and it's more than 30 hours passed.


I want my 400 BTC back asap!

Can anyone PM me this guy his details, i am gonna sue him, i'm taking this serious, this is a shitload of money!

What do you guys think will happen?? OK, money maybe frozen, but the btc must be in there, if not, i will sue this guy.

Thanks to everyone who can help me.

You're not the only one.

If you read all the threads on it here and on reddit you'll see he's not disappeared and is working on it. Don't do anything that is going to slow him down.

I have more to lose than you do but i dont see what other option we really have at this point.
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April 14, 2013, 06:35:50 PM
 #148

I'm starting to think TCollar is better ignored for now because he likes to spread FUD about this situation a little bit too much. Rational people know it's better to just wait and see what happens during the next work week rather than sling mud at Simon on this topic.

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April 14, 2013, 06:40:47 PM
 #149

I'm starting to think TCollar is better ignored for now because he likes to spread FUD about this situation a little bit too much. Rational people know it's better to just wait and see what happens during the next work week rather than sling mud at Simon on this topic.

OK.

I am sure everything will be fine on Monday.  The 24 year old DJ turned international money trader will sort stuff out because that is what DJs turned financiers are best at doing.

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April 14, 2013, 06:53:57 PM
 #150

Quote
You're not the only one.

If you read all the threads on it here and on reddit you'll see he's not disappeared and is working on it. Don't do anything that is going to slow him down.

I have more to lose than you do but i dont see what other option we really have at this point.

Exactly, there is nothing productive for us to do if we want our money back.
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April 14, 2013, 09:14:34 PM
 #151

The alarming thing is he hasn't mentioned a single thing about BTC (or the lack of BTC due to double trading).  If there is no issue with the BTC then open the site up to only allow withdraw of BTC.  Simple.  Suddenly the average exposure for most users is cut in half.  I would also be a good faith effort.

The fact that he hasn't done this (and has from his limited responses just ignored the concept of BTC completely) is suspicious.  My guess (just a total guess based on prior history)
a) he can't because BTC owed is > BTC available.  If true he should announce that now.  It has nothing to do w/ frozen Euros so get the truth out in the open.
b) he doesn't intend on returning the BTC.  If true I hope some users in Germany have good lawyers.
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April 14, 2013, 10:22:04 PM
 #152

New update from Simon on reddit. Did not get much wiser. http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46/

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April 14, 2013, 10:29:07 PM
 #153

I have a serious problem with this site.

They have locked in my coins and apparently others dont get their SEPA payments.

I would strongly suggest you stay away from that place until I have sorted this out.

Admin have answered only after 5 days, and promised to fix, BUT, Nothing happens and no answer.

No answer at ANY address!

This is serious and I welcome any help.

Has this been resolved yet?
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April 14, 2013, 10:30:20 PM
 #154

New update from Simon on reddit. Did not get much wiser. http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46/

That's good news IMHO. The case that Deutsche Bank has on him seems much thinner (albeit still a serious issue) than all the speculation and FUD that has been going around would have had us believe. Amidst all this I've actually found that Simon is an all right chap.. Although maybe a little naοve when it comes to legal issues.

EDIT: Typos...
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April 14, 2013, 10:37:07 PM
 #155

Possibly, but by this time he should have found the opportunity to give some concentrated info, not just another "random answers" on reddit. I for one would like to know about the status of the comerzbank account since I have 1500 euro arriving there tomorrow. Is it frozen? transaction limit? When can we expect refunds? etc.....

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April 15, 2013, 12:02:27 AM
 #156

Copy-paste from his last message in reddit
Quote
Little Update! As some of you know, I had some problems with the German bank accounts in the past. I have solved the problem with moving to Poland and we had also never problems with them.
Why does this all happen? The "Deutsche Bank" in Germany had some phishing attacks / hacker and some funds where send to my bank account. This attacks does not stop on the "Deutsche Bank", because it seems, that it is a very stupid bank! So they closed my bank accounts in Germany and I got an invite from the German police, to tell them, what I am doing. After that I had no problems but my Bank accounts where closed. (this all happen in the start time of bitcoin-24)
In my opinion the problems where fixed. I moved to poland and make all business on the BZWBK. The Germans are now fighting against me and the "Deutsche Bank" has still the same problems, that people are sending me money from stolen bank accounts! THATS NOT MY PROBLEM! The only thing I can do now is to not accept payments from the "Deutsche Bank".
The Germans think now, that I am trying to get money with this methode. So they look now, where I have money and try to close all bank accounts.
Why in Poland? The Germans think, I am a criminal guy and they will stop the crime. They asked the poland for help and they closed my bank account in poland.
I have 7 days to make something against this, otherwise my bank account will be closed for the next 3 month! I am very sure, that we can get back the bank account in the next time. I will not give you a promise, but it is possible, that I will get back the bank account in the next week.
(sorry for my bad english)

So yeah, he is already preparing ground to make everybody wait for three months. "Just wait", typical scammer strategy, make everybody wait until the eventually loose hope of getting back what would be rightfully theirs.
He is already "giving promises" but people don't want promises, they want their money.
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April 15, 2013, 12:17:19 AM
 #157

I love FUDders, don't you? They always help resolve tricky situations so much faster...
 Roll Eyes

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April 15, 2013, 12:33:40 AM
 #158

If he is a scammer then what purpose does it serve to continue to post updates?  He has the money and the BTC so what more would he need?
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April 15, 2013, 12:34:55 AM
 #159

DO NOT TRUST THE BY AN NEW POSTER ANNOUNCED "ALPHA" OF BTC24

IT LOOKS LIKE SOMEONE TRYING TO SCAM PPL

http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c7utl/bitcoin24com_the_polish_authority_closed_your_our/c9f9fcp

EDIT:

CHECK IF POSTET IN OTHER RELATED THREADS, IF NOT, DO SO
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April 15, 2013, 12:36:05 AM
 #160

If he is a scammer then what purpose does it serve to continue to post updates?  He has the money and the BTC so what more would he need?

Well I am not saying he IS a scammer but Pirate for example provided "updates" for weeks before running away with the funds.  It is a psychological trick used to let someone down slowly.  At day 0 of the scam so many people are active and highly pissed off all it takes is one to track you down and feed you a brick to ruin your day.   But as the weeks role by as the victims hold out hope slowly they get use to the idea they have lost their funds and move on.
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April 15, 2013, 01:07:01 AM
 #161

DO NOT TRUST THE BY AN NEW POSTER ANNOUNCED "ALPHA" OF BTC24

IT LOOKS LIKE SOMEONE TRYING TO SCAM PPL
What the above meant to say was "Do NOT enter your BTC24 username and password here: alpha.bitcoin-24x.com because it's a phishing scam meant to steal your money, it's NOT a new website created by Simon Hausdorf."

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April 15, 2013, 07:21:55 AM
 #162

Does someone one where this guy Simon lives?
I can't seem to figure why doesn't he allows bitcoin withdrawals, this shouldn't be a problem whether his bank account is closed or not.
BEWARE people he might be a scammer, if he wasn't he would have allowed us to withdraw our bitcoins.
This situation is damn serious, this was the biggest euro market.
And now we're learning that this huge stockmarket was controlled by a youngster with no freaking experience!
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April 15, 2013, 08:39:20 AM
 #163

I really wish he would release our bitcoins. Let the Euros stay for a few days/weeks. But need the BTC now.

Coinsecure referral ID: https://coinsecure.in/signup/refamit (use this link to signup)
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April 15, 2013, 08:54:33 AM
 #164

Latest news from Simon is that all passwords will be reset in the 2.0 version, I suppose this is to undo potensial scams after the phishing attempt?

Really wish he would get of his ass and give a statement concerning funds and BTCs.

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April 15, 2013, 10:08:41 AM
 #165

last night there came also some messages via twitter:

https://twitter.com/Bitcoin24com

does not sound good to me.

Donations (btc): 1GPKvRoY8HopqGgTLAFfJxhtTRYp89Yauj ♥♥♥ THX - Muchas Gracias - Dankeschφn - Merci - Спасибо! - धन्यवाद! - شكرا - 谢谢 ♥♥♥
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April 15, 2013, 10:15:19 AM
 #166

Is the Twitter-Account real ??

he writes there, last night:

Quote
Bank are saying, that they will support Bitcoin! But they don't. It is time for a press release, that the banks will NOT accept Bitcoins!

and then:

Quote
It is time for something new. A new big business and a very serious Company, which can not be fuc***! We will be back for sure!


this postings:

joke or real ?

 Huh Huh


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April 15, 2013, 11:05:47 AM
 #167

Hard to say, he seems to think the most important thing to his customers is to get back the opportunity to trade at btc24, while what we really want is to know our funds and coins are safe. The longer he takes to convince us about this the more credibility he and his site will loose.

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April 15, 2013, 11:14:36 AM
 #168

It is also strange that he has so for not made a single comment about the bug that occurred on the last day before the site closed.
It is conceivable that despite this bug the balance is OK, i.e. the fiat/BTC available does match the sum on the accounts. Even if it doesn't the loss could be insignificant because there was little possibility to get BTC or fiat out of the site on the last day and the bug was very rare before then.

but he should tell us whether this is the case or not.

Given that he is clearly trying to comfort us, I fear the worst. Else he would have already confirmed that everyones funds are covered.
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April 15, 2013, 11:18:39 AM
 #169

What a BS. Why does he still put up that e-mail address is he doesn't respond to any e-mail.
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April 15, 2013, 12:41:02 PM
 #170

New post from tais46, 8 minutes ago:

Quote
objection is send to the PL government! hope to get the bank account open this week. but I am sure we can clear this. I can't say a date, sorry for that.

I believe this guy is really working his butt off to clear stuff up; he's a little bit naieve though.
I trust him but I don't trust the banks he's doing business with though...
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April 15, 2013, 02:17:36 PM
 #171


Quote
objection is send to the PL government! hope to get the bank account open this week. but I am sure we can clear this. I can't say a date, sorry for that.

All this information about the "Polish government", "Polish authorities" and "closing the account" is hopelessly unclear. Without more information we might assume that the bank account was simply blocked/frozen (but not closed) by the bank due to some kind of AML procedure.

If the bitcoin-24 owner shared the contents of the official communication from the bank or from these unknown "authorities" concerning the problem, we could speculate more.
By the way, Polish bitcoin community exists and some of its members could perhaps give some useful hints, if only the bitcoin-24 owner cared to describe his problems with the Polish bank in more detail.
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April 15, 2013, 02:49:52 PM
 #172


If the bitcoin-24 owner shared the contents of the official communication from the bank or from these unknown "authorities" concerning the problem, we could speculate more.


Agreed, these vague answers on reddit is starting to piss me off, and the mood in the reddit thread is turning quite hostile now.

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April 15, 2013, 04:18:43 PM
 #173

I understand everyone is fucked up about the situation. I also have a five figure stake at Bitcoin24; but I do believe the guy running it is honest. His decisions have just been poor.  Reading all his messages at: http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46 gives me the idea he's doing his best.

He mentioned he'd come back with some answers today, so I give him the benefit of the doubt. The last thing he needs are lawsuits on top of this pile of shit. I just can't believe he's having a comfortable sleep over this; not with all his details out on public and all.

My guess is that the cause of this is indeed some kind of AML-issue. If this is indeed the case, wouldn't this be settled when all accounts are verified via propper ID?
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April 15, 2013, 04:54:20 PM
 #174

On friday, I was ok to give the guy time to sort things out.
Today, i'm starting to feel a bit more angry.

Simon: do your database rollback, check for duplicates manually, reconcile your accounts and see how many bitcoins you can give back to people. We all hope not more than 10% of our bitcoins have been lost in your fucked up engine.

As for the money, as said before I had 21,000 EUR there.
My feeling is that the money is safe, but lost. On such events, banks usually freeze the money for years. Most of the time, they never give it back until a court order has been given to give the money back. It can take 5-10 years for this to happen.
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April 15, 2013, 05:16:33 PM
 #175

On friday, I was ok to give the guy time to sort things out.
Today, i'm starting to feel a bit more angry.

Simon: do your database rollback, check for duplicates manually, reconcile your accounts and see how many bitcoins you can give back to people. We all hope not more than 10% of our bitcoins have been lost in your fucked up engine.

As for the money, as said before I had 21,000 EUR there.
My feeling is that the money is safe, but lost. On such events, banks usually freeze the money for years. Most of the time, they never give it back until a court order has been given to give the money back. It can take 5-10 years for this to happen.

Why so long?
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April 15, 2013, 07:35:03 PM
 #176

Apparantly, according to the following facebook post, Simon posted a little while ago mentioning the roll-back is succesful and he is waiting for the polish bank.

https://www.facebook.com/bitcoin.24/posts/622449231101962?comment_id=7172850


Edit:

New post by Simon

http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46/

Quote
my lawyer is saying, which information i can give to you. also that I can't publish a ETA when we are online again. But when I say, we are back on friday, and we are not back on friday, I have much more problems.

Edit 2:

Another one
Quote
hey, it is ok to go to the police or your own lawyer. at this moment it would also help us, to make a collective suit to the banks and german government.
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April 15, 2013, 07:53:30 PM
 #177

Simon should do a quick youtube video.

Do it in German language no problem.

At least show his face and give us a quick reassurance with his voice.

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April 15, 2013, 08:00:07 PM
 #178

I hope I'm not spamming this chat but here's more info I digged up. Just posted a few seconds ago.

Quote
-tell us how much money (in btc or $) that was lost due to the buggy engine
-tell us when you will have finished the roll back of transactions and what will be the policy
-tell us when we can start withdrawing our money
-stop talking about your bank accounts problems for a while
-stop whining about the german governement (you are faulty)
-give us updates often (at least once per day)


Quote
-0
-all double trades where reset.
-I can't. If I give you a date, you insist on it. My lawyer told me the same
-Ok, so I will not talk again about banks and when they open the bank account again.
-I am not. My lawyer is saying the same. They have no right to close my bank account
-I am trying it as you can see!

I can understand his point of view... if he tells us a date and he can't make it, everyone will be pissed^10
...which actually is hard to imagine seeing how angry everyone is already...
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April 15, 2013, 08:14:04 PM
 #179

I love FUDders, don't you? They always help resolve tricky situations so much faster...
 Roll Eyes

I hear everything is going very well now in spite of what it looks like.

Once I saw a bunch of sheep that were mutilated in a field.  I wondered if a wolf had attacked them, and then someone said "Don't cry wolf...people will jump to conclusions" so I didn't and everything was fine.

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April 15, 2013, 08:16:13 PM
 #180

http://kuttler.eu/post/what-happened-bitcoin24/

"Hi, I have to clear some things up.
As you mentioned in your post, I said on IRC that around 6000 BTC left the Hotwallet that day and well.. I was wrong. I also included incoming transfers in my first calculation (oops) and actually "only" 4800 BTC left the Hotwallet (see: http://hastebin.com/hunetanuyo.pl). However I don't think that the trading engine bug was a big problem at all. If you look at z3c0's paste, you can see that double trades started to occur at 12:00 and the last withdrawel was at 11:03, so all money seems to be still in the system. I hope this helps some people to calm down a little Wink Thx for your blog! Keep us updated."

Good news.

Also

"Ok, here we go >
They can't say a lot, but THIS lawfirm that is mentioned on the imprint has not been doing anything this
weekend, since their lawyer for "Polish Affairs' is on holiday >
nobody called their yet about bitcoin-24, we were the first to call
Frau [edit] will get back to us tomorrow, she is the laywer for "Polish affairs" in this lawfirm, she
was on holidays, so what simon says "his laywers are busy with it" is not true, or it is another lawfirm... but
not the one on his imprint
they will however say tomorrow morning more to us, they can give some statement, but they didn't know a lot
about this , so it's not that important or not a lot is known here...
could be, because "bitcoin-24" did not ring a bell to them...
could be that this is not the lawfirm of bitcoin-24 at all...
not a lot of good info... I don't trust it
so we need to know WHICH Lawfirm represents Simon !
very important, put it on the Redditss & Facebook !
but with the "flying to poland with our laywers" it's not this lawfirm...
so we need a confirmation from Simon, who actually is his "lawfirm" because the one on his imprint didn't know
anything about it
so again, the lawfirm mentioned on bitcoin-24's imprint, probably has nothing to do with it, So we need Simon
to say, which lawfirm represents him, somebody should ask this on the reddits & facebook"

Slightly disturbing news.

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April 15, 2013, 08:33:40 PM
 #181

So when he was saying his lawyers were applying pressure that meant his lawyers had never heard of it until some person called them.

Or am I spreading FUD?

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April 15, 2013, 08:44:44 PM
 #182

You're avidly attaching yourself to every little piece of seemingly bad news and insisting on blowing a trumpet about it every time, calling Simon names and making smart-ass comments with not a single constructive word in them, so yes, you're still a FUDder to me.

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April 15, 2013, 08:48:28 PM
 #183

So when he was saying his lawyers were applying pressure that meant his lawyers had never heard of it until some person called them.

Or am I spreading FUD?



Some person called the lawyers whose legal statement Simon grabbed from their website. I would really like to know who is Simon's lawyer.

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April 15, 2013, 08:58:45 PM
 #184

If the bitcoin community is a good reflection of real life stock brokers, then I can see why the slightest amount of FUD causes so much turmoil on the reallife exchanges. Just look at what happend with Gox a couple of days ago.. if everyone would've kept their cool for a while, instead of all the hysteria, stuff usually, works out.

The only one who knows whats going on is Simon, and while I agree he should give more information, I still believe he's doing all that's in his power to solve it.
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April 15, 2013, 09:09:41 PM
 #185

You're avidly attaching yourself to every little piece of seemingly bad news and insisting on blowing a trumpet about it every time, calling Simon names and making smart-ass comments with not a single constructive word in them, so yes, you're still a FUDder to me.

I am.  Bad news needs to be dissected and exposed.  Like it good areas of the more mainstream economy things like my eventless and pleasant bitcoin selling at Starbucks do not need to be mentioned though they happen every other day.  Others like me have similar experiences.

Why not use pressure to make Simon be more honest about what is happening and hope it serves as a cautionary tale for the next person with no experience who says "hey!  I know!  A bitcoin exchange for hard currency!  What could possibly go wrong?"

To me FUD is "bitcoin is untested...in spite of its daily use I dunno" and not "Scams look scammy so maybe scammy looking things is also a scam?"

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April 15, 2013, 09:13:41 PM
 #186

I still believe he's doing all that's in his power to solve it.

I΄m giving him the benefit of the doubt, but he really should have himself a crashcourse in communication.

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April 15, 2013, 09:17:05 PM
 #187

I still believe he's doing all that's in his power to solve it.

I΄m giving him the benefit of the doubt, but he really should have himself a crashcourse in communication.

+1000 on that.
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April 15, 2013, 09:21:47 PM
 #188

Quote
our engine is checking the account balance before withdrawing. with this issues we had, the orders are not succeeded completely. But the users has seen it in their accounts.
tonight we are working on a withdrawing page. I hope that I can publish it tomorrow in the day.
dollars and bitcoins withdrawals will be allowed asap, before EUR withdrawing, because only the EUR bank account is closed, not the USD, GBP and PLN.
There you can also see, that I (Simon Hausdorf) have no problems with the government. It is only the bank account wich has problems! If I had problems, they should also close my private bank account and also the BTC24 Limited USD, GBP AND PLN Bank accounts on the same bank!
source: http://www.reddit.com/user/TAiS46/comments/

He seems rather active today. He also wrote a German reply; my german is a bit rusty but I believe he is using the same lawyers MtGox is using in Poland.
Next to that, he plans to sue for loss of income..but we already knew about that plan.

I'm getting slightly more hopefull. I hope when this shit does gets solved, everyone spreading FUD will have the damn courtesy to give him a donation.
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April 15, 2013, 09:30:33 PM
 #189

I did a transaction to my bitcoin 24 account last thursday, before the shutdown. Does anyone know if the deposit will get canceled?
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April 15, 2013, 09:31:41 PM
 #190

I have hear seperate issues as well definitely stay away!!

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April 15, 2013, 11:14:56 PM
 #191

The pastebin holds a lot of information!

5 million has been frozen in Poland.. but apparantly there is a back-up account which has about 2 million.

Also:

Quote
<TAiS46> Casimir1904 / all: if they really froze the bank account for 3 month! I will sell my private bitcoins for you money. I will think about, how I will handle it. maybe that the user can only exchange some % of their money to BTC … but i must also ask my lawyer what he says about this.

.. I think a lot of hysteric people misjudged this guy...

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April 15, 2013, 11:33:57 PM
 #192

Quote
-tell us how much money (in btc or $) that was lost due to the buggy engine

Quote
-0

Here are my experiences with btc24:
- A friend of mine told me in January that his coins were doubled after buying some and he could withdraw them (karma -1 for him)
- In January after buying coins for myself they were credited doubled too (+49 BTC). I told this to support on irc to the user "unflux" and I after that my balance was -49 BTC on the website
- In Feburary after buying bitcoins they were not credited. I talked to support via emall and they were credited. This happend another time but was also solved by support.
- One week ago I withdrew 53,99 BTC and they were not credited. Status "confirmed" but nothing in blockchain.

Ok. It looks like the mutliply bug was in effect since January and wasnt solved by code changes. I think they were hardcoding the balance changes directly in the mysql database. If this is the case TAiS46 has to deal with a fucked up and inconsitent database.
It is very hard to believe that no coins were lost.

So...Our funds are safe? Please convince me that they still are.

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April 16, 2013, 12:22:48 AM
 #193

The pastebin holds a lot of information!

5 million has been frozen in Poland.. but apparantly there is a back-up account which has about 2 million.

Also:

Quote
<TAiS46> Casimir1904 / all: if they really froze the bank account for 3 month! I will sell my private bitcoins for you money. I will think about, how I will handle it. maybe that the user can only exchange some % of their money to BTC … but i must also ask my lawyer what he says about this.

.. I think a lot of hysteric people misjudged this guy...



So does this mean that all Bitcoins will be safe and some % of money will be safe?

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April 16, 2013, 05:49:07 AM
 #194

The pastebin holds a lot of information!

5 million has been frozen in Poland.. but apparantly there is a back-up account which has about 2 million.

Also:

Quote
<TAiS46> Casimir1904 / all: if they really froze the bank account for 3 month! I will sell my private bitcoins for you money. I will think about, how I will handle it. maybe that the user can only exchange some % of their money to BTC … but i must also ask my lawyer what he says about this.

.. I think a lot of hysteric people misjudged this guy...



So does this mean that all Bitcoins will be safe and some % of money will be safe?

If I do simple math, the bitcoins are 100% safe while with Euro's you now have a ~50% guarantee dependant on how quickly the polish bank opens up.

While I'm still worried what course this polish bank affaire will go, he mentioned he can still withdraw USD's and polish money. If that really is the case, then I expect it to be cleared soon and no later than 3 months max. Which is a lot ofcourse, but I heard some guy mentioning 5-10 years.. which would be a horror scenario.

Anyhow, if the withdrawals for USD/PLN's are indeed succesfull, then I expect this to blow over very soon.
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April 16, 2013, 08:22:22 AM
 #195

HEY SIMON, IF YOU GIVE ACCESS TO MY 400 BITCOINS (AT TIME OF BLOCKING WORTH ALMOST 80 EURO) WHNE THEY ARE WORTH 40 EURO, YOU MIGHT ALSO JUST NOT GIVE THEM AT ALL. HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT, IF YOU GIVE THEM BACK WHEN THEY ARE WORTH NOTHING YOU CAN KEEP THEM FROM ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


MOTHERFUCKER!!!!!
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April 16, 2013, 09:02:51 AM
 #196

Does anybody, by chance, have the account data for the Polish bank account, maybe even for the German one?
Sending my lawyer after my 15000€.

The Bafin has nothing on bitcoin-24 and Simon.
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April 16, 2013, 09:03:54 AM
 #197

The Bafin has nothing on bitcoin-24 and Simon.

By this I mean that my lawyer inquired with BAFIN  and it turned up nothing.
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April 16, 2013, 09:34:37 AM
 #198

HEY SIMON, IF YOU GIVE ACCESS TO MY 400 BITCOINS (AT TIME OF BLOCKING WORTH ALMOST 80 EURO) WHNE THEY ARE WORTH 40 EURO, YOU MIGHT ALSO JUST NOT GIVE THEM AT ALL. HEY, YOU KNOW WHAT, IF YOU GIVE THEM BACK WHEN THEY ARE WORTH NOTHING YOU CAN KEEP THEM FROM ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


MOTHERFUCKER!!!!!

Can I have them then?

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April 16, 2013, 09:45:46 AM
 #199

Does anybody, by chance, have the account data for the Polish bank account, maybe even for the German one?



+1
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April 16, 2013, 10:00:10 AM
 #200

So does bitcoin-24.com still have problems? If yes, I will ask my customers to stay away from them.

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April 16, 2013, 10:02:27 AM
 #201

So does bitcoin-24.com still have problems? If yes, I will ask my customers to stay away from them.

Take a look https://bitcoin-24.com/

Coinsecure referral ID: https://coinsecure.in/signup/refamit (use this link to signup)
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April 16, 2013, 10:03:13 AM
 #202

UPDATE: Bitcoin24 users will most likely be able to withdraw BTC and $ tomorrow

http://pastebin.com/btZt178B

So can you explain how we go about withdrawing our BTC and cash? Site still says nothing..

Bitcoin = Gold on steroids
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April 16, 2013, 11:23:52 AM
 #203

UPDATE: Bitcoin24 users will most likely be able to withdraw BTC and $ tomorrow

http://pastebin.com/btZt178B

So can you explain how we go about withdrawing our BTC and cash? Site still says nothing..

This is worst experience I ever had online. This DJ sucks and fucks us all!
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April 16, 2013, 11:30:13 AM
 #204

Ohh... I'm very happy to withdraw my funds before ship happened  Cool
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April 16, 2013, 11:39:50 AM
 #205

Ohh... I'm very happy to withdraw my funds before ship happened  Cool

wait it gets even better.

"Q:Would it help if all users sent you "verification" material (ID, proff of residency, origin of moneu) ? A:I don't think that it would help and it has also not helped in the past".

Does anybody else feel things are not looking great with this site? I mean what could possibly go wrong, if you hand over 8 -10 millionen Euros to a 23 year DJ ?

"Q: A:i am trying really really everythiny to bet BTC24 online! i am traveling around the "world" to lawyer in poland, germany and clear all thinks. i am only at my mobile phone and trying to reach something"

the world? since when is Germany and poland the world? "Clear all things" .....lol
this better be typo or is he revealing his plans here?


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April 16, 2013, 11:42:30 AM
 #206

UPDATE: Bitcoin24 users will most likely be able to withdraw BTC and $ tomorrow

http://pastebin.com/btZt178B

So can you explain how we go about withdrawing our BTC and cash? Site still says nothing..

This is worst experience I ever had online. This DJ sucks and fucks us all!

It seems to me, we are the ones sucking him and getting fucked...
...I still wait and hope he can sort this out.

But there's one thing I really don't get, how can anyone deposit a large amount of money on a site without knowing anything about the man behind it? I lose money too, if he fucks up, but it was "gambling money", nothing that would hurt me. I would never get the idea of putting my savings there.
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April 16, 2013, 12:08:57 PM
 #207

think about this:
1. simon closes btc24 -> tell a good story
2. takes our bitcoins and sells them on other exchanges while the price is falling
3. waiting some days/weeks
4. buy back all those BTC for cheaper money
5. open btc24 again with all funds -> no harm to the users
6. profit!

could be. could be not...
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April 16, 2013, 12:32:53 PM
 #208

think about this:
1. simon closes btc24 -> tell a good story
2. takes our bitcoins and sells them on other exchanges while the price is falling
3. waiting some days/weeks
4. buy back all those BTC for cheaper money
5. open btc24 again with all funds -> no harm to the users
6. profit!

could be. could be not...

Sounds like the Masterplan!
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April 16, 2013, 12:44:15 PM
 #209

think about this:
1. simon closes btc24 -> tell a good story
2. takes our bitcoins and sells them on other exchanges while the price is falling
3. waiting some days/weeks
4. buy back all those BTC for cheaper money
5. open btc24 again with all funds -> no harm to the users
6. profit!
could be. could be not...

Sounds like crap!

You bet on a falling price, handling a volume of 10.000 BTC for that would mean 10.000 loss/profit each $/€ moved for example. Very very risky game, i would get him for suspicion of embezzlement if he'd do this!

Other point of view is, an eye is kept on all known wallets now. It will get someones attention sooner or later, and i think he is clever enough to know that!
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April 16, 2013, 02:57:17 PM
 #210

Careful everyone....You MAY be accused of spreading FUD.

There are two kinds of scammers. 

The intentional scammer, If I sold you stuff that I had no intention of sending you so that I could keep your money that would make me an intentional scammer.  I have no ASICs.  Who Wants to buy my ASICs?  (I take as much money as possible)

The Accidental Scammer.   I become a "bank" and offer to trade and invest while keeping your initial deposit safe.  I am balls-out stupid so I lose your cash and cannot repay or I am stuck, unable to conduct business legally but I have all this cash.  My intentions were good but I scammed you anyway due to my own clumsiness.

So I think Simon is falling into the accidental scammer category.  But he is not helping things by assuming an IRC log or Reddit offers any real explanation to people who have lost money (I am not one of them because I research the hell out of everyone).

Bitcoin may not be viewed as anything more than a "file" by law.  In the USA when the IRS seizes physical assets and someone claims those assets seized belonged to them and not the tax evader, then they have to produce a record that shows in some way that those assets belong to them.  So, those of you with BTC on bitcoin-24.com should start documenting a "digital trail" to the best of your ability to prove those electronic "files" belong to you and not the owner of the computer. (even then this might not work).  Also document the time and resources it took to aquire these "files" (BTC) because that might be your recompense if not the BTC themselves.

For cash, you might have it easier.  Prove it was your cash taken and they should have to return it to you.

In the US tracking assets is fairly easy because we don't have any of those privacy laws the EU and the UK have, so asset information can be found easily (like if someone claiming poverty just registered a new Mercedes) but I have no clue on the EU and how to track assets within those countries.

Good luck all and sorry you lost assets.

And Simon,  return as many BTC as possible before starting "2.0".  If you get into online financial trading again then hire someone to do the database for you who has experience in financials and can provide references that check out.

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April 16, 2013, 03:12:49 PM
 #211

Careful everyone....You MAY be accused of spreading FUD.

these were just some thoughts. i am not saying that this is the reality. just the way you can make some profit with falling prices and a lot of BTCs in your hand!

i do also think that simon is a good guy and wasnt prepared for this huge bitcoin "bubble"! i do also think that losing money is our (the users of bitcoin-24) fault! because we have sent huge amounts to an exchange knowing nearly nothing about the operator -> we have learnt nothing  Undecided
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April 16, 2013, 03:39:56 PM
 #212

The problem here is that Simon could easily have given our BTC back already.
Extremely easy to do. He says he's working on a withdrawal page.
If this is done within a few days, then we can be sure he didn't loose any BTC in the engine fuck ups. And pretty sure he didn't loose and fiat either.
But he hasn't done this withdrawal page yet, and it's been 5 days. So let's see until the end of the week.
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April 16, 2013, 03:45:33 PM
 #213

The problem here is that Simon could easily have given our BTC back already.
Extremely easy to do. He says he's working on a withdrawal page.
If this is done within a few days, then we can be sure he didn't loose any BTC in the engine fuck ups. And pretty sure he didn't loose and fiat either.
But he hasn't done this withdrawal page yet, and it's been 5 days. So let's see until the end of the week.

Since he is so good at setting up exchanges I bet his withdrawal page will be both timely and flawless.

BTC:  The fastest peer to peer value transfer the world has ever seen and he needs to set up a "withdrawal page"

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April 16, 2013, 04:03:57 PM
 #214

The problem here is that Simon could easily have given our BTC back already.
Extremely easy to do. He says he's working on a withdrawal page.
If this is done within a few days, then we can be sure he didn't loose any BTC in the engine fuck ups. And pretty sure he didn't loose and fiat either.
But he hasn't done this withdrawal page yet, and it's been 5 days. So let's see until the end of the week.

Since he is so good at setting up exchanges I bet his withdrawal page will be both timely and flawless.

BTC:  The fastest peer to peer value transfer the world has ever seen and he needs to set up a "withdrawal page"



We all know he's officially one of the worst developer in the world, so let's give him a few days for this task.

Another thing that worries me, is that he says he just hired some developer, and that the developer is doing all the database transactions fixing for him. Sounds like this "developer" has his hands on a lot of money right now with very little supervision. I wish somebody warns this Simon about such issues. I also hope people wil