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Author Topic: Problems with bitcoin-24.com WARNING! UPDATE!  (Read 38030 times)
andy-bc
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April 18, 2013, 11:42:55 AM
 #321

New update on https://bitcoin-24.com/. Anybody undestands German?

There is link to https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2329063/Beschluss%20Scan_geschwaerzt.pdf. It is notification from Polish bank from 9.4.2013 about account block.

My German is not adequate enough, but it is clear that the bank blocked Simon's account for 3 months on order of the Polish public prosecutor.
The prosecutor did this after receving information from the GIIF - General Inspector of the Financial Information (= main Polish AML authority).
The GIIF in turn acted upon documents from the German (Bremen) public prosecutor and the German police.


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memvola
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April 18, 2013, 12:12:52 PM
 #322

So, the problem isn't depositing of stolen funds by the clients, but the police claiming that he is stealing our funds?

This seems easier to resolve.
bitsandcoins
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April 18, 2013, 12:34:21 PM
 #323

It would be nice if Simon could come forward and give a timeframe and other details about the indicated rollback of faulty transactions.
If only the bank account is closed why are there no BTC payouts?

Does anybody have the BTC address of bitcoin-24's cold wallet?
michaelGedi
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April 18, 2013, 12:51:32 PM
 #324

CONTINUE DISCUSSION ON THE OTHER FORUM - WE NEED TO ALL STICK TOGETHER AND WORK AS A TEAM TO GET THIS SOLVED!

http://board.btc24-help.com/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=750d2bc83dccc8492e2b043f1614af7a


let's stop being so fucking spread out please...

TRADE FOREX, STOCKS AND COMMODITIES without the paperwork with Bitcoin: https://1broker.com/m/r.php?i=3589

1BROKER has been around since 2012 and is going strong
bitsandcoins
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April 18, 2013, 12:55:22 PM
 #325

CONTINUE DISCUSSION ON THE OTHER FORUM - WE NEED TO ALL STICK TOGETHER AND WORK AS A TEAM TO GET THIS SOLVED!

http://board.btc24-help.com/viewforum.php?f=3&sid=750d2bc83dccc8492e2b043f1614af7a


let's stop being so fucking spread out please...
subbed
donjoe
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April 18, 2013, 02:14:40 PM
 #326

Does anybody have the BTC address of bitcoin-24's cold wallet?
Yes, the wallets are listed in the dedicated forum as well: http://board.btc24-help.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4&sid=3e13d45566bfd58ce8e360c8fdd0b7d1
Newscastix
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April 18, 2013, 02:15:13 PM
 #327

CONTINUE DISCUSSION ON THE OTHER FORUM - WE NEED TO ALL STICK TOGETHER AND WORK AS A TEAM TO GET THIS SOLVED!

http://board.btc24-help.com/viewforum.php?f=3


let's stop being so fucking spread out please...

+1!!!
yucca
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April 18, 2013, 08:07:22 PM
 #328

Hmm, so then back when he created BTC24 and it was still a very small website with few subscribers it probably looked like a good idea to keep things simple and just use his personal account to keep the customers' money, but as things ramped up and the operation got much bigger it started to look very suspicious that he kept treating it like a personal account and making cash withdrawals from it whenever he wanted.

If I got things right. (I'm pretty sure he said something about some cash withdrawals which he felt completely entitled to.)

Just to set you straight here. Simon was perfectly entitled to those cash withdrawals, they were the % fees he charged for cash transfers. They are his only source of income related to btc24.

aby
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April 18, 2013, 08:32:48 PM
 #329

Hmm, so then back when he created BTC24 and it was still a very small website with few subscribers it probably looked like a good idea to keep things simple and just use his personal account to keep the customers' money, but as things ramped up and the operation got much bigger it started to look very suspicious that he kept treating it like a personal account and making cash withdrawals from it whenever he wanted.

If I got things right. (I'm pretty sure he said something about some cash withdrawals which he felt completely entitled to.)

Just to set you straight here. Simon was perfectly entitled to those cash withdrawals, they were the % fees he charged for cash transfers. They are his only source of income related to btc24.

Which makes me wonder, WHY does he withdraw it from his business account directly? Rather than transfering it to his private account and then withdrawing it.
First thing that comes to my mind is tax evasion? Otherwise it wouldn't make sense to me. Also.. does this mean that he has a pincard to withdraw cash from an account that has €5MIO+??
donjoe
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April 18, 2013, 09:25:54 PM
 #330

OK, the isht may have just hit the fan: the admin of btc24-help.com has filed a complaint with the German authorities against BTC24 Ltd. in the name of several customers, as if Simon was to blame for everything that happened, especially the blocking of all funds. I have serious doubts this was the right course of action at this point.

http://btc24-help.com/deutsch-anzeige-ist-raus/
lambo
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April 18, 2013, 10:11:39 PM
 #331

OK, the isht may have just hit the fan: the admin of btc24-help.com has filed a complaint with the German authorities against BTC24 Ltd. in the name of several customers, as if Simon was to blame for everything that happened, especially the blocking of all funds. I have serious doubts this was the right course of action at this point.

http://btc24-help.com/deutsch-anzeige-ist-raus/

thank god I had no money with them but I feel for anyone who did. I don't think its a scam, but its definitely a shitty situation
BitcoinFreak123
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April 18, 2013, 11:27:49 PM
 #332

OK, the isht may have just hit the fan: the admin of btc24-help.com has filed a complaint with the German authorities against BTC24 Ltd. in the name of several customers, as if Simon was to blame for everything that happened, especially the blocking of all funds. I have serious doubts this was the right course of action at this point.

http://btc24-help.com/deutsch-anzeige-ist-raus/

Anyone correct me if i'm wrong but i think donjoe mis-understood the whole thing. As i read the message i udnerstand a complaint was sent against the GERMAN POLICE, not against Simon.
I understood that the police froze the account because they thought Simon was a phisher, and i quote from btc24-help.com "We pointed out, that everyone sent money to Simon Hausdorf voluntarily."
So they made clear to the german autorities that WE and SIMON are the victims, making clear that Simon didn't phish anyone, and we all did it voluntary..

That's not a case agaist Simon....


Well that's what i understand of it.
donjoe
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April 18, 2013, 11:44:59 PM
 #333

Unless ThreeMan's English is horrible, I understood correctly that he always wanted to file a complaint against Simon's company and that's exactly what he did.

See the full text of the home page, where he talks about a class action lawsuit against Bitcoin-24 and not against the police: http://btc24-help.com
... and see this forum post about what he did today: http://board.btc24-help.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=52&sid=1b58d50ed7dcaaca4dc62df4b1f8616c#p338

Hell, I'm not even sure all the victims who sent him their information were fully aware what kind of complaint they were contributing to. Already some people have expressed disagreement with the way their information has been used, i.e. against Simon instead of the police or the Polish bank.
timbusan
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April 19, 2013, 01:34:34 AM
 #334

It appears a complaint was made to the police but it stated that the money involved was not phished and we are the legal owners of it.

One thing is clear; Simon has no hardware and is pretty much fucked at the moment. Those that have BTC, who knows what will happen. Do they police have any idea what BTC are? I doubt it. Those that have fiat; the money is safe - maybe too safe. The government will stew on this for a long time perhaps.
BitcoinFreak123
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April 19, 2013, 02:53:05 AM
 #335

It appears a complaint was made to the police but it stated that the money involved was not phished and we are the legal owners of it.

One thing is clear; Simon has no hardware and is pretty much fucked at the moment. Those that have BTC, who knows what will happen. Do they police have any idea what BTC are? I doubt it. Those that have fiat; the money is safe - maybe too safe. The government will stew on this for a long time perhaps.

Thats what i also thought, the the complaint was made to help simon, not to accuse him.

--------

Simon has no hardware??? What do you mean? Is this guy under arrest?

What a pr*ck seriously. "Will will have a withdrawal page TOMORROW" said 3 days ago. WHERE IS THAT DAMN WITHDRAWAL PAGE ?? Not a man of his words. I can totally understand it some people want to take it personally, including me.

I give him the options:
1) Tell us honestly he scammed us and we are fucked, then we know it for sure
2) Stick to his words and put up that withdrawal page..


But promising that withdrawal page, making false promises all the time, really makes him a dick. What an irony, he first said he didn't want to put a deadline because otherwise we would accuse him of not doing it. Well now that he was so sure of his deadline, where are the friggin deeds Huh

C'mon man .... What a BS. What is this guy thinking?

Maybe hes missing on a few K btc, and is secretly using our btc to sell at profit now that the time is rising, then he will buy cheap coins again, so he can re-fund anyone. And he's saying all this BS to stretch some time .... He hopes fixing everything and then appearing as he finally has his shit together, hoping that he wouldnt get any more negative publicity. But he doesn't realize he already made more than enough negative publicity that no one will ever trust his exchange..

SIMON, if you are reading this: IF YOU GIVE OUR (or at least my) BTC back within the next 24 hours, we will forgive you and not spread any negative message, and we will act as if you had your shit together !

bitbadger
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April 19, 2013, 03:05:15 AM
 #336

So, the problem isn't depositing of stolen funds by the clients, but the police claiming that he is stealing our funds?

This seems easier to resolve.
It won't be easy to resolve when people go submitting claims to the prosecutor or police that the operator has run off with our money. The server equipment will be held as evidence and not released. 

Which is what someone has done and what has now happened. It makes the whole thing harder to resolve.
 
timbusan
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April 19, 2013, 05:05:10 AM
 #337

Let me clarify; the claim on 'Bitcoin 24 help', as far as I can discern, is AGAINST Simon and Bitcoin-24.com but it does state that the money owed was given freely and was not phished.

Apparently on the 16th Simon's hardware was confiscated after somebody filed a complaint. This is what I can gather from the statements on his website. Although I dont speak German.
donjoe
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April 19, 2013, 05:09:47 AM
 #338

Simon has no hardware??? What do you mean? Is this guy under arrest?
No, but there was a search warrant issued for any hardware he may have used in the whole BTC operation (a copy of which is now published on bitcoin-24.com, BTW) and people just went on to assume 1. that it had already been executed and 2. that it involved seizing the machine formerly running the bitcoin-24.com trading engine and/or holding the BTC wallets, but I don't think there's any proof that these steps have been taken. The website itself has never been offline through all this AFAIK and obviously he still has control over what to publish on it, so at the very least his webhosting service has not been affected by the search warrant.
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April 19, 2013, 09:13:57 AM
 #339

What I understand from all these documents (I am German and sorry for my bad english):

1) Starting point is the Commerzbank in Bremen. They send a "warning" to the Staatsanwaltschaft(prosecutor) that Mr. H. draws money all days of the bitcoin-24 LTD account in cash and that this is probably the money of the clients.
Like also Mr. H. said in his declaration is that the Commerzbank was fully informed about the business of bitcoin-24.

Scenario: Mr. H. goes to the Commerzbank and draws cash from the account 50k €.... 2 days later 20k€....4 days later 35k €..... 2 days..


Doing this, you can get not only problems with the tax authorities, but also with the prosecutor cause of anti-terror, anti-mafia laws.



2) The Staatsanwaltschaft decided apparently:

probable:
   a) this 23 old dj-guy is not intelligent enough to deal with responsability
   b) maybe he is using client money for privat or he thinks this is correct or his money
   c) he is a prof. scammer
   d) maybe a+b+c together

a,b,c,d: we have to protect the clients!

less probable:
   e) he finances with that money some illegal business/terrorism
   f)  money laundering for some criminal organisation...

e,f: we have seen more intelligent guys, but can be!



ALARM!!!!! We have to act!


What will be the most effectiv way to secure also the money of the polish account??? If we tell them, that he is scamming his clients....this will take weeks. So we will go for terrorism and money laundering.



UPDATE!!!! Sondermeldung!

zwei Aktenzeichen(id-numbers for the case...so you have something for your lawers):
290 JS 47630/12 wegen Geldwäscheverdacht
241 Js 380/13 wegen Betrugsverdacht


 

Mit Narren sich beladen, Das kommt zuletzt dem Teufel selbst zu Schaden.
donjoe
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April 19, 2013, 10:30:14 AM
 #340

That's not all. According to a post in the btc24-help forum, this may have been a more serious matter than some simple suspicions: apparently Simon was in breach of European AML legislation by allowing anyone to trade large amounts of money on his website without having to provide any personal identification. When you think about it, an exchange like his could very well (have) be(en) used to launder money by some seriously bad people.
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